flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Apr 25, 2017 4:23:44 GMT
Wholewheat crackers I fit several of those!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 12, 2024 7:13:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 7:02:42 GMT
Gia-you "yelling" and making your font big does not make you right. It makes you desperate. You do what you have to do when no one is listening. It's not that people aren't listening it's that you are not making your case.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Apr 25, 2017 10:23:28 GMT
Dead weight. Traitors. Leeches. Subservient. Communists. Fascists. Irresponsible. Lazy. Whiners. Stupid. Freeloaders. Drains on society. Greedy. Thieves. Selfish, virtue-less and immoral. Extremists. Nazis. Harpies. Don't forget "elitist." Used as a pejorative, of course. Used to drive me crazy here. And clearly, all the people who were suddenly leveling the "accusation" were not thinking it up on their own. It had become a trope encouraged in right wing media - an insult to fling haphazardly without regard to the meaning of the word or its relevance. So THIS jumped out at me a few days ago in a CNN opinion piece about how Bill O'Reilly was instrumental in the Fox News reshaping of American conservatism (although I would argue that Rush Limbaugh, who can't get through a sentence without some form of the word "elitism, is just as complicit): So that's my answer, @devildog : Countless times, I had seen "elitist" flung at liberals indiscriminately here as a group insult, and I'd also seen it used personally as a way to denigrate a poster who had extensive knowledge about a subject - knowledge she used to buttress an opinion with which the accuser disagreed.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Apr 25, 2017 10:28:37 GMT
^And because I can never leave a topic alone.... --------------------------------
Related tangent: I noticed, in a thread about the science marches, someone posted that a scientist spoke to the crowd about how scientists should work to NOT to be perceived as elitists. Populist scientists? OKay, I see some appeal, e.g. Bill Nye. But academic researchers who barely come up for air should be worrying about this?
It disturbed me that the best and brightest are being encouraged to dim their own light just because a segment of the population has politicized science...and because a buzz word has lost all meaning and nuance...and because we have become a country known for its pride in our anti-intellectualism.
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Post by Merge on Apr 25, 2017 10:39:05 GMT
^And because I can never leave a topic alone.... -------------------------------- Related tangent: I noticed, in a thread about the science marches, someone posted that a scientist spoke to the crowd about how scientists should work to NOT to be perceived as elitists. Populist scientists? OKay, I see some appeal, e.g. Bill Nye. But academic researchers who barely come up for air should be worrying about this? It disturbed me that the best and brightest are being encouraged to dim their own light just because a segment of the population has politicized science...and because a buzz word has lost all meaning. This goes back to the demonization of knowledge on the right that I mentioned on a thread a while ago. Highly educated = elitist, and we can't have that. If you are knowledgeable about something, you have to hide it, lest you be considered elitist. It's why they don't care that Trump shows his ignorance so often. At least he's not one of those highly educated elitists parading his knowledge all over the place!
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Apr 25, 2017 10:49:53 GMT
Highly educated = elitist, and we can't have that. If you are knowledgeable about something, you have to hide it, lest you be considered elitist. As Josiah Bartlet, my favorite fictional president and Nobel Prize winner in economics, once said: " If you're going to be 'the education president,' it'd be nice not to have to hide the fact that you have an education."
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 25, 2017 11:11:17 GMT
I used to get so tired of being told that I was "drinking the Kool-Aid." That I could not possibly have an intelligent opinion of my own – that I was just drinking the Kool-Aid…
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Post by uksue on Apr 25, 2017 11:27:57 GMT
Aside from the very personal slanging match going on here, to me Trump speaks like someone without empathy and without thinking . I'm comparing him to my son on the Autism spectrum - frequently he comes out with a steam of words that he has given little or no thought to how they sound or what effect they may have on the listener .
He doesn't jump around subjects in the way Trump does however, he tends to be very detail oriented .
