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Post by lumo on Jul 21, 2016 17:14:01 GMT
Okay, some background. Way back around Mar/Apr, DH noticed he'd been incorrectly paid a few hours of OT when he hadn't worked any. He let his supervisor know, and she said she'd correct it. Well, first she tried to blame him, saying he wasn't filling out his timecard correctly, which was not the case. It happened again; he reported it again. Supervisor said it would be fixed. We went on vacation, and honestly forgot about it. Fast forward to two weeks ago. His pay stub was not showing online -- unusual, but he figured it was just late. Turns out, he did not get paid at all for the pay period! Apparently, his sup never fixed anything, and he was continuing to get OT pay, a few hours a week. BUT, he went back and checked all pay stubs, and there had also been ADJUSTMENTS each check as well. So the company was basically saying that essentially, he got overpaid 80 hrs worth, which makes no sense. They didn't provide a pay stub for last week so we have no reference point for the math that they did. He'd been in communication with payroll, who'd told him he could expect another adjustment of about $120 on this week's check. We were still feeling kind of bamboozled, but were like, okay, we can make that with. Today, he found out from payroll that he's not getting paid again tomorrow. What. the. Actual. fuck. Still no pay stub, so we have no way to reconcile this. Aside from the obvious lack of money, we're also concerned that our health insurance isn't being paid. We can't go without this What recourse, if any, do we have? This is not a fly-by-night company...this is a huge, Fortune 100 company. He's worked there 10 years. We are at a loss. Do we consult a lawyer? Thanks if you read this far. ETA: He has contacted the company's ombudsman and is waiting to hear back from him. Also? On top of all this shit, my debit card was hacked earlier this week. So, yeah.  ETA 2: I changed the Fortune number above. They've fallen a bit since I worked there. Still no excuse.  --------------------------------- Update 8/4 "This is the song that never ends/It just goes on and on, my friends..." We are now at the 3rd pay period (6th week) of dealing with this mess and frankly, there's no end in sight. We received the paper check as promised to us last time. No deductions were taken aside from taxes and the $120 that we were initially told would be deducted from this check. So that was okay. Meanwhile DH's sup was working to find out what caused the whole problem with the mystery overtime to start with. Then we get to Wednesday (yesterday). DH's sup had texted him the night before letting him know she had good news for him about his check this week, and she wanted to go over it with him first thing tomorrow. Of course we were excited as we thought everything was sorted out finally and he'd be back to a regular check on Friday. He talked to his sup Wednesday. She told him that payroll was trying to deduct ANOTHER 20 hours with no kind of notice (  ) -- however, she advocated for him and like "No, this needs to stop, you have to pay him!" So she got the 20 hours put back on the check -- yay! Then, not less than 30 minutes later, DH comes out of his office to tell me that sup just found out they're going to be taking 3 pay-periods-worth of insurance premiums out of this check.  That winds up being more money than the fucking 20 hours! Don't get me wrong -- I HAVE NO PROBLEM PAYING FOR OUR INSURANCE. What I Have a problem with is 1)them taking it all at once instead of offering to spread it out over a few checks, and 2) GIVING US NO FUCKING NOTICE. If DH's sup hadn't gone back to payroll one last time just to be safe, we would have found out when we saw the deposit on Friday. We are both beyond livid at this point. We've been told repeatedly that this has been resolved and it continues to not be. No one still knows what caused the OT pay, and we still haven't gotten a fucking pay stub for the original non-paid check. DH has again emailed the SR VP of HR -- no speedy response this time though. He also now has a call in to the Dept of Labor. And he is looking for a new job. ----------------------- Update 8/5 Y'all are not going to BELIEVE this shit. So when DH's sup got the 20 hours added back for this week, they had to cut a poster check for it because payroll was already in process for this week's deposits. They overnighted the check; it got here just a bit ago. They did pay him for the 20 hours. THEY PAID HIM AT TIME AND A HALF.   Unbefuckinglievable. Honestly, I almost just think they're just doing it to mess with our heads now. Because no company can be this insane, right?? |
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 21, 2016 17:17:47 GMT
Oh yeah lawyer now. Wth?
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Post by bigbundt on Jul 21, 2016 17:19:07 GMT
If they won't work with you and answer your questions and give you documentation showing exactly what they are doing, file a complaint with your state's department of labor. Feel free to throw that nugget at the payroll department to see if that lights a fire under their butts.
