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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2020 17:20:37 GMT
ah, I see what you did there. Go back and re-quote me. That word I typed BEFORE "poison". Makes all the difference. And yes, they worry all the time. But why would anyone worry about their coffee being poisoned if in fact no ones coffee has been poisoned? That doesn't seem logical does it? I believe that the conversation of LEO’s being “fearful” of having their food poisoned, spit on, peed in has to do with a few TikTok, YouTube videos of a female officer having a meltdown in McD’s, the beverage video that was found to be not true, another a while back of a policeman who accused another McD’s worker of something—where the conservative media put it on blast to accuse liberals of encouraging these acts against LEO. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Sept 17, 2020 17:23:29 GMT
I am not antagonistic toward the police in general. I believe that there are bad cops, just like there are bad teachers and very very bad contractors. We hear about the bad ones. But there IS a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Police union leadership needs to acknowledge this and make it clear that abusive and/or dangerous behavior will not be tolerated. I support reform, better hiring and more body cams. Thing is, good and competent teachers and contracters don't go out to do their jobs every day worried someone will poison their coffee, spit on them, scream in their face, and God forbid get shot in the head sitting in their cars while trying to keep us all safe from harm. They don't pay this type of price for the few bad ones in their profession. Its awful, scary and heartbreaking what's happening, the absolute lawlessness that is going on. My heart and prayers are always there for my LEO friends and family. Every day I pray for them. Actually, teachers face the threat of violence daily. Violent students, school shooters, etc. And is poisoned coffee really a thing? Have police officers been poisoned? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2020 17:23:36 GMT
But why would anyone worry about their coffee being poisoned if in fact no ones coffee has been poisoned? That doesn't seem logical does it? actually, it does. You mean just like the concept of black men being terrified of being pulled over by LEO? It’s not an imaginary thing? It’s probable and likely that something could/can/will happen? Ironic similarities...🧐🤔🤔🤔🤔 |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Sept 17, 2020 17:25:34 GMT
Hi, I'm all for social workers stepping up but here's what we see. A call to a social worker, yeah I'm not coming out, just take a report. A call from a social worker I'm not responding with a LEO. Letter after letter case closed, no findings. No findings, filth, no food, abuse and on and on Reform has to happen everywhere and we just don't seem to be able to get the funding to do that. Gabriel Fernandez comes to mind.  Gabriel Fernandez's womb donor was also visited by the police. They failed him, as well 🤷♀️ |
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by tracylynn on Sept 17, 2020 17:33:11 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness So much hurt and pain and hate has been done to black people and their families for hundreds of years. It's going to take decades, if not centuries to repair. There is no justification for killing cops in revenge or for sport. But when the other side of the coin can't be seen and the "blue line is held at all costs", it just reinforces the stigma and problems that exist. |
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Post by elaine on Sept 17, 2020 17:34:25 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I mean this is all kindness, but your viewpoint is skewed/biased by who you are and where you stand in the diagram as an LEO spouse. People who personally aren’t the targets in that diagram can more easily and honestly place themselves in the ME portion. I would imagine that if you asked a large number of POC, they would say that they don’t see the Venn diagram either, but they would say that hardly anyone really thinks Black Lives Matter and not enough people are upset by police brutality directed at them. Is their view/reality any less true than your view/reality? I think that your reaction that “it’s going to take years to repair” the damage done to LEO and their families, is EXACTLY what POC feel about systemic racism and the damage done by the slew of unjustified shootings and murder at the hands of the police. Neither side is less valid because of the existence and/or understanding of the truth of other side. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2020 17:38:03 GMT
Change is the key word. Change the job of police officers Change the job of social workers assigned to the areas Change the availability of mental health care workers And the list goes on. ETA there has been success with civilian responders to domestic violence. Change takes time all the way around. And yes, the majority of police offer are good honorable people! They also need to embrace the change of hiding the bad ones who make it bad for everyone including themselves! Do you know that DV calls are some of the most violent calls. Im all for sending others to those calls. I HATE them, they set the hair on the back of your neck. All of this takes money, training and time. But then when civilian respond and they get beat or hurt, who will they call LEO. The circle will go around and around. This post/response of yours points out exactly why serious, effective, sweeping, changes need to be made. It’s cause and effect. It’s not enough for people to say “well if they complied with police orders, everything would be fine” because there is evidence of that not being true. Time is not on our (anyone’s) side anymore. People don’t trust LEO’s based on what they are seeing, and that puts a lot of lives in jeopardy. When the administration orders attacks on its own people, it’s frightening and puts both LEO’s and civilians in harms way. Supporting this administration is supporting the heavy handed aggression that is being filed out by local, state, and federal LRO’s, because they’re bring told it’s okay and all that Law& Order bullshit. |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
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Post by PLurker on Sept 17, 2020 17:39:42 GMT
A young man that I've known since birth, calls me "aunt", I haven't seen him in a few years but I hold him dear. He recently messaged me when I voiced my dismay in a (proven) police brutality case. Racism is thought to be a cause. He messaged me and said he couldn't hold his tongue and "cops aren't racist, we aren't racist!" I clearly wasn't saying all were but that some humans are and LEO are human so it goes to follow.
