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Post by pierkiss on Jan 23, 2019 19:05:18 GMT
Not everyone who is attending a private school is there because of means. About 1/3 of the students in our school system are there on scholarship. I suspect that is the case for a lot of the catholic schools in our area. You are painting the students who attend private and/or religious schools with a very broad brush, and making a lot of generalizations that I’m not comfortable with. I’m not trying to argue with you, just showing an alternative viewpoint. And I completely agree with this: “The real effect of anti-abortion laws would not fall most heavily on these families, not only because they can afford to soften the financial blow, but because quiet doctor's office procedures will always be available to the wealthy who want them, even after the clinics who serve poor women are closed. ” I'm sorry if I offended you. The brush I'm using is the one from my own experience, which seems to apply in this case because the school has been described as an elite, wealthy school. Where I grew up there were two kinds of Catholic schools: the regular parochial schools, which were less expensive and did give scholarships to lots of lower income kids, and the elite, gender-segregated prep schools, which were very expensive and generally only offered scholarships to those needed to strengthen their sports teams. That was where rich families sent their kids to keep them away from the riffraff. I believe Covington to be the second type of school based on what I've read. That's the only basis for my generalizations. No worries, I’m not offended. 😄. I understand everything you have said, and I agree with it to a point. Just pointing out that there is some variability among the private schools. Thank you for explaining where your opinion comes from! It makes sense to me. (I hope that sentence makes sense, I just finally got to eat today and I’m still feeling a little bit shaky).
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 23, 2019 19:12:56 GMT
Racist or not (I'm not going to even go there right now), they were disrespectful, ignorant, and intolerant- with all the jeering and heckling- of someone else's religion and form of prayer. But somehow, now THE KIDS are the ones who have been wronged by the media in all this? Give me a break. and it looks like the provocative caption re: "MAGA loser gleefully bothering Native American protester" was for some reason tweeted by a Twitter user named @2020fight, who is a Trump supporter? sowing divisiveness and chaos... Putin and the Russians are probably continuing to congratulate themselves on their victory with the continuing disinformation campaigns that are going on here in the US. And the 2020 election season is barely even underway. That Twitter account, and it’s associated blog were both suspended/deactivated. 🤔 m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c4757b8e4b027c3bbc609b4/amp
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Post by Merge on Jan 23, 2019 19:22:03 GMT
I'm sorry if I offended you. The brush I'm using is the one from my own experience, which seems to apply in this case because the school has been described as an elite, wealthy school. Where I grew up there were two kinds of Catholic schools: the regular parochial schools, which were less expensive and did give scholarships to lots of lower income kids, and the elite, gender-segregated prep schools, which were very expensive and generally only offered scholarships to those needed to strengthen their sports teams. That was where rich families sent their kids to keep them away from the riffraff. I believe Covington to be the second type of school based on what I've read. That's the only basis for my generalizations. You are describing me. LOL. Well, you are describing what some people assumed about me and assumed about my parents’ income and motivations, but that’s grist for a whole ‘nother thread. With the additional information that I am also both pro-choice and irretrievably Catholic-lapsed, I still really need help understanding your criticism of a Catholic school sending students to a pro-life march. Why wouldn’t they? Doctrinally, no matter what the income level of their various student bodies, the Church is resolutely pro-life, which extends to capital punishment, euthanasia, immigration, poverty and healthcare. There are just as many arguments to be made about a paucity of student experience with any of those issues, not just with the various desperations that can accompany unwanted pregnancy. (For example, when my Jesuit university organized anti-death penalty activism, the families of the victims of the condemned could also decry our inexperience, but I would hope they wouldn’t automatically assume brainwashing.) Despite several serious misgivings about my own education, I remain thankful that all three orders of nuns and priests who taught me (especially the Jesuits) hammered in the idea that educational and economic privilege is always accompanied by a responsibility to social justice activism. My atheist daughter, who recently graduated from a Jesuit university, also experienced that continuing ethos. That said, I think these boys acted like complete idiots or silent followers. I have argued here that the trip chaperones should have allowed neither the partisan shenanigans nor the behavior. (And I’m not at all surprised that a Catholic priest argued exactly the same in the op-ed upthread.) And I absolutely knew some boys like this growing up (to be fair, along with some much more admirable classmates). But I can’t at all agree that the clear, and probably chronic, failures of this school include pro-life advocacy. (I also can’t begin to assume how many families from the Catholic