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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 2, 2019 20:18:34 GMT
This opinion will probably piss some Peas off but I cannot stand those women who stand silently by their asshole husband during a press conference dealing with the husband's lying and trying to wiggle out of whatever mess they've gotten themselves into. I am afraid if my husband screwed up he'd be dealing with that without me standing like a fool beside him at a press conference. I’m right there with you!!! I’d be making him come clean and supporting that he make amends.
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 2, 2019 20:21:18 GMT
He is so stupid that he doesn't even understand that dressing up and imitating Michael Jackson is not a problem. Smearing his stupid face with black shoe polish IS A PROBLEM.
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 2, 2019 20:24:03 GMT
This opinion will probably piss some Peas off but I cannot stand those women who stand silently by their asshole husband during a press conference dealing with the husband's lying and trying to wiggle out of whatever mess they've gotten themselves into. I am afraid if my husband screwed up he'd be dealing with that without me standing like a fool beside him at a press conference. Yep. I’d stand there by his side supporting him if he was admitting to his errors and sincerely apologizing and making amends for them. But not lying and making excuses; that’s not the man I married and I couldn’t support that. Or if he was stepping down in shame.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2019 20:31:50 GMT
How do you completely backflip like that? Yesterday it was all "I'm sorry" and today its "I'm not sure it was me"? I was thinking it was quite likely he'd evolved in his thinking in 30 years. Perhaps not.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,544
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Feb 2, 2019 20:36:41 GMT
Yeah, this is super messy. He needs to stop making excuses and step down. For some reason it’s reminding me of that guy who wasn’t sure of...anything...Kavanaugh...☹️ I wonder if he has his old calendars to prove he didn't do it?
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 2, 2019 20:40:59 GMT
For some reason it’s reminding me of that guy who wasn’t sure of...anything...Kavanaugh...☹️ I wonder if he has his old calendars to prove he didn't do it? 😂🤣
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Post by chances on Feb 2, 2019 21:24:31 GMT
Exactly! Wtf? How many photos like this are there that you can't keep track?
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 2, 2019 21:26:12 GMT
I have to think that between the black face stuff, the Me Too movement and catching people who committed crimes years ago with dna, there must be a lot of people out there shaking in their boots waiting to be outed.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 2, 2019 21:52:13 GMT
Our governors are all short-lived - 1 term only is allowed. Northam took office in January of 2018, so hasn’t had a lot of time to have an impact on the state. That first year is often ground-laying. And I’ll admit to paying more attention the Shit-Show in the White House this past year than to our own state legislature. So, this new info honestly hasn’t changed my opinion of anything he has done while in office. So disappointing that he should resign now - he will have left behind a legacy of nothing but this incident. Thank you, Elaine.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 2, 2019 22:04:11 GMT
Yes. I agree with this exactly. I was in college in the 80s and I knew this kind of stuff was beyond abhorrent. In the late 80s/early 90s when Ted Danson was dating Whoopi Goldberg and he went blackface, it was scandalous and I haven't been able to look at him since. Gov. Northam is my governor. Yes, I do think he should resign over this. Just like my favorite senator - Al Franken - resigned when it came to light his disgusting behavior with women. It makes me sad, because these men are also doing good and do way more good than their Republican counterparts are, but it is so unbelievably abhorrent to me that an adult of 25 or 26 (he was born in 1959) was so racist and ugly that he did this. As MissJen says, if he had come out before being elected or in the 90s and said "OMG - I cannot believe that I did things like this in the 80s and I am humiliated beyond belief and look at all the things I have done as a result of learning from that abhorrent episode" I would be behind him 100%. Like Beto with his drunk driving. He took responsibility and is making changes from it. Northam did not and only apologized when it came to light. Thank you. To be fair here, though, George W Bush stopped drinking in 1986, long before he was governor of Texas or president of the country. He was mocked throughout his time in office for it.