He went on to say they take an oath, it's against the law so it can't be. If only it was that simple. I mentioned that I know you, I have always trusted you but that doesn't cover everyone in your line of work. I told him about how when I worked in an affluent white town, pretty much all of my black co workers were pulled over when working the night shift and none of us that were white. Too many times to be a coincidence, IMO. So much so that I believe the postmaster contacted the police department to inquire why so many workers were being stopped and stops subsided. Anyway, my "nephew"'s response was how convenient to have the race card to play if you are late for work. While I have little doubt someONE might pull that when not so, these incidents were pretty obvious. He went on to tell me about those "BLM mobs" (his words) he has seen and encountered and mocked most protests as being anything but "peaceful".
I was trying my best to not insult him as a person and LEO as that venn diagram shows, I am a "ME". I am also aware that he is probably defensive and that messaging/texting doesn't always come across well. But I have to admit, wanting to encompass the entire LEO population as not bad/not racist and in the next breath dismissing a whole nother group (BLM) being bad and a "mob" threw me a bit, coming from him. And the comments about most protests not being peaceful, well I didn't even go there because I am part of that group. You know, the larger peaceful part.
So, yeah, that venn diagram hits close to home today. It should for everyone.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2020 17:41:48 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness It’s really a shame that you refuse to look outside your bubble. This is exactly why people have been protesting—decades and decades of unnecessary hurt and murders of black lives at the hands of LEO’s not being held accountable. There is plenty of excellent conversation in this thread. |
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Post by peano on Sept 17, 2020 17:52:39 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I hear what you’re saying but I don’t recall you (and please correct me if I’m wrong) acknowledging the issues with systemic racism in law enforcement (as in every other arena). I’ve never heard any outrage from you about Breonna Taylor or George Floyd etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc... Until this very real issue can be addressed with an understanding of the complexity of the issue and an honest open-mindedness, then all I hear in your post is closed-minded self-pity. And I have little hope for a peaceful resolution. |
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by muggins on Sept 17, 2020 17:58:19 GMT
It seems to me that American LEOs have very little training compared to other countries. I think since there are so many guns in this country compared to others, they would need more training not less before they’re allowed out on the streets.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by muggins on Sept 17, 2020 18:00:34 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I hear what you’re saying but I don’t recall you (and please correct me if I’m wrong) acknowledging the issues with systemic racism in law enforcement (as in every other arena). I’ve never heard any outrage from you about Breonna Taylor or George Floyd etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc... Until this very real issue can be addressed with an understanding of the complexity of the issue and an honest open-mindedness, then all I hear in your post is closed-minded self-pity. And I have little hope for a peaceful resolution. OP and 90% of her friends are trump supporters. There will never be any outrage or acknowledgement from them. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 17, 2020 18:08:18 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I read your original, unedited, post, and found it incredibly combative and a few other things I'll chalk up to emotion. It must be beyond stressful to have a spouse in law enforcement. However, you are asking for a grace that I have never seen you extend. You never express outrage for the scores of innocent people killed by the police. You never express empathy or sadness at the lives they've cut short. I can weep for Tamir Rice and Breonna Taylor and Philando Castile while also feeling empathy and sadness for officers who are injured or worse. Why can't you? My friend is a SWAT officer for the LAPD. His wife has never referred to his job, his calls or his profession as hers. I find it so fascinating that you routinely respond as if you are personally wearing a badge and doing police work. |
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Kerri W on Sept 17, 2020 18:11:47 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I read your original, unedited, post, and found it incredibly combative and a few other things I'll chalk up to emotion. It must be beyond stressful to have a spouse in law enforcement. However, you are asking for a grace that I have never seen you extend. You never express outrage for the scores of innocent people killed by the police. You never express empathy or sadness at the lives they've cut short. I can weep for Tamir Rice and Breonna Taylor and Philando Castile while also feeling empathy and sadness for officers who are injured or worse. Why can't you? My friend is a SWAT officer for the LAPD. His wife has never referred to his job, his calls or his profession as hers. I find it so fascinating that you routinely respond as if you are personally wearing a badge and doing police work. Precisely. |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 17, 2020 18:14:58 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness That diagram is nice in theory but is not always reality. In my area you can not be in the back the blue Facebook groups and in the anti racist Facebook group. The anti racist group made that statement and removed a couple of people, giving the conflict as the reason. I’m in a neighboring towns back the blue group and my towns anti racist group as long as possible. The difference in tone is interesting. Seattle’s black female police chief had protesters show up at her home. She has recently retired. It’s a great loss to Seattle, Seattle Police Department and the citizens. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 17, 2020 18:42:10 GMT
