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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 13, 2020 21:42:16 GMT
Like I said, I’m not defending him for the controversy going on. I was only responding to you saying he wasn’t addressing it. I get that. But when a person representing you threatens to have person A blacklisted from the industry and then you say that is a doctored screen shot. Then person B, who made the threat to person A public, has their stuff yanked from shelves. And you sort of allude to the fact that you actually had their stuff yanked from shelves In your response, it doesn’t lend itself to good optics that the threat was not made and the email was actually doctored. What that looks like is that you throw your weight around in the industry to get back at other designers you don’t like. It looks like this is what you do when you want to. It looks like the threat was made and was real. Tim himself says he had Lara’s stuff pulled from OTHER people’s businesses. How is that not bullying? How is that not exactly what Mario threatened to the unknown artist? THAT is what I’m saying he is not addressing. Why does he think he should have the power to have another designers products pulled - you can’t say that’s doctored he said it himself If it looks like a duck & walks like a duck.... Where does he say that he had other people’s stuff pulled??? |
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Post by karinec on Jul 13, 2020 21:53:09 GMT
What the actual f*ck. Generally I try and give people the benefit of the doubt but Lara’s video seemed very straightforward and genuine. I’m waiting to see what else unfolds but with refugeepea and others being blocked this stinks to high heaven. Too bad for TH, I was ready to drop a bunch of money on Distress Oxides. Not today, for sure. |
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 6:56:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 21:55:41 GMT
What a SH#($* SHOW.
All because Tim and co didn't have the balls to support an artist who used Tim Holtz products to create art about systemic racism.
Even if she/he pulled their card from the group, Tim and co could have made a statement saying "XXX decided to take down their card. But we thought it was beautiful and we stand behind #BlackLivesMatter and more awareness of systemic racism. " Etc.
Way to be brave, Tim.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 13, 2020 21:56:21 GMT
I get that. But when a person representing you threatens to have person A blacklisted from the industry and then you say that is a doctored screen shot. Then person B, who made the threat to person A public, has their stuff yanked from shelves. And you sort of allude to the fact that you actually had their stuff yanked from shelves In your response, it doesn’t lend itself to good optics that the threat was not made and the email was actually doctored. What that looks like is that you throw your weight around in the industry to get back at other designers you don’t like. It looks like this is what you do when you want to. It looks like the threat was made and was real. Tim himself says he had Lara’s stuff pulled from OTHER people’s businesses. How is that not bullying? How is that not exactly what Mario threatened to the unknown artist? THAT is what I’m saying he is not addressing. Why does he think he should have the power to have another designers products pulled - you can’t say that’s doctored he said it himself If it looks like a duck & walks like a duck.... Where does he say that he had other people’s stuff pulled??? In the notice posted Earlier on this thread Tim said that Lara’s products were pulled from retailers affiliated with him. He had her products pulled from retailers websites. What gives him the right? And why does he think that makes it look like what Mario said wasn’t said but was doctored. Because that is what Mario threatened to the unknown artist. |
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Post by hop2 on Jul 13, 2020 22:01:35 GMT
What a SH#($* SHOW. All because Tim and co didn't have the balls to support an artist who used Tim Holtz products to create art about systemic racism. Even if she/he pulled their card from the group, Tim and co could have made a statement saying "XXX decided to take down their card. But we thought it was beautiful and we stand behind #BlackLivesMatter and more awareness of systemic racism. " Etc. Way to be brave, Tim. Well he could admit Mario made a stupid mistake threatening in that email but he’s going with the ‘that didn’t happen‘ excuse meanwhile they do just that to Lara Hey, I don’t have a stake in this fight, I own nothing from Lara. But as a woman who had a semi successful man try to blacklist me in my former industry back in my 20’s He’s going to have to give a better reason as to why he has made a public attempt to have Lara blacklisted. Hot button issue for me, I’ll admit. It’s how men retain dominance in so many industries and it needs to stop. It’s BS |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 13, 2020 22:04:52 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 13, 2020 22:06:20 GMT
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Post by gale w on Jul 13, 2020 22:09:52 GMT
Without reading this entire thread...I read that the Ink Road Stamps lady did something similar to another crafter/craft business in the past. I guess I believe Tim and Mario over her.
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michellegb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,919
Location: New England and loving it!
