used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 24, 2017 22:46:14 GMT
Kaepernick originally sat in protest, he started kneeling to show reverence to the military while still engaging in his protest against racial injustice.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 24, 2017 23:04:58 GMT
The linked article in the OP compared Tebow and Kaepernick. Both Christians. Both quarterbacks. Both kneeling on camera. Neither one an "sob". But one of them is revered for his beliefs and the other is not. butTebow did not kneel during the anthem. I think trying to compare them is futile. One knelt in reverence, one in protest. One during a time that didn't offend people, one who did. Neither is an sob. I'm sure there are those who were offended by TT, but a white guy on the football field taking a knee for his beliefs is perfectly acceptable behavior. In comparison to a black counterpart taking a knee for what he believes in of course. 🙄
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 24, 2017 23:15:00 GMT
A question for everyone here who works outside their home. How many of your bosses or companies would allow you to come to work each day and kneel for 3-5 minutes in protest of the injustices in the USA ? I think the TV platform plays a large role in them doing this. Why don't they organize their protest in their off, non-football hours ? I work a job where we are required to do the flag pledge at least once a week. If I choose to not participate that is my right. One of my coworkers who used to do the pledge with her class quit after it became required by our state to do it. She was not a fan of forced patriotism and opted to quit doing it. Her class did it, but she sat while they did it. I am also not a fan of forced patriotism, but since I had been doing the pledge with my class prior to the law I continued to do it. But if I wanted to protest the injustices of the USA during that time by kneeling or sitting, I could. Other than athletes and teachers, how many people are required to do the pledge or national anthem at their workplace? SaveSaveMy question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time.
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Post by SockMonkey on Sept 24, 2017 23:17:09 GMT
I work a job where we are required to do the flag pledge at least once a week. If I choose to not participate that is my right. One of my coworkers who used to do the pledge with her class quit after it became required by our state to do it. She was not a fan of forced patriotism and opted to quit doing it. Her class did it, but she sat while they did it. I am also not a fan of forced patriotism, but since I had been doing the pledge with my class prior to the law I continued to do it. But if I wanted to protest the injustices of the USA during that time by kneeling or sitting, I could. Other than athletes and teachers, how many people are required to do the pledge or national anthem at their workplace? SaveSaveMy question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. In the state of Illinois, the pledge is recited in public schools each day, by law. However, schools may not force students (or teacher) to recite the pledge. If I sat or students sat during the pledge, I/they could not be disciplined. Illinois The Pledge of Allegiance shall be recited each school day by pupils in elementary and secondary educational institutions supported or maintained in whole or in part by public funds. 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/27-3 (2005). The statute says each student must recite the Pledge each day — with no exception for those who do not wish to do so. However, in a federal lawsuit that was filed, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the statute did not violate the students’ rights, so long as students were free not to participate in the recitation of the Pledge. Sherman v. Community Consol. School Dist. 21 of Wheeling Tp., 980 F.2d 437 (7th Cir. 1992).
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peasquared
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,473
Jul 6, 2014 23:59:59 GMT
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Post by peasquared on Sept 24, 2017 23:28:25 GMT
I found it rather funny that most of those that are upset that sports figures are being political, that late night hosts are being political, and actors at awards show are being political, voted for a reality TV star to be the main political force in the USA.
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 24, 2017 23:29:18 GMT
My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. In the state of Illinois, the pledge is recited in public schools each day, by law. However, schools may not force students (or teacher) to recite the pledge. If I sat or students sat during the pledge, I/they could not be disciplined. Illinois The Pledge of Allegiance shall be recited each school day by pupils in elementary and secondary educational institutions supported or maintained in whole or in part by public funds. 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/27-3 (2005). The statute says each student must recite the Pledge each day — with no exception for those who do not wish to do so. However, in a federal lawsuit that was filed, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the statute did not violate the students’ rights, so long as students were free not to participate in the recitation of the Pledge. Sherman v. Community Consol. School Dist. 21 of Wheeling Tp., 980 F.2d 437 (7th Cir. 1992).My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 24, 2017 23:31:14 GMT
I work a job where we are required to do the flag pledge at least once a week. If I choose to not participate that is my right. One of my coworkers who used to do the pledge with her class quit after it became required by our state to do it. She was not a fan of forced patriotism and opted to quit doing it. Her class did it, but she sat while they did it. I am also not a fan of forced patriotism, but since I had been doing the pledge with my class prior to the law I continued to do it. But if I wanted to protest the injustices of the USA during that time by kneeling or sitting, I could. Other than athletes and teachers, how many people are required to do the pledge or national anthem at their workplace? SaveSaveMy question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. you keep discounting our responses because it doesn't fit what you want it to. I am absolutely allowed to protest injustices during my work hours during specific times, including during the pledge or the anthem which is exactly what these guys are doing. What doesn't correlate in your mind?
