Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 11:38:34 GMT
Yup, Trump's an ass. His words will continue to come back and smack him upside the head. And what?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 11:40:17 GMT
Rep. Gutierrez has said he'd agree to fully fund the wall for Dreamer protection. HE can fund anything HE can afford with his monies, Congress won't be doing it! I was surprised he's taking this position now. I have no clue if any other democrats agree, or if this will take up steam, but it actually caught me off guard
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 12:45:08 GMT
You do realize that you wouldn't need a single Democratic vote to pass an actual budget rather than these short term measures. These spending resolutions require 60 votes. Not all Republicans in either chamber voted for the measure. The Republican controlled Senate, House and Executive Branch should be able to pass any legislation they wanted. Yet the ONLY piece of major legislation they managed was the tax cut near the end of the year. The Republicans could, in theory, pass their version of immigration reform, if they could agree on what that was. They could fund infastructure. They could do a lot of things because they are in control. Again, in theory. In practice, they aren't in control of anything. Trump's invitation to Shumer was a calculated move on his part to try to shift blame from the Republican's to the Democrats for the failure of the Republican party to lead. Fortunately most of us can see through the president's bull. But then the majority of voters saw through him in November of 2016, too. ALL OF THAT!!! It's so exhausting trying to reason with a die-hard Trump supporter. My boyfriend actually said 'it's the Democrat's fault' and when I asked him to explain how that could be when the Republicans can't even agree amongst themselves, he said 'well, that's on both of them, then...' but still-- he won't acknowledge that the Republican party is not cohesive and since they're in charge, it's really more on them than the Democrats. I mean, really- if the Republicans won't even all vote for it, that's somehow the Democrats fault?!? I don't think so! (he did try and say that maybe Trump was just 'playing for effect' when he said in that televised meeting that he would sign a clean DACA bill, but he didn't really mean it... I seriously doubt Donald Trump is that intelligent. I agree more with the 'reasoning with Jello' statement.) If you're trying to suggest I'm a "die hard Trump supporter," you're wrong. Do you actually believe that democrats always agree 100% within their own party? Hell, there were 4-5 democrats that broke from the party on this exact vote. Does that mean the democratic party isn't cohesive? What are your thoughts on them? And what do you think about Rep. Gutierrez saying he'd be in favor of fully funding the wall for DACA? That sure doesn't fall in line with the democratic party. If running the government were as simple as lisae tries to make it out to be, we wouldn't even be having this argument.
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Post by gar on Jan 21, 2018 12:55:21 GMT
Yup, Trump's an ass. His words will continue to come back and smack him upside the head. And what? And nothing really, just that his hypocrisy needs to be shouted loud and clear whenever and wherever possible so it never becomes normal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 13:07:01 GMT
Yup, Trump's an ass. His words will continue to come back and smack him upside the head. And what? And nothing really, just that his hypocrisy needs to be shouted loud and clear whenever and wherever possible so it never becomes normal. When it comes to the government, and the 2 parties, hypocrisy runs deep. Right now the focus is on Trump, but the back and forth and party blaming, has been going on forever, and will continue to happen.
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Post by gar on Jan 21, 2018 13:08:19 GMT
I don't doubt that.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2018 13:13:48 GMT
And nothing really, just that his hypocrisy needs to be shouted loud and clear whenever and wherever possible so it never becomes normal. When it comes to the government, and the 2 parties, hypocrisy runs deep. Right now the focus is on Trump, but the back and forth and party blaming, has been going on forever, and will continue to happen. Just like you ranted and raved above. Pot meet kettle. Republicans should have never tried to risk the lives of the Dreamers for a Wall Trump was so sure that the Mexicans would be paying for. The Republicans are the ones trying to bargain the budget with these things, and then lying to the public to garner support. His office, the GOP are a circus, they lie day in and day out and are not to be believed any longer. I don’t blame the democrats for standing ground because Trump has reversed everything he has ever said more than once and then the GOP has their own agenda.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 13:42:45 GMT
When it comes to the government, and the 2 parties, hypocrisy runs deep. Right now the focus is on Trump, but the back and forth and party blaming, has been going on forever, and will continue to happen. Just like you ranted and raved above. Pot meet kettle.
