valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 24, 2017 16:40:39 GMT
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Post by leftturnonly on Sept 24, 2017 17:14:56 GMT
I wonder that some are not aware of Colin Kaepernick's beliefs when they deride his activism. I couldn't care less about his beliefs. I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 24, 2017 17:24:16 GMT
I wonder that some are not aware of Colin Kaepernick's beliefs when they deride his activism. I couldn't care less about his beliefs. I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of. so, you think that Kaepernick, who wanted to remind us that Black Lives Matter as much as military lives matter is not being respectful? If you watch the documentary Vietnam on PBS, you might see that even the military did not think Black Lives Matter. I think that the idea of protest is to shine a light into a dark corner and make us all think. He did that, but it sure has gotten ugly.
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Post by gypsymama on Sept 24, 2017 17:25:56 GMT
isn't one of the freedoms being fought for that of freedom of speech?
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Sept 24, 2017 17:30:07 GMT
On the same note those of us that disagree are called horrible things as well and that we don't understand. Heaven for bid we want to watch the game without all the extras politics. We pay for merchandise, tickets etc thats where theirnmoney comes from. Why cant everyone ls opinion be respected?
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,009
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 24, 2017 17:41:22 GMT
I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of. Kneeling for the anthem does not disrespect veterans. That's ridiculous.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Sept 24, 2017 17:54:11 GMT
I wonder that some are not aware of Colin Kaepernick's beliefs when they deride his activism. I couldn't care less about his beliefs. I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of. That is your right. I think not exercising your first amendment right and not supporting other's first amendment right is disrespectful to the veterans who fought for us.
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Post by leftturnonly on Sept 24, 2017 18:11:58 GMT
I couldn't care less about his beliefs. I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of. so, you think that Kaepernick, who wanted to remind us that Black Lives Matter as much as military lives matter is not being respectful? If you watch the documentary Vietnam on PBS, you might see that even the military did not think Black Lives Matter. I think that the idea of protest is to shine a light into a dark corner and make us all think. He did that, but it sure has gotten ugly. When I watch a football game, I'm there to watch a football game. I'm not there to see any particular player's personal beliefs about whatever injustice they have incurred in their life. Nor am I there to hear about how any particular player has beaten the crap out of their "beloved" SO and still managed to qualify in a starting position. I am not required to watch any documentary by anyone before I watch any kind of a sports game. In the same vein, if I want to watch a documentary about a person's beliefs or their position on a political matter, there is no requirement that I watch their sports highlight reel first. What part of I.do.not.care about a player's beliefs when I want to watch a sports game is so incomprehensible in the year 2017? I should think the lack of revenue would make that a self-answering common sense question if it weren't for the utter lack of common sense that has encapsulated our social media.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,046
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Sept 24, 2017 18:12:26 GMT
I've never understood the disrespect to veterans argument seeing as though black people and even enslaved Africans contributed so much to the armed forces yet still have to take a knee to protest.
Why would anyone stand for a country that doesn't honor their experience and continually victimizes them?
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Post by leftturnonly on Sept 24, 2017 18:24:11 GMT
isn't one of the freedoms being fought for that of freedom of speech? Yes, it is. What's your point? That I should watch a game when it's spoiled for me right from the beginning because it's become political and I watch sports to get away from politics? Standing at attention to the flag while the National Anthem is played is showing respect for our veterans. That's the truth for a great many of us.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,563
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Sept 24, 2017 18:25:15 GMT
I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of. Kneeling for the anthem does not disrespect veterans. That's ridiculous. You'll never get an answer because there isn't one. The gibberish you quoted makes no sense.
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Post by peano on Sept 24, 2017 18:26:05 GMT
so, you think that Kaepernick, who wanted to remind us that Black Lives Matter as much as military lives matter is not being respectful? If you watch the documentary Vietnam on PBS, you might see that even the military did not think Black Lives Matter. I think that the idea of protest is to shine a light into a dark corner and make us all think. He did that, but it sure has gotten ugly. When I watch a football game, I'm there to watch a football game. I'm not there to see any particular player's personal beliefs about whatever injustice they have incurred in their life. Nor am I there to hear about how any particular player has beaten the crap out of their "beloved" SO and still managed to qualify in a starting position. I am not required to watch any documentary by anyone before I watch any kind of a sports game. In the same vein, if I want to watch a documentary about a person's beliefs or their position on a political matter, there is no requirement that I watch their sports highlight reel first. What part of I.do.not.care about a player's beliefs when I want to watch a sports game is so incomprehensible in the year 2017?I should think the lack of revenue would make that a self-answering common sense question if it weren't for the utter lack of common sense that has encapsulated our social media. So while people are kneeling or whatever they feel compelled to do during the Anthem, why don't you just go get some wings. It will all be over soon, and the game will start and you can enjoy it and your football food. You know, the same principle as on 2 Peas--you don't like a thread, just scroll on by.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 24, 2017 18:26:45 GMT
What part of I.do.not.care about a player's beliefs when I want to watch a sports game is so incomprehensible in the year 2017? Then don't care and watch. Why give them the power to changed whether you watch or not? On the same note those of us that disagree are called horrible things as well and that we don't understand. Heaven for bid we want to watch the game without all the extras politics. We pay for merchandise, tickets etc thats where theirnmoney comes from. Why cant everyone ls opinion be respected? Don't watch the national anthem on TV then or keep your eyes on the flags. I don't know what anybody is doing during the anthem when I am at a sporting event unless they are directly in front of me or are talking around me. I don't need to care what someone else does. Feel free to boycott. I won't. I don't believe this group of people is disrespecting our country or our flag or our military. I do believe they are making a statement.
