sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 15, 2018 2:14:40 GMT
Wow. Herman Melville really had it right. "Of all the preposterous presumptions of humanity, over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms of the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed and well-fed." It was not always this way. I grew up extremely poor Then in all honestly, I dont really understand how you can say something like that.
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:19:46 GMT
It was not always this way. I grew up extremely poor Then in all honestly, I dont really understand how you can say something like that. Precisely because I've been there. My siblings have been there and my single mom raising four kids has been there. And each and every one of us has worked our butts off to get out of that situation. Others on this board have been there and worked their butts off to get out of the situation. We were grateful for the boxes of food given to us and it would never have occurred to us to gripe about the type of food or the indignity of it all. Was it embarrassing? Of course. But it made all of us determined that this would not continue to be our lives. So, you're damn straight that this "well-fed", "warm" person is going to be judgey. I own it. Precisely because I've been there.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 15, 2018 2:21:17 GMT
It is amazing to me that anyone would use the government can buy in bulk at a discount for this type of program that would add layers of bureaucracy (small government my ass) yet the exact same argument could be made for prescription drugs and...and...crickets... If you belive in government bulk discounts - I have a hammer to sell you
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 15, 2018 2:27:10 GMT
Then in all honestly, I dont really understand how you can say something like that. Precisely because I've been there. My siblings have been there and my single mom raising four kids has been there. And each and every one of us has worked our butts off to get out of that situation. Others on this board have been there and worked their butts off to get out of the situation. We were grateful for the boxes of food given to us and it would never have occurred to us to gripe about the type of food or the indignity of it all. Was it embarrassing? Of course. But it made all of us determined that this would not continue to be our lives. So, you're damn straight that this "well-fed", "warm" person is going to be judgey. I own it. Precisely because I've been there. Okay, it just seemingly completely disregards the amount of people who *do* have jobs, who are on them. It's more than you'd think.
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:30:29 GMT
My mom had a job. She worked all during my childhood. She could never be a class mom or bring birthday snacks to school.
I'm not disregarding anything. I just have a different opinion than you do; and contrary to what you and many others believe, just because I am white and have a conservative viewpoint does not mean I come from a life of priviledge.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,519
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Feb 15, 2018 2:32:56 GMT
My mom had a job. She worked all during my childhood. She could never be a class mom or bring birthday snacks to school. I'm not disregarding anything. I just have a different opinion than you do; and contrary to what you and many others believe, just because I am white and have a conservative viewpoint does not mean I come from a life of priviledge. Maybe she should have gotten another job so she didn't have to get free boxes of food. Work harder! Pull up those boot straps. SaveSave
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 18:08:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 2:33:08 GMT
It is amazing to me that anyone would use the government can buy in bulk at a discount for this type of program that would add layers of bureaucracy (small government my ass) yet the exact same argument could be made for prescription drugs and...and...crickets... I have to say I had the same type of thought in response to the use of the argument on this thread, that you don't punish the majority for the sins of the few. Which I agree with btw. The same exact argument HAS been made against creating yet more unenforced gun regulation that will only punish the law abiding gun owners (the majority).
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:40:36 GMT
My mom had a job. She worked all during my childhood. She could never be a class mom or bring birthday snacks to school. I'm not disregarding anything. I just have a different opinion than you do; and contrary to what you and many others believe, just because I am white and have a conservative viewpoint does not mean I come from a life of priviledge. Maybe she should have gotten another job so she didn't have to get free boxes of food. Work harder! Pull up those boot straps. SaveSaveShe actually *did* do that. She had two jobs. And she did work harder and she *did* pull herself up by her bootstraps. She did everything she could to get herself and her children off public assistance and to not become generational welfare receivers. I know you're just being a bitch, but in fact, my mom did everything you're tossing out there hoping to berate her.
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Post by pierkiss on Feb 15, 2018 2:40:45 GMT
I don’t like it. I think it will cost way too much money with packaging and delivery. I also do not believe the food will be any more nutritious than what some people chose to buy on their own. I worry about people with food sensitivities, allergies, and “pickiness”.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 15, 2018 2:47:08 GMT
My mom had a job. She worked all during my childhood. She could never be a class mom or bring birthday snacks to school. I'm not disregarding anything. I just have a different opinion than you do; and contrary to what you and many others believe, just because I am white and have a conservative viewpoint does not mean I come from a life of priviledge. Fair enough. I just wanted to understand where you were coming with that because it sounded a tad callous, and I think I do a bit more now. I'm fine with us each having different opinions on it still.