Republicans should have never tried to risk the lives of the Dreamers for a Wall Trump was so sure that the Mexicans would be paying for. The Republicans are the ones trying to bargain the budget with these things, and then lying to the public to garner support. His office, the GOP are a circus, they lie day in and day out and are not to be believed any longer. I don’t blame the democrats for standing ground because Trump has reversed everything he has ever said more than once and then the GOP has their own agenda. Here's the thing: if you re-read what I've actually said here, I've spoken out against Republicans and Democrats. I've also said I put blame on the Republicans for the last shutdown, and place blame on the Democrats for this shutdown which is what prompted my post in the first place. I own that. Also, I've said both damn parties need to get their shit together and fix this crap. The divide, shutdowns, etc. have been going on for years, under both parties. The difference is, at least here, it appears democrats never blame their own party. For anything. Democrats never do any wrong. Ever. eta: If I had been here in 2013, my rant would have been the same, switching out Democrats for Republicans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 13:49:57 GMT
McConnell refused to bring forward a resolution on military pay. shareblue.com/watch-mitch-mcconnell-kill-effort-to-protect-military-pay-as-gop-pushed-for-shutdown/"Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) introduced a resolution that would have secured pay for service members, noting that Trump has been trying to divide the country by invoking the military and putting the blame on Democrats if they were to go unpaid in the event of a shutdown. She then said, “I don’t want one moment to pass with there being any uncertainty of any soldier anywhere in the world that they will be paid for the valiant work they do on behalf of our national security.” Despite widespread concern for the issue amongst both Democratic and Republican voters, Republican leadership didn’t show any regard for protecting military pay as they moved to shut down the government. McConnell quickly objected to McCaskill’s resolution — and instead left military pay up in the air along with the other casualties of his party’s decision to grind the federal government to a halt." I love Tammy Duckworth on Trump trying to use the military to score points w/the gullible.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2018 14:23:31 GMT
Just like you ranted and raved above. Pot meet kettle.
Republicans should have never tried to risk the lives of the Dreamers for a Wall Trump was so sure that the Mexicans would be paying for. The Republicans are the ones trying to bargain the budget with these things, and then lying to the public to garner support. His office, the GOP are a circus, they lie day in and day out and are not to be believed any longer. I don’t blame the democrats for standing ground because Trump has reversed everything he has ever said more than once and then the GOP has their own agenda. Here's the thing: if you re-read what I've actually said here, I've spoken out against Republicans and Democrats. I've also said I put blame on the Republicans for the last shutdown, and place blame on the Democrats for this shutdown which is what prompted my post in the first place. I own that. Also, I've said both damn parties need to get their shit together and fix this crap. The divide, shutdowns, etc. have been going on for years, under both parties. The difference is, at least here, it appears democrats never blame their own party. For anything. Democrats never do any wrong. Ever. eta: If I had been here in 2013, my rant would have been the same, switching out Democrats for Republicans. Just more gobbly-gook speak because you cannot/refuse to read what other peas have stated here. You’d rather scream about your agenda (alternative set of opinions) rather than read what other peas have written—you’ve done it since coming back with your alt ID. Many, many liberal peas have denounced the wrong doings of other democrats in office—based on actual facts. You just base your claims on the latest sound bites off the right wing news you read, otherwise you would see and understand. You just partake in some serious gaslighting here and it just isn’t working. You claim Trump is an ass (or whatever) and claim to not support his shit. But yet you do. When other peas have presented you with real facts of the matter of discussion, you go off on an (untrue) tangent that “democrats never blame their own”.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 14:48:29 GMT
Here's the thing: if you re-read what I've actually said here, I've spoken out against Republicans and Democrats. I've also said I put blame on the Republicans for the last shutdown, and place blame on the Democrats for this shutdown which is what prompted my post in the first place. I own that. Also, I've said both damn parties need to get their shit together and fix this crap. The divide, shutdowns, etc. have been going on for years, under both parties. The difference is, at least here, it appears democrats never blame their own party. For anything. Democrats never do any wrong. Ever. eta: If I had been here in 2013, my rant would have been the same, switching out Democrats for Republicans. Just more gobbly-gook speak because you cannot/refuse to read what other peas have stated here. You’d rather scream about your agenda (alternative set of opinions) rather than read what other peas have written—you’ve done it since coming back with your alt ID. Many, many liberal peas have denounced the wrong doings of other democrats in office—based on actual facts. You just base your claims on the latest sound bites off the right wing news you read, otherwise you would see and understand. You just partake in some serious gaslighting here and it just isn’t working. You claim Trump is an ass (or whatever) and claim to not support his shit. But yet you do. When other peas have presented you with real facts of the matter of discussion, you go off on an (untrue) tangent that “democrats never blame their own”.
