Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 21:43:19 GMT
But it's reported he won't sign it...??!! Schoolboy Games. Always games. If someone mandates you write a letter, you WRITE A LETTER. A letter includes a signature as we all learn in about grade 3.
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 4:49:53 GMT
Good summary:https://www.vox.com/2019/10/21/20924771/brexit-news-explained-boris-johnson-parliament-withdrawal-bill-act
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 2:36:14 GMT
Brexit daily: With just nine days to go before Britain's scheduled departure date from the EU, Johnson also won, in a separate vote, backing in principle from lawmakers for the Brexit withdrawal deal he struck with the bloc's leaders last week. "We should not overlook the significance of this moment," Johnson said of that parliamentary victory, something that eluded his predecessor Theresa May, who resigned after multiple attempts to get her EU exit deal approved by Parliament. Johnson twice failed to force a "straight up-and-down vote" in Parliament on the deal he negotiated with the 27 other EU nations laying out the terms of Britain’s exit. Lawmakers rejected his timetable Tuesday because they want more time to scrutinize the agreement and to make sure that even if they backed Johnson's exit deal, Britain doesn't accidentally crash out of the EU – a risky "no-deal" Brexit – before the necessary legislation is in place to implement it. The impact of a "no-deal" Brexit is difficult to predict, but most experts agree that it would damage Britain's economy and could lead to disarray on its borders and in other key areas where it shares EU infrastructure. A "no-deal" Brexit could mean job losses and the British pound might plummet in value. Passing a bill usually takes weeks or even months and Johnson needs a majority in Parliament to pass it, but his party holds just 288 of the 650 House of Common seats. He won the first vote on support for the deal in principle by 329 to 299 votes. He lost the second vote on the timetable by 322 votes to 308. Some lawmakers abstained.www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/22/brexit-boris-johnson-parliament-eu-deal-votes/4060528002/
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Post by gar on Oct 23, 2019 7:47:15 GMT
And the PM has said that if Brussels agrees to a 3 month extension he will most likely call a general election. BBC
This is a flow chart for what happens next... BBC
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 23, 2019 8:46:17 GMT
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Post by gar on Oct 23, 2019 8:48:00 GMT
A nice bit of light reading with your mid morning coffee 😉
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 23, 2019 8:49:17 GMT
And the PM has said that if Brussels agrees to a 3 month extension he will most likely call a general election. BBC
This is a flow chart for what happens next... BBCA general election is not in his gift though, he needs two thirds of Parliament to agree. Will they, won't they??
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Post by gar on Oct 23, 2019 8:52:03 GMT
And the PM has said that if Brussels agrees to a 3 month extension he will most likely call a general election. BBC
This is a flow chart for what happens next... BBCA general election is not in his gift though, he needs two thirds of Parliament to agree. Will they, won't they?? No, indeed. I honestly don’t know- I would guess at yes but who knows. What do you think?
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 23, 2019 8:52:53 GMT
A nice bit of light reading with your mid morning coffee 😉 It's the least reader friendly document I seen in a long time and since I trust Boris as far as I could throw him I will be happier if a good analysis of the bill is done independently.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 23, 2019 8:56:46 GMT
A general election is not in his gift though, he needs two thirds of Parliament to agree. Will they, won't they?? No, indeed. I honestly don’t know- I would guess at yes but who knows. What do you think? So hard to tell, since it is something Boris wants, the opposition might put it off as long as possible. Who is at the door? Carol singers or canvassers?
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Post by gillyp on Oct 23, 2019 8:57:08 GMT
If you need 122 pages to explain the original 115 pages there is something seriously wrong in your ability to draft a document.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 23, 2019 9:01:24 GMT
If you need 122 pages to explain the original 115 pages there is something seriously wrong in your ability to draft a document. Or you're trying to hide something deep in section (a), paragraph 7, subsection (xii) of another bill
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Post by jennyap on Oct 23, 2019 9:17:18 GMT
If you need 122 pages to explain the original 115 pages there is something seriously wrong in your ability to draft a document. LOL! In general I'd agree with you, but actually not when it comes to legislation. What goes into the legislation proper has to be very carefully structured and precise, and only what is absolutely necessary can be included. Legalese can also be quite tricky to comprehend unless you're well-versed in it, so explanatory notes are often longer to make it more user friendly - they explain what it means in practice, often giving examples.
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 10:47:14 GMT
A nice bit of light reading with your mid morning coffee 😉 Do you read that quick then gar or are you planning on drinking a lot of coffee
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 10:49:00 GMT
No, indeed. I honestly don’t know- I would guess at yes but who knows. What do you think? So hard to tell, since it is something Boris wants, the opposition might put it off as long as possible. Who is at the door? Carol singers or canvassers? I'll take the carol singers any day over the other silly lot, whoever they are!
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 12:13:38 GMT
Caught a good deal of it yesterday. Can’t say that I am any less confused today!
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Post by fruitysuet on Oct 23, 2019 12:25:22 GMT
Heaven knows what will happen at a General Election.