That interview was bonkers. I've never heard such a rambling, childishly worded interview from a World leader. I can hardly imagine what it was Iike for our very straight-laced, proper Prime Minister when she met him!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 12, 2024 7:13:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 11:28:38 GMT
The Peas collective ability to mud-sling and name-call predates the past two presidents and criss-crosses the aisle. The Clinton years. The Bush years. And the names (sometimes two sides of the same coin) remain the same, it's just the ones using them that differ. None of this is right, good, or helpful, but it's how US politics around here have always been.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 25, 2017 12:20:17 GMT
This goes back to the demonization of knowledge on the right that I mentioned on a thread a while ago. Highly educated = elitist, and we can't have that. If you are knowledgeable about something, you have to hide it, lest you be considered elitist. It's why they don't care that Trump shows his ignorance so often. At least he's not one of those highly educated elitists parading his knowledge all over the place! I'm proud to say that I'm an elitist in this sense. I'm educated and I worked hard to become so. I'm not sure why someone who works with their body/hands is considered a "hard worker who does an honest day's work" but someone who works equally hard with their brains is not. I don't look down upon people who do these jobs, but perhaps they should have some respect for those who work with their brains as well. Smart people make things better. Smart people find better ways of doing things. I want smart people to be in charge of things, because they will base decisions upon facts and data and experience and knowledge. And I would prefer that the smart people in charge get to be in charge of things within their area of expertise, because that's a logical, smart way of doing things. When a dictator or totalitarian regime comes to power, one of the first moves is to get rid of the smart people, along with the artists and the clergy. Why? Because these people can become leaders. Because smart people think critically. Smart people will use their brains to resist the takeover. This has happened time and time again. Who remembers this, and will sound the alarm when they see it happening today? Smart people who have read books about history and who are able to think critically about it. My job as an "elitist educated person" is to teach young people to also become elitist educated people. I'm sure I won't be 100% successful, but if even 70% of my students go on to become smart people, I'll feel quite good about my life's work. Smart people are good for America, even if some don't feel that way. When someone mocks and ridicules smart people, you should ask yourself why - why is this person pandering to stupid people? Why is this person scared of smart people? The answer is usually not one that is beneficial to the people he's pandering to or the country as a whole. Save
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 25, 2017 14:10:53 GMT
This goes back to the demonization of knowledge on the right that I mentioned on a thread a while ago. Highly educated = elitist, and we can't have that. If you are knowledgeable about something, you have to hide it, lest you be considered elitist. It's why they don't care that Trump shows his ignorance so often. At least he's not one of those highly educated elitists parading his knowledge all over the place! I'm proud to say that I'm an elitist in this sense. I'm educated and I worked hard to become so. I'm not sure why someone who works with their body/hands is considered a "hard worker who does an honest day's work" but someone who works equally hard with their brains is not. I don't look down upon people who do these jobs, but perhaps they should have some respect for those who work with their brains as well. Smart people make things better. Smart people find better ways of doing things. I want smart people to be in charge of things, because they will base decisions upon facts and data and experience and knowledge. And I would prefer that the smart people in charge get to be in charge of things within their area of expertise, because that's a logical, smart way of doing things. When a dictator or totalitarian regime comes to power, one of the first moves is to get rid of the smart people, along with the artists and the clergy. Why? Because these people can become leaders. Because smart people think critically. Smart people will use their brains to resist the takeover. This has happened time and time again. Who remembers this, and will sound the alarm when they see it happening today? Smart people who have read books about history and who are able to think critically about it. My job as an "elitist educated person" is to teach young people to also become elitist educated people. I'm sure I won't be 100% successful, but if even 70% of my students go on to become smart people, I'll feel quite good about my life's work. Smart people are good for America, even if some don't feel that way. When someone mocks and ridicules smart people, you should ask yourself why - why is this person pandering to stupid people? Why is this person scared of smart people? The answer is usually not one that is beneficial to the people he's pandering to or the country as a whole. SaveYou.are.awesome! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
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Post by sudie on Apr 25, 2017 14:15:40 GMT
After constantly being told they're wrong about EVERYTHING and terrible people for not having the correct opinion, I can't believe anyone still thinks any Trump supporters still participate here. Or that anyone still thinks anything Trump supporters say will be acknowledged as anything but wrong. Liberal, Obama supporting Peas sat through 8 years of ridiculous, hateful rhetoric from the right. The President and his family were criticized non-stop. Funny thing is, I don't remember any hairflips or dramatic exits. I don't remember any liberal Pea crying about how she couldn't share her opinion or how "hostile" the other side was. I wonder who the snowflakes really are here.
