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Post by jenb72 on Apr 11, 2019 13:49:04 GMT
Because of what you’ve shared on here in the past I’m going to ask a very blunt question. Is your husband ever able to be just your husband or has he been relegated to mostly being your primary caregiver? I’m in no way excusing his behavior, but it may be time for some counseling. This. My DH saw this happen with his parents. I also have to agree with the above posters that noted that your DH's comments about wishing he would have ended up with her and being afraid that you'd embarrass him are extremely disrespectful to you and while the past me might have put up with them, current me certainly wouldn't. You don't deserve to be with someone who isn't 100% committed to being with you. Trust your gut. Don't let him make you feel like your feelings are invalid. Jen
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Post by quinlove on Apr 11, 2019 14:09:19 GMT
This situation reminds me of a saying
If you are deciding between me and another person ~ pick the other one.
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,421
Jun 26, 2014 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by luvnlifelady on Apr 11, 2019 15:16:41 GMT
Ok, I don't keep a spreadsheet so can I please ask some background questions? Your dh quit his job to move with you cross country? Is he working now or did he retire? Where do this lady live in relation to you all now? Are you closer or farther apart? Thank you. I get why you're asking location but in affairs of the heart, that means little. BTDT. I hope the OP gets her situation figured out. Doesn't sound good IMO.
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PaperAngel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,320
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Apr 11, 2019 15:23:11 GMT
Without any background knowledge of this poster, I'm going to be the lone dissenter. Context is everything. Your husband disclosed that he once regarded this woman as perfect, yet he's been married twice & never to her. You're interpreting the old letter from the viewpoint of the woman wants your husband; rather, she could mean fate led us to our ideal mates, after we thought we'd end up together. Your husband recalls a specific incident in which your behavior embarrassed him in front of one of the male friends/family. It seems he's honestly communicating with you. Rather than make assumptions, I suggest you reciprocate & tell him that being excluded from his plans is hurtful & has raised your suspicions, you are jealous of the woman & concerned about them spending time alone together, etc.
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peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,588
Jun 25, 2014 22:18:04 GMT
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Post by peabrain on Apr 11, 2019 15:51:02 GMT
Without any background knowledge of this poster, I'm going to be the lone dissenter. Context is everything. Your husband disclosed that he once regarded this woman as perfect, yet he's been married twice & never to her. You're interpreting the old letter from the viewpoint of the woman wants your husband; rather, she could mean fate led us to our ideal mates, after we thought we'd end up together. Your husband recalls a specific incident in which your behavior embarrassed him in front of one of the male friends/family. It seems he's honestly communicating with you. Rather than make assumptions, I suggest you reciprocate & tell him that being excluded from his plans is hurtful & has raised your suspicions, you are jealous of the woman & concerned about them spending time alone together, etc. I'm not sitting on either bench just yet. I think his actions have spoken a lot. I believe he quit his job so she could move many states away due to her illness. They sold the house ... I'm assuming he is able to live on his own? She says she is not. So, he could have cut bait at any time. He has made considerable sacrifices for her, no? And I agree, I think zella should have an open and honest conversation with him about finding the note or they aren't going to get anywhere about this.
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 11, 2019 16:55:51 GMT
He has made considerable sacrifices for her, no? Yes. There's no way anyone here who does not even know these people can know this man's thoughts or intentions. We can't know how he feels about his wife or his old friend. We only know that he has been going to considerable effort to take care of Zella and moved her, at her request, across the country. I'm willing to comment on particular comments made between the couple that I think point to things that should be addressed by the two of them, but I won't make assumptions about the rest.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Apr 11, 2019 19:07:30 GMT
I feel like I say this all the time regarding the OP - but I sure would love to hear her Dh's story sometime. I'm guessing it would shed a klieg light on this increasingly bizarre situation.
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Post by friendly on Apr 11, 2019 20:42:05 GMT
I feel like I say this all the time regarding the OP - but I sure would love to hear her Dh's story sometime. I'm guessing it would shed a klieg light on this increasingly bizarre situation. THIS so much!