Jun 26, 2014 0:04:59 GMT
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Post by michellegb on Jul 13, 2020 22:34:35 GMT
Without reading this entire thread...I read that the Ink Road Stamps lady did something similar to another crafter/craft business in the past. I guess I believe Tim and Mario over her. I haven't read all of it, but I will say that while I love Ink Road Stamps' products, the owner went on a tangent on IG about a year ago (?) calling out a customer who complained about something. I wish I could remember the details, but it went way beyond anything I am comfortable with - lots of screenshots, lots of stories about it and I actually ended up feeling a bit bad for the person. It was a public thrashing and it was unprofessional. I stopped following because it was too much drama and not enough grown-up business person. I am going to wait to see more of how this current drama plays out before I judge anyone. As a rule, society tends to jump to immediate conclusions based on just a bit of the info and I am really trying not to do that now. There is more to this story and I want to hear all sides. |
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Post by hop2 on Jul 13, 2020 22:42:31 GMT
Without reading this entire thread...I read that the Ink Road Stamps lady did something similar to another crafter/craft business in the past. I guess I believe Tim and Mario over her. but it’s ok for them to make retailers remove her products? Shouldn’t retailers get to choose for themselves? Why does he get to dictate who does business with whom? |
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,794 
Location: Kentucky
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 13, 2020 22:45:04 GMT
Without reading this entire thread...I read that the Ink Road Stamps lady did something similar to another crafter/craft business in the past. I guess I believe Tim and Mario over her. but it’s ok for them to make retailers remove her products? Shouldn’t retailers get to choose for themselves? Why does he get to dictate who does business with whom? Am I missing proof that Tim *made* retailers remove her products? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 13, 2020 22:46:53 GMT
but it’s ok for them to make retailers remove her products? Shouldn’t retailers get to choose for themselves? Why does he get to dictate who does business with whom? Am I missing proof that Tim *made* retailers remove her products? Nope. She making the assumption. She stated that she called in to SSS to see if they wanted to place order and they told her no. She’s stretched this into TH having others remove other makers products. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 13, 2020 22:47:33 GMT
Without reading this entire thread...I read that the Ink Road Stamps lady did something similar to another crafter/craft business in the past. I guess I believe Tim and Mario over her. but it’s ok for them to make retailers remove her products? Shouldn’t retailers get to choose for themselves? Why does he get to dictate who does business with whom? There is absolutely ZERO proof that this happened. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 13, 2020 22:49:59 GMT
And OP—where did TH make racial slurs?
What am I missing?
The card maker who shared her art, pulled her own artwork/card with no pressure from TH/or members —she posted this on her IG account according to several people.
But where are the racial slurs that TH allegedly used?
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michellegb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,919
Location: New England and loving it!
Jun 26, 2014 0:04:59 GMT
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Post by michellegb on Jul 13, 2020 22:50:43 GMT
For all anyone knows this was the straw that broke the back with SSS. If she publicly does things like what I saw regularly, it may not be a brand they want to be associated with. The timing is certainly suspicious but the truth is we don't know the reason why - we can only assume. I'm not defending anyone here, just saying there are often things happening that we don't see or know.
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Post by peanutterbutter on Jul 13, 2020 22:54:20 GMT
I don't feel like I have enough information yet to say who is telling the truth and who is not. I would be very sad it were true but I need more information to determine what is truth and what is not. But I feel like we rush to to judgment very quickly these days, the minute something is posted online we jump on it. I could read from a piece of paper and say that it's from an email that somebody sent me saying that she had Tim Holtz' secret love child, would that make it true? She's reading the stuff that doesn't make it true, it doesn't mean that it came from the sources she purports that they come from. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Maybe somebody made SSS pull her products, maybe they pulled them because she's difficult to work with, I don't know. Let's slow down and have more information and more actual facts come to light before we make a judgment for either side.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,071
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Post by pinklady on Jul 13, 2020 23:16:16 GMT
Tim has not specifically addressed the emails from Mario. If the emails from Mario are fake, you’d think he make that very clear. Tim has not. That is very suspect to me.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 13, 2020 23:39:40 GMT
but it’s ok for them to make retailers remove her products? Shouldn’t retailers get to choose for themselves? Why does he get to dictate who does business with whom? Am I missing proof that Tim *made* retailers remove her products?  This was posted in that Facebook group. Looks like they're trying to buy silence with product. Because fangirls didn't have enough Tim products before. I’m getting that from this Tim note in this list? No? What else does he mean by that? |
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,794
Location: Kentucky
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 13, 2020 23:44:23 GMT
I don’t see Tim saying HE pulled her products. Just that her products were pulled. She has a history. It wouldn’t be shocking if companies decided not to carry her line anymore.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,071
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Post by pinklady on Jul 13, 2020 23:46:59 GMT
papercrafteradvocate In regards to Zoe trying contact the video lady, did you see that Zoe wanted to do it via video not in writing? That’s pretty interesting. Unless the video is recorded, I’d do everything with Zoe in writing. ETA: I’ve seen no proof of racist statements but I do believe Tim and Mario are bullies. Tim being an asshole behind closed doors is not a revelation. That’s been known forever.
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Post by chrissypaper on Jul 13, 2020 23:50:40 GMT
Lara once claimed that Christy from the Planner Society was talking bad about her and demanded a public apology. She then sent Christy a fake letter from a lawyer. She is well known in planner groups for this and many other things. I won't believe a word she says until it's actually proven somehow. If she is willing to fake a letter from an attorney I wouldn't put it past her to also create fake emails.