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Post by peasapie on Apr 25, 2017 14:43:01 GMT
Highly educated = elitist, and we can't have that. If you are knowledgeable about something, you have to hide it, lest you be considered elitist. As Josiah Bartlet, my favorite fictional president and Nobel Prize winner in economics, once said: " If you're going to be 'the education president,' it'd be nice not to have to hide the fact that you have an education."Ugh. These are both so true. And sad.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 25, 2017 14:46:47 GMT
The Peas collective ability to mud-sling and name-call predates the past two presidents and criss-crosses the aisle. The Clinton years. The Bush years. And the names (sometimes two sides of the same coin) remain the same, it's just the ones using them that differ. None of this is right, good, or helpful, but it's how US politics around here have always been. It seems so much more accelerated this round.
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Post by peasapie on Apr 25, 2017 14:47:37 GMT
I've said this before. He absolutely is in the early stages of dementia. You can see it in his eyes and his speech patterns. If you see videos of him when he was younger the difference in his speech and eyes is very obvious. I said the same thing about Reagan in his last term and was harshly chastised for daring to say that but it was true. You mark my word trump has dementia. Several of my friends have been saying this and the AP interview transcript seems to make it pretty clear. I definitely feel he has many signs of dementia. His family will cover as long as they can, but he is in wayyy over his head.
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Post by thundergal on Apr 25, 2017 15:11:17 GMT
Let's say it is determined within the next year or so that he has dementia. Does anyone want to speculate about what that would mean for the GOP? There don't seem to be any consequences now for their support of him. Would there be any then? If it turns out they've been supporting someone who is significantly ill/impaired? Does the 2020 election turn in to a Democrat vs. the-party-who-elected-and-supported-a-man-with-dementia argument? Or does it even show up on the radar?
I just don't understand how serious politicians can look at this AP interview and think all is well with this man. But I imagine they would get away with, "Well golly gee whiz, we had no idea he was impaired in any way".
I know...I'm getting way WAY out ahead. Feel free to ignore my ramblings!
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Apr 25, 2017 15:56:26 GMT
Several of my friends have been saying this and the AP interview transcript seems to make it pretty clear. I definitely feel he has many signs of dementia. His family will cover as long as they can, but he is in wayyy over his head. I have wondered to myself on more than once occasion why he has felt the need (or someone else felt the need and made it happen for him) to have Jared and Invanka so intimately involved in his Presidency to need to be in key roles in the West Wing. Not saying the guy does or does not have dementia, because I can no longer force myself to watch him or try to decipher his transcripts- so I don't feel like I have the knowledge base to draw that conclusion or form a definitive opinion (but then again Hillary did buckle her knees when she was confirmed to be ill... so she clearly had Parkinson's. So maybe I do have more than enough info to make a diagnosis ). But more food for thought I suppose.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 25, 2017 16:01:46 GMT
why he has felt the need (or someone else felt the need and made it happen for him) to have Jared and Invanka so intimately involved in his Presidency to need to be in key roles in the West Wing. I always thought it was because he really didn't want to be President-- oh, not the adulation part, he LVOES that part, but doing the actual 'work' part-- if he can get away with delegating the actual 'thinking' to someone else and they just tell him what to think / do, that seems like the kind of thing he would do, to me. But reading more of his word salads, it looks like they COULD be there as much to cover up for him as doing the work.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Apr 25, 2017 16:02:37 GMT
I was thinking about AmeliaBloomer 's post above and realized how much the face and image of each party varies geographically. Where I live Democrat doesn't at all equate with Hollywood and being elitist. To the contrary, here Democrats tend to be pretty strongly categorized as poor, ignorant, and relying on government services. People who vote the party that will continue to provide them with their checks. Republican is identified as the wealthy and those who believe they should be wealthy but just inconveniently aren't at the moment. Now granted that leaves the middle class decidedly up for grabs, but those are the most common partisan stereotypes around here.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Apr 25, 2017 16:06:27 GMT