I've voted Tory for many years, but I can't do that after the whole Brexit debacle (from declaring the referendum, to not campaigning for Remain and through the ensuing chaos). Also, Boris *ugh*.
Corbyn - just a big no from me. He doesn't inspire any sort of confidence or respect whatsoever and I believe the core Labour supporters are likely the ones who voted for Brexit regardless of Labour's (non)stance on the subject.
My own choice will be between Lib/Green Party.
If the Brexit party wins ... I can't comprehend.
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Post by gar on Oct 23, 2019 12:26:52 GMT
A nice bit of light reading with your mid morning coffee 😉 Do you read that quick then gar or are you planning on drinking a lot of coffee That would be a whole lot of coffee!!
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Post by gar on Oct 23, 2019 14:16:50 GMT
Heaven knows what will happen at a General Election. I've voted Tory for many years, but I can't do that after the whole Brexit debacle (from declaring the referendum, to not campaigning for Remain and through the ensuing chaos). Also, Boris *ugh*. Corbyn - just a big no from me. He doesn't inspire any sort of confidence or respect whatsoever and I believe the core Labour supporters are likely the ones who voted for Brexit regardless of Labour's (non)stance on the subject. My own choice will be between Lib/Green Party. If the Brexit party wins ... I can't comprehend. I'm right there with you *sigh*
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 17:08:55 GMT
Heaven knows what will happen at a General Election. I've voted Tory for many years, but I can't do that after the whole Brexit debacle (from declaring the referendum, to not campaigning for Remain and through the ensuing chaos). Also, Boris *ugh*. Corbyn - just a big no from me. He doesn't inspire any sort of confidence or respect whatsoever and I believe the core Labour supporters are likely the ones who voted for Brexit regardless of Labour's (non)stance on the subject. My own choice will be between Lib/Green Party. If the Brexit party wins ... I can't comprehend. That isn't strictly correct. The plan for a referendum was included in the Queen's speech in 2015 and although it was part of the Conservative manifesto in 2015 MP's still got to vote for the bill and they passed it overwhelmingly by 544 - 53 endorsing the principle of holding a referendum. Even Harriet Harman who was the acting leader of the opposition at the time confirmed that the Labour Party supported the plans for a referendum in 2017. The only ones that voted against it was the Scottish National Party. David Cameron has never supported us leaving. He and George Osbourne headed the Britain is Stronger Together campaign with a number of Tory MP's. So I don't agree with the notion that it's all the Conservatives fault for holding the referendum and there were plenty of Tory MP's that campaigned against leaving. The official Governments position was to support the remain campaign but David Cameron did allow Conservative MP's to campaign according to their conscience. These MP's from all parties that are blocking anything and everything now because they don't want to leave should have voted against having a referendum originally and also voted against triggering Article 50 because they didn't have to do that either as the actual results of the referendum are not legally binding, but they did, by a majority of 384.
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Post by fruitysuet on Oct 23, 2019 17:36:35 GMT
Heaven knows what will happen at a General Election. I've voted Tory for many years, but I can't do that after the whole Brexit debacle (from declaring the referendum, to not campaigning for Remain and through the ensuing chaos). Also, Boris *ugh*. Corbyn - just a big no from me. He doesn't inspire any sort of confidence or respect whatsoever and I believe the core Labour supporters are likely the ones who voted for Brexit regardless of Labour's (non)stance on the subject. My own choice will be between Lib/Green Party. If the Brexit party wins ... I can't comprehend. That isn't strictly correct. The plan for a referendum was included in the Queen's speech in 2015 and although it was part of the Conservative manifesto in 2015 MP's still got to vote for the bill and they passed it overwhelmingly by 544 - 53 endorsing the principle of holding a referendum. Even Harriet Harman who was the acting leader of the opposition at the time confirmed that the Labour Party supported the plans for a referendum in 2017. The only ones that voted against it was the Scottish National Party. David Cameron has never supported us leaving. He and George Osbourne headed the Britain is Stronger Together campaign with a number of Tory MP's. So I don't agree with the notion that it's all the Conservatives fault for holding the referendum and there were plenty of Tory MP's that campaigned against leaving. The official Governments position was to support the remain campaign but David Cameron did allow Conservative MP's to campaign according to their conscience. These MP's from all parties that are blocking anything and everything now because they don't want to leave should have voted against having a referendum originally and also voted against triggering Article 50 because they didn't have to do that either as the actual results of the referendum are not legally binding, but they did, by a majority of 384. I probably didn't word it right. The total lack of commitment by the Tories to the Remain campaign was truly frustrating - how they allowed the Brexit claims to go unchallenged particularly. They just didn't put together a viable and vociferous campaign. I don't believe the time for the Referendum was right either. I do, however, lay the blame for the anti Euro sentiments at the door of the media who, hungry for cheap headlines, spent years blowing out of proportion the negative effects of the EU (the banana scenario being one example) over and above the positive aspects of it (a bit like the US media obsession with the Clintons I guess).