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Deleted
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May 6, 2024 6:58:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 17:24:58 GMT
If it's a large company, before I'd get an attorney, I'd stop dealing with his supervisor and payroll and I'd email the executive in charge of HR. They ARE going to care about this - particularly the lack of communication and ongoing errors - because they know it opens them up to liability. Chances are excellent they will see to it that it's corrected fully and you are provided a complete accounting very quickly.
If that doesn't work, then escalate to an attorney or the department of labor, but I'd try to get it corrected internally first because once an attorney is involved, everything will slow WAY down.
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Post by blondiec47 on Jul 21, 2016 17:28:51 GMT
I do payroll for our company and this would never fly. Is the company a public company?? If so, there are many rules regarding paper trails and documentation. I could never not pay someone and then not provide documentation on why. In fact the employee would need to be notified first and pay back arrangements made and everything would be in writing and in their employee file.
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Post by redrulz on Jul 21, 2016 17:34:52 GMT
I would start first with HR. The company may not have paid him, but he should still be issued a pay stub for the hours worked. That way you could see if your health care was taken out before they "adjusted" his pay. And, they should be able to better explain what the hell is going on.
Then, if you don't get answers that make sense, try the Labor Board or an attorney.
Good luck. That sounds like a super stressful situation! I hope it gets worked out quickly!
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 21, 2016 17:51:32 GMT
I know if we get overpaid, they will take it out if following paychacks, but the one person I know who had it happen, they spread it out over a year or something so she only lost 100 per paycheck.
Did he speak to the supervisor in person or did he email the earlier mistakes?
What adjustments happened?
Does the overtime pay equal what was not paid?
No matter whether they took some for backpayment or not, there should be a pays tub given so that both of you came keep records.
He should start with the head of payroll, them head of hr, finally a lawyer if needed.
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Post by beanbuddymom on Jul 21, 2016 17:56:09 GMT
That sucks big time. I wish you luck - I worked in benefits for an insurance company at one point and had daily contact with payroll and there is no way I could let a day go by without finding out why this is happening, expect a clear delineation of all of the figures and documentation of all of the paystubs. As far as not getting a check in the planned uploads for tomorrow, I hope they can expedite you a check and confirm that your insurance is in fact being paid so there is no lapse. I wish you and DH luck but I hope that he gets an answer TODAY.
I would also confirm that insurance was paid by the company and confirm it with your insurance company as well. It sounds like his supervisor messed up and now they don't want to give you paperwork to show it, but I would expect an answer TODAY.
Good luck again, hope the omnubusman is prompt and helpful.
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basketdiva
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Post by basketdiva on Jul 21, 2016 18:52:37 GMT
Personally I would be sitting in payroll or HR until I got answers (unless there is no local staffer). If talking to someone in person is not feasible, then stay on the phone until you get answers.
Paystubs are a requirement-even if the amount is $0.00. I worked for a small company and if a situation arose where money had to be deducted ( payroll advance), the employee still got a stub showing all activity.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 21, 2016 19:41:15 GMT
I agree to include the ombudsman and also the payroll manager and/or the HR or Finance person over that payroll manager.
They need to show your DH the breakdown of all the overpayments and deductions. One thing I do know that can happen in some payroll systems is that if you make an adjustment one time in the payroll system and don't go back and change it back - it will keep recurring until its changed. Not saying that happened - but I have seen it happen!
Also, I would also be concerned about your medical deductions. Not concerned about you losing coverage - but our payroll system is set up so if your payroll does not deduct one pay period, it will double deduct the next time until all deductions are caught up. He could possibly get double or triple deducted next time he gets paid, which will also be ugly when you see the net amount.
He really needs to escalate it up the food chain.
So sorry this happened and hope you can get it resolved quickly!
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Post by katlady on Jul 21, 2016 19:49:16 GMT
This is a Fortune 20 company, don't they have the paystubs online? Can he check on the Company's internal website his pay history? What a mess! I hope it gets straightened out quickly!
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basketdiva
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Post by basketdiva on Jul 21, 2016 20:00:42 GMT
OP said the paystub was not showing online.
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Post by mom on Jul 21, 2016 20:03:26 GMT
OK, I would not tell them I am hiring an attorney - or even threaten it. Once they hear that, they will not talk with you without their counsel present. Save that for a lot resort.
Was all the communication about extra hours in an email or in person? Print out any documentation you have,
Go see HR and bring your Union rep if you have one. I would not deal with payroll anymore - move it up the food chain.