why he has felt the need (or someone else felt the need and made it happen for him) to have Jared and Invanka so intimately involved in his Presidency to need to be in key roles in the West Wing. I always thought it was because he really didn't want to be President-- oh, not the adulation part, he LVOES that part, but doing the actual 'work' part-- if he can get away with delegating the actual 'thinking' to someone else and they just tell him what to think / do, that seems like the kind of thing he would do, to me. But reading more of his word salads, it looks like they COULD be there as much to cover up for him as doing the work. Yep, I am right there with you. I just kind of figured Jared was there to be his minion and do the day in and day out work for him. Someone who knew him well enough to make decisions for him and someone he could trust to do the job without writing a tell all book a few years down the road. But when Ivanka's role changed from quasi-FLOTUS to a west winger, it made me wonder of there wasn't something more to it.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 25, 2017 16:15:30 GMT
I always thought it was because he really didn't want to be President-- oh, not the adulation part, he LVOES that part, but doing the actual 'work' part-- if he can get away with delegating the actual 'thinking' to someone else and they just tell him what to think / do, that seems like the kind of thing he would do, to me. But reading more of his word salads, it looks like they COULD be there as much to cover up for him as doing the work. Yep, I am right there with you. I just kind of figured Jared was there to be his minion and do the day in and day out work for him. Someone who knew him well enough to make decisions for him and someone he could trust to do the job without writing a tell all book a few years down the road. But when Ivanka's role changed from quasi-FLOTUS to a west winger, it made me wonder of there wasn't something more to it. Nah--Jared, Ivanka et al., are all in place to glean as much as they possibly can having top security clearances so that in 4 years they can capitalize on their intel both US and overseas. They are self serving first and foremost--never take your eyes off that fact!
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 25, 2017 16:18:10 GMT
Well, if you consider that some people voted for Trump only because "he's not Hillary" it makes more sense. If someone voted for him for that reason, no matter what he says or does really matters. In the end, so long as he's not Hillary (and he never will be), he's doing what he wanted them to do. He may not be able to speak in coherent sentences - but he's not Hillary. He may not know where our fleets are - but he's not Hillary. He may take away your health care and your family may end up bankrupt - but he's not Hillary. He may destroy the environment and send us back to pre-EPA levels of pollution - but he's not Hillary. He may dismantle public education entirely - but he's not Hillary. He may take his orders directly from Putin himself - but he's not Hillary. He may start WW3 and destroy us all - but he's not Hillary. So long as that's your only criteria, it really doesn't matter what he does. SaveSaveThis is my experience, as well. And for many in this very red area, they wouldn't have voted for *any* Democrat because Democrats are all libtards who suck off the public teat and want everything handed to them and don't support the military or the police. [insert eyeroll] So, it was not only "but he's not Hilary," it was "but he's not a Democrat" around here. In any case, they're fine with whatever Trump does because it's better than whatever Hilary or a Democrat would have done. They suffered through all that marriage equality, pro-choice, international esteem nonsense for eight years and they're thrilled to be getting their voice/platform back. Save
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Jili
Pearl Clutcher
SLPea
Posts: 4,363
Jun 26, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by Jili on Apr 25, 2017 16:29:27 GMT
I always thought it was because he really didn't want to be President-- oh, not the adulation part, he LVOES that part, but doing the actual 'work' part-- if he can get away with delegating the actual 'thinking' to someone else and they just tell him what to think / do, that seems like the kind of thing he would do, to me. But reading more of his word salads, it looks like they COULD be there as much to cover up for him as doing the work. Yep, I am right there with you. I just kind of figured Jared was there to be his minion and do the day in and day out work for him. Someone who knew him well enough to make decisions for him and someone he could trust to do the job without writing a tell all book a few years down the road. But when Ivanka's role changed from quasi-FLOTUS to a west winger, it made me wonder of there wasn't something more to it. I've had this same thought. Ivanka and Jared are the POTUS.
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Jili
Pearl Clutcher
SLPea
Posts: 4,363
Jun 26, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by Jili on Apr 25, 2017 16:29:55 GMT
Yep, I am right there with you. I just kind of figured Jared was there to be his minion and do the day in and day out work for him. Someone who knew him well enough to make decisions for him and someone he could trust to do the job without writing a tell all book a few years down the road. But when Ivanka's role changed from quasi-FLOTUS to a west winger, it made me wonder of there wasn't something more to it. Nah--Jared, Ivanka et al., are all in place to glean as much as they possibly can having top security clearances so that in 4 years they can capitalize on their intel both US and overseas. They are self serving first and foremost--never take your eyes off that fact! Ok, that too!