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 24, 2017 23:31:53 GMT
In the state of Illinois, the pledge is recited in public schools each day, by law. However, schools may not force students (or teacher) to recite the pledge. If I sat or students sat during the pledge, I/they could not be disciplined. Illinois The Pledge of Allegiance shall be recited each school day by pupils in elementary and secondary educational institutions supported or maintained in whole or in part by public funds. 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/27-3 (2005). The statute says each student must recite the Pledge each day — with no exception for those who do not wish to do so. However, in a federal lawsuit that was filed, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the statute did not violate the students’ rights, so long as students were free not to participate in the recitation of the Pledge. Sherman v. Community Consol. School Dist. 21 of Wheeling Tp., 980 F.2d 437 (7th Cir. 1992).My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time.that's up to the employer to make and enforce in house rules not you, me or a government official.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,947
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Sept 24, 2017 23:32:53 GMT
In the state of Illinois, the pledge is recited in public schools each day, by law. However, schools may not force students (or teacher) to recite the pledge. If I sat or students sat during the pledge, I/they could not be disciplined. Illinois The Pledge of Allegiance shall be recited each school day by pupils in elementary and secondary educational institutions supported or maintained in whole or in part by public funds. 105 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/27-3 (2005). The statute says each student must recite the Pledge each day — with no exception for those who do not wish to do so. However, in a federal lawsuit that was filed, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the statute did not violate the students’ rights, so long as students were free not to participate in the recitation of the Pledge. Sherman v. Community Consol. School Dist. 21 of Wheeling Tp., 980 F.2d 437 (7th Cir. 1992).My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. What you don’t seem to be getting, is if they didn’t play the national anthem at their job, I doubt they would be protesting either. They’d just go out on the field and play or “do their job”. So let’s quit playing the national anthem at “their job”. Problem solved.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 1:51:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 23:40:37 GMT
The linked article in the OP compared Tebow and Kaepernick. Both Christians. Both quarterbacks. Both kneeling on camera. Neither one an "sob". But one of them is revered for his beliefs and the other is not. butTebow did not kneel during the anthem. I think trying to compare them is futile. One knelt in reverence, one in protest. One during a time that didn't offend people, one who did. Neither is an sob. So mixing religion with the "game" is ok....but not politics. M'kay.
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Post by mom on Sept 24, 2017 23:44:22 GMT
Do I like that they are kneeling in protest? No.
Do I respect their right to do so? Yes.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 24, 2017 23:46:30 GMT
butTebow did not kneel during the anthem. I think trying to compare them is futile. One knelt in reverence, one in protest. One during a time that didn't offend people, one who did. Neither is an sob. So mixing religion with the "game" is ok....but not politics. M'kay. read the post without your bias jumping in. I said you can't compare the two effectively. They don't equate to the same thing. I don't think either is wrong or right. Trying to say that one was okay soley because the player was white and one wasn't soley because the player was black is overly simplistic at best, which is most often why the comparison is brought up.
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 24, 2017 23:48:24 GMT
My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. you keep discounting our responses because it doesn't fit what you want it to. I am absolutely allowed to protest injustices during my work hours during specific times, including during the pledge or the anthem which is exactly what these guys are doing. What doesn't correlate in your mind? That my question is not being answered.
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 24, 2017 23:49:21 GMT
My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time.that's up to the employer to make and enforce in house rules not you, me or a government official. Correct ! But how many bosses or companies would put up with that. I don't think many.
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 24, 2017 23:50:15 GMT
My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. What you don’t seem to be getting, is if they didn’t play the national anthem at their job, I doubt they would be protesting either. They’d just go out on the field and play or “do their job”. So let’s quit playing the national anthem at “their job”. Problem solved. Agree. No protesting at work.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 25, 2017 0:00:51 GMT
you keep discounting our responses because it doesn't fit what you want it to. I am absolutely allowed to protest injustices during my work hours during specific times, including during the pledge or the anthem which is exactly what these guys are doing. What doesn't correlate in your mind? That my question is not being answered. we've answered it. I can protest at work, during the pledge or at the beginning of the day. I can join the gsa and stand with them during the lunch or when not actively teaching. I can do the same and pray with the fca. Just because you can't and you don't want to and you dislike that they are doing it DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM doesn't mean that is the case everywhere. We've answered based in the pledge and/or the anthem because that is when this particular protest that you have issues with is also happening.
