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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2019 4:04:07 GMT
Whether they believe 100% of what he does is immaterial. Someone voting for Trump puts their support, their true political power, behind his atrocities at the border, not just the parts they believe in or agree with. To me that is being very narrow minded. No one leader is going to be 100% spot on. We going to minimize everything Trump has done and just refer to it as “not 100% spot on?” Seriously? Come on, do better.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 28, 2019 5:07:37 GMT
I find it amusing that most everyone that has commented on my comments assumes I'm a Trump supporter. Shameful for thinking that because I do not support him in the least. I didn't assume that, at all. /shrug I actually recognized your named and assumed you weren't a trump supporter from older threads. Ditto. Was only responding to the "No one leader is going to be 100% spot on." which obviously hit me as disagreeable.
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Post by gar on Sept 28, 2019 6:49:04 GMT
if they vote for trump because they value something like taxes over how people are treated and the many other issues that come with having him in office, that still means that we don’t have the same values In a nutshell.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 18:47:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 7:12:56 GMT
It is obvious this thread into a true political thread, but geez, I don't judge my friends so harshly. just because your friend is one party or the other does not mean they believe 100% of what that party supports or represents. I don't like what either party does on many occasions, but if you are this or that, I'm not dumping you as my friend. The discussion isn't about party policies it's about the character of that political party's leader and some of his administration, together with the people that support him who turn a blind eye to his character. If you believe that Trump and his administration is carrying out traditional Republican policies then what used to be the Republican Party has gone to hell in a hand basket. There's a massive difference in the character of President Bush in comparison to Trump yet they are both Republicans. No doubt most democrats didn't agree with Pres Bush's policies or people like Sen McCain but I'm sure most of them would agree they were both decent human beings.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,649
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Sept 28, 2019 8:18:24 GMT
There’s nothing more obnoxious (to me) than a non-American Trump supporter! 🙄
This week a Facebook friend (and lifelong friend) called Liberals ‘amoral imbeciles’ and now I’m done with her. It was the last straw.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Sept 28, 2019 8:21:42 GMT
“Can a friendship survive differences in politics?”
I sure as hell hope so, otherwise what’s the point?
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Sept 28, 2019 8:59:17 GMT
A couple of years ago. my cousin, and her best friend (from Nursery School, bridesmaids at each other's weddings and godparents to each other's children) stopped speaking, or at least, the friend stopped speaking to my cousin. Cousin tried umpteen times to sort the matter out to no avail. Friend even disinvited cousin and her family from her Silver Wedding celebration. Reason? Bloody Brexit. Cousin is a remainer. Friend is a leaver.
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Post by gar on Sept 28, 2019 9:42:29 GMT
A couple of years ago. my cousin, and her best friend (from Nursery School, bridesmaids at each other's weddings and godparents to each other's children) stopped speaking, or at least, the friend stopped speaking to my cousin. Cousin tried umpteen times to sort the matter out to no avail. Friend even disinvited cousin and her family from her Silver Wedding celebration. Reason? Bloody Brexit. Cousin is a remainer. Friend is a leaver. Oh that seems over the top! What a shame 🙁
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Sept 28, 2019 11:52:33 GMT
A couple of years ago. my cousin, and her best friend (from Nursery School, bridesmaids at each other's weddings and godparents to each other's children) stopped speaking, or at least, the friend stopped speaking to my cousin. Cousin tried umpteen times to sort the matter out to no avail. Friend even disinvited cousin and her family from her Silver Wedding celebration. Reason? Bloody Brexit. Cousin is a remainer. Friend is a leaver. Oh that seems over the top! What a shame 🙁 Not necessarily. If you found out that a leaver friend was a secret racist who is scared of immigrants and wants to “send them all back where they came from,” you wouldn’t be ending the friendship because she’s a leaver. You’d be ending it because you found out your friend was a racist.