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Post by artgirl1 on Sept 24, 2017 18:29:59 GMT
Kneeling for the anthem does not disrespect veterans. That's ridiculous. I agree. The flag DOES NOT just represent the military and the veterans. It represents the UNITED States. Some sports figures have chosen this one method to protest a policy/action that they feel is unfair, and does not represent the best of the United States. It is in no way disrespectful to any member of the Military or Veterans. To deny their right to take this non-violent action as a form of protest negates the freedoms that the military has fought for.
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Post by SockMonkey on Sept 24, 2017 18:32:50 GMT
I wonder that some are not aware of Colin Kaepernick's beliefs when they deride his activism. I couldn't care less about his beliefs. I will exercise my right to not watch the disrespect to the men and women of all races, all skin colors, and all religions who have fought, bled and given their very lives to protect the freedoms that these extremely well-paid athletes are taking full advantage of. IT IS NOT DISRESPECTFUL TO EXERCISE ONE'S RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. Peaceful protest is exactly one of the freedoms all veterans have fought for. My dad fought in Vietnam. He's not ass hurt about Kaepernick, because he understands what he's doing. He doesn't feel disrespected one bit.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 24, 2017 18:34:21 GMT
I've got the message that you don't care, leftturnonly, but you don't need to quote me when you do not want to engage. That's pretty simple stuff. If you do not care, then walk away. But, I still wonder why a protest is anti-military. And, I wonder why a military that treated poor black men as expendable and easily replaced is deserving of everyone's respect. (That is my point of the Vietnam doc) I'm not judging anyone of their love or lack of the NFL. I just wondered if many people, particularly white, Christian people have been quick to judge Colin Kaepernick and the slamming of the NFL players by our president.
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Post by SockMonkey on Sept 24, 2017 18:39:04 GMT
isn't one of the freedoms being fought for that of freedom of speech? Yes, it is. What's your point? That I should watch a game when it's spoiled for me right from the beginning because it's become political and I watch sports to get away from politics? Standing at attention to the flag while the National Anthem is played is showing respect for our veterans. That's the truth for a great many of us. So, you're really mad because you might have to see and think about the fact that there is a large group of citizens in this country who are not treated as equals? And you'd rather just watch football? Sorry. Then don't watch. Or wait until kickoff. Standing at attention for the anthem and flag isn't pledging allegiance to the military or to veterans. That's not how this all works. It's pledging allegiance to our country, whose constitution protects the right to peaceful protest and a healthy responsibility to bring attention to injustice.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 2:17:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 18:39:48 GMT
I can't read the article because I don't have a subscription. However, regarding what I bolded: IMO there's a time and a place. I'm so very grateful and thankful to live in a country where we have freedom of speech. Even if I don't always agree with a view, I respect the rights of others to speak it...in the right place. If I go to a football/baseball/basketball game, I'm there for the sport and not politics. If I want to watch late night comedians, I don't want the hosts lecturing about health care. If I want to watch an awards show, I'm watching to see who won, not hear every speaker discuss politics and/or the president. (FTR, I can't stand awards shows anyway.) If I go to a public school function, I don't want to be preached at. I think it's become all to common for those with a platform and audience to take advantage of that. If people want to discuss their political views, religious views, etc., they should use the correct setting, and not force it on others that aren't interested. Several years ago I worked at a law firm that had a mandatory in-house lunch, and we didn't know ahead of time about what. Turns out it was a push for Amway. I was so pissed at being forced to sit thru something I had absolutely no interest in.