high schools we’re both describing would easily abandon that theology if their own daughters became pregnant. Well, I know anecdotal stuff, but that’s also another thread...) The pro-life advocacy is a fault only insofar as I believe that the kids are largely ignorant of the issues surrounding the argument, and many are lured with the promise of a fun trip to DC just to make the numbers greater at the march. Also, many of these families are advocating taking a right away from others that they do not intend to give up themselves. I also have an issue with the fact that the church benefits from tax exemptions that allow them the funds to try to impact political policy. It's not my experience that Catholics who take a hard line on abortion, to the point that they support Trump because they think he's pro-life, are also much interested in social justice issues or our social safety net. Though the church teaches those things, far-right Catholics ignore them. In the interest of full disclosure, I was raised in the church and considered myself Catholic until the age of 34. I went to Catholic schools for my elementary years. I was confirmed at 14 and spent all of high school in my church's youth group, where I also met and got to know the kids whose parents sent them to the elite prep schools. I was active in the Catholic Youth/Newman Center in college and worked as a volunteer promoting Natural Family Planning (the church-sponsored method of family planning) to engaged couples in my 20s. I was a choir director and cantor in one of the largest and wealthiest parishes in Houston. I'm not just making stuff up based on media coverage. I lived that life and walked that walk, and don't think my estimations of the political vs. personal morality of the Covington folks are far off base.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 23, 2019 19:45:50 GMT
I still really need help understanding your criticism of a Catholic school sending students to a pro-life march. Why wouldn’t they? There is no reason why they cannot attend/sent to a PRO-LIFE march! They also need to know what pro-life truly means. Pro-life is ALL life, you cannot choose which life is sacred. Pro-life = ALL life. Respect/care for rich, poor, black, white, brown, disabled, immigrant, citizen, your beliefs or not........ Learn what pro-life really means! I have said it here before, until people reevaluate themselves, many are just Pro-BIRTH, because they care nothing about caring for/raising a baby or assisting those who might need help, they don't care about children having enough food to eat, seeing a doctor and the list goes on. They don't care if a family falls on hard times and needs financial assistance, if a parent/s dies needing even more help. I know one particular man’s family (he’s actually a local politician) decided to pay off the girl to keep the whole thing quiet so that this guys political dreams didn’t get squandered. I find that particular story to be incredibly slimy. But all of that happens in the public school systems too. It’s not solely happening in the private/religious schools. I'm from the era of back alley butchers, knew people who died for lack of funds. Lack of good medical care for all issues. Where girls were sent away to visit an Aunt for a year, losing a year of school too. And I completely agree with this: “The real effect of anti-abortion laws would not fall most heavily on these families, not only because they can afford to soften the financial blow, but because quiet doctor's office procedures will always be available to the wealthy who want them, even after the clinics who serve poor women are closed. I also knew who went for a 'D&C' because so and so's father was a doctor! I know some who flew to other countries for 'procedures'. I could name names but it is far too long ago, no need for that exposure! And the boys went on with their lives with no cares in the world! (I am sure there were some boys and their families who took the situations seriously and felt great pain and wanted to do the best) This was within a very well respected public high school/town.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 23, 2019 19:51:19 GMT
IMO, wearing MAGA clothing is similar to displaying a confederate flag or other racist items. I don't know if dog whistle is the right term for this situation, but they chose to wear the hats for the reason. They are in support of Trump and his policies that are consistent with racist, sexist views. And they want people to know it. People DO take note of that. Agreed!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 23, 2019 19:55:24 GMT
which is good, don't get me wrong- but the damage from the post's provocative caption has already been done. and continues to happen.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 23, 2019 20:22:01 GMT
which is good, don't get me wrong- but the damage from the post's provocative caption has already been done. and continues to happen. Yeah, I posted that to show there was even some uncertainty over happening that, too. I too, had read it was a pro Trump account, but that article says differently. Russian bots are about whatever will stir the most unrest. They play both sides of the fence, to that end. It’s quite disturbing.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 23, 2019 20:28:01 GMT
...maybe I had it backwards. Thanks, sassyangel , for posting the HuffPo article (now that I've read it- I didn't realize at first that it was actually a different article than the one I already read.) At first, the CNN story made it sound like the user was a pro-Trump person, but maybe I had it wrong, and they actually were left-leaning. Either way, posting / re-posting such inflammatory (and seemingly unsubstantiated, now) content is irresponsible, and feeds into the issues of disinformation and divisiveness. It is disturbing-- and it seems like we (the collective *we* as well as the social media companies themselves) haven't learned ANY lessons from what happened in 2016. Or at least we're learning them way too slowly to make a difference.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 23, 2019 21:15:55 GMT