There is a paper trail - make them show it to you. Get printouts or copies for your own records.
I feel like once you move it up the chain you will get results. They don't want the labor board involved.
As always, document, document, document.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 21, 2016 20:10:51 GMT
Can he go to payroll in person or is it housed separately?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 20:48:53 GMT
Agree with going to the highest step of Payroll/HR. It is very possible someone at the bottom is trying to cover their mistake for fear of losing their job or consequences.
I would also suggest your DH create spreadsheet that lists pay periods since say 1/1/16 and write down the pay period dates, the check date, how many hours were paid regular and overtime, the gross wages for those hours and then any taxes and deductions. If he is salaried these should stay pretty consistent but it sounds as if he is hourly with overtime. Then on the pay periods he was Overpaid, he needs to know how many hours both regular and overtime that was and calculate gross overpayment.
Then the pay periods he wasn't paid at all, he needs to add in the gross wages he should have been paid. And see what kind of difference he comes to. I agree that overpayment of a few hours a paycheck of OT wouldn't ever add up to not getting a future paycheck unless it has gone on for a long time (4 months biweekly pay would only mean 16 weeks where he possible got a few extra hours of OT ...let's say 2 per week which would equal 3 regular hours....16 weeks x 3 hours would only equal 48 -- maybe one weeks pay but not much more than that!)
eta: is it possible the extra overtime has been happening prior to March/April such that the amount owed back would be much bigger.
What state are you in? In some states the employer may not be able to recover the overage or need him to sign a voluntary deduction authorization. You might consider calling the state wage claim board before calling a lawyer. I think you will get further if they think the state is going to come in and do a full wage audit....an attorney really can't make that happen. |
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Post by kamper on Jul 21, 2016 21:13:40 GMT
My DH works for a big company and payroll is farmed out. There is not payroll office (or HR for that matter) to visit. I don't understand why there are no paychecks posted or even how he got paid for OT he didn't submit. Doesn't his supervisor have to approve his time cards?
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 21, 2016 21:24:29 GMT
What I don't understand is why you kept the money? I have been over paid. I refused to cash the check and made them make it right.
That's where my confusion lies. Same with people with similar stories. Why on earth would you take the money to begin with? And say its direct deposit...move it out of your account and figure out how to return it to the company. It's not your money.
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Post by cade387 on Jul 21, 2016 23:08:48 GMT
What I don't understand is why you kept the money? I have been over paid. I refused to cash the check and made them make it right. That's where my confusion lies. Same with people with similar stories. Why on earth would you take the money to begin with? And say its direct deposit...move it out of your account and figure out how to return it to the company. It's not your money. How the heck would you return money to a company? That is not reasonable for a large company with direct deposit. |
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Post by lumo on Jul 21, 2016 23:11:49 GMT
If they won't work with you and answer your questions and give you documentation showing exactly what they are doing, file a complaint with your state's department of labor. Feel free to throw that nugget at the payroll department to see if that lights a fire under their butts. If it's a large company, before I'd get an attorney, I'd stop dealing with his supervisor and payroll and I'd email the executive in charge of HR. They ARE going to care about this - particularly the lack of communication and ongoing errors - because they know it opens them up to liability. Chances are excellent they will see to it that it's corrected fully and you are provided a complete accounting very quickly. If that doesn't work, then escalate to an attorney or the department of labor, but I'd try to get it corrected internally first because once an attorney is involved, everything will slow WAY down. I would start first with HR. The company may not have paid him, but he should still be issued a pay stub for the hours worked. That way you could see if your health care was taken out before they "adjusted" his pay. And, they should be able to better explain what the hell is going on. Then, if you don't get answers that make sense, try the Labor Board or an attorney. Good luck. That sounds like a super stressful situation! I hope it gets worked out quickly! Thanks for these suggestions. DH did just this -- emailed the head of HR at corporate HQ, explained the situation, and mentioned the labor board. He had a response w/in 2 hours that the HR exec's staff was "on it" to reach an agreeable solution -- not what we expected at all! DH's sup (who is NOT the same sup that dropped the ball initially) called him before the close of the business day to let him know they are cutting a paper check for the amount he was originally told he'd be paid tomorrow, and we should have it on Saturday. So thank you (and others who suggested the same). To answer a few more questions... Is the company a public company?? If so, there are many rules regarding paper trails and documentation. I could never not pay someone and then not provide documentation on why. In fact the employee would need to be notified first and pay back arrangements made and everything would be in writing and in their employee file. Yes, publicly traded. Nearly 50K employees. Personally I would be sitting in payroll or HR until I got answers (unless there is no local staffer). If talking to someone in person is not feasible, then stay on the phone until you get answers. Paystubs are a requirement-even if the amount is $0.00. I worked for a small company