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Post by elaine on Feb 2, 2019 22:46:43 GMT
Our governors are all short-lived - 1 term only is allowed. Northam took office in January of 2018, so hasn’t had a lot of time to have an impact on the state. That first year is often ground-laying. And I’ll admit to paying more attention the Shit-Show in the White House this past year than to our own state legislature. So, this new info honestly hasn’t changed my opinion of anything he has done while in office. So disappointing that he should resign now - he will have left behind a legacy of nothing but this incident. Thank you, Elaine. You’re welcome. And my personal apologies for voting for someone who is turning out to be such a deplorable human being. His decision to about-face and double down is almost as reprehensible as the original photos. Northam needs to resign now. (And should have earlier today)
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 2, 2019 22:48:49 GMT
I honestly cannot for the life of me grasp that pro-birthers believe that pro-choicers are in some way pro-abortion and support it like it's some kind of happy go lucky decision or merely a flippant lifestyle choice. Do they really think so little of us, that we're so inhumane and cruel? There is no critical thinking whatsoever, no self-reflection, no attempt to even reconcile who we are as people and that we might have a different philosophy about what constitutes life. We are just bloodthirsty baby-murderers to them. It is rabid and irrational and not a good look for them. Could that belief came from the SHOUT YOUR ABORTION movement? The campaign where woman were telling their stories of using abortion as a form of birth control? Not all, but enough to paint a picture. The campaign that celebrities endorsed and participated in. Celebrities with loud voices and big platforms? It really did change the narrative from "safe, legal and rare" to "safe, legal, and here for my convenience". That could be where the belief "that pro-choicers are in some way pro-abortion and support it like it's some kind of happy go lucky decision or merely a flippant lifestyle choice" came from. From pro-choicers themselves. That's not to debate abortion, it's only in answer to your confusion as to why anyone would think that. From what I have seen on Facebook, I think it comes from the lack of ability to think critically about a situation, and falling for extremist memes and fake videos that don't give context at all. Many have no ability to think that there is any reason to have an abortion than being an immoral, baby killing woman who just decided on a whim that she didn't want to be pregnant. Even when presented with facts and scenarios, they refuse to see it. It seems that Trump supporters, anti-vaxxers and anti-abortionists have the same mentality and the same ability to find the most ridiculous things to share on Facebook.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2019 22:58:45 GMT
You’re welcome. And my personal apologies for voting for someone who is turning out to be such a deplorable human being. His decision to about-face and double down is almost as reprehensible as the original photos. Northam needs to resign now. (And should have earlier today) I understand why you want to apologize, but we all know if you had of known about this when it would've made a difference - you wouldn't have voted for him. I'm sorry he hasn't proven himself deserving of your vote, though. That's a crying shame.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 2, 2019 23:08:32 GMT
I know for certain, I wasn't and don't have to think about it. How about you? I know for certain I have never dressed in blackface nor dressed ala KKK. I also know that I have never been so wasted as to have done so and not remembered it. And why am I so certain? There may just be a photo of someone in blackface in my high school yearbook, and that's no lie. We did a takeoff of SNL complete with commercials and someone was Aunt Jemima (as in the syrup). There was also a Gay Ben for Ben Gay. There wasn't much tolerance for differences in that time and place, and I took off as soon as I was able. Probably part of why I resent being told now by some of these same people how evil other people's beliefs are. Stones, glass houses, and all that.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 2, 2019 23:20:15 GMT
And my personal apologies for voting for someone who is turning out to be such a deplorable human being. His decision to about-face and double down is almost as reprehensible as the original photos. I understand why you want to apologize, but we all know if you had of known about this when it would've made a difference - you wouldn't have voted for him. Yeah, I don't think that's a fair judgement on yourself, Elaine. One more question: Is he deplorable now because he said it was him then he said it wasn't him? (Not a question that his action was deplorable then.) Would it be different (for you) if when the photo had come out, he stepped up and said something like, "Yes, that was me. It is incomprehensible to me now how I ever thought that was OK or in any way funny. I have worked for the past 35 years to overcome my mindset and I hope I have proved myself this past year serving as your governor." ?
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 2, 2019 23:26:25 GMT
And my personal apologies for voting for someone who is turning out to be such a deplorable human being. His decision to about-face and double down is almost as reprehensible as the original photos. I understand why you want to apologize, but we all know if you had of known about this when it would've made a difference - you wouldn't have voted for him. Yeah, I don't think that's a fair judgement on yourself, Elaine. One more question: Is he deplorable now because he said it was him then he said it wasn't him? (Not a question that his action was deplorable then.) Would it be different (for you) if when the photo had come out, he stepped up and said something like, "Yes, that was me. It is incomprehensible to me now how I ever thought that was OK or in any way funny. I have worked for the past 35 years to overcome my mindset and I hope I have proved myself this past year serving as your governor." ? He should step down either way, but he’s revealing himself to be far worse than displayed in that image by the way he is handling the situation. He’s done.