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 5:22:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 1:34:41 GMT
I'm not assigning the odd statement from one kid in an 8 second video with no other context to ALL of the boys. You don't know what he's responding to or why. Considering what the Black Hebrew Israelites were saying to the students, it could have been a sarcastic response to some of the hateful things those Black Hebrew Israelites were spewing at the Native Americans and then the students. Very likely the case, but with only 8 seconds of video clipped just to highlight what the student said, it doesn't back up the case against the students. I also can't help but think that the picture of black painted bodies, much like the picture of Prince William flipping off reporters is not actually what is happening. I find it hard to believe that the school would allow them even in the sporting event, much less front and center, if they were in actual blackface. I think it might be more a case of a spirit day like the blue out theme, the nerd theme, the businessman theme, the blackout theme, the white out theme, among others that they showed. It's indisputably clear when you look at Prince William that he's flipping off the reporters. Except, oops! When you get the rest of the story (a different angle of Prince William) you see that isn't the case. Just like when we see the entire video vs. the conveniently edited clip, we see that the Native American, Nathan Phillips's claim that they approached and surrounded him is a flat out lie. What is his agenda? That wasn't in the video with the girls. Those were two different videos. Then let’s address your statement regarding “it’s more of a them school spirit type of thing” regarding the students being proud and thinking it’s okay for black face. The photo shows them in black face. And you are white washing it to being something else. BLACK FSCE US NEVER OKAY. It’s not funny. It’s offensive. It’s racist. Peas keep pointing out all these offensive instances WITH THIS SAME school—videos, previous student experiences , the priest from the diocese saying they were wrong—-and you continue to gloss over, make excuses for them—-this is exactly what’s wrong today—not holding certain people accountable for their actions. They were not in black face any more than Prince William was flipping off photographers. They were painted completely black for the blackout theme, just like they were painted completely white for the white out theme and blue for the blue out theme. If you look at their school spirit video you'll see that. Do I think it's a good idea? No. It just doesn't seem they were trying to be black people and mock them. Too much evidence that doesn't support that theory.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 5:22:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 2:04:20 GMT
Yes, I think it would have. If the kids hadn't been wearing MAGA hats the response wouldn't have been to ignore the adults part in this and "yes, but" the kids into being threatened with violence and actually terrorizing a kid and his family who weren't even there. I disagree. I didn’t even notice the maga hats when I first saw all this stuff go down. Those who keep insisting that they are being persecuted for their political view/maga hats are just gaslighting the narrative to paint them as innocent victims. It’s gross and appalling. I'm not sure how you didn't notice they were wearing MAGA hats. The thread title mentions them, every single news story is titled with the word MAGA hat, it tells you they were wearing them in the OP of this thread and it's a big topic of conversation over and over again in this thread. What's so gross and appalling is how many viral videos and actual news stories we have seen where someone is harassed, threatened, physically assaulted, rudely denied service, or hatefully judged based on nothing more than wearing a MAGA hat. You not noticing them wearing the MAGA hats doesn't change the target they've become.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 5:22:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 2:19:48 GMT
That wasn't in the video with the girls. Those were two different videos. So...that makes the statement less disgusting? How would you have felt if someone jokingly threatened rape? Make no mistake - that wasn't the first time that little jerk uttered that in an attempt to silence a woman. And you defend it. I wonder what you'd be saying if this was a group of young black men harassing caucasians. I never defended attempting to silence women with it. You'll get farther in a discussion with me if you don't put words in my mouth. What I said is (word for word) you don't know what he's responding to or why. Considering what the Black Hebrew Israelites were saying to the students, it could have been a sarcastic response to some of the hateful things those Black Hebrew Israelites were spewing at the Native Americans and then the students. Very likely the case, but with only 8 seconds of video clipped just to highlight what the student said, it doesn't back up the case against the students. TLDR: I don't agree with him using the statement in any way, but there's not a shred of context to make a decision on how he was using it.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 24, 2019 2:33:16 GMT
And she just keeps on white washing away.