It seems to me that American LEOs have very little training compared to other countries. I think since there are so many guns in this country compared to others, they would need more training not less before they’re allowed out on the streets. In my state, cosmetologists are required to have 1600 hours of training before they are even allowed to take state board exams. Police cadets in our state average about 800 hours of training. |
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Post by gar on Sept 17, 2020 18:48:12 GMT
It seems to me that American LEOs have very little training compared to other countries. I think since there are so many guns in this country compared to others, they would need more training not less before they’re allowed out on the streets. In my state, cosmetologists are required to have 1600 hours of training before they are even allowed to take state board exams. Police cadets in our state average about 800 hours of training.  Therein lies madness. |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 17, 2020 18:50:00 GMT
another thought, for those of us who have people we know and love in law enforcement. Wouldn't it be better for them to find a way to reform and improve the police? Ignoring the bad cops makes it worse for the good cops, as I see it. Less workload and more training and screening would make things better, safer and less stressful for them as LEOs and the general population. It'd take time, of course, but without change... well, no change for good.
I don't see how speaking out against the bad and seeking improvements can be seen as an attack against anyone who isn't among that bad. Not acknowledging often seems as condoning.
ETA I think only 600 hours of training is necessary to become a LEO here. I could be wrong. But I recall thinking 600 hours at 40 hours/week equals 15 weeks. Or less than four months. To carry weapons and bear all that responsibility of yours and other lives.
I also remember when my above mentioned "nephew" told me he was going to be a police officer. I was proud. Then I was shocked when he was one, so quickly. That may have been when I looked up training hours needed and was shocked.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2020 19:08:22 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I read your original, unedited, post, and found it incredibly combative and a few other things I'll chalk up to emotion. It must be beyond stressful to have a spouse in law enforcement. However, you are asking for a grace that I have never seen you extend. You never express outrage for the scores of innocent people killed by the police. You never express empathy or sadness at the lives they've cut short. I can weep for Tamir Rice and Breonna Taylor and Philando Castile while also feeling empathy and sadness for officers who are injured or worse. Why can't you? My friend is a SWAT officer for the LAPD. His wife has never referred to his job, his calls or his profession as hers. I find it so fascinating that you routinely respond as if you are personally wearing a badge and doing police work. This exactly! I was thinking this while I typed my post earlier, but couldn’t figure out the right words. Very perfectly stated. I have a family member who fits that bill, husband is LEO. Wife thinks that the badge extends to her, in a way beyond being a spouse of an LEO. It doesn’t help that she’s also a gun toting racist. But that’s a whole ‘nother thread!!! |
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 17, 2020 19:15:03 GMT
Posturing for the conservatives 🙄
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Post by pixiechick on Sept 17, 2020 20:07:30 GMT
Here you would be wrong, and this is my personal issue as is many spouses. My husbands uniform comes off but he is never not a LEO. Always on duty, always ready to step in, protect and defend. I can't tell you how many fights, domestics, car accidents,run to school shooting, stop to back up an officer he has done out of uniform. Sorry he might remove the uniform but that is not what make his life a blue life. A blue life is heart, soul and being. I thank your husband for his service. I thank you and your family for all of the sacrifices you all make by being the family of a LEO. And I agree, for the 100s of thousands of good LEOs, blue life is heart and soul and way of being. Thank you. |
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Sept 17, 2020 20:17:39 GMT
Post by pixiechick on Sept 17, 2020 20:17:39 GMT
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Sept 17, 2020 20:24:41 GMT
You're fond of telling people to Google. Try googling "defund police" if you're interested. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 20:25:20 GMT
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Post by pixiechick on Sept 17, 2020 20:45:30 GMT
You're fond of telling people to Google. Try googling "defund police" if you're interested. Hmmm... nope. I've never told anyone here to google. Thanks, I'll check it out. |
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Sept 17, 2020 20:54:16 GMT
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Post by andreasmom on Sept 17, 2020 20:54:16 GMT
This is nonsensically being promulgated as another Us vs Them issue, much like my statement in a recent thread about the right coopting anti-child trafficking as somehow being “their” issue. Just like I said in that post, there’s not a normal person on the face of the earth who doesn’t condemn child trafficking, the same is true for being supportive of ethical and law abiding cops. Where it all seems to break down is when we point out the glaring systemic problems in law enforcement and the need for reform, and are met with defensiveness and lies about how we are anti-cop. Any deaths that occur between citizens and law enforcement are too many. Right, this is not an us vs them thing, and it shouldn’t be. This articulates how I feel, and I imagine most people feel like this. Maybe it’s a bit simplistic, but it’s possible to take three different, yet complimentary perspectives on a single issue.  ❤️ |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2020 21:03:43 GMT
Another example of this administration’s stance on the matter..YESTERDAY.
