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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 26, 2017 3:59:21 GMT
I really think that what we are witnessing is the end of the Republican party. I have been a Republican my whole life (though I don't vote straight party ticket). I don't see how the party can come back from this (racist, misogynistic and just stupid). One can hope! My parents, in fact my entire family were Republicans back in the 50s and 60s. It was a very different party back then. That party started going south during the Vietnam Nam war and the turmoil of 1968, '69 and '70. There was a lot of money being made off of that war and when the protests and violence built to a crescendo they were forced to get out of Nam and it pissed off a lot of the big money on the Republican side. It has slowly deteriorated since then. The Republican representatives no longer work for the good of the people they are all about the money they can personally make off of the corporate wealth and wars. I'm old and I've watched it evolve in real time. To me it was a planned, calculated evolution of destroying our public education system first so that citizens don't have the education and critical thinking skills to see the deception. Then push religion and manipulate it. A huge surge of the earlier money came when the televangelists learned to take religion to the people through tv and started making millions and millions that were not taxed. A lot of that money was funneled to the Republican Party. As more and more money from religion and big corporations was passed to the Republican politicians they got greedier and greedier. It's to the point now where they are blatantly and out in the open lowering taxes for the wealthiest among us and screwing those who really need services. They are bleeding this country dry with their war mongering and welfare to big companies. There is of course a lot more to it than that and I by no means think all Democrats are the good guys but at this point they are all we have to try to stop the corruption and greed that we now have running this country.
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Post by mellyw on Aug 26, 2017 3:59:49 GMT
He's testing his pardon powers. His family and friends must be cheering. I never thought I would hate another human this much. Absolutely this. He's trying to "normalize" pardons, so when he gets to his family, and most likely himself, it will just be the normal course of business. Everyone does it, nothing to see here. That Mueller noose must be feeling mighty tight.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 4:10:09 GMT
I really think that what we are witnessing is the end of the Republican party. I have been a Republican my whole life (though I don't vote straight party ticket). I don't see how the party can come back from this (racist, misogynistic and just stupid). One can hope! My parents, in fact my entire family were Republicans back in the 50s and 60s. It was a very different party back then. That party started going south during the Vietnam Nam war and the turmoil of 1968, '69 and '70. There was a lot of money being made off of that war and when the protests and violence built to a crescendo they were forced to get out of Nam and it pissed off a lot of the big money on the Republican side. It has slowly deteriorated since then. The Republican representatives no longer work for the good of the people they are all about the money they can personally make off of the corporate wealth and wars. I'm old and I've watched it evolve in real time. To me it was a planned, calculated evolution of destroying our public education system first so that citizens don't have the education and critical thinking skills to see the deception. Then push religion and manipulate it. A huge surge of the earlier money came when the televangelists learned to take religion to the people through tv and started making millions and millions that were not taxed. A lot of that money was funneled to the Republican Party. As more and more money from religion and big corporations was passed to the Republican politicians they got greedier and greedier. It's to the point now where they are blatantly and out in the open lowering taxes for the wealthiest among us and screwing those who really need services. They are bleeding this country dry with their war mongering and welfare to big companies. There is of course a lot more to it than that and I by no means think all Democrats are the good guys but at this point they are all we have to try to stop the corruption and greed that we now have running this country. PERFECT! Beliefs over facts will be the end of this nation. I hope the contagion doesn't spread to Canada, Europe and other places that have escaped the scourge of it.
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Post by cade387 on Aug 26, 2017 4:39:50 GMT
Ok- so I read this on a FB link to a twitter feed (so it could be total BS) BUT
A lawyer said that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt and he would be open to civil cases with almost no defense now. Which could be the only good thing out of this mess. (Which isn't good at all)
Pardons are only federal right? States crimes aren't eligible? Could the state bring charges against him? Would it have to be new or previously untried cases due to double jeopardy?