People like shhfzas is exactly why we are saddled and suffering with trump.
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Post by carly1030 on Jan 24, 2019 2:43:23 GMT
This thread is about some teenagers who were wearing MAGA hats, that’s the “terror” of it all. The first part was poor Indian Vietnam vet (who now they are doubting he ever did) treated badly......again MAGA HATS.
Second part people are not the least bit worried over the black people running their mouths.
Serious question here, Do you tell your white male sons they are shit and as a white man you should bow out and let anybody but you take charge? I think you should get them to run around with your pussy hat on. I must be a little different I like a manly man, I don’t want a pussy that’s so scared he has to run to me.
How about the girl that has been in a persistent vegetative state for years and the *trigger warning* black man rapes her. Damn that just seems a whole lot worse situation.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jan 24, 2019 3:02:45 GMT
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Post by mustlovecats on Jan 24, 2019 3:06:57 GMT
Then let’s address your statement regarding “it’s more of a them school spirit type of thing” regarding the students being proud and thinking it’s okay for black face. The photo shows them in black face. And you are white washing it to being something else. BLACK FSCE US NEVER OKAY. It’s not funny. It’s offensive. It’s racist. Peas keep pointing out all these offensive instances WITH THIS SAME school—videos, previous student experiences , the priest from the diocese saying they were wrong—-and you continue to gloss over, make excuses for them—-this is exactly what’s wrong today—not holding certain people accountable for their actions. They were not in black face any more than Prince William was flipping off photographers. They were painted completely black for the blackout theme, just like they were painted completely white for the white out theme and blue for the blue out theme. If you look at their school spirit video you'll see that. Do I think it's a good idea? No. It just doesn't seem they were trying to be black people and mock them. Too much evidence that doesn't support that theory. Not correct. Go back and look at it again. There are two boys painted black in the screen cap here. look at the one on the right who has eyes and mouth painted in like little black sambo. Super super duper racist right there. m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c472a2de4b0a8dbe1752db5
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jan 24, 2019 3:20:59 GMT
This thread is about some teenagers who were wearing MAGA hats, that’s the “terror” of it all. The first part was poor Indian Vietnam vet (who now they are doubting he ever did) treated badly......again MAGA HATS. Second part people are not the least bit worried over the black people running their mouths. Serious question here, Do you tell your white male sons they are shit and as a white man you should bow out and let anybody but you take charge? I think you should get them to run around with your pussy hat on. I must be a little different I like a manly man, I don’t want a pussy that’s so scared he has to run to me. How about the girl that has been in a persistent vegetative state for years and the *trigger warning* black man rapes her. Damn that just seems a whole lot worse situation. I am a Mexican American woman, married to a white man. Mother to two boys who look exactly like their father. People often assume I'm the nanny because, in my area, the Hispanic ladies with the white kids usually *are* the nanny. My sons are learning to be good humans. Learning to be themselves. Learning to stand up for those who are weaker than they are. Learning to respect their bodies and the bodies of others. They are learning to be proud of their heritage - Dutch, Czech, Mexican and Native American. My husband is a good human. A loving, respectful partner and an amazing father. And he is "manly" and sexy as hell. Masculinity doesn't have to mean one walks around screaming "pussy" at other men.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 24, 2019 3:21:11 GMT
Not correct. Go back and look at it again. There are two boys painted black in the screen cap here. look at the one on the right who has eyes and mouth painted in like little black sambo. Super super duper racist right there. m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c472a2de4b0a8dbe1752db5The picture is still there, but the video is not available.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 24, 2019 3:27:59 GMT
This thread is about some teenagers who were wearing MAGA hats, that’s the “terror” of it all. The first part was poor Indian Vietnam vet (who now they are doubting he ever did) treated badly......again MAGA HATS. Second part people are not the least bit worried over the black people running their mouths. Serious question here, Do you tell your white male sons they are shit and as a white man you should bow out and let anybody but you take charge? I think you should get them to run around with your pussy hat on. I must be a little different I like a manly man, I don’t want a pussy that’s so scared he has to run to me. How about the girl that has been in a persistent vegetative state for years and the *trigger warning* black man rapes her. Damn that just seems a whole lot worse situation. I don't think there is any question how people think about the black group that was there (I can't remember the name of the group). They are classified as a hate group and I haven't heard anyone say that they are good people.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 24, 2019 3:41:21 GMT