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:48:07 GMT
My mom had a job. She worked all during my childhood. She could never be a class mom or bring birthday snacks to school. I'm not disregarding anything. I just have a different opinion than you do; and contrary to what you and many others believe, just because I am white and have a conservative viewpoint does not mean I come from a life of priviledge. Fair enough. I just wanted to understand where you were coming with that because it sounded a tad callous, and I think I do a bit more now. I'm fine with us each having different opinions on it still. Thanks for the civil discussion. I appreciate it when that can happen here.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,519
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Feb 15, 2018 3:01:33 GMT
Maybe she should have gotten another job so she didn't have to get free boxes of food. Work harder! Pull up those boot straps. SaveSaveShe actually *did* do that. She had two jobs. And she did work harder and she *did* pull herself up by her bootstraps. She did everything she could to get herself and her children off public assistance and to not become generational welfare receivers. I know you're just being a bitch, but in fact, my mom did everything you're tossing out there hoping to berate her.No, to berate YOU. Dang, from growing up as you did I don't understand why you hate other poor people now. SaveSave
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 3:10:49 GMT
I reject your assertion that I hate poor people. It's a word you use to try to feel morally superior and to attempt to shame me. The fact is, I managed to do exactly what I claim others should do. In otherwords, I practice what I preach and I have lived in both worlds. If anyone is in a position to assert that poor people can work themselves into a better life, into self-respect and into dignity it's me; not some bleeding heart whose idea of dignity is giving people everything so that they can feel that they are wonderful while continuing in a life of poverty. People like you try to prove to yourself that you're a good person but what you really are is someone who strokes your own ego at the expense of the dignity and real advancement of poor people.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,519
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Feb 15, 2018 3:21:15 GMT
I reject your assertion that I hate poor people. It's a word you use to try to feel morally superior and to attempt to shame me. The fact is, I managed to do exactly what I claim others should do. In otherwords, I practice what I preach and I have lived in both worlds. If anyone is in a position to assert that poor people can work themselves into a better life, into self-respect and into dignity it's me; not some bleeding heart whose idea of dignity is giving people everything so that they can feel that they are wonderful while continuing in a life of poverty. People like you try to prove to yourself that you're a good person but what you really are is someone who strokes your own ego at the expense of the dignity and real advancement of poor people. . Not trying to stoke my ego at all. I'm trying to understand. What makes you think they are not trying to work themselves out of poverty? SaveSave
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 3:24:08 GMT
Oh, so now you want to "understand"? A few posts ago you were claiming I hate poor people and that you were berating me.
No, you're not the least bit interested in discussing the issue or in understanding. And I have no desire to try to convince you of anything.
I will however, leave with you with a recommendation of a book that may help you "understand". It's called "Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed" by Jason Riley. It might just open your eyes a bit.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,519
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Feb 15, 2018 3:40:05 GMT
Oh, so now you want to "understand"? A few posts ago you were claiming I hate poor people and that you were berating me. No, you're not the least bit interested in discussing the issue or in understanding. And I have no desire to try to convince you of anything. I will however, leave with you with a recommendation of a book that may help you "understand". It's called "Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed" by Jason Riley. It might just open your eyes a bit. Got it, you don't have an explanation that it's ok for your family to get free food but not others. Thanks. SaveSave
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 3:41:46 GMT
I'm not playing your game. I've said it all and others have read it and understood. You are simply looking to fight and it's a waste of time for me to do that with you.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,519
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Feb 15, 2018 4:06:19 GMT
I'm not playing your game. I've said it all and others have read it and understood. You are simply looking to fight and it's a waste of time for me to do that with you. Looking for an explanation of what you posted. But that's ok, your non answer is an answer. Time for bed. Have a good night. SaveSave
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 15, 2018 4:11:24 GMT
She actually *did* do that. She had two jobs. And she did work harder and she *did* pull herself up by her bootstraps. She did everything she could to get herself and her children off public assistance and to not become generational welfare receivers. I had a conversation with a friend today about how when she was little and longer ago when I was little, we were raised by a neighborhood. If someone got hurt, who ever's mom was around washed it and put a bandaid on it. Where ever you were you might eat lunch, use the bathroom, the same when kids were near our house. That is not the case these days. it is not safe for kids to be out all day, many mothers/fathers are not home during the day. No dispensing bandaids, that could be a lawsuit with germs etc. When my mom was not home one of my grandparents was home, remember I am old. I appreciate that your mom worked 2 jobs. But where were you kids while mom was working her 2 jobs?