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 25, 2017 0:07:39 GMT
That my question is not being answered. we've answered it. I can protest at work, during the pledge or at the beginning of the day. I can join the gsa and stand with them during the lunch or when not actively teaching. I can do the same and pray with the fca. Just because you can't and you don't want to and you dislike that they are doing it DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM doesn't mean that is the case everywhere. We've answered based in the pledge and/or the anthem because that is when this particular protest that you have issues with is also happening. Thank you for mentioning you CAN protest on lunch or when not actively teaching. Protest on your own time. EXACTLY !
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 25, 2017 0:10:42 GMT
that's up to the employer to make and enforce in house rules not you, me or a government official. Correct ! But how many bosses or companies would put up with that. I don't think many. My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. <<<< you stated this and I bolded the part I was referring to. As far as this part... "But how many bosses or companies would put up with that. I don't think many.".... I don't know and would only be speculating. Probably not may within the regular on your own work hours. During a 3-5 minute group pledge or song singing meeting, I would bet many more would allow their employees to 'protest' by not participating. In my 30+ years of working no one was made to participate in on the clock activities that were not part of your main job description- as in sports players playing their sport.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 25, 2017 0:11:59 GMT
we've answered it. I can protest at work, during the pledge or at the beginning of the day. I can join the gsa and stand with them during the lunch or when not actively teaching. I can do the same and pray with the fca. Just because you can't and you don't want to and you dislike that they are doing it DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM doesn't mean that is the case everywhere. We've answered based in the pledge and/or the anthem because that is when this particular protest that you have issues with is also happening. Thank you for mentioning you CAN protest on lunch or when not actively teaching. Protest on your own time. EXACTLY ! I'm still on my contract time. They aren't protesting while actively playing either. It isn't like they get a first down and then protest. And the recital of the pledge or playing of the anthem IS during my contract day WITH students and I am still allowed to sit if I so choose to.
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Post by txdancermom on Sept 25, 2017 0:30:22 GMT
I read a commentary that when the taking to the knees during the anthem first happened a year ago the writer viewed it as disrespect to veterans and the flag and all we stand for. However, now that the tweeter in chief has decided to make it an issue, the writer sees it as an exercise of free speech and quiet disobedience. This is an issue that tweeter in chief did not need to insert himself into, and if he hadn't there might not have been an issue today.
I also agree that the football players (and other athletes who are paid to "perform" their sport for a paid audience) are in effect performers and employees of the team owners. In that respect the team owners and managers/coaches need to be setting the expectation for how their athletes "behave" during the playing of the anthem and any other activity during the time of the game and if their athletes do not perform in accordance with those guidelines, they can discipline them accordingly.
also, imho, going down on one (or 2) knee and bowing your head, is a sign that someone may be praying. there are other actions that they could be taking that would show a lot more disrespect imho.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 25, 2017 0:33:46 GMT
I work a job where we are required to do the flag pledge at least once a week. If I choose to not participate that is my right. One of my coworkers who used to do the pledge with her class quit after it became required by our state to do it. She was not a fan of forced patriotism and opted to quit doing it. Her class did it, but she sat while they did it. I am also not a fan of forced patriotism, but since I had been doing the pledge with my class prior to the law I continued to do it. But if I wanted to protest the injustices of the USA during that time by kneeling or sitting, I could. Other than athletes and teachers, how many people are required to do the pledge or national anthem at their workplace? SaveSaveMy question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. I didn't realize standing up for freedoms and beliefs required anyone to be "off the clock".