They were not in black face any more than Prince William was flipping off photographers. They were painted completely black for the blackout theme, just like they were painted completely white for the white out theme and blue for the blue out theme. If you look at their school spirit video you'll see that. Do I think it's a good idea? No. It just doesn't seem they were trying to be black people and mock them. Too much evidence that doesn't support that theory. Not correct. Go back and look at it again. There are two boys painted black in the screen cap here. look at the one on the right who has eyes and mouth painted in like little black sambo. Super super duper racist right there. m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c472a2de4b0a8dbe1752db5Anyone in 2019 that defends any white person spirting black face is beyond help. It’s wrong NO MATTER THE CONTEXT.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 24, 2019 3:43:52 GMT
This thread is about some teenagers who were wearing MAGA hats, that’s the “terror” of it all. The first part was poor Indian Vietnam vet (who now they are doubting he ever did) treated badly......again MAGA HATS. Second part people are not the least bit worried over the black people running their mouths. Serious question here, Do you tell your white male sons they are shit and as a white man you should bow out and let anybody but you take charge? I think you should get them to run around with your pussy hat on. I must be a little different I like a manly man, I don’t want a pussy that’s so scared he has to run to me. How about the girl that has been in a persistent vegetative state for years and the *trigger warning* black man rapes her. Damn that just seems a whole lot worse situation. You clearly don’t have your facts straight and you’re ranting on like an idiot.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 5:22:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 4:00:06 GMT
This thread is about some teenagers who were wearing MAGA hats, that’s the “terror” of it all. The first part was poor Indian Vietnam vet (who now they are doubting he ever did) treated badly......again MAGA HATS. Second part people are not the least bit worried over the black people running their mouths. Serious question here, Do you tell your white male sons they are shit and as a white man you should bow out and let anybody but you take charge? I think you should get them to run around with your pussy hat on. I must be a little different I like a manly man, I don’t want a pussy that’s so scared he has to run to me. How about the girl that has been in a persistent vegetative state for years and the *trigger warning* black man rapes her. Damn that just seems a whole lot worse situation. All the drama. Like trump serving the football team cold hamburgers, this has less to do with politics and more about the lack of respect for others. What you have is a group of boys all full of themselves. Or as my dad would say, thinking they were a big deal. What they did was show a lack of respect to another person’s customs/beliefs. Look at the photo of the kid standing next Nathan Phillips. The smirk on his face. His buddies in the background laughing. Then you have the video of the same group of boys heckling the girls as they walk by. Lack of respect for others that I lay at the feet of their parents and how they raised them. Now if you want defend their behavior that is your choice. But the reality is, they are nothing but a bunch of punks. And they have their parents to thank for that.
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Post by dewryce on Jan 24, 2019 5:45:48 GMT
Let's start with the black face and white clown lips. You only have to go about 20 seconds in to see the video evidence of the photos that have been posted everywhere. Here's another video of one of those kind, sympathetic, upstanding young men in DC yelling "it's not rape if you enjoy it." I'm not assigning the odd statement from one kid in an 8 second video with no other context to ALL of the boys. You don't know what he's responding to or why. Considering what the Black Hebrew Israelites were saying to the students, it could have been a sarcastic response to some of the hateful things those Black Hebrew Israelites were spewing at the Native Americans and then the students. Very likely the case, but with only 8 seconds of video clipped just to highlight what the student said, it doesn't back up the case against the students. I also can't help but think that the picture of black painted bodies, much like the picture of Prince William flipping off reporters is not actually what is happening. I find it hard to believe that the school would allow them even in the sporting event, much less front and center, if they were in actual blackface. I think it might be more a case of a spirit day like the blue out theme, the nerd theme, the businessman theme, the blackout theme, the white out theme, among others that they showed. It's indisputably clear when you look at Prince William that he's flipping off the reporters. Except, oops! When you get the rest of the story (a different angle of Prince William) you see that isn't the case. Just like when we see the entire video vs. the conveniently edited clip, we see that the Native American, Nathan Phillips's claim that they approached and surrounded him is a flat out lie. What is his agenda? From page 6 of this thread, look at the boy on the lower right hand corner with the white on his lips and eyes. That is blackface. It’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
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Post by mom26 on Jan 24, 2019 5:56:36 GMT
Wow. The hate in here based on bits and pieces of unverified information is....sadly typical.