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Post by SockMonkey on Sept 24, 2017 18:40:04 GMT
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Post by pjaye on Sept 24, 2017 18:40:27 GMT
What part of I.do.not.care about a player's beliefs when I want to watch a sports game is so incomprehensible in the year 2017? Because those "players" are actual real life people and not robots. They have their own thoughts, opinions and experiences and have a right (just like everyone else does) to choose to share those opinions/ideas or not. You may not care to hear them, but you can't stop them expressing how they feel if they choose to. Nor should you be allowed to. If you don't like them expressing their opinions, then you can make the choice not to watch. It goes both ways. In our countries everyone has freedom of speech and we can all make our own choices. If you don't like that others express themselves, then you can turn off the TV/not listen/not buy tickets etc, but you can't demand that other people keep their mouths shut because you don't like what they have to say. I'm sure there's other countries where they do things the way you'd like - Nth Korea, China etc. Perhaps you could trying going to live there and see if it's all that great when people are expected to mindlessly do what they are told and keep their mouths shut about their personal beliefs, personally I prefer the country I live in where people get to speak up and I get to agree or disagree with them.
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Post by leftturnonly on Sept 24, 2017 18:41:57 GMT
So while people are kneeling or whatever they feel compelled to do during the Anthem, why don't you just go get some wings. It will all be over soon, and the game will start and you can enjoy it and your football food. You know, the same principle as on 2 Peas--you don't like a thread, just scroll on by. Then don't care and watch. Why give them the power to changed whether you watch or not? If players choose to behave in this way on playing fields, then their behavior will have consequences. Maybe there will be new enlightment on injustice. Maybe families of those actively serving now or in the past in our military will find other ways to spend their time than sitting in front of the TV watching the big game. Maybe the personal criminal records of wealthy athletes will be given more attention by fans who used to pay to watch them play anyway. All are possibilities that are accepted by an athlete protesting at a sporting event.
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Post by SockMonkey on Sept 24, 2017 18:43:56 GMT
So while people are kneeling or whatever they feel compelled to do during the Anthem, why don't you just go get some wings. It will all be over soon, and the game will start and you can enjoy it and your football food. You know, the same principle as on 2 Peas--you don't like a thread, just scroll on by. Then don't care and watch. Why give them the power to changed whether you watch or not? If players choose to behave in this way on playing fields, then their behavior will have consequences. Maybe there will be new enlightment on injustice. Maybe families of those actively serving now or in the past in our military will find other ways to spend their time than sitting in front of the TV watching the big game. Maybe the personal criminal records of wealthy athletes will be given more attention by fans who paid to watch them play anyway. All are possibilities that are accepted by an athlete protesting at a sporting event. You're watching a sport where 70% of the players are black, but you don't want them to draw attention to issues that black people, including them, face every day. Okay, so you just want them to shut up and dance for you? Seems... not good.
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Post by Sorrel on Sept 24, 2017 18:44:32 GMT
Deleted- realized someone already posted this link.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 24, 2017 18:57:26 GMT
Thanks, @devildog for responding to the question. I would have hated that Amway lunch!
The point about the correct place is really the hard part. Personally, I think taking a knee is generally pretty private, and it sort of started that way. But, I think that our right to enjoy all aspects of life on our terms only is a bit unrealistic. Here at the pod, we read stuff that we don't like and don't think we care about, and then, we find out something new and amazing. 😉
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Post by peano on Sept 24, 2017 19:01:10 GMT
So while people are kneeling or whatever they feel compelled to do during the Anthem, why don't you just go get some wings. It will all be over soon, and the game will start and you can enjoy it and your football food. You know, the same principle as on 2 Peas--you don't like a thread, just scroll on by. Then don't care and watch. Why give them the power to changed whether you watch or not? If players choose to behave in this way on playing fields, then their behavior will have consequences. Maybe there will be new enlightment on injustice. Maybe families of those actively serving now or in the past in our military will find other ways to spend their time than sitting in front of the TV watching the big game. Maybe the personal criminal records of wealthy athletes will be given more attention by fans who used to pay to watch them play anyway. All are possibilities that are accepted by an athlete protesting at a sporting event. Mmm. Let's see. People aren't allowed to take to the streets to protest peacefully, a la Black Lives Matter, because then they're just a bunch of thugs. And they aren't allowed to kneel quietly and peacefully in protest, because that interferes with your (snowflake-y) enjoyment of the game. What the $uck are they supposed to do. Ohhh, just shut up and play. Those servicemen you're referring to fought for our rights and freedoms, and the last time I checked, one of those was freedom of speech. I hated watching those Charlottesville Nazis spout their vile filth, but I will forever defend their right to do it.