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 18:01:30 GMT
That isn't strictly correct. The plan for a referendum was included in the Queen's speech in 2015 and although it was part of the Conservative manifesto in 2015 MP's still got to vote for the bill and they passed it overwhelmingly by 544 - 53 endorsing the principle of holding a referendum. Even Harriet Harman who was the acting leader of the opposition at the time confirmed that the Labour Party supported the plans for a referendum in 2017. The only ones that voted against it was the Scottish National Party. David Cameron has never supported us leaving. He and George Osbourne headed the Britain is Stronger Together campaign with a number of Tory MP's. So I don't agree with the notion that it's all the Conservatives fault for holding the referendum and there were plenty of Tory MP's that campaigned against leaving. The official Governments position was to support the remain campaign but David Cameron did allow Conservative MP's to campaign according to their conscience. These MP's from all parties that are blocking anything and everything now because they don't want to leave should have voted against having a referendum originally and also voted against triggering Article 50 because they didn't have to do that either as the actual results of the referendum are not legally binding, but they did, by a majority of 384. I probably didn't word it right. The total lack of commitment by the Tories to the Remain campaign was truly frustrating - how they allowed the Brexit claims to go unchallenged particularly. They just didn't put together a viable and vociferous campaign. I don't believe the time for the Referendum was right either. I do, however, lay the blame for the anti Euro sentiments at the door of the media who, hungry for cheap headlines, spent years blowing out of proportion the negative effects of the EU (the banana scenario being one example) over and above the positive aspects of it (a bit like the US media obsession with the Clintons I guess). I don't think any of them, all parties, thought they were going to get the result they got to be honest. They were all a bit apathetic and too sure that it was just a procedure and no way were we going to vote leave. Being to sure of themselves, but it backfired on them all. The time to have stopped it was not to have revoked Article 50 but I think some of them were too concerned about the backlash they would have from members of the public in ignoring their wishes.
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 15:17:58 GMT
"Britain’s fight about Brexit is best understood as a civil war over the country’s culture. Remainers believe that important parts of contemporary Britain are in need of serious reform. But they also tend to be in tune with the beliefs of the country’s cultural elite, and to think that its core institutions are worth preserving. By and large, they trust the BBC, think highly of the country’s universities, and believe that Britain’s place in the world—as a medium-size power exerting its influence through multilateral institutions such as NATO and the United Nations—is appropriate. Leavers, by contrast, feel that these institutions have come to be dominated by a left-liberal cultural establishment that looks down on them and sells the country short. They accuse the BBC of having a left-wing bias. They believe that universities serve to indoctrinate their children. And though they are confident that their country could manage on its own, they have grown convinced that most politicians are too timid to help it regain its past grandeur.... Now, Johnson is very much a product of the British establishment that has fallen out of favor. But like Jaroslaw Kaczynski in Poland and Donald Trump in the United States, he has made a name for himself in politics by assailing the pieties of left-liberal orthodoxy. And while the deal he presented to Parliament was little more than May’s hard-won package with copious lipstick smeared on top, the rhetoric he has employed since taking office has been radically different. By unabashedly leaning into populist language and loudly denouncing traditional institutions from Parliament to the Supreme Court, he has shown that he sees Brexit as the beginning, rather than the end, of Britain’s cultural revolution." www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/what-brexit-means-europe/600583/Brexit, like Trump, is a tantrum from a populace who doesn't want to think about the millions of shades of grey. Just black and white easy, wrong answers to difficult problems. IMO.
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Post by gillyp on Oct 24, 2019 18:05:52 GMT
Brexit, like Trump, is a tantrum from a populace who doesn't want to think about the millions of shades of grey. Just black and white easy, wrong answers to difficult problems. IMO. Nail. Head.
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 13:50:27 GMT
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Post by gar on Oct 29, 2019 14:08:46 GMT
Well, yes it looks that way. Not technically been announced yet but we should have a date and confirmation by the end of today. Have to be honest and say I'm not sure what it'll achieve and I did smile at Corbyn's overnight turnabout that suddenly he believes that a no deal Brexit 'has been avoided'.
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Post by gillyp on Oct 29, 2019 14:20:01 GMT
Can you imagine the apathy of the electorate being expected to vote leading up to Christmas?
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Post by gar on Oct 29, 2019 14:27:27 GMT
Can you imagine the apathy of the electorate being expected to vote leading up to Christmas? Indeed. Plus if the weather is bad perhaps older people will struggle to get out to vote...
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Post by gillyp on Oct 29, 2019 16:06:55 GMT
Can you imagine the apathy of the electorate being expected to vote leading up to Christmas? Indeed. Plus if the weather is bad perhaps older people will struggle to get out to vote... Yes although I recall cars from various parties calling to see if anyone needed a lift to get to voting years ago and I think they are available here nowadays. I use a postal vote so provided I can get to a mail box that’s fine.
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Post by gar on Oct 29, 2019 17:19:10 GMT
Indeed. Plus if the weather is bad perhaps older people will struggle to get out to vote... Yes although I recall cars from various parties calling to see if anyone needed a lift to get to voting years ago and I think they are available here nowadays. I use a postal vote so provided I can get to a mail box that’s fine. They’ll be pulling out all the steps this time too for sure!!
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