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Feb 15, 2018 4:25:51 GMT
If you look at it you'll see everyone is being welcomed and civil to each other. I have read the whole thread and that's not my interpretation at all and that's fine. I'm not interested in another pissing match about conservatives vs liberals and prefer to join in threads that have a focused discussion on a topic.
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Post by chaosisapony on Feb 15, 2018 5:04:35 GMT
This seems so impractical. The shipping and logistics of it all would be very expensive (I had a kneejerk "follow the money" thought!) and I worry about waste. Already kids that get lunch at school throw away 50% of their tray regularly because they are forced to take items they don't want. So where do those items end up? In the trash can. The amount of food waste at our local elementary school truly is astonishing. It seems to me that giving people a box of food they likely don't want (because who really wants powdered milk?!) and possibly don't know how to use would result in nothing but a lot of tossed out food and wasted dollars.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 18:08:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 5:28:08 GMT
I think these boxes should be an extra, not part of snap. Maybe delivered like meals on wheels.
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Post by wholarmor on Feb 15, 2018 7:14:44 GMT
My mom also worked two jobs, and I practically raised my younger sister. We still qualified for government assistance. I just don't understand why you think that the working poor don't need help as well?
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Post by wholarmor on Feb 15, 2018 7:19:52 GMT
It's hateful, demeaning, impractical, and if you think you should get to dictate what people in need are allowed to eat, you're a special kind of a dick. I saw facebook comments like it will stop people "trading food stamps for liquor" which is not a thing one can do anymore since all the money is loaded onto the SNAP card and the register literally will not allow them to buy anything but food with it. You can't even get diapers or toilet paper with a SNAP card, let alone beer. The disdain and disrespect the privileged are proud to show those in need is fucking shameful. And yes, I feel quite strongly about this. People who receive benefits already have limited privacy and now the party of "small government" wants to insert themselves into the kitchens of the poor and decide what they're allowed to eat for dinner. Fuck. That. Noise. Fuck it in the ass with a cactus. You can sell your card. The going rate is half of whatever is on the card. Happens all the time. They do not ask for id at the checkout counter. Weird that you attributed compwalla's quote to me, but I did think that it was good.
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Post by darkangel090260 on Feb 15, 2018 8:32:52 GMT
getting a replacement EBT card is not easy and can take days. I had one quite working due to old age it took me 6 hours of waiting around for a new one. That is with the old one in hand. Now a lost or missing one can be hell to get a new one. If you get 2 new cards in one year it 3 x harder.
So most people pay in there taxes a whopping 3.00 per month into the SNap program. So not much and most people getting snaps are working and paying taxes in the program. Now, most people have families and they are working and paying taxes. So let's look at it this way if one family gets 350.00 in Snaps they have an extended family of about 600 people that family pays in 1,800 a month for the program there family member receives 350.00 of that. that means the extended family is pay in 1450 more per month than their family member who is in need gets. so if you break it down your not paying for someones SNAP each month it just money from their family that they go throw a program to get.