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Post by christine58 on Apr 11, 2019 22:54:42 GMT
I believe he quit his job so she could move many states away due to her illness. They sold the house ... He worked from home and is still with the same company. He did not quit his job.
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mlana
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,523
Jun 27, 2014 19:58:15 GMT
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Post by mlana on Apr 12, 2019 0:30:42 GMT
Ok, I'm going to be honest here.
My DH has a chronic illness and I'm his caretaker. I can see, to some extent, where your husband is coming from.
Even before he had a stroke or developed CKD, DH had a tendency to monopolize the conversation in a group or to totally tune out any conversation that didn't interest him. We fought about it a lot earlier in our marriage. I don't know if he did it because he was nervous or because he was used to getting paid to talk or because he thought people wanted to hear his great wisdom, but it drove me crazy. We finally developed a discreet signal that I could give him and he would wind up whatever story he was telling and then try not to talk for at least 10 minutes. We didn't have a crazy busy social life, but we'd go out once in a while with friends. His behavior got worse over the years.
A couple of years before his stroke, we went on a cruise and sat at a big table with a group of strangers and our DD. DH would NOT shut up. Anytime someone made a remark, he would jump on it and go into excruciating detail about something they had just said. If someone said they were a doctor, he started explaining all the schooling, training and problems being a doctor required. Everyone's eyes glazed over and we all sat very quietly trying not to set him off again. When we got back to the room, I made him check his blood sugar, but he was fine. DD and I tried to explain what he had done, but he wouldn't listen. He saw it as he had been interacting wonderfully with the table and we had been antisocial.
The next night I asked him to take his blood sugar before we went to dinner; it was fine. He did the same thing again. When I gave him our signal, he just glowered at me and started talking super fast. No one could get a word in edge wise. I know my face was bright red the entire night. As you can imagine, we had a fight when we got back to the room. In his eyes, he had been embarrassed because I had tried to shut him up. He really couldn't see what he had done wrong. I didn't go back to the dining room the rest of the cruise. I just refused to be that embarrassed again. DD went with him the next night and there were only 2 couples at the table. When DH got started, DD excused herself and left.
So, here's the point of this story.
There were many times before and after this that DH embarrassed me with this behavior. This is the one episode that really stands out, though, and it is the one I think HE remembers best. When he asks why we don't meet our friends for dinner anymore, I remind him of this event. Not because it's the only time, but because it's the one he remembers best and because he can't deny that other people reacted negatively to his rambling. Zella, maybe your DH is using the episode he thinks you will remember best to explain how you embarrassed him. Yes, it was caused by low blood sugar, but it was embarrassing nonetheless. If you're not in control of your blood sugar and if this happens frequently, I can see why he wouldn't want to be in public with you, Brutal, I know, but not unreasonable in my opinion.
I love my husband, usually anyway, but I still don't want to try to visit with friends with him. He refused to acknowledge any social cues before his stroke (he saw them, he just didn't want to stop being the center of attention) and now that he's had a stroke, he's got to where he will interrupt me frequently. We've made him aware of what he is doing, but he refuses to stop. He only does it to me, so I know he can control it. He doesn't see where it's really an issue; I do. This is my line in the sand - if you interrupt me at home, you'll interrupt me in public and I am not going to be embarrassed in that way in public. At home I stop talking, wait for him to finish, and then ask very snarkily if I have his permission to finish my story - I don't want to do that in public.
Maybe your husband is just a bastard who deliberately hurt you...or maybe he's someone who sees something that you don't see. You can get angry and hurt at him and maybe that's justified. But maybe he's really trying to be honest with you. Are there things you do at home that you don't think you'd do in public, but maybe he thinks you would out of habit? Are there things he has to help you with in caring for your illness that you do casually at home but could be embarrassing if done in public? I've known people who are used to handling certain issues a particular way at home and they've goofed and bared something in public before they thought about it.