Humans are stupid and never, ever learn a damn thing.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 24, 2019 11:09:16 GMT
The pro-life advocacy is a fault only insofar as I believe that the kids are largely ignorant of the issues surrounding the argument, and many are lured with the promise of a fun trip to DC just to make the numbers greater at the march. Also, many of these families are advocating taking a right away from others that they do not intend to give up themselves. I also have an issue with the fact that the church benefits from tax exemptions that allow them the funds to try to impact political policy. It's not my experience that Catholics who take a hard line on abortion, to the point that they support Trump because they think he's pro-life, are also much interested in social justice issues or our social safety net. Though the church teaches those things, far-right Catholics ignore them. In the interest of full disclosure, I was raised in the church and considered myself Catholic until the age of 34. I went to Catholic schools for my elementary years. I was confirmed at 14 and spent all of high school in my church's youth group, where I also met and got to know the kids whose parents sent them to the elite prep schools. I was active in the Catholic Youth/Newman Center in college and worked as a volunteer promoting Natural Family Planning (the church-sponsored method of family planning) to engaged couples in my 20s. I was a choir director and cantor in one of the largest and wealthiest parishes in Houston. I'm not just making stuff up based on media coverage. I lived that life and walked that walk, and don't think my estimations of the political vs. personal morality of the Covington folks are far off base. You know, I honestly have no idea if the families at this school want to take away a right from others but don’t intend to give up the right themselves. Nor do I know if they are only interested in social justice as it pertains to abortion. I also wonder if the families interested in paying for this rally trip could me more emblematic of those conclusions than all the other families at the school. But I just don’t know. Yes, perhaps you have more Catholic cred to your walk-the-walk-walking, but personally, I am digesting your certitude from the perspective of being from a family who, at the least, made a similar educational choice as yours, but I’m also digesting as a mother who actually recently sent her daughter through Catholic university. So her present best friends - mostly upper middle class and mostly from Catholic high schools across the country - would be included in this pool of folks whose personal moral compasses are undergoing our exegesis. I don’t intend this as passive-aggressive as it may sound, but I’m now thinking I need to examine how that educational decision could reflect on both her and me. I had never considered that, which is sobering. To complicate things, in my world of vastandverydeepBlue, I can count on one thumb the Catholics I personally know who voted for Donald Trump. My husband’s sister, an ex-nun who works for the Church, is both staunchly pro-life and staunchly pro-Hillary, but I also know scores of less vivid examples of Catholic Never Trump-ers. So my inexperience with Catholic one-issue voters adds to my reluctance/uncertainty/whatever. [I do know something. Well, I can make an educated guess. My guess is that the high school in question, whether it qualified for their tax exempt status on their own standing or through their association with the diocese, probably does not spend the requisite “substantial” efforts on political lobbying (defined differently than political campaigning) that would jeopardize their tax status.)]
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 24, 2019 11:12:46 GMT
Wow. The hate in here based on bits and pieces of unverified information is....sadly typical. Humans are stupid and never, ever learn a damn thing. I would agree that humans often make the same mistakes. I would disagree that, when discussing this specific event, the only examples of hate would be people who spread unverified information.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 24, 2019 11:32:19 GMT
This thread is about some teenagers who were wearing MAGA hats, that’s the “terror” of it all. The first part was poor Indian Vietnam vet (who now they are doubting he ever did) treated badly......again MAGA HATS. Second part people are not the least bit worried over the black people running their mouths. Serious question here, Do you tell your white male sons they are shit and as a white man you should bow out and let anybody but you take charge? I think you should get them to run around with your pussy hat on. I must be a little different I like a manly man, I don’t want a pussy that’s so scared he has to run to me. How about the girl that has been in a persistent vegetative state for years and the *trigger warning* black man rapes her. Damn that just seems a whole lot worse situation. This is some toxic white fragility. I am going to bump my book thread from the fall. I think we need a new group of people to read.