and if a situation arose where money had to be deducted ( payroll advance), the employee still got a stub showing all activity. Can he go to payroll in person or is it housed separately? He works remotely -- the office local to us closed operations about 6 years ago, and employees were allowed to either relocate to a different center, or work remotely. Although he's getting a check for this week, we still don't have clarification yet as to when we can expect a pay stub for last pay period. Also, I would also be concerned about your medical deductions. Not concerned about you losing coverage - but our payroll system is set up so if your payroll does not deduct one pay period, it will double deduct the next time until all deductions are caught up. He could possibly get double or triple deducted next time he gets paid, which will also be ugly when you see the net amount Yes, this is also something we're still trying to get clarification about as well. He did contact our insurance company who verified that we were still covered. I would also suggest your DH create spreadsheet that lists pay periods since say 1/1/16 and write down the pay period dates, the check date, how many hours were paid regular and overtime, the gross wages for those hours and then any taxes and deductions. If he is salaried these should stay pretty consistent but it sounds as if he is hourly with overtime. Then on the pay periods he was Overpaid, he needs to know how many hours both regular and overtime that was and calculate gross overpayment. Then the pay periods he wasn't paid at all, he needs to add in the gross wages he should have been paid. And see what kind of difference he comes to. I agree that overpayment of a few hours a paycheck of OT wouldn't ever add up to not getting a future paycheck unless it has gone on for a long time (4 months biweekly pay would only mean 16 weeks where he possible got a few extra hours of OT ...let's say 2 per week which would equal 3 regular hours....16 weeks x 3 hours would only equal 48 -- maybe one weeks pay but not much more than that!) [/p]
eta: is it possible the extra overtime has been happening prior to March/April such that the amount owed back would be much bigger.
What state are you in? In some states the employer may not be able to recover the overage or need him to sign a voluntary deduction authorization. You might consider calling the state wage claim board before calling a lawyer. I think you will get further if they think the state is going to come in and do a full wage audit....an attorney really can't make that happen. [/quote] We did do this, but it's tough to suss out because he DID have some actual legitimate OT that he worked as well, which makes things even messier. As best we could figure, it should have been about a check's worth. We have no problem giving the funds back -- we're not trying to run a scam or anything. I think it's just the fact that he was given no warning, nor was any option offered to have the adjustments done over time. And it didn't happen just once, but twice, with the second time being after someone above his payroll contact had told him that would NOT be the case. My DH works for a big company and payroll is farmed out. There is not payroll office (or HR for that matter) to visit. I don't understand why there are no paychecks posted or even how he got paid for OT he didn't submit. Doesn't his supervisor have to approve his time cards? The sup he was with at the time was...less than good. She did have to approve the timecards, yes. We have no idea how the error happened from our end of things. What I don't understand is why you kept the money? I have been over paid. I refused to cash the check and made them make it right. That's where my confusion lies. Same with people with similar stories. Why on earth would you take the money to begin with? And say its direct deposit...move it out of your account and figure out how to return it to the company. It's not your money. We are in NC. The company is HQed in NYC. It's not as if we could have just written a check from our own account and mailed it in or driven it by the office. When DH contacted his sup on 2 different occasions, and was told it was being taken care of, we took that at face value -- that was, in essence, us attempting to return the money by saying "Hey, this is wrong, can you fix it?" It's not terribly unusual to see minor adjustments every now and again, and he took what is the standard course of action in getting it fixed. However, his sup dropped the ball, and since the amounts he was getting paid were pretty much on point with what he would have received normally, due to the adjustments that were being done each week after the first couple of screw-ups, we assumed (wrongly) that it was done. He doesn't necessarily check his pay stub online each week -- well, he does now, clearly. Anyhow, hopefully the check will be in the mail, as they say, and this matter will be put to rest. And hopefully his current sup is more on top of any issues that might arise. Thanks again for all the advice. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 23:12:03 GMT
What I don't understand is why you kept the money? I have been over paid. I refused to cash the check and made them make it right. That's where my confusion lies. Same with people with similar stories. Why on earth would you take the money to begin with? And say its direct deposit...move it out of your account and figure out how to return it to the company. It's not your money. How the heck would you return money to a company? That is not reasonable for a large company with direct deposit. Especially since the funds are being transmitted electronically. There's often no one to write a check out to pay the money back either. It has to go out the same way it came in. What a sucky situation  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 23:21:50 GMT
Glad they are working on it. I would always suggest that if the first line supervisor doesn't seem to get something corrected always go to HR/Payroll even if you work remotely. Honestly I tell all 120 of our employees that if there is a problem on their timeclock or paycheck to come to me directly. In a company that big, there will be quite a large HR/payroll department!
