|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 19, 2021 20:40:41 GMT
Ok. Has it occurred to you that when we cave to anti-LGBTQ folks in “not going too far left” that we ARE letting the Republicans control the narrative? This is basic human rights stuff. It shouldn’t be right or left. Buying the lie that we need to wait until people are ready is letting someone else control the narrative. Refusing to concede that our positions are anything other than common sense and justice is how we control it. IMO. (If someone has bought the Fox koolaid, they will never vote for us anyway, no matter how far center we move.) I’m a very moderate Democrat and I agree that LGBTQ rights span all shades of the Democratic Party. It is as absurd as trying to say that only progressives or the extreme left care about racism and sexism and that the rest of the party is getting forcefully dragged along behind them. The GOP is controlling the narrative re: LGBTQ rights. They are basic human rights. And if you don’t believe in basic human rights, I don’t think that you are a Democrat, even if you choose to self-label that way. They aren’t something that only the most left-leaning in the Democratic Party champion - they are what the party stands for, the whole party. I don't disagree with you at all about LGBTQ rights being basic human rights, I will say that there are segments of the Democratic party that have struggled a lot with homophobia. There are definitely cultural/ethic issues that while maybe moving in the right direction, still are very much lagging in support. African American support for even gay marriage has lagged considerably with the rest of the Democratic party and has often approached/matched Republican support/lack thereof and they were a huge demographic that supported California's Proposition 8 banning gay marriage. I do think it's one of the things that make party politics so difficult - people are complicated and often bolt even when they support 90% of a party's positions, but get hung up on something that in reality doesn't even impact them, but are swayed for cultural/religious reasons. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 20:42:15 GMT
How sad is it that half our country is willing to let racism, misogyny, xenophobia, religious bigotry stand in the way of other people's right to just live their lives in peace and freedom? To me it is beyond sad. It is DEPLORABLE. |
|
|
|
Post by sideways on Jul 19, 2021 20:51:17 GMT
Has the least who brought up the transgender issue come back to acknowledge that this was a hoax? No. Of course she hasn’t. |
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jul 19, 2021 21:54:42 GMT
Trump's history with the anti-vax movement, pre-Covid: www.nature.com/articles/541259aAnd let's not forget that Trump and his surrogates said for months that the virus was no big deal, no worse than the flu, completely under control ... even as he was hospitalized for it. He did his best to undermine the efforts of Fauci and the CDC, and to cast doubts on what they said. He promoted "alternative" treatments that were pure quackery. The result of which was that lots of his followers chose not to get vaccinated and continue to believe that Covid is no big deal. Trump affirming the choices of those who don't get vaccinated, by tying it to the big lie: www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/politics/donald-trump-covid-19-vaccines/index.htmlI know some of our friends here are sticklers for "did he say exactly not to get vaccinated?" so I'm going to ask those people to consider that communication is not always a straight line. Somehow, some way, Trump's supporters have gotten the message that they don't need a vaccine and in fact should actively avoid getting one. It doesn't take a genius to draw a line between past/current messaging from Trump and those choices his followers have made. Ted Cruz lying about rising Covid rates in border counties by blaming it on undocumented immigrants: news.yahoo.com/ted-cruz-mocked-blaming-rise-195823373.html |
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jul 19, 2021 22:13:51 GMT
Here is where you’re wrong IMO. If trump should run and win then it’s just as much the Democrats fault as it is the idiots who voted for him. It would mean the Democrats didn’t do a good enough job in selling our vision/plans for a better America. It will mean, once again, they let the Republicans, who have absolutely nothing to offer, control the narrative. The ONLY way we get things done is to win elections, on the local level, on the state level, and on the federal level and it can’t be done unless we get independents and yes Republicans to join us. Ok. Has it occurred to you that when we cave to anti-LGBTQ folks in “not going too far left” that we ARE letting the Republicans control the narrative? This is basic human rights stuff. It shouldn’t be right or left. Buying the lie that we need to wait until people are ready is letting someone else control the narrative. Refusing to concede that our positions are anything other than common sense and justice is how we control it. IMO.(If someone has bought the Fox koolaid, they will never vote for us anyway, no matter how far center we move.) Who said anything about caving. I said controlling the narrative, it means we tell the story based on facts. Be smart about it. If the Democrats can’t do it then maybe we don’t deserve to win elections. As to the bolded part, how well is that working out? Joe Biden beat dumpster don by what 7 million votes. Yet the Democrats lost more then a few seats in the house, got the slimmest majority one can have in the Senate. A majority that is leaving the Democrats a prison of the whims of one Joe Manchin. Who claims he is a Democrat and yet went to Texas for a fundraiser attended by mostly Republican donors. Personally I would just love to round up trump, his supporters , 3/4 of the current crop of Republican elected officials, and Joe Manchin, put all of them on a ship or ships and tell them to get lost. But that ain’t going to happen. Which means the Democrats have to come up with a plan to win a lot of elections because what we are doing now ain’t working. |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 19, 2021 22:20:53 GMT