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 23:46:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 23:28:13 GMT
Could that belief came from the SHOUT YOUR ABORTION movement? The campaign where woman were telling their stories of using abortion as a form of birth control? Not all, but enough to paint a picture. The campaign that celebrities endorsed and participated in. Celebrities with loud voices and big platforms? It really did change the narrative from "safe, legal and rare" to "safe, legal, and here for my convenience". That could be where the belief "that pro-choicers are in some way pro-abortion and support it like it's some kind of happy go lucky decision or merely a flippant lifestyle choice" came from. From pro-choicers themselves. That's not to debate abortion, it's only in answer to your confusion as to why anyone would think that. That's certainly one reading of the Shout Your Abortion hashtag. Another would be to destigmatize the choices women make to control their own destiny, just like men have been able to do for always. Rarely is it to do with mere "convenience." We should all consider why it's so important to the right to use this wedge issue to demonize women, without giving any consideration to the real reasons why women have abortions. Why the lack of nuance in your understanding? I think everyone knows there are real and valid medical reasons to have abortions, but to deny that there are too many who use them as birth control is not reality. When the reasons don't matter, arent we making that acceptable to use it as birth control? Thats not demonizing women, that's wondering why we've moved from "safe, legal and rare" to "the reasons don't matter" knowing that encourages it as a form of birth control.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 2, 2019 23:29:02 GMT
How do you back track from this to “it wasn’t me” and expect anyone to believe you? Pick a lane and stick to it here! He did it. He didn't do it. He sounds like a drunk weaving all over the road. "I'm your governor. Follow me." - Good luck with that.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 2, 2019 23:31:38 GMT
He should step down either way, but he’s revealing himself to be far worse than displayed in that image by the way he is handling the situation. He’s done. Thank you. I really do appreciate the responses.
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Post by Merge on Feb 2, 2019 23:38:12 GMT
That's certainly one reading of the Shout Your Abortion hashtag. Another would be to destigmatize the choices women make to control their own destiny, just like men have been able to do for always. Rarely is it to do with mere "convenience." We should all consider why it's so important to the right to use this wedge issue to demonize women, without giving any consideration to the real reasons why women have abortions. Why the lack of nuance in your understanding? I think everyone knows there are real and valid medical reasons to have abortions, but to deny that there are too many who use them as birth control is not reality. When the reasons don't matter, arent we making that acceptable to use it as birth control? Thats not demonizing women, that's wondering why we've moved from "safe, legal and rare" to "the reasons don't matter" knowing that encourages it as a form of birth control. No, I think we're acknowledging that it's not the state's job to decide if a woman's reasons are valid. If we accept that women must be overseen in these very personal decisions by some authority, often male, then I do think we're demonizing women. Safe, legal and rare is still the ideal - but in order to achieve rare, we're going to have to confront the real reasons women have abortions instead of dismissing most of them as heartless whores who just couldn't be bothered with a baby.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,544
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Feb 2, 2019 23:42:49 GMT
That's certainly one reading of the Shout Your Abortion hashtag. Another would be to destigmatize the choices women make to control their own destiny, just like men have been able to do for always. Rarely is it to do with mere "convenience." We should all consider why it's so important to the right to use this wedge issue to demonize women, without giving any consideration to the real reasons why women have abortions. Why the lack of nuance in your understanding? I think everyone knows there are real and valid medical reasons to have abortions, but to deny that there are too many who use them as birth control is not reality. When the reasons don't matter, arent we making that acceptable to use it as birth control? Thats not demonizing women, that's wondering why we've moved from "safe, legal and rare" to "the reasons don't matter" knowing that encourages it as a form of birth control.Yes, I am sure there are those who use it as a form of birth control. But do you think the women who use it as birth control are the ones who are having those late term abortions?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 23:46:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 0:09:02 GMT
I think everyone knows there are real and valid medical reasons to have abortions, but to deny that there are too many who use them as birth control is not reality. When the reasons don't matter, arent we making that acceptable to use it as birth control? Thats not demonizing women, that's wondering why we've moved from "safe, legal and rare" to "the reasons don't matter" knowing that encourages it as a form of birth control. No, I think we're acknowledging that it's not the state's job to decide if a woman's reasons are valid. If we accept that women must be overseen in these very personal decisions by some authority, often male, then I do think we're demonizing women. Safe, legal and rare is still the ideal - but in order to achieve rare, we're going to have to confront the real reasons women have abortions instead of dismissing most of them as heartless whores who just couldn't be bothered with a baby. I'm not talking about the state deciding for women, I think it's for a woman and her doctor to decide. I'm talking about when and why the argument for abortion changed from "rare" to "it doesn't matter why". Because when that becomes the narrative, the number of "abortion as birth control" will rise even more.