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Post by gar on Sept 28, 2019 11:54:30 GMT
Oh that seems over the top! What a shame 🙁 Not necessarily. If you found out that a leaver friend was a secret racist who is scared of immigrants and wants to “send them all back where they came from,” you wouldn’t be ending the friendship because she’s a leaver. You’d be ending it because you found out your friend was a racist. Hmmm, true.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 28, 2019 12:03:54 GMT
A couple of years ago. my cousin, and her best friend (from Nursery School, bridesmaids at each other's weddings and godparents to each other's children) stopped speaking, or at least, the friend stopped speaking to my cousin. Cousin tried umpteen times to sort the matter out to no avail. Friend even disinvited cousin and her family from her Silver Wedding celebration. Reason? Bloody Brexit. Cousin is a remainer. Friend is a leaver. I wonder if it is really that simple. I haven't cut ties with any family or friends simply because they are Republican. However, in the era of Trump, several of them have become more comfortable saying and posting things that show what their true character and beliefs are. THAT is why I have limited interaction with some of them. I would assume there are similar things happening regarding Brexit.
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 28, 2019 12:09:21 GMT
I lost one friend, but that was her doing. She got mad that I went to a Democratic fundraiser, and said "I don't even know why we're friends." Me either. 🤷♀️Bye
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,633
Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Sept 28, 2019 12:50:09 GMT
If a friend says something like “I believe our government is too bloated and wasteful and I’d like to see what John The Republican Senatorial Candidate can do about that” then I likely wouldn’t bat an eye. If they say “I want abortion to be illegal in this country and will only vote for candidates that will work toward that end” then I’m probably not going to continue to put much work into that relationship. I’m a woman and a mother of two daughters and I don’t think I want to be friends with someone who feels that way.
The idea that every friendship should last forever no matter what doesn’t resonate with me. Potential friends aren’t in limited supply.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 28, 2019 14:25:18 GMT
Oh that seems over the top! What a shame 🙁 Not necessarily. If you found out that a leaver friend was a secret racist who is scared of immigrants and wants to “send them all back where they came from,” you wouldn’t be ending the friendship because she’s a leaver. You’d be ending it because you found out your friend was a racist. Exactly. It's no longer your on the surface "politics", it's who you are as a person and who you are ok with harming. People should always come first, unfortunately things like $$$ and hate often do.
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Post by elaine on Sept 28, 2019 14:44:02 GMT
Yeah, I’m Jewish and if you are a White Supremacist or support them, you threaten me and my children and are absolutely no friend of mine. I’m going to guess you don’t fit into any of the groups targeted by the hates crimes that have skyrocketed since Trump came into office. Do you mean to tell me if a group of people marched down the Main Street of your town carrying torches and chanted calling for the murder of “Snyder’s children” you wouldn’t judge them? You’d invite them into your home so they wouldn’t have to go through the trouble of hunting your children down in their place of worship or when they are back-to-school shopping in Walmart? Because, you know, you wouldn’t want your narrow-minded “political views” to get in the way of your friendship with them. Bullshit. Real people are being harmed by Trump’s administration and not caring because it isn’t you or yours is deplorable. I said extreme and what you described is extreme. But that is exactly what is happening NOW. These “instances” have become the norm under Trump. Why don’t you see that? That these things are transpiring regularly and Trump continues to fire up the hate and distrust of anyone who disagrees or is different from him IS what is happening and what people ARE talking about on this thread. To repeat, the only reason I can fathom that you are so unaware that your supposed extreme is the current daily reality is that you and yours aren’t a target. I, and many others, have been very careful to state things regarding Trump supporters with “if you ...” Not stating that you do support him. If you read it that way, it is on you. Although I’ll add that if you dismiss Trump and his supporters’ blatant racism/sexism/xenophobia as unimportant or “not 100% spot on,” whether you support Trump or not, to me you too are part of the problem. I am assuming, at this point, that you are White, straight, and don’t practice Judaism or Muslimism, because you seem incapable of acknowledging the threats many who belong to these groups feel on a daily basis under Trump’s administration, instead purposefully minimizing the hate culture Trump and his supporters have grown since he came into office. I also completely own those assumptions about your demographics.