I don't mean to be nasty and I wouldn't hurt you for anything, Zella. As the caretaker for someone with a chronic illness, maybe I'm seeing this from his side. Sometimes it's just really...wonderful... to get away from the person you are responsible for, even though you love them, and just be YOU for a change. Maybe he wants to g see his friends from way back when and just remember who he used to be, back when the only person he had to be responsible for was himself. It's easy to think someone is your ideal when you aren't living with them or even being around them frequently. Yeah, he was stupid to say it, if he actually said those words, but one meeting in how many years makes such a statement almost funny, when you think about it. Anybody can be ideal once every how many years?
Tomorrow I'm going to a plant sale that my DH has asked me to wait and go to on Saturday with him. He can't walk very much, very far or very fast. He doesn't like plants or gardening. He won't like that it's outside and will bother his allergies and make him sweat. But he wants to go, just because it's better than staying at home. I'm going to be selfish and go just for me. I want to dawdle and look at every plant. I want to ask questions and not have to listen while DH tells the plant person about how to grow plants or talks about my garden that DH prefers not to go in, but makes everyone think he works in it. For just a little while, while he's at work, I want to just think about what I want. I'll come back home sweaty and sun touched with my eyes streaming from my allergies, with a few new herbs and plants for my garden and some words of wisdom from a gardener who knew something I didn't. I'll feel like me again, and I'll be more grounded and better able to deal with his needs and, frankly, his bullshit.
Let him go. Send him off with a kiss and a pat on the ass. Let him enjoy being HIM for a weekend. You'll both be better for it.
Marcy
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 12, 2024 3:09:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 1:07:31 GMT
Ok, I'm going to be honest here. My DH has a chronic illness and I'm his caretaker. Marcy, that was well written.
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psiluvu
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,217
Location: Canada's Capital
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:26 GMT
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Post by psiluvu on Apr 12, 2019 1:13:35 GMT
mlana you are a very wise woman. Lots for Zella to think about in your post.
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 12, 2019 1:22:49 GMT
Thanks for sharing your perspective, mlana.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 3:09:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 3:28:47 GMT
UPDATE: Sorry not ignoring you all. Yesterday (Thursday) I had to drive into Tampa proper to take DD to a drs appointment. Whole thing took much of the day. Then I was very ill when I got home. Today I've just been busy (Friday). Hubby and I have worked things out. Will try to post Saturday. Did you ever update Zella?
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Post by jackietex on Apr 23, 2019 3:41:56 GMT
UPDATE: Sorry not ignoring you all. Yesterday (Thursday) I had to drive into Tampa proper to take DD to a drs appointment. Whole thing took much of the day. Then I was very ill when I got home. Today I've just been busy (Friday). Hubby and I have worked things out. Will try to post Saturday. Did you ever update Zella? Updated here Update from Zella on hubby and kumquat situation
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,421
Jun 26, 2014 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by luvnlifelady on Apr 23, 2019 12:36:48 GMT
I'm glad you have remedied this situation although I'm still wondering if he is going or not. Maybe I'm using my own experience too much, but there still seems to be an under-current of issues with you guys. Sounds like he has the attitude of "I'll do what I want" because of the type of relationship you have with you reliant on him for your health needs and such.
I might be reaching and I hope I don't offend you.
I hope things are on the upswing with your relationship and your health.
