AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 13, 2017 16:00:50 GMT
As part of child support? Should divorced parents be required to pay college tuition? How should it be determined, if so?
I don't think parents should have to pay college tuition. I think it is great when they can/do, but I don't think it should be court-ordered. What about parents that aren't divorced? Who is making them pay college? What about the kids that have no business going straight to college?
What about kids that take college courses in high school? Should parents be forced to split those costs? Or does whomever have custody pay? Whomever is paying child support? In my district kids can take college classes through two programs. One is free tuition but you have to pay for books/lab fees, etc. The other requires parents to pay everything.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 13, 2017 16:03:43 GMT
I picked other. I think there are so many things that could determine what would be right for each family and child. I do believe that they should absolutely be considered and discussed before signing though.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 13, 2017 16:05:50 GMT
As part of child support? Should divorced parents be required to pay college tuition? How should it be determined, if so? I don't think parents should have to pay college tuition. I think it is great when they can/do, but I don't think it should be court-ordered. What about parents that aren't divorced? Who is making them pay college? What about the kids that have no business going straight to college? What about kids that take college courses in high school? Should parents be forced to split those costs? Or does whomever have custody pay? Whomever is paying child support? In my district kids can take college classes through two programs. One is free tuition but you have to pay for books/lab fees, etc. The other requires parents to pay everything. We lucked out on this. I think we paid a total of $800 for 35 college credits. I would have paid for this for my child regardless of an agreement in a divorce. It was worth it.
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Post by librarylady on Sept 13, 2017 16:07:35 GMT
I picked other. I think there are so many things that could determine what would be right for each family and child. I do believe that they should absolutely be considered and discussed before signing though. My thoughts also. So many variables, it is not the same for every family.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Sept 13, 2017 16:10:26 GMT
I couldn't get my ex to agree to college support. He took the stance of not knowing what his life would be like at the time. I, on the other hand, believe that we as parents should do anything we can to support a degree.
Our child support agreement goes until she reaches the "age of majority" which is 21 in my state, so he will still be paying child support through much of college. I don't know if he realizes that though.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 14:59:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 16:10:28 GMT
I think it depends on which state you live in and what your financial ability to provide support is. Some states, the legal age of emancipation is 21 which would cover the college years. I think if I could afford it and my child wanted to attend college and was dedicated towards obtaining a degree, I would provide financial support regardless of what is spelled out in the child support agreement.
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Post by mom on Sept 13, 2017 16:11:47 GMT
I think it should be up to the individual parent to pay (or not) once a child is over 18. I personally do not believe college is a must either.
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Post by busy on Sept 13, 2017 16:16:13 GMT
I don't know that percentages should be declared. That may or may not be practical, especially if the children are very young when the divorce occurs. I do think there should be some language addressing it; the parents should agree whether or no they are going to pay for/contribute to college expenses at the time of divorce and that should be in the decree. I think the specifics can be determined closer to when the child(ren) go to college. What that would look like, legally, I don't know.
My concerns with declaring percentages is what if a kid gets in a school that's affordable for one parent but not for another? And setting a dollar amount cap wouldn't be very practical either, as who knows what college will cost 12 years in the future.
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Post by pondrunner on Sept 13, 2017 16:28:14 GMT
I think child support should be arranged in such a way as to give a child the best chance of succeeding and if that means a parent pays a percentage of college tuition past the child's 18th birthday I am fine with that. I think setting a percentage of income up to a dollar amount, or a percentage of expense, would be reasonable.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Sept 13, 2017 16:31:44 GMT
In my state, child support ends at graduation or age 18 if the child is under 18 at graduation. Arrangements for college can be written in if both parents agree to it, but it is not required.
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Post by myboysnme on Sept 13, 2017 16:37:01 GMT
My dad had 4 kids with my mom. She barely got any child support at all. He had 3 kids with his second wife. She was savvy, worked full time and had resources. She made sure college tuition was included in her divorce.
So those 3 kids got college and we got nothing. Maybe if he didn't have to pay the full load for those 3 he could have divided it by 7 and helped each of us a bit if he could/would.
How come it was ok for us to go without but her kids got full ride college off our dad?
So I voted for stop child support at 18.
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Post by busy on Sept 13, 2017 16:48:25 GMT
My dad had 4 kids with my mom. She barely got any child support at all. He had 3 kids with his second wife. She was savvy, worked full time and had resources. She made sure college tuition was included in her divorce.
So those 3 kids got college and we got nothing. Maybe if he didn't have to pay the full load for those 3 he could have divided it by 7 and helped each of us a bit if he could/would.