Direct quotes made by Bill Barr—he addressed the Black Lives Matter movement. "They're not interested in Black lives. They're interested in props, a small number of Blacks who are killed by police during conflicts with police — usually less than a dozen a year — who they can use as props to achieve a much broader political agenda."
His words are offensive, lies (not all black lives have been lost as s result of “conflict “ he’s gaslighting to make it sound like it was deserved), and as head of FOJ, he ought to be finding a way to work with groups like BLM, vs set fire and throw gasoline on them.
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Post by sideways on Sept 17, 2020 21:07:41 GMT
I am not antagonistic toward the police in general. I believe that there are bad cops, just like there are bad teachers and very very bad contractors. We hear about the bad ones. But there IS a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Police union leadership needs to acknowledge this and make it clear that abusive and/or dangerous behavior will not be tolerated. I support reform, better hiring and more body cams. Thing is, good and competent teachers and contracters don't go out to do their jobs every day worried someone will poison their coffee, spit on them, scream in their face, and God forbid get shot in the head sitting in their cars while trying to keep us all safe from harm. They don't pay this type of price for the few bad ones in their profession. Its awful, scary and heartbreaking what's happening, the absolute lawlessness that is going on. My heart and prayers are always there for my LEO friends and family. Every day I pray for them. You don’t know many teachers, do you? |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 17, 2020 21:46:57 GMT
That venn diagram is perfect but what we are seeing is not that. So much hate and hurt has been done to LEO'S and THEIR FAMILIES, it's going to take years to repair. When someone feels comfortable enough to bring it to my home in the name of protest their is no forgiveness I mean this is all kindness, but your viewpoint is skewed/biased by who you are and where you stand in the diagram as an LEO spouse. People who personally aren’t the targets in that diagram can more easily and honestly place themselves in the ME portion. I would imagine that if you asked a large number of POC, they would say that they don’t see the Venn diagram either, but they would say that hardly anyone really thinks Black Lives Matter and not enough people are upset by police brutality directed at them. Is their view/reality any less true than your view/reality? I think that your reaction that “it’s going to take years to repair” the damage done to LEO and their families, is EXACTLY what POC feel about systemic racism and the damage done by the slew of unjustified shootings and murder at the hands of the police. Neither side is less valid because of the existence and/or understanding of the truth of other side. Thank you for understanding what I was getting at.  I’m not speaking for POC, nor am I speaking for LEO. I would never presume to speak for either. I am speaking as me, a white woman and trying to articulate where I am at in this. It was supposed to give you some idea that just because people support BLM, doesn’t mean they can’t also support good police, like your spouse - but I guess I missed the mark. It’s not a zero sum equation, it’s really not. I am far more complex than the rules of any Facebook group, thankfully - and there is room in my worldview to support or consider an injustice, all three facets of the diagram. |
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Post by dizzycheermom on Sept 17, 2020 22:08:33 GMT
I am not antagonistic toward the police in general. I believe that there are bad cops, just like there are bad teachers and very very bad contractors. We hear about the bad ones. But there IS a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Police union leadership needs to acknowledge this and make it clear that abusive and/or dangerous behavior will not be tolerated. I support reform, better hiring and more body cams. Thing is, good and competent teachers and contracters don't go out to do their jobs every day worried someone will poison their coffee, spit on them, scream in their face, and God forbid get shot in the head sitting in their cars while trying to keep us all safe from harm. They don't pay this type of price for the few bad ones in their profession. Its awful, scary and heartbreaking what's happening, the absolute lawlessness that is going on. My heart and prayers are always there for my LEO friends and family. Every day I pray for them. Actually I think teachers worry about all that as well. One of my daughter's teachers had hand sanitizer put in her drink. I'm sure teachers have had students get in their face and spit on them, and they are all worried about a school shooting. I am all about supporting the good cops, one of my best friends is a good cop. But clearly reform is needed. Police officers must be held responsible if they murder someone. |
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Therein lies madness.