I have no idea so I apologize if this is a dumb string of questions.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 4:48:40 GMT
Trump is a deplorable person and anyone who still supports him is too. I agree. Spreadsheet keepers, please put down that I liked and verbally agreed with this statement. If you are still supporting Trump at this point, you are a racist bigot with no respect for the rule of law. Don't like that description? Too damn bad. Suck it up and own it. How do you not know that most people that support him apply logic and reason to the issues and come to a different, yet not racist, bigoted or wrong conclusion than you, based on the same facts. And that it doesn't make them racist bigots. How do you not know that?
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,160
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Aug 26, 2017 4:56:14 GMT
If you can commute the sentence of an admitted and convicted traitor to this county than this is nothing. Arpaio was convicted of a misdemeanor for violating a court order and might have received a sentence of up to 6 months. I could understand the outrage to the pardon if the judge had convicted him of the charges that led to the order, that would justify the anger. Most of you wouldn't have batted an eye if any president other than Trump had done this.
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Post by cade387 on Aug 26, 2017 5:24:27 GMT
If you can commute the sentence of an admitted and convicted traitor to this county than this is nothing. Arpaio was convicted of a misdemeanor for violating a court order and might have received a sentence of up to 6 months. I could understand the outrage to the pardon if the judge had convicted him of the charges that led to the order, that would justify the anger. Most of you wouldn't have batted an eye if any president other than Trump had done this. You are absolutely wrong. This is a bad guy who has done very bad things to human beings. The fact is that most people who don't think he did bad things usually goes along with them (like the "sheriff") thinking those who were hurt really aren't humans. It is disgusting and I would post the same if any other president had offered a pardon.
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Post by roberta on Aug 26, 2017 5:30:26 GMT
Definitely not the reasons a presidential pardon is given. They are often personal or partisan and controversial like this one for Arpaio, but more often done at the end of term when there is little political fall out. IMHO Trump did it to shore up his base and keep them happy. He is doubling down on building the wall and needs Joe's support and people to help him because the local Reps & Senators aren't behind him. SaveSavePardons are also sometimes done in the case of someone who has shown substantial rehabilitation, or because of some other mitigating factor that makes the sentence being served no longer appropriate. I agree with your assessment for Trump's reasons. The only mitigating factor I can see is that the guy is OLD and going to jail, if it came to that, would be perhaps cruel and unusual. But it doesn't excuse the fact that Trump is making a statement here that law enforcement doesn't have to follow court orders. Trump's been butting heads with the judiciary from day 1, and this sends a dangerous signal that he has no respect for the judicial branch. He has no respect for anyone other than himself and those that are an extension of himself (= his family & sheep followers).
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 5:31:32 GMT
If you can commute the sentence of an admitted and convicted traitor to this county than this is nothing. Arpaio was convicted of a misdemeanor for violating a court order and might have received a sentence of up to 6 months. I could understand the outrage to the pardon if the judge had convicted him of the charges that led to the order, that would justify the anger. Most of you wouldn't have batted an eye if any president other than Trump had done this. You are absolutely wrong. This is a bad guy who has done very bad things to human beings. The fact is that most people who don't think he did bad things usually goes along with them (like the "sheriff") thinking those who were hurt really aren't humans. It is disgusting and I would post the same if any other president had offered a pardon. What very bad things did Sheriff Arpaio do?
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Aug 26, 2017 5:38:24 GMT
Pardons are also sometimes done in the case of someone who has shown substantial rehabilitation, or because of some other mitigating factor that makes the sentence being served no longer appropriate. I agree with your assessment for Trump's reasons. The only mitigating factor I can see is that the guy is OLD and going to jail, if it came to that, would be perhaps cruel and unusual. But it doesn't excuse the fact that Trump is making a statement here that law enforcement doesn't have to follow court orders. Trump's been butting heads with the judiciary from day 1, and this sends a dangerous signal that he has no respect for the judicial branch. He has no respect for anyone other than himself and those that are an extension of himself (= his family & sheep followers). I know people who worked for him for many years very good decent people.. . One of them is a cousin. He loved it.He's fijin, he's a big guy so he got another job, he was also right in the heat of the Jody Arias. Everyone here has different opinions of him here. I was just surprised he didn't do it when he was here. I also am surprised it was this early and not till after the sentencing. He would probably have not done jail time. I know he was controversial but I'm not sure the anger and outrage and pure hate (which there seems to be a lot of)matches the actions. In this case.