How come it was ok for us to go without but her kids got full ride college off our dad?
So I voted for stop child support at 18. That's a lousy and unfair situation for sure. And it's also an excellent illustration of why it's SO important to have competent, separate legal representation in a divorce, and not to focus on just getting it done cheaply and quickly.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 14:59:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 17:06:10 GMT
How come it was ok for us to go without but her kids got full ride college off our dad?
So I voted for stop child support at 18. That sucks, but wouldn't the better scenario have been that you and your siblings been provided with college tuition as well vs. denying that privilege to your half sibs?
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Post by myboysnme on Sept 13, 2017 17:25:54 GMT
That sucks, but wouldn't the better scenario have been that you and your siblings been provided with college tuition as well vs. denying that privilege to your half sibs Ideally parents will help with tuition when they are able. I don't think divorce means pay tuition for legal adults when parents in general are not required to if they remain married. I don't think my dad could have afforded college tuition for all of us. As it is he cashed in his 401K to pay college tuition for them and died destitute.
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 13, 2017 17:30:13 GMT
This is one of those areas where my general feeling (that life is hard to know about, family situations differ, etc.) conflicts with the anecdata I've been exposed to, which is that it is far too common a story that when parents divorce, kids live with mom, dad fights every dime, and doesn't pay college tuition he would have paid were the parents still together. So for that reason, if the parents are in a position where it appears that they will be able to assist with college, I think I favor having it in divorce decrees.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,602
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Sept 13, 2017 17:34:11 GMT
College is not optional for my kids, so yes, I do think college should be considered in a divorce decree.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Sept 13, 2017 17:35:06 GMT
I think that college tuition to not exceed xx% of the parent's income is reasonable and should be included in all decrees. If you can't afford it.. then you can go back and have it reconsidered.
But too many noncustodial parents just don't do the 'right thing'. When it comes to money and divorce people act like idiots and often don't take the children's best interest to heart.
Perhaps I am just bitter because my ex is so far behind.
He spends $15,000 on his son's education and doesn't pay child support for our daughter. He thinks the laws don't apply to him. At $500 an hour for a lawyer it quickly eats up the amount he owes me in lawyer fees. Once he hits the $20K behind then I'll try to get it.
This is typical. He just got back from a month long vacation... he can't pay DD's child support but I'm sure he has paid his son's private school fees.
Sorry.. i went off topic. but if you would ex[ect to pay for some of your kids education... then put it in the divorce decree.
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Post by Really Red on Sept 13, 2017 17:35:51 GMT
My dad had 4 kids with my mom. She barely got any child support at all. He had 3 kids with his second wife. She was savvy, worked full time and had resources. She made sure college tuition was included in her divorce.
So those 3 kids got college and we got nothing. Maybe if he didn't have to pay the full load for those 3 he could have divided it by 7 and helped each of us a bit if he could/would.
How come it was ok for us to go without but her kids got full ride college off our dad?
So I voted for stop child support at 18. That's a lousy and unfair situation for sure. And it's also an excellent illustration of why it's SO important to have competent, separate legal representation in a divorce, and not to focus on just getting it done cheaply and quickly. Yes! Exactly that. I cannot imagine a parent not being required to pay at least a portion of college tuition. This is 2017. For the most part, you have to have a degree these days. I'm not saying that the parent has to pay all or part of a Harvard education, but there should be some stipulation about how much we should pay. And just be cause you got a sucky situation, it doesn't mean everyone should have that same sucky situation, right? FWIW, I am surprised about child support stopping at 18. Here in Virginia, it's what you put in your decree. I was going to write 21 on my decree, but my lawyer stopped me and said what if my kids take a gap year or whatever. So we did until they are out of college OR until age 24. Fortunately, neither my ex nor I are hateful about money and we do what we need to do for the kids.
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Post by Really Red on Sept 13, 2017 17:39:00 GMT
I think that college tuition to not exceed xx% of the parent's income is reasonable and should be included in all decrees. If you can't afford it.. then you can go back and have it reconsidered. But too many noncustodial parents just don't do the 'right thing'. When it comes to money and divorce people act like idiots and often don't take the children's best interest to heart. Perhaps I am just bitter because my ex is so far behind. He spends $15,000 on his son's education and doesn't pay child support for our daughter. He thinks the laws don't apply to him. At $500 an hour for a lawyer it quickly eats up the amount he owes me in lawyer fees. Once he hits the $20K behind then I'll try to get it. This is typical. He just got back from a month long vacation... he can't pay DD's child support but I'm sure he has paid his son's private school fees. Sorry.. i went off topic. but if you would ex[ect to pay for some of your kids education... then put it in the divorce decree. Just a big fat hug. That stinks; I am sorry. I also agree with the percentage of income to a point. What if they retire? What if they decide to hide things because they can?