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 23, 2019 22:09:55 GMT
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 23, 2019 22:30:09 GMT
I have a question that I hope doesn't upset you... What therapies have you done past and present for your social anxiety? It is never okay for a spouse to say you embarrass me BUT if you are fully aware that your actions cause hesitation when it comes to your dh inviting you YOU should make the changes. Not place blame everywhere else. You said in another thread that you struggle with social interactions. Have you ever done therapies to help with those scenarios? Maybe look at the changes you can make that can have a positive affect on your self and your marriage. Also I would talk with an SSDI Medical type lawyer as well as reach out to disability organizations in your area to see what your options are. Have you ever tried to get an in home nurse covered? Even for partial day? To give your dh a break and let him just be a husband? Not everyone is suited to be a full time care giver. Its hard. Your dh is not only a husband but nurse, financial person, does everything. I am sure he is overwhelmed and frustrated and unfortunately takes it out on you. I think there is a lot of deep stuff going on not just the surface we see. But I think you need to look at other options. Spouse support. Increasing ssdi. Other income options. I felt like your thoughtful questions deserved answers. So here goes. I've done counseling. Mixed types, primarily behavioral/cognitive, I'd say. Before we left Washington I was in counseling for maybe 2 years. It hasn't helped much with my social anxiety. We worked a LOT on my feelings about my mother. And some on my marriage stuff and my health. If you saw me on a good day, you wouldn't know I was chronically ill. And I do have good days. Even on mediocre days, like today, I don't need to be looked after, I just can't do much. It's only on the really bad days hubby has to actually do any caregiving for me. I am trying right now to get weekly nurse visits set up for changing my IV dressing; it should have started by now but for some reason I've been having a heck of a time getting things going. Not for lack of trying. Had two more phone calls today, so hopefully that will be in place in the next week. I still do 90% of the housework. It just doesn't get done as often as I'd like. I cook dinner for him about once a week, which isn't much, I know, but when I can I do. I don't think I qualify for SSDI. I'm on the other kind of disability, but as I think I said, it's only $600 a month. There is a lot of other stuff. He's not a bad person, but he does very thoughtless and even cruel things. I wonder, though, if that's what he saw his Dad do. I only knew his Dad when he was old and pretty mellow. But he was Austrian (didn't move to Canada until he was in his early 30's), and very authoritarian. He also held views that are antithetical to those held by both DH and myself (he was anti-Semitic, for example). I don't know, but I suspect he treated his wife similarly to how DH treats me. I know it's not an excuse, but it helps me understand him. I've been married twice before this. First time we were just very young (19 and 20) and weren't suited for each other. We remain very friendly and text or speak to each other a couple times a year. The second time my ex was a complete psycopath. He ruined my older daughter's life in many ways. So my track record isn't good. And compared to the psycho, being with DH is easy. I wish I was stronger. I wish I was well. I wish I could work. But I'm dealing with reality, here. And I do have many good days with DH. And I do believe he loves me, it's just that his way of showing love isn't my way, and he can be incredibly thoughtless.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 23, 2019 22:42:26 GMT
Ok, I don't keep a spreadsheet so can I please ask some background questions? Your dh quit his job to move with you cross country? Is he working now or did he retire? Where do this lady live in relation to you all now? Are you closer or farther apart? Thank you. LOL, I don't keep a spreadsheet either, so I know just what you mean! DH actually still works 12 hours a week for the company in Seattle. He wanted to retire from software development to concentrate on trading. He was intending to completely quit the job, but they persuaded him to work these hours from wherever he happened to be. He wanted to move somewhere sunny and warm; he'd had enough of the Washington winters. My health was part of the equation, but this was something we'd been talking about for a couple of years. He works on his trading primarily early in the morning, and when the markets first open. He works for the company M,W,F in the afternoon to early evening. Jane lives outside of Toronto, as do his two daughters from his first marriage. We're closer to Toronto than we were in Seattle, but still not close.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 23, 2019 23:28:53 GMT