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Post by busy on Aug 26, 2017 9:25:54 GMT
You are absolutely wrong. This is a bad guy who has done very bad things to human beings. The fact is that most people who don't think he did bad things usually goes along with them (like the "sheriff") thinking those who were hurt really aren't humans. It is disgusting and I would post the same if any other president had offered a pardon. What very bad things did Sheriff Arpaio do? I’ll refer you to this thread from a Phoenix paper, which includes many links to reporting about Arpaio’s wrongdoings over the years
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 10:11:49 GMT
You are absolutely wrong. This is a bad guy who has done very bad things to human beings. The fact is that most people who don't think he did bad things usually goes along with them (like the "sheriff") thinking those who were hurt really aren't humans. It is disgusting and I would post the same if any other president had offered a pardon. What very bad things did Sheriff Arpaio do? Is this a serious question? I knew some of the more recent stories and went to search for more info following the pardon. What I found was If you don't know I would suggest you read his history and make sure you read it all.
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 26, 2017 11:16:20 GMT
What very bad things did Sheriff Arpaio do? Is this a serious question? I knew some of the more recent stories and went to search for more info following the pardon. What I found was If you don't know I would suggest you read his history and make sure you read it all. I think Ricky is a troll or one of our missing trumpites -- Gia? -- and they love to post stuff just to get reactions. Because anyone with even one brain cell can read all the stuff about Arpaio and see that he broke the law. Broke. The. Law. He thinks he's above the law, like trump does. I was just reading how he kept people in jail cells after their time was up simply because he wanted to, because he didn't like their looks basically (i.e., Hispanic). And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 11:20:58 GMT
Is this a serious question? I knew some of the more recent stories and went to search for more info following the pardon. What I found was If you don't know I would suggest you read his history and make sure you read it all. I think Ricky is a troll or one of our missing trumpites I'm certain you're right, more so reading the bull**** she/he posted on the military transgender thread.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,333
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Aug 26, 2017 12:45:11 GMT
Ricky is definitely the new board troll.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 26, 2017 13:14:41 GMT
Trump is a deplorable person and anyone who still supports him is too. I agree. Spreadsheet keepers, please put down that I liked and verbally agreed with this statement. If you are still supporting Trump at this point, you are a racist bigot with no respect for the rule of law. Don't like that description? Too damn bad. Suck it up and own it. Word. Add me to the list. I completely agree. There is no reason to support Trump unless you are also a racist, homophobic, narcissistic bigot.
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Post by Merge on Aug 26, 2017 13:19:43 GMT
I agree. Spreadsheet keepers, please put down that I liked and verbally agreed with this statement. If you are still supporting Trump at this point, you are a racist bigot with no respect for the rule of law. Don't like that description? Too damn bad. Suck it up and own it. How do you not know that most people that support him apply logic and reason to the issues and come to a different, yet not racist, bigoted or wrong conclusion than you, based on the same facts. And that it doesn't make them racist bigots. How do you not know that? Hi, Gia. Not playing with you today.
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Post by Merge on Aug 26, 2017 13:20:36 GMT
Ricky is definitely the new board troll. Yeah, I don't think she's new. I think it's someone we all know very well.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Aug 26, 2017 13:51:54 GMT
Ricky is definitely the new board troll. Fixed it. Not new..recycled.
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Post by annaintx on Aug 26, 2017 13:54:27 GMT
Here's your PSA for the day: The block feature is really fantastic.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 26, 2017 14:11:12 GMT
Ricky is definitely the new board troll. Yeah, I don't think she's new. I think it's someone we all know very well. The posting style seems different than some of the old Trump supporters, though.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 14:32:05 GMT
Ricky is definitely the new board troll. And like most trolls feeds on making broad statements w/o backup ala "everybody does it". Because the nuance of false equivalence is often beyond them. Trolls wither w/o attention (just like their hero).