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Post by gramasue on Sept 28, 2019 16:18:08 GMT
There’s nothing more obnoxious (to me) than a non-American Trump supporter! 🙄 This week a Facebook friend (and lifelong friend) called Liberals ‘amoral imbeciles’ and now I’m done with her. It was the last straw. I agree, but we do have opinions here in Canada. I have one lifelong friend who likes Trump and my DH has a golfing buddy who also likes Trump. The unspoken rule is simply not to talk about it. They each know our views and neither of them try to change our minds or opinions. Eventually, God willing, Trump will go away but the friendships will last.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,990
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Sept 28, 2019 16:24:07 GMT
I said extreme and what you described is extreme. But that is exactly what is happening NOW. These “instances” have become the norm under Trump. Why don’t you see that? That these things are transpiring regularly and Trump continues to fire up the hate and distrust of anyone who disagrees or is different from him IS what is happening and what people ARE talking about on this thread. To repeat, the only reason I can fathom that you are so unaware that your supposed extreme is the current daily reality is that you and yours aren’t a target. I, and many others, have been very careful to state things regarding Trump supporters with “if you ...” Not stating that you do support him. If you read it that way, it is on you. Although I’ll add that if you dismiss Trump and his supporters’ blatant racism/sexism/xenophobia as unimportant or “not 100% spot on,” whether you support Trump or not, to me you too are part of the problem. I am assuming, at this point, that you are White, straight, and don’t practice Judaism or Muslimism, because you seem incapable of acknowledging the threats many who belong to these groups feel on a daily basis under Trump’s administration, instead purposefully minimizing the hate culture Trump and his supporters have grown since he came into office. I also completely own those assumptions about your demographics. So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 18:47:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 16:37:32 GMT
But that is exactly what is happening NOW. These “instances” have become the norm under Trump. Why don’t you see that? That these things are transpiring regularly and Trump continues to fire up the hate and distrust of anyone who disagrees or is different from him IS what is happening and what people ARE talking about on this thread. To repeat, the only reason I can fathom that you are so unaware that your supposed extreme is the current daily reality is that you and yours aren’t a target. I, and many others, have been very careful to state things regarding Trump supporters with “if you ...” Not stating that you do support him. If you read it that way, it is on you. Although I’ll add that if you dismiss Trump and his supporters’ blatant racism/sexism/xenophobia as unimportant or “not 100% spot on,” whether you support Trump or not, to me you too are part of the problem. I am assuming, at this point, that you are White, straight, and don’t practice Judaism or Muslimism, because you seem incapable of acknowledging the threats many who belong to these groups feel on a daily basis under Trump’s administration, instead purposefully minimizing the hate culture Trump and his supporters have grown since he came into office. I also completely own those assumptions about your demographics. So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. You're deliberately missing the point, it's beyond maddening.
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Post by pierogi on Sept 28, 2019 17:10:56 GMT
So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. You're deliberately missing the point, it's beyond maddening. When people can’t argue in good faith, just end the conversation. They know what they’re doing.
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Post by mustlovecats on Sept 28, 2019 17:42:30 GMT
But that is exactly what is happening NOW. These “instances” have become the norm under Trump. Why don’t you see that? That these things are transpiring regularly and Trump continues to fire up the hate and distrust of anyone who disagrees or is different from him IS what is happening and what people ARE talking about on this thread. To repeat, the only reason I can fathom that you are so unaware that your supposed extreme is the current daily reality is that you and yours aren’t a target. I, and many others, have been very careful to state things regarding Trump supporters with “if you ...” Not stating that you do support him. If you read it that way, it is on you. Although I’ll add that if you dismiss Trump and his supporters’ blatant racism/sexism/xenophobia as unimportant or “not 100% spot on,” whether you support Trump or not, to me you too are part of the problem. I am assuming, at this point, that you are White, straight, and don’t practice Judaism or Muslimism, because you seem incapable of acknowledging the threats many who belong to these groups feel on a daily basis under Trump’s administration, instead purposefully minimizing the hate culture Trump and his supporters have grown since he came into office. I also completely own those assumptions about your demographics. So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. Ive found it harder and harder to look at “both sides” of certain issues as time has gone on. After Trump said there were “very fine people” on “both sides” of the Charlottesville rally, at which people chanted “Jews will not replace us” and other literal Nazi slogans, I realized that at times it is okay not to look at both sides. At times there is right and there is wrong, and I will declare at every opportunity that on certain matters there are not both sides, there is no balanced viewpoint, there is only right and wrong. Certainly at times there are sides to look at, gray areas and places to disagree, and that’s good, but at other times no, I won’t look at both sides. I am always willing to look at where I’m right and where I’m wrong, I like debate and to have my ideas challenged, but sometimes the line is very clear. In other words I can handle disagreement until it runs counter to my absolutes, and then I cannot go any further.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 28, 2019 17:46:23 GMT
I am trying really hard. Really hard. I am trying to even put myself in the position of the accused because I voted third party. I feel partly responsible for what happened. I felt like we had similar values but just disagreed on the way to accomplish them. Some people have put their lack of ethics right on display and I'm having a hard time facing them anymore.