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Post by teach4u on Jan 24, 2019 11:49:01 GMT
It’s amazing that some profess to revere Dr. Martin Luth King Jr, while making presumptions and labeling whites terrorists and hate mongers. You don’t know these kids but you claim to know their type. And in your mind stereotyping and profiling white nen is perfectly fine because if they aren’t guilty now, they must be somewhere else. I don’t think you can judge the content of character based on a hat. Unless it’s ok to justify by the clothing, sign, message you support. Many here would crucify these kids on the basis of being Catholic.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 24, 2019 11:58:06 GMT
It’s amazing that some profess to revere Dr. Martin Luth King Jr, while making presumptions and labeling whites terrorists and hate mongers. You don’t know these kids but you claim to know their type. And in your mind stereotyping and profiling white nen is perfectly fine because if they aren’t guilty now, they must be somewhere else. I don’t think you can judge the content of character based on a hat. Unless it’s ok to justify by the clothing, sign, message you support. Many here would crucify these kids on the basis of being Catholic. (bold mine...and a bold statement...) Considering I’m the one playing Kinda’ Catholic Apologist here, I’m stunned that you read this thread and came to that conclusion. “Many”??
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Post by Merge on Jan 24, 2019 12:02:35 GMT
The pro-life advocacy is a fault only insofar as I believe that the kids are largely ignorant of the issues surrounding the argument, and many are lured with the promise of a fun trip to DC just to make the numbers greater at the march. Also, many of these families are advocating taking a right away from others that they do not intend to give up themselves. I also have an issue with the fact that the church benefits from tax exemptions that allow them the funds to try to impact political policy. It's not my experience that Catholics who take a hard line on abortion, to the point that they support Trump because they think he's pro-life, are also much interested in social justice issues or our social safety net. Though the church teaches those things, far-right Catholics ignore them. In the interest of full disclosure, I was raised in the church and considered myself Catholic until the age of 34. I went to Catholic schools for my elementary years. I was confirmed at 14 and spent all of high school in my church's youth group, where I also met and got to know the kids whose parents sent them to the elite prep schools. I was active in the Catholic Youth/Newman Center in college and worked as a volunteer promoting Natural Family Planning (the church-sponsored method of family planning) to engaged couples in my 20s. I was a choir director and cantor in one of the largest and wealthiest parishes in Houston. I'm not just making stuff up based on media coverage. I lived that life and walked that walk, and don't think my estimations of the political vs. personal morality of the Covington folks are far off base. You know, I honestly have no idea if the families at this school want to take away a right from others but don’t intend to give up the right themselves. Nor do I know if they are only interested in social justice as it pertains to abortion. I also wonder if the families interested in paying for this rally trip could me more emblematic of those conclusions than all the other families at the school. But I just don’t know. Yes, perhaps you have more Catholic cred to your walk-the-walk-walking, but personally, I am digesting your certitude from the perspective of being from a family who, at the least, made a similar educational choice as yours, but I’m also digesting as a mother who actually recently sent her daughter through Catholic university. So her present best friends - mostly upper middle class and mostly from Catholic high schools across the country - would be included in this pool of folks whose personal moral compasses are undergoing our exegesis. I don’t intend this as passive-aggressive as it may sound, but I’m now thinking I need to examine how that educational decision could reflect on both her and me. I had never considered that, which is sobering. To complicate things, in my world of vastandverydeepBlue, I can count on one thumb the Catholics I personally know who voted for Donald Trump. My husband’s sister, an ex-nun who works for the Church, is both staunchly pro-life and staunchly pro-Hillary, but I also know scores of less vivid examples of Catholic Never Trump-ers. So my inexperience with Catholic one-issue voters adds to my reluctance/uncertainty/whatever. [I do know something. Well, I can make an educated guess. My guess is that the high school in question, whether it qualified for their tax exempt status on their own standing or through their association with the diocese, probably does not spend the requisite “substantial” efforts on political lobbying (defined differently than political campaigning) that would jeopardize their tax status.)] I'm glad you don't know many Catholic one-issue voters. My family in the Midwest is filled with them and there are plenty of them here in Texas. Twitter is positively crawling with them. I'm basing my estimation that the Covington folks are not much interested in social justice issues on that experience and on the fact that so many of their sons are willing to walk around in a MAGA hat. I would not choose to send my daughter to a Catholic university; however, my family generally considered them bastions of evil Catholic liberalism, so YMMV. It seems our experiences with the church and the folks in it has been vastly different. Both experiences are valid. We should probably just leave it at that.
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