And yes, there are some payroll systems (like the one we use) that keeps the last paycheck's information in the employee's record and presupposes the same hours and deductions. So it would be very easy for it to happen twice if someone weren't paying attention.
I always suggest if you are hourly that you keep a small notebook that records your hours worked. Timeclock systems will have problems as will payroll systems (much like this). Yes, whoever was solving the initial problem should have corrected it and contacted your DH just for clarification. But now it is hard to know where the mistake was made. Hopefully they can track it down and glad DH is getting a paycheck.
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Post by beanbuddymom on Jul 21, 2016 23:24:35 GMT
I'm so glad they are cutting you a check and sounds like getting the ball rolling to fix this. Yay!  |
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 21, 2016 23:45:06 GMT
So did you keep the money then and set it aside? If you did then the money should be no issue if they aren't paying him.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 21, 2016 23:55:42 GMT
What I don't understand is why you kept the money? I have been over paid. I refused to cash the check and made them make it right. That's where my confusion lies. Same with people with similar stories. Why on earth would you take the money to begin with? And say its direct deposit...move it out of your account and figure out how to return it to the company. It's not your money. How the heck would you return money to a company? That is not reasonable for a large company with direct deposit. As I said then why wouldn't you set it aside. Obviously they rent just going to say "oops our bad! Just keep it". |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 22, 2016 0:17:09 GMT
How the heck would you return money to a company? That is not reasonable for a large company with direct deposit. As I said then why wouldn't you set it aside. Obviously they rent just going to say "oops our bad! Just keep it". You cannot possibly this obtuse--ITS BEEN PAID BACK!!! The company did a deduction. in a company that large, it's not an issue of "set it aside and send them a check pay it back". The NORM would be payroll deductions against future earnings. The OP's issue isn't paying it back, it's that it kept/keeps happening and then no stub/accounting for the payback--and then no check. Sheesh. You sound like you're trying to make her out as the ignorant slacker here. |
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 22, 2016 0:51:03 GMT
As I said then why wouldn't you set it aside. Obviously they rent just going to say "oops our bad! Just keep it". You cannot possibly this obtuse--ITS BEEN PAID BACK!!! The company did a deduction. in a company that large, it's not an issue of "set it aside and send them a check pay it back". The NORM would be payroll deductions against future earnings. The OP's issue isn't paying it back, it's that it kept/keeps happening and then no stub/accounting for the payback--and then no check. Sheesh. You sound like you're trying to make her out as the ignorant slacker here. Chill out. I missed something or didn't understand. I'm not being obtuse. You can take it down about 10 notches now. It's all good. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 22, 2016 1:05:22 GMT
You cannot possibly this obtuse--ITS BEEN PAID BACK!!! The company did a deduction. in a company that large, it's not an issue of "set it aside and send them a check pay it back". The NORM would be payroll deductions against future earnings. The OP's issue isn't paying it back, it's that it kept/keeps happening and then no stub/accounting for the payback--and then no check. Sheesh. You sound like you're trying to make her out as the ignorant slacker here. Chill out. I missed something or didn't understand. I'm not being obtuse. You can take it down about 10 notches now. It's all good. I wasn't up notches. Lol-given that the OP was pretty clear in what she laid out, I asked about being obtuse because it was right there and you kept stating the same thing! |
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Post by redrulz on Jul 22, 2016 1:42:20 GMT
I'm so glad that you were able to get some answers so quickly and they are going to cut him a check!  |
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jp1989
Junior Member
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Post by jp1989 on Jul 22, 2016 16:43:04 GMT
I agree, start with HR. Then move up the ladder accordingly.
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Post by lumo on Aug 4, 2016 19:40:48 GMT
BTT for update
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