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Post by mustlovecats on Feb 3, 2019 0:09:41 GMT
That's certainly one reading of the Shout Your Abortion hashtag. Another would be to destigmatize the choices women make to control their own destiny, just like men have been able to do for always. Rarely is it to do with mere "convenience." We should all consider why it's so important to the right to use this wedge issue to demonize women, without giving any consideration to the real reasons why women have abortions. Why the lack of nuance in your understanding? I think everyone knows there are real and valid medical reasons to have abortions, but to deny that there are too many who use them as birth control is not reality. When the reasons don't matter, arent we making that acceptable to use it as birth control? Thats not demonizing women, that's wondering why we've moved from "safe, legal and rare" to "the reasons don't matter" knowing that encourages it as a form of birth control. I think the “using it as birth control” argument is a little disingenuous to be honest. If a woman is pregnant and needs or wants not to be, and elects to terminate the pregnancy, what is that other than birth control? I don’t think it’s necessary to apologize for being in favor of safe, legal abortion full stop. I believe that women and their families and doctors are able to determine when terminating a pregnancy is right for them, I think it’s not my place or anyone else’s to put restrictions or conditions on that such as “using it as birth control” or anything else. If a woman and her doctor have agreed on a protocol then that is good enough for me. Abortion rates have been falling and reached a post-Roe low in 2017. I don’t think the narrative matters, I think the availability of birth control matters.
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Post by elaine on Feb 3, 2019 0:51:58 GMT
And my personal apologies for voting for someone who is turning out to be such a deplorable human being. His decision to about-face and double down is almost as reprehensible as the original photos. I understand why you want to apologize, but we all know if you had of known about this when it would've made a difference - you wouldn't have voted for him. Yeah, I don't think that's a fair judgement on yourself, Elaine. One more question: Is he deplorable now because he said it was him then he said it wasn't him? (Not a question that his action was deplorable then.) Would it be different (for you) if when the photo had come out, he stepped up and said something like, "Yes, that was me. It is incomprehensible to me now how I ever thought that was OK or in any way funny. I have worked for the past 35 years to overcome my mindset and I hope I have proved myself this past year serving as your governor." ? Yes, he is deplorable now because he won’t own up, apologize, say something like you penned and also add to it “I realize now that I won’t be able to engender the trust necessary to forge the relationships needed to effectively govern our commonwealth, and I am stepping down and will turn the office over to my lieutenant governor to finish my term. His news conference was just so horrific to watch. That his wife had to reign him in in terms of appropriate behavior was mortifying. I expect that behavior from Uncle Jim and Aunt Sharon at a Thanksgiving get together, with Sharon kicking Jim under the table as he tells an inappropriate story. To see it on display from our governor and his wife in front of news cameras was depressing as heck. What is wrong with people?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 3, 2019 1:36:56 GMT
I'm talking about when and why the argument for abortion changed from "rare" to "it doesn't matter why". Because when that becomes the narrative, the number of "abortion as birth control" will rise even more. Abortion rates have been falling and reached a post-Roe low in 2017. I don’t think the narrative matters, I think the availability of birth control matters. Access to effective and affordable/free birth control should become the norm.