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Deleted
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Shutdown
Jan 21, 2018 15:09:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 15:09:12 GMT
For what it's worth there have been 17 prior government shut downs since 1974. I found that quite surprising when I was reading about it. In 7 of those previous ones were workers placed on furlough. you can also see it's evenly spread historically between Dems and Repubs. ChartOh I'm fully aware. This is a unique shutdown situation in that the WH, House and Senate are controlled by the GOP for the first time in history. But this has been a year of firsts, many of them dubious and damaging. But 60 votes are needed so even if ALL Republicans voted, Dems we’re still needed. It’s not just simple majority
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 15:51:40 GMT
This is what happens when you have a piece of jell-o for president. After reading Sargent’s thread and the last bit from the Hill can you imagine any past president being this mailable? Is this president a just figurehead that the GOP rolls out to sign their bills. And then ignored the rest of the time? And when did the American People vote Kelly into office as president? No wonder the Republicans are working hard to keep trump in office because he is nothing but a figurehead they control which they might not be able to do with Pence.
From Greg Sargent..
“Short thread:
1) Here @kasie reports that John Kelly killed the last-minute compromise that Trump and Schumer were close to negotiating, even though it gave Trump much of what he wanted:
2) As I've reported, after Trump rejected the Durbin-Graham deal, Dems repeatedly asked Rs and WH officials for a counter-offer.
What more, Ds asked, does Trump need to get to a deal? They got NO meaningful answer:
wapo.st/2mWcoCw
3) Now we learn that Kelly intervened to stop a deal, on the grounds that it doesn't make enough anti-immigration concessions.
But at no point has the WH said what it *would* accept in order to get to Yes, let alone what deal might be acceptable that could get 60 in Senate.
4) Rs and WH officials never presented any counter offer. The only time there *actually was* a deal that Trump might accept came when a *Democrat* (Schumer) tried to make a deal with him.
And Kelly stepped in to kill it, even as the WH still has not offered any alternative.
5) What's more, Kelly may have killed the deal because GOP leaders urged him to.
WaPo reports that Mitch McConnell told Kelly to hold the line and *not allow* Trump to compromise:
washingtonpost.com/politics/negot…
6) And as @kyledcheney reports, Paul Ryan privately told McConnell that if a last-minuted deal was struck in which Congress would vote on an immigration bill, the House might not even act on it:
Kyle Cheney..
“INSIDE THE HOUSE DEM CAUCUS: Two House Democrats say @senatordurbin — who is huddling with them this AM — said he and McConnell were negotiating positively last night when McConnell got a call from @speakerryan, returned and said all bets are off.”
7) So Trump's cynical anti-immigration hardliners, along w/GOP leaders and the right wing of the Republican Party, are vetoing any compromise.