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 13, 2017 17:39:02 GMT
College is not optional for my kids, so yes, I do think college should be considered in a divorce decree. Why not? How old are they now? What happens if they decide a year in that they do not want to continue?
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Sept 13, 2017 17:39:53 GMT
I wouldn't want anyone to be burdened to pay for something that they just flat can not afford. I would have been terrified if I'd have had to pay even half of a $30-$40k/year tuition.
I helped my youngest (Older didn't go to college) with as much as I could, and then he got a loan for the balance. I'm a big believer in the kids having some skin in the game, makes them work harder IMO.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 13, 2017 17:42:23 GMT
I think college tuition should absolutely be discussed/considered. The actual language is going to be extremely dependent on family dynamics, but both parents should absolutely be aware of what each party is expecting/expected to contribute to college - particularly if that number is zero. Both parents' information is included in financial aid determination. It's completely unfair to the child, for them to be unaware that their parents are not intending to contribute to college. If the parents disagree about college contribution, it might also change the negotiation of other asset/support distribution. It could make sense to tie something to the Expected Family Contribution - as that would at least be a third party determination based on actual income and assets - but I haven't been through that process in 20 years - it may be completely unworkable.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Sept 13, 2017 17:43:53 GMT
Too many variables for me. It might be because I had poor parents so I worked and paid my own way through university. When I applied to universities I had to factor in tuition and housing costs and what employment was available to me.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Sept 13, 2017 17:44:14 GMT
I think that college tuition to not exceed xx% of the parent's income is reasonable and should be included in all decrees. If you can't afford it.. then you can go back and have it reconsidered. But too many noncustodial parents just don't do the 'right thing'. When it comes to money and divorce people act like idiots and often don't take the children's best interest to heart. Perhaps I am just bitter because my ex is so far behind. He spends $15,000 on his son's education and doesn't pay child support for our daughter. He thinks the laws don't apply to him. At $500 an hour for a lawyer it quickly eats up the amount he owes me in lawyer fees. Once he hits the $20K behind then I'll try to get it. This is typical. He just got back from a month long vacation... he can't pay DD's child support but I'm sure he has paid his son's private school fees. Sorry.. i went off topic. but if you would ex[ect to pay for some of your kids education... then put it in the divorce decree. Just a big fat hug. That stinks; I am sorry. I also agree with the percentage of income to a point. What if they retire? What if they decide to hide things because they can? It's tricky for sure. Of course they can hide things.... but they would be hiding them from the court... so they are taking that risk. If I were to do it now and I could I would say.... 50 % of XXX (avg college tuition) not to exceed XX% of each parents income. Adjusted for inflation. Mine has some sort of clause about voluntarily unemployed. My ex wanted it in because I wasn't employed when we got divorced.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,538
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Sept 13, 2017 17:50:00 GMT
If the parties agree or if the court decides it should be.
Aside from the original question, I want to comment that I have a pet peeve or gripe that for FAFSA determination, if the parents are married, both incomes are counted. However, if the same parents were divorced, only the residential or custodial parent's income is listed. I have a BIG problem with that.
Both parents are PARENTS and a divorce or if they were never married, has nothing to do with PARENTAGE.
I know, I know, I will get all the horror stories about how one parent never pays, dodges child support, doesn't work, etc. etc.
Well, the same scenarios can happen if parents are married.
Sorry, just a big vent as this social worker and her retired firefighter husband pay $20,000 in tuition and room/board, even with our son's big academic scholarship. Per FAFSA, we can "afford" to contribute $47,000 per year towards his college. And he qualified for nothing, not even work/study job option, except only $4200 in UNSUBSIDIZED student loans and he did the maximum in a TEACH grant. If not for those two things, we'd have to pay nearly $30000 in college each year.
That is a third of our actual income!!