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Post by leftturnonly on Sept 24, 2017 19:02:03 GMT
What part of I.do.not.care about a player's beliefs when I want to watch a sports game is so incomprehensible in the year 2017? Because those "players" are actual real life people and not robots. They have their own thoughts, opinions and experiences and have a right (just like everyone else does) to choose to share those opinions/ideas or not. You may not care to hear them, but you can't stop them expressing how they feel if they choose to. Nor should you be allowed to.If you don't like them expressing their opinions, then you can make the choice not to watch. It goes both ways. In our countries everyone has freedom of speech and we can all make our own choices. If you don't like that others express themselves, then you can turn off the TV/not listen/not buy tickets etc, but you can't demand that other people keep their mouths shut because you don't like what they have to say. I'm sure there's other countries where they do things the way you'd like - Nth Korea, China etc. Perhaps you could trying going to live there and see if it's all that great when people are expected to mindlessly do what they are told and keep their mouths shut about their personal beliefs, personally I prefer the country I live in where people get to speak up and I get to agree or disagree with them. I believe you have me mixed up with someone else.
Players can take a knee or not. I'm not the one to stop them, nor am I telling anyone not to take a knee. *edited as soon as I reread my post to add take a knee because it was mistakenly left out.You are agreeing with what I actually said. Y'all can just merrily continue interjecting your own ridiculous biases into what I have said. It's just another same-old-same-old day here in Pealand. SMH.
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Post by leftturnonly on Sept 24, 2017 19:05:41 GMT
People aren't allowed to take to the streets to protest peacefully, a la Black Lives Matter, because then they're just a bunch of thugs. Again, someone who must have me confused with someone else. All of you, please stop quoting me and linking me to things that I do not support. ***Edited as soon as I reread my post to clarify that I do not support denying peaceful protest by Black Lives Matter or anyone else.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 24, 2017 19:07:44 GMT
I can't read the article because I don't have a subscription. However, regarding what I bolded: IMO there's a time and a place. I'm so very grateful and thankful to live in a country where we have freedom of speech. Even if I don't always agree with a view, I respect the rights of others to speak it...in the right place. If I go to a football/baseball/basketball game, I'm there for the sport and not politics. If I want to watch late night comedians, I don't want the hosts lecturing about health care. If I want to watch an awards show, I'm watching to see who won, not hear every speaker discuss politics and/or the president. (FTR, I can't stand awards shows anyway.) If I go to a public school function, I don't want to be preached at. I think it's become all to common for those with a platform and audience to take advantage of that. If people want to discuss their political views, religious views, etc., they should use the correct setting, and not force it on others that aren't interested. Several years ago I worked at a law firm that had a mandatory in-house lunch, and we didn't know ahead of time about what. Turns out it was a push for Amway. I was so pissed at being forced to sit thru something I had absolutely no interest in. so everyone should cater to what you want and shove what they want to the back?
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Post by artgirl1 on Sept 24, 2017 19:09:02 GMT
f I go to a football/baseball/basketball game, I'm there for the sport and not politics. If I go to a football/baseball/basketball game I RESPECT the right of the players to exercise a non-violent protest
If I want to watch late night comedians, I don't want the hosts lecturing about health care. If I watch a late night comedian, I RESPECT their right to share their beliefs about health care based upon personal experience (or anything else)If I want to watch an awards show, I'm watching to see who won, not hear every speaker discuss politics and/or the president. (FTR, I can't stand awards shows anyway.) If I want to watch an awards show, I'm am watching to see who won, and if they choose to discuss a political/social concern during their allotted speech, then I respect that that is their choice. BECAUSE I RESPECT THEIR CHOICES. Because my opinion does not outweigh theirs. Because these are not the freedoms for which the United States stands, and for which the military has fought. BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 24, 2017 19:11:37 GMT
So while people are kneeling or whatever they feel compelled to do during the Anthem, why don't you just go get some wings. It will all be over soon, and the game will start and you can enjoy it and your football food. You know, the same principle as on 2 Peas--you don't like a thread, just scroll on by. Then don't care and watch. Why give them the power to changed whether you watch or not? If players choose to behave in this way on playing fields, then their behavior will have consequences. Maybe there will be new enlightment on injustice. Maybe families of those actively serving now or in the past in our military will find other ways to spend their time than sitting in front of the TV watching the big game. Maybe the personal criminal records of wealthy athletes will be given more attention by fans who used to pay to watch them play anyway. All are possibilities that are accepted by an athlete protesting at a sporting event. here's my thought. Whether I watch the game on tv today or not has no bearing on the lives of those who knelt today. It only affects the person watching or not watching. I have no problem with someone boycotting the nfl. It is their right just as it is the players rifht to kneel. I happen to live that about my country
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