It is inescapably clear that they don't actually want a solution that protects the Dreamers. That's why there's a shutdown. FIN.“
And then there is this from the Hill.. “ JUST IN: Trump didn't approve his admin's list of immigration demands, was shocked by its contents: report hill.cm/7QDt8Qo
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casii
Drama Llama
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Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Jan 21, 2018 16:05:08 GMT
Oh I'm fully aware. This is a unique shutdown situation in that the WH, House and Senate are controlled by the GOP for the first time in history. But this has been a year of firsts, many of them dubious and damaging. But 60 votes are needed so even if ALL Republicans voted, Dems we’re still needed. It’s not just simple majority Yes. And while several Dems and Republicans have been working on bipartisan solutions, 'leadership' continues to shut it down. McCaskill introduced a resolution to guarantee military pay. GOP leadership shut it down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 16:15:49 GMT
But 60 votes are needed so even if ALL Republicans voted, Dems we’re still needed. It’s not just simple majority Yes. And while several Dems and Republicans have been working on bipartisan solutions, 'leadership' continues to shut it down. McCaskill introduced a resolution to guarantee military pay. GOP leadership shut it down. McConnell said that he hoped that they could restore funding for the entire government before action like McCaskill proposed would become necessary. He then went on to say "we'll talk about it tomorrow" (meaning today) From cspan www.c-span.org/video/?c4710181/senator-mcconnell-objects-military-pay-protection&start=89
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Post by dewryce on Jan 21, 2018 16:21:44 GMT
Yes. And while several Dems and Republicans have been working on bipartisan solutions, 'leadership' continues to shut it down. McCaskill introduced a resolution to guarantee military pay. GOP leadership shut it down. McConnell said that he hoped that they could restore funding for the entire government before action like McCaskill proposed would become necessary. He then went on to say "we'll talk about it tomorrow" (meaning today) From cspan www.c-span.org/video/?c4710181/senator-mcconnell-objects-military-pay-protection&start=89Hope is great. Action is better. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Not to mention the hypocrisy of GOP to then try and use this exact issue, which they could have prevented, to emotionally manipulate the public and blame the Dems.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 16:25:48 GMT
emotionally manipulate the public Kind of like what the dems are doing with DACA, right? Hypocrisy and irony, anyone?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 16:32:18 GMT
emotionally manipulate the public Kind of like what the dems are doing with DACA, right? Hypocrisy and irony, anyone? Where is the hypocrisy and irony with the Democrats and DACA?
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Post by dewryce on Jan 21, 2018 16:53:54 GMT
emotionally manipulate the public Kind of like what the dems are doing with DACA, right? Hypocrisy and irony, anyone? I think I need to start doing here what I do to my husband when we have these political conversations. Instead of taking the bait, just name the tactic he is using to derail the conversation when he doesn't like or agree with a point I have made. Deflect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 17:08:47 GMT
Kind of like what the dems are doing with DACA, right? Hypocrisy and irony, anyone? I think I need to start doing here what I do to my husband when we have these political conversations. Instead of taking the bait, just name the tactic he is using to derail the conversation when he doesn't like or agree with a point I have made. Deflect. How is it deflection when the dems have directly tied DACA to the negotiations? DACA is very much related to this shutdown. It's not deflecting to mention it. Nice try to avoid the factual reality.
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Post by dewryce on Jan 21, 2018 17:12:21 GMT
I think I need to start doing here what I do to my husband when we have these political conversations. Instead of taking the bait, just name the tactic he is using to derail the conversation when he doesn't like or agree with a point I have made. Deflect. How is it deflection when the dems have directly tied DACA to the negotiations? DACA is very much related to this shutdown. It's not deflecting to mention it. Nice try to avoid the factual reality. We were discussing military pay, not DACA.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 17:16:37 GMT
How is it deflection when the dems have directly tied DACA to the negotiations? DACA is very much related to this shutdown. It's not deflecting to mention it. Nice try to avoid the factual reality. We were discussing military pay, not DACA. The title of the thread is "SHUTDOWN". Military pay is certainly one aspect of the SHUTDOWN as is DACA. Again, not deflecting. Just because you don't want to address my comment, doesn't make it deflection. I hope you don't shut your husband down like that often by shouting DEFLECT at him.