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Apr 25, 2017 16:42:43 GMT
Nah--Jared, Ivanka et al., are all in place to glean as much as they possibly can having top security clearances so that in 4 years they can capitalize on their intel both US and overseas. They are self serving first and foremost--never take your eyes off that fact! Ok, that too! If it is both, then it is a win-win. And they get handsomely "compensated" for their public service, especially since Ivanka is volunteering.
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Post by megop on Apr 25, 2017 16:45:53 GMT
You may not remember, but I certainly do.
Not a Trump supporter here, but even if I were, there is no way in the world that I would come on this thread to voice that opinion.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 25, 2017 17:17:36 GMT
If it is both, then it is a win-win. And they get handsomely "compensated" for their public service, especially since Ivanka is volunteering. Just like Trump gets a pass for spending millions on his golf & restaurant outings (to his own properties, so he benefits in several ways) because he's donating his $400,000 salary. (When POTUS hadn't made any donations after the first few pay cycles, Sean Spicer said that the donation would be made at the end of the year, and that the press corps would choose the recipient. We'll see. Perhaps POTUS will use some of the money for a 6' portrait of himself.) Save
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 12, 2024 7:13:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 18:06:30 GMT
That interview was bonkers. I've never heard such a rambling, childishly worded interview from a World leader. I'm often surprised by the level at which he speaks, but it's not just recent. I can't figure out if it's just his blowhard personality or something else. Can you please provide a link to where you heard it? I can't seem to find a video or audio anywhere. All I find is other people reading the transcript.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Apr 25, 2017 18:29:32 GMT
You may not remember, but I certainly do. Not a Trump supporter here, but even if I were, there is no way in the world that I would come on this thread to voice that opinion. I don't think either "side" has any right to complain of persecution as a group. I do think it is very sad when individuals get genuinely hurt in the give and take. But this does happen over all sorts of issues here, not just politics. As members of a side or a group or a perspective, none of our hands are 100% clean, IMO, and we should all own that and try to move on and do better instead of titting-and-tatting ad infinitum.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Apr 25, 2017 20:36:22 GMT
This goes back to the demonization of knowledge on the right that I mentioned on a thread a while ago. Highly educated = elitist, and we can't have that. If you are knowledgeable about something, you have to hide it, lest you be considered elitist. It's why they don't care that Trump shows his ignorance so often. At least he's not one of those highly educated elitists parading his knowledge all over the place! I'm proud to say that I'm an elitist in this sense. I'm educated and I worked hard to become so. I'm not sure why someone who works with their body/hands is considered a "hard worker who does an honest day's work" but someone who works equally hard with their brains is not. I don't look down upon people who do these jobs, but perhaps they should have some respect for those who work with their brains as well. Smart people make things better. Smart people find better ways of doing things. I want smart people to be in charge of things, because they will base decisions upon facts and data and experience and knowledge. And I would prefer that the smart people in charge get to be in charge of things within their area of expertise, because that's a logical, smart way of doing things. When a dictator or totalitarian regime comes to power, one of the first moves is to get rid of the smart people, along with the artists and the clergy. Why? Because these people can become leaders. Because smart people think critically. Smart people will use their brains to resist the takeover. This has happened time and time again. Who remembers this, and will sound the alarm when they see it happening today? Smart people who have read books about history and who are able to think critically about it. My job as an "elitist educated person" is to teach young people to also become elitist educated people. I'm sure I won't be 100% successful, but if even 70% of my students go on to become smart people, I'll feel quite good about my life's work. Smart people are good for America, even if some don't feel that way. When someone mocks and ridicules smart people, you should ask yourself why - why is this person pandering to stupid people? Why is this person scared of smart people? The answer is usually not one that is beneficial to the people he's pandering to or the country as a whole. SaveThank you for this. As a history reader, I see so many parallels. China under Mao for instance. The consequences were staggeringly horrendous.
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