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Post by melanell on Feb 15, 2018 13:03:54 GMT
If it's not to reduce fraud, then what exactly is the purpose of the reform? What would be the point of taking away the autonomy of individuals to purchase the food which best meets their needs and circumstances and replace it with a box of "staples" as determined by the federal government? The reported purpose is to reduce costs by leveraging increased purchasing power and taking out the overhead and multiple profit layers by directly buying from farmers/producers. The government can certainly buy in bulk at a lower cost than individual consumers buying at the grocery store (particularly if they are limited in their grocery store selection, many poor areas have higher food costs as there is less competition than suburban areas). I think they're woefully underestimating the added administrative costs of actually implementing. This is exactly what I think as well. It sounds complicated and expensive to implement. And that's if we even get to a point where it's actually beneficial to those receiving it.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Feb 15, 2018 13:33:10 GMT
Problem solved. Gah, why didn't we all realize it was this simple. especially considering that almost every able-bodied, working-age adult receipient already HAS a job. 47% of SNAP recipients are children - are we seriously begruding food for children? and the elderly? and the disabled? I am trying to picture the 10 folks who live at our group getting jobs. First off the reason my county is so dang poor is that both major assembly plants closed down and moved out of country. That's why my husband drives 90mins one way to work every day plus he preaches full time at 2 churches (one doesn't pay him and if they did he just puts it back into the offering plate). There are no jobs here. Our schools don't even have labs, arts etc. I digress. Now we don't own this home we are the operators of it until the owner dies then it's ours. This 10 residents. Some of them can't even tell you their birthdays. They are not able to read or write. There is no transportation for them to travel to the nearest large community because they are medicare only so it would cost them 10 to travel to work. Then what kind of work can these mentally disabled folks do? I know in the cities there are problems for people in these situations that give them a little work but nothing that work make them self supportive. For us rural folks? I don't think people realize it. Now one of those manufacturing plants. My husband was the second from the top. Great job, he started there at the age of 17 with no training and worked his way up. He got his pink slip the day we made our last house payment (we made triple payments to pay it off quickly). So suddenly we were bringing in a low enough income to qualify for food stamps (not called snap then). He went back to school while drawing his unemployment and we didn't go on food stamps because luckily we we live debt free. So very lucky. It's easy to broad stroke and say "get a job" but when you look at individual situations you can see it's never that easy. Folks like my husband who goes from 60,000 a year to 20,000 in the blink of an eye. Family of 4, we qualified and he chose to go get his masters and teach. The residents of our home live in our home because they are unable to fend for themselves.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Feb 15, 2018 13:47:05 GMT
This would strongly impact our business and I am surprised my husband didn't say anything. We operate a group home and we receive no grant or government money. We are able to feed everyone in the home off of their food stamps alone. My husband is amazing at making those go a long way. We are talking real food as well. Chicken, roasts, pork etc. They really dislike things like powdered milk, powdered potatoes etc. This will be interesting for sure. I am quoting myself because I know you were all dying to hear my husband's opinion. He says he thinks it's fine and we would be able to work with it BUT he thinks it's highly unfeasible and isn't worrying about it happening. I thought he would be aggravated with it. We already take advantage of the commodities when they come in for the group home (one day I sat in the line up 40 mins to find out I was supposed to report inside and get the name checked off before joining that line). It was a 2 hour process to get a box of commodities. I can't imagine if I didn't have a car. I did notice folks with trucks picking up multiple boxes so I assume they were delivering. These programs WIC, free lunch program at schools, SNAP aren't they all just an extension of each other? I know with WIC you are restricted to certain things already. Just sort of playing the devil's advocate. I know if you are on the free lunch program there are a few limitations in getting seconds etc.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Feb 15, 2018 14:49:52 GMT
especially considering that almost every able-bodied, working-age adult receipient already HAS a job. 47% of SNAP recipients are children - are we seriously begruding food for children? and the elderly? and the disabled? I am trying to picture the 10 folks who live at our group getting jobs. First off the reason my county is so dang poor is that both major assembly plants closed down and moved out of country. That's why my husband drives 90mins one way to work every day plus he preaches full time at 2 churches (one doesn't pay him and if they did he just puts it back into the offering plate). There are no jobs here. Our schools don't even have labs, arts etc. I digress. Now we don't own this home we are the operators of it until the owner dies then it's ours. This 10 residents. Some of them can't even tell you their birthdays. They are not able to read or write. There is no transportation for them to travel to the nearest large community because they are medicare only so it would cost them 10 to travel to work. Then what kind of work can these mentally disabled folks do? I know in the cities there are problems for people in these situations that give them a little work but nothing that work make them self supportive. For us rural folks? I don't think people realize it. Now one of those manufacturing plants. My husband was the second from the top. Great job, he started there at the age of 17 with no training and worked his way up. He got his pink slip the day we made our last house payment (we made triple payments to pay it off quickly). So suddenly we were bringing in a low enough income to qualify for food stamps (not called snap then). He went back to school while drawing his unemployment and we didn't go on food stamps because luckily we we live debt free. So very lucky. It's easy to broad stroke and say "get a job" but when you look at individual situations you can see it's never that easy. Folks like my husband who goes from 60,000 a year to 20,000 in the blink of an eye. Family of 4, we qualified and he chose to go get his masters and teach. The residents of our home live in our home because they are unable to fend for themselves. It sounds like you and your husband do a good job of taking care of those ten residents. I grew up in a rural town and I know how hard it can be to find services.
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Post by gryroagain on Feb 15, 2018 15:40:17 GMT
Country ham, thank you for what you do for your residents. It is so, so needed and so very underappreciated. Not to mention underfunded.
Thank you for caring for the least of these.
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