Others I just feel are so very misinformed so I'm doing my best to post on Facebook in a way that is informative instead of provocative. I'm still holding out hope.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 28, 2019 18:56:35 GMT
But that is exactly what is happening NOW. These “instances” have become the norm under Trump. Why don’t you see that? That these things are transpiring regularly and Trump continues to fire up the hate and distrust of anyone who disagrees or is different from him IS what is happening and what people ARE talking about on this thread. To repeat, the only reason I can fathom that you are so unaware that your supposed extreme is the current daily reality is that you and yours aren’t a target. I, and many others, have been very careful to state things regarding Trump supporters with “if you ...” Not stating that you do support him. If you read it that way, it is on you. Although I’ll add that if you dismiss Trump and his supporters’ blatant racism/sexism/xenophobia as unimportant or “not 100% spot on,” whether you support Trump or not, to me you too are part of the problem. I am assuming, at this point, that you are White, straight, and don’t practice Judaism or Muslimism, because you seem incapable of acknowledging the threats many who belong to these groups feel on a daily basis under Trump’s administration, instead purposefully minimizing the hate culture Trump and his supporters have grown since he came into office. I also completely own those assumptions about your demographics. So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. “Both sides” are not doing what trump is doing. So tired of that propaganda/gaslighting phrase. Comparing the trump administration and Congress— Both sides are not going on twitter and deliberately mislead, lying, gaslighting the American public. Both sides are not killing healthcare, nor are both sides out there lying that they’ll keep the pre-existing yet their proposals take it away (what they say and what is written are very different). Both sides are not out the eroding away all the environmental protections and denying science. Both sides have not gone out and made over 12,000 false statements and lies to the world. Both sides have not invited foreign interests in to interfere with our elections. Both sides have not take payments from the NRA to look after their interests, and disregard the interests of the majority of Americans. Both sides are not being transparent. Both sides have not had the turn over rate that the current one has had. Both sides are not demeaning women, migrants, and children...
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Sept 28, 2019 19:22:30 GMT
So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. “Both sides” are not doing what trump is doing. So tired of that propaganda/gaslighting phrase. Comparing the trump administration and Congress— Both sides are not going on twitter and deliberately mislead, lying, gaslighting the American public. Both sides are not killing healthcare, nor are both sides out there lying that they’ll keep the pre-existing yet their proposals take it away (what they say and what is written are very different). Both sides are not out the eroding away all the environmental protections and denying science. Both sides have not gone out and made over 12,000 false statements and lies to the world. Both sides have not invited foreign interests in to interfere with our elections. Both sides have not take payments from the NRA to look after their interests, and disregard the interests of the majority of Americans. Both sides are not being transparent. Both sides have not had the turn over rate that the current one has had. Both sides are not demeaning women, migrants, and children... I think I love you. 💕
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 28, 2019 20:04:34 GMT
There’s nothing more obnoxious (to me) than a non-American Trump supporter! 🙄 This week a Facebook friend (and lifelong friend) called Liberals ‘amoral imbeciles’ and now I’m done with her. It was the last straw. I agree, but we do have opinions here in Canada. I have one lifelong friend who likes Trump and my DH has a golfing buddy who also likes Trump. The unspoken rule is simply not to talk about it. They each know our views and neither of them try to change our minds or opinions. Eventually, God willing, Trump will go away but the friendships will last. Again, I get that wanting to remain friends. BUT would you if the harm was closer to home? If someone you love was a trump target, already been harmed or god forbid killed and your friend still supported trump? Would that end it a friendship? That's the reality for many people. trump isn't just making benign policies, he is destroying lives and as long as it doesn't effect him negatively he doesn't care. period. That's were I lose it. It shouldn't be okay before it literally hits home. ^^^ royal "you"
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,749
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 28, 2019 20:15:27 GMT
So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. for me, no. If they voted for him, uniformed, unaware of his total unkind and uncaring ways that's one thing. Not great but forgivable. If after all this time, seeing what he's done and the people he's hurt, that's another thing. Continuing to support the unkind ways and voting for him again, to me, shows you care not the harm he is and has done to PEOPLE. That's a where we part ways. The "other side" isn't okay with ruining lives like that to get their way. royal use of you, again.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,009
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 28, 2019 20:17:27 GMT
Being apolitical is a a privilege only for those who are not oppressed by our current system, who can live and be comfortable with the status quo. Wow. Cuts right to it, doesn’t it? I’ve never thought about it in those terms, but it’s absolutely true.