mlana: thank you. Your post was enlightening, thoughtful and kind. I really appreciate the time you took to write out all that. Thank you. I'm going to try and answer questions, make some clarifications, from a bunch of posts. The note I found was with a bunch of memorabilia. I keep all of it as I scrapbook. When I was unpacking, I found the note. DH says he doesn't remember it at all, and I do believe him. He doesn't hang on to stuff deliberately, he's just really bad at throwing stuff out (not a hoarder, but a pack rat). I worry about managing without him for a week, which is how long he'll be gone. Though I've done it before, even since I've been ill. Truth is, unless I have to go to the hospital, I can take care of my own needs. But I have anaphylaxis episodes, and they are very very scary. He is good at helping me calm down when those happen. Also I have had episodes when I needed to use my Epi pens, and haven't done so, because my thinking gets so muddled I don't know what to do. Having someone else around at those times is so helpful. It's atypical anaphylaxis in case any of you are wondering, so not cut and dried and obvious. My daughter will be here, though. And I'll talk to her before he leaves so she knows when to tell me to use my Epi pen. My social anxiety is very minimal around the two male friends he'll be visiting. I like them both a lot. I've never met Jane. I'd like to because she's part of his history. I'd never say anything that would embarrass him. DH even admitted that the restaurant time is the only time I've embarrassed him, so no, this isn't a pattern or anything. I don't get along with his adult daughters, but if I'd gone with him I would have just stayed at the hotel when he went to visit them. DH says he didn't ask me to go because I have said many times I'm too sick to fly. Fair point. I have come to hate flying, and although I now have meds to better control things, it's not an easy thing for me to do. But I think that the point that he needs a break from me is valid. And truth be told, when I'm well I enjoy the break from him too. DH is certainly stressed by my illness, and our DD's too. She is 27 and still lives at home, can't work, can't get disability, and there's no sign of this changing in the near future. But DD is ALWAYS stressed out. Even when everything is going smoothly and there is no reason to worry, he still frets. It's part of his personality. I'm a worrier to some extent, mostly about myself and the DD that lives with us. With most everything else I'm able to say "It'll work out. It'll be okay." Yes, DH could live alone. But the fact is he'd be miserable. He has a very high need for affection. And even though, like me, he's very introverted and has to have alone time, he wants kisses and cuddles from me every single day unless we're REALLY mad at each other. I've been trying very hard, since before we left Washington, to give him more affection. Even if he's pissed me off that day. And today he said something that hurt my feelings, I told him so immediately, and he actually apologized. Not in the defensive way he usually does, a real apology. And we moved on immediately. Now that's progress! I guess there are some people who have easy marriages that last for many years. That just isn't my experience. Not in any marriage in my family (grandparents, parents, sister, daughter), and not for myself. My parents divorced after about 35 years of marriage. Both remarried. After just a couple of years my mom's husband died. My dad got a divorce. My parents ended up getting remarried. But a lot of the time they were together one or both were unhappy and/or cheating on each other. So I have zero good examples to look to, unfortunately. I do think fighting (verbal not physical) is normal in any long relationship. Some people are better than others at doing it in a way that doesn't cause permanent harm. DH isn't good at that. I'm better than him, but still not great. I have studied non-violent communication a bit, and I do try to use it, but if we're in a heated argument, all bets are off. I don't believe DH feels he's stuck with me. I'll ask him later (he's currently watching a movie with DD). If I'm wrong, I'll let you know. He needs me in a different way to how I need him. But he does need me. He's not an easy man to live with. I think he knows that. And I think, deep down, he knows that we both put up with a lot. I want to say thank you again for all of the kind and supportive words that so many of you shared with me. And even those whose responses were a bit more barbed, I appreciate your comments. Thank you!
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Post by Legacy Girl on Apr 24, 2019 4:29:40 GMT
Zella, I've read all the replies, and I don't know that anyone has mentioned this specifically, but I have to wonder if your DH is not experiencing depression. I know that when I'm depressed, I cannot see possibilities. When people propose solutions, I can always tell them why those solutions are not workable, etc. So, that could be the reason why he's not open to counseling -- perhaps figuring that nothing will ever change, what's the point, etc. The responsibility of care-giving cannot be easy for him, and it does sound like he has done things to ensure that you are happy (moving, etc.). This gives me hope for your situation. I just think he may be overwhelmed and struggling with his own mental health. It doesn't make his unkind comments acceptable, but it could help you to understand that he is coming from a place where he cannot see things clearly, nor does he think his challenging life can improve. I'm not sure what the solution is, since he won't seek counseling himself, but perhaps he could ask his doctor to evaluate his mental health and attempt to find solutions that way.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Apr 24, 2019 6:35:12 GMT
Having read this thread in its entirety, and trying to say this gently, it reads as if he is viewed by you solely as a carer, and not as a partner, lover, soulmate etc. Carers need time off, and they also need to feel appreciated. Let him have his time away, to recharge his batteries. Can you get someone to stay with you while he is away?
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