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,768
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Sept 13, 2017 17:50:09 GMT
This is one of those areas where my general feeling (that life is hard to know about, family situations differ, etc.) conflicts with the anecdata I've been exposed to, which is that it is far too common a story that when parents divorce, kids live with mom, dad fights every dime, and doesn't pay college tuition he would have paid were the parents still together. So for that reason, if the parents are in a position where it appears that they will be able to assist with college, I think I favor having it in divorce decrees. Unfortunately, this was our scenario. DDs father wouldn't help with a single penny of anything other than his court ordered child support and half of the medical bills (and most of those he fought because they "didn't really NEED to go to the doctor") It was not an issue of not being able to help, it was a choice. He even said to DH and I that if we were going to cover things why should he?! The bittersweet part is that he has custody of his kids from his last marriage and fortunately for them doesn't act the same way towards their desire to be involved in activities, etc. Unfortunately for DDs they get to see what he willingly does for his other kids. I vote yes simply because it's too common for divorced parents to act like assholes towards each other and the kid gets caught in the middle.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,602
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Sept 13, 2017 17:51:09 GMT
College is not optional for my kids, so yes, I do think college should be considered in a divorce decree. Why not? How old are they now? What happens if they decide a year in that they do not want to continue? Because we know that it's tough to do much without a college degree. My kids have been told since day one unless they have a really good paying job or are independently wealthy at the age of 18, they will be going to college. If they decide in a year they don't want to continue? Unless there's a physical or emotional reason for them not to be on their own and working, they'll be on their own. I'm 3 out of 4 so far and don't see number 4 choosing to do something else, so for us, college would be considered in a divorce decree. May work differently for other families but that's what I would expect. And I know my husband wouldn't balk at paying for college. We've been saving for their college educations for 25 years - it's hard for me to picture him changing his tune now.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
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Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Sept 13, 2017 17:54:57 GMT
It's a complicated question, so I voted other. I'll go a step forward from peabay and say that tertiary education is a requirement for my kids. It has never not been an option. If one of them had a passion for plumbing or some other non college based career we would have spoken about it. Dh and I, and our parents and grandparents before us, worked our butts off so we could provide our kids with good starting blocks for life and unfortunately the expense of tertiary education is one of those things. Not just any college degree mind you, but one that gives you a career, which is why you could be a plumber if that's what rocks your boat. It would most definitely be in any divorce decree and if the kids were young it would cover a financial plan, beginning now, on saving for that education just like we do now as a family. I would not leave it as a we will wait and see option and what if there is no money at the time it's needed, yada yada. In addition, there would be the requirement of life insurance to cover those expenses should one of us die. ETA: Of my four kids, 2 already have PhDs, one in Computer Science, one in Biomed and two are on their way to getting them, one in Neuroscience and one is charting his own course in (eta) Neuro Computer Mechanics (an official degree doesn't exist, as he says, yet!).
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 13, 2017 17:56:12 GMT
If the parties agree or if the court decides it should be. Aside from the original question, I want to comment that I have a pet peeve or gripe that for FAFSA determination, if the parents are married, both incomes are counted. However, if the same parents were divorced, only the residential or custodial parent's income is listed. I have a BIG problem with that. Both parents are PARENTS and a divorce or if they were never married, has nothing to do with PARENTAGE. I know, I know, I will get all the horror stories about how one parent never pays, dodges child support, doesn't work, etc. etc. Well, the same scenarios can happen if parents are married. Sorry, just a big vent as this social worker and her retired firefighter husband pay $20,000 in tuition and room/board, even with our son's big academic scholarship. Per FAFSA, we can "afford" to contribute $47,000 per year towards his college. And he qualified for nothing, not even work/study job option, except only $4200 in UNSUBSIDIZED student loans and he did the maximum in a TEACH grant. If not for those two things, we'd have to pay nearly $30000 in college each year. That is a third of our actual income!! Is that new? When I was in high school (a million years ago) both parents were included - or perhaps that was due to shared custody? Or it may be certain schools require both parents information. It was a pretty hot topic 20 years ago as many of the absentee parents were not paying a dime of support and precluding their kids from obtaining financial aid.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 13, 2017 17:59:51 GMT
I wouldn't want anyone to be burdened to pay for something that they just flat can not afford. I would have been terrified if I'd have had to pay even half of a $30-$40k/year tuition. I helped my youngest (Older didn't go to college) with as much as I could, and then he got a loan for the balance. I'm a big believer in the kids having some skin in the game, makes them work harder IMO. I just paid this semester's tuition, parking, books, etc. It was under 6K. Many colleges are nowhere near the 30-40K price tag if you live at home or stay in state. I had no skin in the game for my college tuition and I worked extremely hard and graduated early. It really depends on the kid. I do not want my boys having loans when they get out of college. My teacher friends are still paying back their loans 17 years into their careers. Ouch.
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