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 26, 2017 14:44:53 GMT
I live in AZ. Many people here are sick and tired of paying up to cover Joe's misdeeds. He's been sued - MANY times - and every time it happens, we get to pay for his defense. He's lost - MANY times - and each time it happens, we get to pay for the damages. "Oh, but he's just doing his job! What part of illegal don't you understand?" The problem is that he wasn't doing his job. He ignored things he didn't care to do - even though they were part of his job, like investigating hundreds of child abuse cases. He did things that weren't part of his job - like immigration round-ups (how about letting ICE and BP take care of those things, and you take care of...I don't know, maybe Maricopa County?) - and he often did them in ways that he was explicitly told were unconstitutional. He treated the people in his custody as if they had already been tried, convicted, and it was now his job to punish them - even though some of them hadn't even been charged with crimes yet, and never would be - or they would be acquitted at their trials! Sheriff Joe used his tank and swat team to arrest a guy wanted for a misdemeanor - destroying a house, causing a fire, and killing a dog while his officers laughed at the dog's owner while she heard it dying in the fire. And what part of illegal don't I understand? Well, I understand full well that many of these immigration sweeps didn't just nab illegal immigrants - but that American citizens got swept up in them, just because they 'looked' illegal. No - they looked like Americans of Mexican origin, and they were arrested for no good reason at all. That's why Joe Arpaio was found guilty. For those who are still too stupid to understand or think that this is just an example of MAGA, here's what you should be thinking about: You may be an American. You may be a citizen. You may have no accent, and you may not have committed any crimes. Just like the people who were rounded up in Joe's immigration sweeps. They were Americans. They were citizens. Some of them may have had accents, and some didn't. They hadn't committed any crime that would cause them to be rounded up - other than looking Mexican in a place where other Mexican-looking people were located. They had to go down to the station. They had to be processed. They had to call someone to bring their birth certificates or proof of citizenship. And that person probably had to take time off work, and face the inconvenience of dealing with this. If American citizens can be arrested and rounded up with no reason at all, what on earth makes you believe that you are safe? Today it might be the Mexican-looking ones. But what happens when YOUR group needs to be rounded up? What happens when it's someone who looks like YOU who is the danger to society?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 14:50:17 GMT
Some are saying the pardon is a message to Mueller.
If you can be convicted for contempt of court (as an officer of the law no less), Trump wants Mueller to see that he (Trump) will pardon away. That's why it's important for Schneiderman to bring state charges and for us all to protest loudly and w/determination if Trump were ever to pardon the actions of money laundering, Russian agent cronies.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,969
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Aug 26, 2017 14:57:44 GMT
I agree. Spreadsheet keepers, please put down that I liked and verbally agreed with this statement. If you are still supporting Trump at this point, you are a racist bigot with no respect for the rule of law. Don't like that description? Too damn bad. Suck it up and own it. Please add me to this list. Trump is a horror, and any person who supports him is a terrible, morally corrupt person. You can add me to the list as well.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 26, 2017 15:06:12 GMT
I live in AZ. Many people here are sick and tired of paying up to cover Joe's misdeeds. He's been sued - MANY times - and every time it happens, we get to pay for his defense. He's lost - MANY times - and each time it happens, we get to pay for the damages. "Oh, but he's just doing his job! What part of illegal don't you understand?" The problem is that he wasn't doing his job. He ignored things he didn't care to do - even though they were part of his job, like investigating hundreds of child abuse cases. He did things that weren't part of his job - like immigration round-ups (how about letting ICE and BP take care of those things, and you take care of...I don't know, maybe Maricopa County?) - and he often did them in ways that he was explicitly told were unconstitutional. He treated the people in his custody as if they had already been tried, convicted, and it was now his job to punish them - even though some of them hadn't even been charged with crimes yet, and never would be - or they would be acquitted at their trials! Sheriff Joe used his tank and swat team to arrest a guy wanted for a misdemeanor - destroying a house, causing a fire, and killing a dog while his officers laughed