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 23:46:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 3:17:38 GMT
I think everyone knows there are real and valid medical reasons to have abortions, but to deny that there are too many who use them as birth control is not reality. When the reasons don't matter, arent we making that acceptable to use it as birth control? Thats not demonizing women, that's wondering why we've moved from "safe, legal and rare" to "the reasons don't matter" knowing that encourages it as a form of birth control. I think the “using it as birth control” argument is a little disingenuous to be honest. If a woman is pregnant and needs or wants not to be, and elects to terminate the pregnancy, what is that other than birth control?
I don’t think it’s necessary to apologize for being in favor of safe, legal abortion full stop. I believe that women and their families and doctors are able to determine when terminating a pregnancy is right for them, I think it’s not my place or anyone else’s to put restrictions or conditions on that such as “using it as birth control” or anything else. If a woman and her doctor have agreed on a protocol then that is good enough for me. Abortion rates have been falling and reached a post-Roe low in 2017. I don’t think the narrative matters, I think the availability of birth control matters. What seems disingenuous is spinning it so that a medical need for an abortion is on the same level as couldn't be bothered to do anything to prevent a pregnancy I didn't want. Even your last sentence contradicts your spin, as it differentiates between the 2. Abortion is not birth control, shouldn't be used in that way and we generally all used to be in agreement with that. Now we're encouraged to flaunt it and be proud of choosing it even if you DO use it irresponsibly. (yes, I know, not all unwanted pregnancies are from lack of prevention, but it's the ones that are that I take issue with putting them on the same level as a medical need for one)
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Post by mustlovecats on Feb 3, 2019 3:27:46 GMT
I think the “using it as birth control” argument is a little disingenuous to be honest. If a woman is pregnant and needs or wants not to be, and elects to terminate the pregnancy, what is that other than birth control?
I don’t think it’s necessary to apologize for being in favor of safe, legal abortion full stop. I believe that women and their families and doctors are able to determine when terminating a pregnancy is right for them, I think it’s not my place or anyone else’s to put restrictions or conditions on that such as “using it as birth control” or anything else. If a woman and her doctor have agreed on a protocol then that is good enough for me. Abortion rates have been falling and reached a post-Roe low in 2017. I don’t think the narrative matters, I think the availability of birth control matters. What seems disingenuous is spinning it so that a medical need for an abortion is on the same level as couldn't be bothered to do anything to prevent a pregnancy I didn't want. Even your last sentence contradicts your spin, as it differentiates between the 2. Abortion is not birth control, shouldn't be used in that way and we generally all used to be in agreement with that. Now we're encouraged to flaunt it and be proud of choosing it even if you DO use it irresponsibly. (yes, I know, not all unwanted pregnancies are from lack of prevention, but it's the ones that are that I take issue with putting them on the same level as a medical need for one) I think an unwanted pregnancy is every bit as valid a reason to get an abortion as a life threatening pregnancy complication or fetal anomaly is.
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 3, 2019 3:29:51 GMT
Now this thread has become about abortion, too?
Man.
I guess anything to avoid talking about racism. Or is it that too many people agreed that the governor should resign, so a new fight was needed?
Just... gross.
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Post by elaine on Feb 3, 2019 3:40:18 GMT
Now this thread has become about abortion, too? Man. I guess anything to avoid talking about racism. Or is it that too many people agreed that the governor should resign, so a new fight was needed?Just... gross. It is that in a nutshell. Rabid conservatives wanted a battle about Northam. So sad and deflated that the liberals agreed with them that they had to dig around and pull another rabbit out of their hat at random. “I know, let’s make this about abortion! Which has nothing to do with the racist pictures or the fuck-show of a press conference, but is a topic that always draws out the frothing at the mouth conservatives and will get the pea bat phone ringing.”
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 3, 2019 3:42:27 GMT
Now this thread has become about abortion, too? Man. I guess anything to avoid talking about racism. Or is it that too many people agreed that the governor should resign, so a new fight was needed?Just... gross. It is that in a nutshell. Rabid conservatives wanted a battle about Northam. So sad and deflated that the liberals agreed with them that they had to dig around and pull another rabbit out of their hat at random. “I know, let’s make this about abortion! Which has nothing to do with the racist pictures or the fuck-show of a press conference, but is a topic that always draws out the frothing at the mouth conservatives and will get the pea bat phone ringing.” Ugh. Well, thanks for being here and showing up making sense, even with all you have going on.
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