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Post by elaine on Sept 28, 2019 21:54:36 GMT
But that is exactly what is happening NOW. These “instances” have become the norm under Trump. Why don’t you see that? That these things are transpiring regularly and Trump continues to fire up the hate and distrust of anyone who disagrees or is different from him IS what is happening and what people ARE talking about on this thread. To repeat, the only reason I can fathom that you are so unaware that your supposed extreme is the current daily reality is that you and yours aren’t a target. I, and many others, have been very careful to state things regarding Trump supporters with “if you ...” Not stating that you do support him. If you read it that way, it is on you. Although I’ll add that if you dismiss Trump and his supporters’ blatant racism/sexism/xenophobia as unimportant or “not 100% spot on,” whether you support Trump or not, to me you too are part of the problem. I am assuming, at this point, that you are White, straight, and don’t practice Judaism or Muslimism, because you seem incapable of acknowledging the threats many who belong to these groups feel on a daily basis under Trump’s administration, instead purposefully minimizing the hate culture Trump and his supporters have grown since he came into office. I also completely own those assumptions about your demographics. So you are saying that anyone that voted for Trump is not worthy of being a friend to anyone, but another person that voted like wise. The people posting here are not looking at both sides. The other side is not 100% spot on either. No, that is not what I am saying. I have tried, repeatedly, using a wealth of thought-out sentences, and you pretend to understand almost none of it. I am done spending time, effort and words to try to discuss it with you anymore since apparently you don’t have any interest in looking at both sides - you have made that crystal clear in your dogged refusal to display a modicum of understanding of what people are saying to you. Quite ironic given that seems to be your main complaint about me and others on this thread.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 18:47:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 22:56:37 GMT
Trump’s response: “There were fine people on both sides.” No condemnation of the Neo-Nazis involved. With all due respect, the facts do not support your bolded statement. We can all talk and try to see the other side's reasoning and come to an understanding, but we have to agree on facts first. The fact is that Trump said "You also had some very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." A few moments later, to make sure there was no misunderstanding, he says "I'm not talking about the Neo-Nazis and white nationalists. They should be condemned totally."
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Post by elaine on Sept 28, 2019 23:08:31 GMT
Trump’s response: “There were fine people on both sides.” No condemnation of the Neo-Nazis involved. With all due respect, the facts do not support your bolded statement. We can all talk and try to see the other side's reasoning and come to an understanding, but we have to agree on facts first. The fact is that Trump said "You also had some very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." A few moments later, to make sure there was no misunderstanding, he says "I'm not talking about the Neo-Nazis and white nationalists. They should be condemned totally."Agreed. Overstatement on my part. And a lot of omission of the rest of what he said on your part, ignoring the other words and context that contradicts the condemnation. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/25/meet-trump-charlottesville-truthers/eta: do you want to talk about the dramatic increase in hate crimes in our country since Trump took office committed by white nationalists and alt-right extremists?
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Post by Merge on Sept 28, 2019 23:14:49 GMT
With all due respect, the facts do not support your bolded statement. We can all talk and try to see the other side's reasoning and come to an understanding, but we have to agree on facts first. The fact is that Trump said "You also had some very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." A few moments later, to make sure there was no misunderstanding, he says "I'm not talking about the Neo-Nazis and white nationalists. They should be condemned totally."Agreed. Overstatement on my part. And a lot of omission of the rest of what he said on your part, ignoring the other words and context that contradicts the condemnation. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/25/meet-trump-charlottesville-truthers/eta: do you want to talk about the dramatic increase in hate crimes in our country since Trump took office committed by white nationalists and alt-right extremists? Or the fact that Trump has repeatedly re-tweeted white nationalists and includes white nationalists among his closest advisors? I mean, come on. We can argue, "Oh, well, he went back and briefly covered his ass after making a provocative statement, so obviously he's not sympathizing with white nationalists," or we can look at the people he surrounds himself with and the statements he makes about people of color on a regular basis. Context is way more than what he said in that moment. Context is his history of words and actions that show his feelings quite clearly.
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