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Post by dewryce on Jan 21, 2018 17:31:42 GMT
As within most political threads, there were specific conversations happening between members. You and I were discussing military pay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 17:37:56 GMT
I think I need to start doing here what I do to my husband when we have these political conversations. Instead of taking the bait, just name the tactic he is using to derail the conversation when he doesn't like or agree with a point I have made. Deflect. How is it deflection when the dems have directly tied DACA to the negotiations? DACA is very much related to this shutdown. It's not deflecting to mention it. Nice try to avoid the factual reality. Actually the Democrats wanted DACA and renewing CHIP resolved and seperate from the negotiations on the spending bills. It was the GOP that made DACA and the renewal of CHIP part of the negotiations. The trump/GOP’s intent was to use DACA and CHIP to force the Democrats to accept the spending cuts needed to pay for the tax cuts. Funny thing happened with this grand plan the trump/GOP leadership cooked up. It seems the trump/GOP can’t decide what they want for DACA. The Immigration hardliners are the real problem and not the Democrats. Even though 87% of Americans support extending DACA. The real irony is shortly after the 2014 mid term elections when the GOP took majority in the Senate, McConnell gave this speech where he wanted the American People to see how well the GOP could govern if the next president was a Republican and they had a majority in Congress.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 17:40:44 GMT
As within most political threads, there were specific conversations happening between members. You and I were discussing military pay. Who is deflecting now? You're unable to address my comment so this is your tactic. I guess it could be worse...you could just post a bunch of LOL's and HAHAHA like someone else does when they have nothing intelligent to add.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 21, 2018 17:54:39 GMT
Despite the rhetorical effort to paste Democrats with “Schumer’s Shutdown” and to redefine what constitutes majority control of the senate (“60”? Really?), the fact remains that this shutdown rests at the feet of the GOP and it appears a majority of Americans agree. I don’t like it. It certainly could have been avoided, but the President wound up negotiating against himself by taking a potential agreement off the table, leaving Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to lament, “As soon as we figure out what he is for, then I would be convinced that we were not just spinning our wheels.” That put Republicans in the position to spin their wheels right into another government shutdown. Pitiful. www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/20/who-will-america-blame-216487McConnell is STILL waiting for direction from dt. dt keeps changing his mind his mind over and over again. I have to say again, that dt stated to Congress, bring the bill to me and I will sign it. By Thursday he changed his mind AGAIN. He cannot remember what he says from day to day! They did, bipartisan at that, and he said no when they were in there Thursday, again on Friday. So who IS at fault?
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Post by dewryce on Jan 21, 2018 18:49:52 GMT
As within most political threads, there were specific conversations happening between members. You and I were discussing military pay. Who is deflecting now? You're unable to address my comment so this is your tactic. I guess it could be worse...you could just post a bunch of LOL's and HAHAHA like someone else does when they have nothing intelligent to add. You and I were originally discussing military pay. You tried to deflect and bring up a different topic. I'm simply not taking the bait. If you'd like to go back to the original conversation I'd be happy to.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 21, 2018 19:08:43 GMT
Call the White House comment line and this is what you get! “Thank you for calling the White House. Unfortunately, we cannot answer your call today because congressional Democrats are holding government funding, including funding for our troops and other national security priorities, hostage to an unrelated immigration debate," she says. “Due to this obstruction, the government is shut down," she continues. “In the meantime, you can leave a comment for the president at www.whitehouse.gov/contact. We look forward to taking your calls as soon as the government reopens.” The call then disconnects. This is totally inappropriate! But what else to expect from dt and/or Kelly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 19:11:46 GMT
Who is deflecting now? You're unable to address my comment so this is your tactic. I guess it could be worse...you could just post a bunch of LOL's and HAHAHA like someone else does when they have nothing intelligent to add. You and I were originally discussing military pay. You tried to deflect and bring up a different topic. I'm simply not taking the bait. If you'd like to go back to the original conversation I'd be happy to. I won't compartmentalize like that. The entire discussion (DACA and Military pay) is part of the shutdown discussion (watch any news...you'll see it all goes hand in hand...both are very much being discussed today. It's unfortunate you're unable to focus on more than one issue at hand here) Conversations grow and evolve. It's okay. In the meantime, you continue to ignore the valid point I brought up. Look at all of this back and forth between us because you cannot address my statement because we're not discussing the segment that you want to discuss. I guess that shows that if you had anything to add, you certainly would've by now instead of making your deflection claims. *shrug*
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Post by Baseballmom23 on Jan 21, 2018 19:20:40 GMT
My dh just told me that everyone is supposed to report to work Monday, go through shutdown procedures, then go home by mid-morning. I'm assuming he meant all departments...? or maybe just his? (State). He's not home for me to ask right now. Dh is considered essential so he goes to work no matter what. sigh... So stupid. My DH would have to do the same thing - thankfully he retired in September. I feel bad for all of the hardworking Federal employees especially the military who are being held hostage by this. If they are will not be getting paid, then so should the elected officials. It is them not the average Joe that is causing this mess.
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