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 6:56:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 0:01:55 GMT
Tl;dr Tim/Mario/Zoe are actively deleting comments regarding a piece of art in memory of George Floyd using tim holtz products. An email begN circulating where Mario called the author of it who’s a person of color, a troll and dumb fuck and good luck getting her orders filled from affiliates. Today, Tim has a story up about a black crafter. Is that enough of an “apology”? No. It’s not an apology Tim. 1. How do you know Mario actually did write the email in question? Remember those Planned Parenthood videos that were circulating a couple of years ago. A large chunk of the population thought they were real and hadn’t been edited in such a way to make Planned Parenthood look bad when actually they had been. How do you know the email or emails in questioned are real? 2. I’m in the Facebook Group in question and it’s a non-political group. Anything that has to do with George Floyd’s death and BLM is political. And as nice as the card may have been, it should never have been posted in that group in the first place and that is probably why the maker took it down. 3. Tim Holtz has been highlighting black makers on his Instagram page since shortly after George Floyd’s death and the protests started. Which was several weeks ago. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 14, 2020 0:13:19 GMT
Am I missing proof that Tim *made* retailers remove her products? This was posted in that Facebook group. Looks like they're trying to buy silence with product. Because fangirls didn't have enough Tim products before. I’m getting that from this Tim note in this list? No? What else does he mean by that? Tim stated that the emails were altered/not real in his post on his IG. And give that Zoe is still attached/friends and they are all supporting one another—it could be that the emails were altered. And sorry but no—A brand Offering a person a box of products as an apology for a member/customer getting caught up in unnecessary drama is a nice and generous apology—it does not look like “buying silence” at all. |
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Post by hop2 on Jul 14, 2020 0:18:48 GMT
I’m getting that from this Tim note in this list? No? What else does he mean by that? Tim stated that the emails were altered/not real in his post on his IG. And give that Zoe is still attached/friends and they are all supporting one another—it could be that the emails were altered. And sorry but no—A brand Offering a person a box of products as an apology for a member/customer getting caught up in unnecessary drama is a nice and generous apology—it does not look like “buying silence” at all. I didn’t say it was buying silence. I said it would be blacklisting if what the email said was true. Hey, I have a whole host of Tim Holtz products and none from ink road. I’ll be happy to be proven wrong. But someone altered emails from both Tim & Mario? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 14, 2020 0:20:06 GMT
papercrafteradvocate In regards to Zoe trying contact the video lady, did you see that Zoe wanted to do it via video not in writing? That’s pretty interesting. Unless the video is recorded, I’d do everything with Zoe in writing. ETA: I’ve seen no proof of racist statements but I do believe Tim and Mario are bullies. Tim being an asshole behind closed doors is not a revelation. That’s been known forever. Given that TH has stated that the emails were altered/not right, I’d be leery of just emailing. If Lara, as bold and “I’m gonna call them out” as she says she is, and has already eviscerated them in a video, you wouldn’t think she would have any issue doing a video chat—and video chat wouldn’t be easy to alter. If the two “sides” were seeking truth and both reached out (as they did) to trump to resolve you’d think that they’d jump to chat. |
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 6:56:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 0:21:27 GMT
This was posted in that Facebook group. Looks like they're trying to buy silence with product. Because fangirls didn't have enough Tim products before. Where did you get this from? What Facebook group are you talking about? I’m in the Tim Holtz Addicts group and I never saw it. In reading it, it reads like it was written by a two year old and not Tim. I think you have been duped. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 14, 2020 0:26:02 GMT
Tim has not specifically addressed the emails from Mario. If the emails from Mario are fake, you’d think he make that very clear. Tim has not. That is very suspect to me. Saying the the emails were altered/not right IS addressing them. There were no other emails. Maybe they are trying to review chain of events. In the message where Tim “appears” to be breaking up with Zoe, that in itself is strange given all their social media posts seem to be opposite of that! |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,071
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Post by pinklady on Jul 14, 2020 0:29:50 GMT
Tim’s wording about “doctored screenshots” could mean many things. If he came out and said those email responses from both me and Mario are 100% fake, we never wrote those words, that would be a whole different ballgame. But he didn’t. There is definitely more to this story. http://instagram.com/p/CCl4aH0nmsw |
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Post by hop2 on Jul 14, 2020 0:30:21 GMT
All right. I’m willing to be wrong. But it sure is confusing.
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 6:56:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 0:35:40 GMT
Have any of you watched her stories where she yells and screams about people using Ali Express? She would go on tangents. Then she would screen shot normal everyday crafters and shame them and bully them. She is really not a stable person. Most definitely not professional. When I found out it was her I was not shocked at all.
Tim, otoh, has always been professional, sane and accepting of everyone in the 2 decades I've followed him.
I'm sure there's more to the story, but Tim's character speaks for himself, imo.
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