at the dog's owner while she heard it dying in the fire. And what part of illegal don't I understand? Well, I understand full well that many of these immigration sweeps didn't just nab illegal immigrants - but that American citizens got swept up in them, just because they 'looked' illegal. No - they looked like Americans of Mexican origin, and they were arrested for no good reason at all. That's why Joe Arpaio was found guilty. For those who are still too stupid to understand or think that this is just an example of MAGA, here's what you should be thinking about: You may be an American. You may be a citizen. You may have no accent, and you may not have committed any crimes. Just like the people who were rounded up in Joe's immigration sweeps. They were Americans. They were citizens. Some of them may have had accents, and some didn't. They hadn't committed any crime that would cause them to be rounded up - other than looking Mexican in a place where other Mexican-looking people were located. They had to go down to the station. They had to be processed. They had to call someone to bring their birth certificates or proof of citizenship. And that person probably had to take time off work, and face the inconvenience of dealing with this. If American citizens can be arrested and rounded up with no reason at all, what on earth makes you believe that you are safe? Today it might be the Mexican-looking ones. But what happens when YOUR group needs to be rounded up? What happens when it's someone who looks like YOU who is the danger to society? Um, if they burn your house down and your in jail, exactly how are you going to get your birth certificate? Because the town won't re-issue a new one to just anyone. Only me, DH or my child can apply to get my kids birth certificates re-issued. I guess if you torch someone's house you get to keep them indefinitely?
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 26, 2017 16:40:00 GMT
Yeah, I don't think she's new. I think it's someone we all know very well. The posting style seems different than some of the old Trump supporters, though. Yeah, because she thinks screaming Bengahzi, Hillary, emails would give her away.
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Post by mellyw on Aug 26, 2017 17:11:02 GMT
It boggles the mind that any American would defend Joe Arpaio. He did heinous, disgusting things, and that's just as a thinking fucking human being. That doesn't even cover how illegal the acts were. And the fucker flaunted the law, over and over. You know, the silly little thing he swore, most likely on a bible, cause he's a good Christian holding down anything browner than him, to uphold.
JFC, if the average American read about his reign of terror happening in a third world country, they'd think those poor people, thank goodness we have laws to prevent that from happening here.
I'll just put it out there. If you are white in this country, you don't know the fear of being "other". You just don't. And being dismissive of a Sheriff who broke the law against brown people, shows that.
I happened to live in Phoenix at the beginning of his terror reign. From the beginning, the man was a fucking menace. And I'm terribly sad that some of my fellow Americans can't see that. White priviledge is alive and well in this country.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 26, 2017 17:40:44 GMT
It makes me sad to see my former students post things on FB like:
"The first time I was ever roughed up by the cops..."
This guy is 22 years old now. The first time he was roughed up was when he was 16. They said he 'matched the description' of a guy they were looking for - a Hispanic male, approximately 5'10". My former student even now is only 5'5" or so. At 16? Maybe 5'3" - yeah, he's pretty short for a guy and he got teased a lot for it. But nowhere near the description.
The second time, he was 17. I knew about it when it happened. He and his mom were eating at a local fast food and saw a couple of guys attack a homeless man. He helped the homeless guy. When the cops showed up, guess who got roughed up? Not the white guys harassing the homeless guy. Not the white homeless guy. Nope, the brown guy who jumped in to try to help was assumed to be the bad guy. Guess who had called 911 in the first place? Yeah, the brown guy who tried to help.
I have no idea how many times he's been stopped and questioned since. He's not a bad kid, not at all. He wasn't in a gang. He was an honors student who went on to university. He's a decent person - and an American citizen since birth. And yet somehow under the training and procedures in place under Arpaio's tenure, he managed to have multiple issues with the law. He was never actually charged with anything - because he never actually did anything. He was just stopped, questioned, inconvenienced...all because he 'looked like' he might be someone who needed to be stopped and questioned.
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Post by busy on Aug 26, 2017 18:01:58 GMT
Gallows humor that pretty much sums it up for me.
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