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 25, 2017 0:53:35 GMT
My question had nothing to do with the national anthem. I wanted to know how many people thought their bosses or companies would allow them to protest injustices in the U.S. for 3-5 minutes every day on company time. All these football and/or baseball players should protest on their own time; not company time. I didn't realize standing up for freedoms and beliefs required anyone to be "off the clock". To keep your job it definitely should. But that will be up to the individual owners/bosses
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Post by AussieMeg on Sept 25, 2017 0:56:47 GMT
Imagine being so removed from the conditions being protested that you're more upset by the act of protest itself. Worth repeating, and I'm quoting to make it easier for me to find this later.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 1:51:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 1:32:08 GMT
I've read so much on this topic today, all over social media. I've never taken offense to it. My dad was a purple heart veteran, yet he felt strongly about free speech and so do I. I can't help but think that 45 used this to distract us all from what's really going on. He was successful.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,009
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 25, 2017 1:58:35 GMT
Standing at attention to the flag while the National Anthem is played is showing respect for our veterans. That's the truth for a great many of us. Just because you assigned that meaning to that particular action doesn't make it so. The national anthem had never been about veterans, either in lyrics or in usage. It is about our country. Full stop.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 25, 2017 2:09:14 GMT
Does the outrage over this pretty much go right down party lines? And are we surprised that it has come to this? I'm not quite sure that this is a strictly party issue, but my state just flipped red even though it's conservative (mostly).
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 25, 2017 2:12:55 GMT
I didn't realize standing up for freedoms and beliefs required anyone to be "off the clock". To keep your job it definitely should. But that will be up to the individual owners/bosses The current POTUS should follow your rule. So should Neil Gorsch (who is out on the support/campaign trail for McConnell et al) I totally disagree with your opinion.
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 25, 2017 3:09:02 GMT
To keep your job it definitely should. But that will be up to the individual owners/bosses The current POTUS should follow your rule. So should Neil Gorsch (who is out on the support/campaign trail for McConnell et al) I totally disagree with your opinion. President Trump isn't protesting; he's trying to improve our country. Football and some baseball players too, should watch NASCAR and get some pointers.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 25, 2017 3:14:38 GMT
The current POTUS should follow your rule. So should Neil Gorsch (who is out on the support/campaign trail for McConnell et al) I totally disagree with your opinion. President Trump isn't protesting; he's trying to improve our country. Football and some baseball players too, should watch NASCAR and get some pointers. Even NASCAR needs more diversity in order to maintain its appeal.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 25, 2017 3:30:18 GMT
How does forcing people to stand for the national anthem improve the country? Are we no longer wanting to be the "land of the free"? m.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2108834/explainer-what-will-chinas-national-anthem-law-mean-hong?amp=1nypost.com/2017/08/28/screwing-with-chinas-national-anthem-could-soon-land-people-in-jail/amp/BEIJING — A proposed Chinese law threatens those making inappropriate use of the country’s national anthem with up to 15 days in jail, state media reported Monday, amid a surge in state-promoted patriotism under President Xi Jinping. The draft legislation would make it illegal to play the anthem at funerals and on other “improper” occasions, as well as to “maliciously” modify its wording or present it in a “distorted or disrespectful” way, the Xinhua News Agency said. Settings at which the anthem can be played include political gatherings, award ceremonies, flag-raising ceremonies, important diplomatic occasions and major sport events, Xinhua said. The draft was given a second hearing Monday by the standing committee of the National People’s Congress, China’s legislature. Passage in a third hearing is required for it to become law. “The legislation governing the use of the national anthem is feasible, necessary and of great significance to foster and practice socialist core values and to promote the patriotism-centered spirit of the nation,” Xinhua quoted Zhang Haiyang, deputy head of the legislature’s Law Committee, as saying. Xi, China’s strongest leader in decades, has appealed to resurgent nationalism among the public by pursuing a strong military, the vigorous expansion of the world’s second largest economy and a muscular foreign policy that frequently seeks to confront the US and other major powers. China recently established its first overseas military base in the Horn of Africa nation of Djibouti and Chinese companies have been scooping up overseas assets such as New York’s famed Waldorf Astoria hotel. Xi, who has also led the ruling Communist Party since 2012, has established a growing cult of personality that leans heavily on his image as a patriotic leader who brooks no slight to national dignity. China’s entirely state-controlled media relentlessly promote a view of China as morally superior to the West, and popular culture has been increasingly leveraged to stir patriotism among the younger generation for whom communism as a system has little meaning. The film Wolf Warrior II offering a bare-knuckled take on Chinese nationalism became the country’s all-time box office champion this summer, taking advantage of a two-month blackout period during which foreign films cannot be shown in Chinese cinemas. China’s national anthem, titled “March of the Volunteers,” was originally featured in a patriotic play that ran during the nearly 15-year struggle against Japan that lasted through the end of World War II. Lyrics include “Arise, ye who refuse to be slaves, with our flesh and blood let us build our new Great Wall.”
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