So you’d vote for Trump rather than have progressive policies implemented in this country? Nice. Yes, I’m unapologetically “far left,” because I happen to think that people’s human rights should not be subject to the comfort level of others, and that we do better as a society when everyone has a fair shot at what we used to call the American dream (now the American fantasy for many/most). These aren’t actually “far left” positions in most of the world, BTW. They’re common sense center left. But our country is so determined to make sure that bigots and billionaires are comfortable at everyone else’s expense, that my views seem “far left.” I will not be bullied into fighting for less than every American deserves with threats that doing so will ensure another Trump win. If Trump wins, that’s entirely the responsibility of the millions of fools who vote for him. And I don’t owe them a thing. Here is where you’re wrong IMO. If trump should run and win then it’s just as much the Democrats fault as it is the idiots who voted for him. It would mean the Democrats didn’t do a good enough job in selling our vision/plans for a better America. It will mean, once again, they let the Republicans, who have absolutely nothing to offer, control the narrative. The ONLY way we get things done is to win elections, on the local level, on the state level, and on the federal level and it can’t be done unless we get independents and yes Republicans to join us. I disagree. It’s harder and harder to combat the disinformation and lies being generated by trumplizards when they have billions snd billions of dollars being thrown by dark money, Murdoch, Hobby Lobby and other religious zealots and groups like that. How on earth can that be the daily if Democrats/progressives/independents when the lies snd disinformation is front and center daily and many of the think like peas like lindas—any vote against a democrat just to own the Libs… |
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jul 19, 2021 22:25:27 GMT
Cruz is ginning up the rhetoric about immigration at the border with lies. And dumpster don is basically telling his followers not to get vaccinated and trying to make it all President Biden’s fault. Would someone please provide examples of the Democrats doing crap like this? Seriously. There are none. Can you post a link to Cruz's lies about the border and a link to Trump telling people not to get vaccinated? All I can see is headlines saying Trump is telling people to GET vaccinated. “Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America” 07/18/21 FacebookTwitterEmailMore “Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.” From the Washington Post article. “It was only a matter of time until Donald Trump converted the debate over covid-19 vaccines into an occasion for his supporters to show their loyalty to him — and even worse, to the “big lie” that his 2020 loss was illegitimate. “People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.” There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, because this sentiment should flow naturally from their suspicion that the election was stolen from him. Expressing the former has been magically transformed into a way to show fealty to the latter.” Cruz is on the miscellaneous thread. Now put on your critical skills thinking cap while you read this. |
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jul 19, 2021 22:28:20 GMT
Here is where you’re wrong IMO. If trump should run and win then it’s just as much the Democrats fault as it is the idiots who voted for him. It would mean the Democrats didn’t do a good enough job in selling our vision/plans for a better America. It will mean, once again, they let the Republicans, who have absolutely nothing to offer, control the narrative. The ONLY way we get things done is to win elections, on the local level, on the state level, and on the federal level and it can’t be done unless we get independents and yes Republicans to join us. I disagree. It’s harder and harder to combat the disinformation and lies being generated by trumplizards when they have billions snd billions of dollars being thrown by dark money, Murdoch, Hobby Lobby and other religious zealots and groups like that. How on earth can that be the daily if Democrats/progressives/independents when the lies snd disinformation is front and center daily and many of the think like peas like lindas—any vote against a democrat just to own the Libs… So how do you suggest we win elections? Or do you also disagree that to make change the Democrats have to win a lot of elections on the local level, the state level, and the federal level? |
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jul 20, 2021 2:18:02 GMT
Ok. Has it occurred to you that when we cave to anti-LGBTQ folks in “not going too far left” that we ARE letting the Republicans control the narrative? This is basic human rights stuff. It shouldn’t be right or left. Buying the lie that we need to wait until people are ready is letting someone else control the narrative. Refusing to concede that our positions are anything other than common sense and justice is how we control it. IMO.(If someone has bought the Fox koolaid, they will never vote for us anyway, no matter how far center we move.) Who said anything about caving. I said controlling the narrative, it means we tell the story based on facts. Be smart about it. If the Democrats can’t do it then maybe we don’t deserve to win elections. As to the bolded part, how well is that working out? Joe Biden beat dumpster don by what 7 million votes. Yet the Democrats lost more then a few seats in the house, got the slimmest majority one can have in the Senate. A majority that is leaving the Democrats a prison of the whims of one Joe Manchin. Who claims he is a Democrat and yet went to Texas for a fundraiser attended by mostly Republican donors. Personally I would just love to round up trump, his supporters , 3/4 of the current crop of Republican elected officials, and Joe Manchin, put all of them on a ship or ships and tell them to get lost. But that ain’t going to happen. Which means the Democrats have to come up with a plan to win a lot of elections because what we are doing now ain’t working. We have to play as dirty as they do. We're never going to win solely in the marketplace of ideas because they've rigged the game against us. We have to stop the filibuster, enact election protections, improve voter turnout, and end extreme partisan gerrymandering (that, BTW, is the reason we lost seats in the house - anyone who says otherwise is carrying water for the GOP). It's really not about who "deserves" to win at this point. The Democrats have - to extend a metaphor that's a little too on the nose - brought knives to a gun fight when dealing with the GOP. There won't be any compromise or bipartisanship. There won't be any unity. We have to take back the country through whatever legal means we can, or there won't be a country. These are people who were literally willing to storm the capitol to keep their guy in power, and we're worried about messaging? Please. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 2:57:19 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jul 20, 2021 3:21:18 GMT
I’m a very moderate Democrat and I agree that LGBTQ rights span all shades of the Democratic Party. It is as absurd as trying to say that only progressives or the extreme left care about racism and sexism and that the rest of the party is getting forcefully dragged along behind them. The GOP is controlling the narrative re: LGBTQ rights. They are basic human rights. And if you don’t believe in basic human rights, I don’t think that you are a Democrat, even if you choose to self-label that way. They aren’t something that only the most left-leaning in the Democratic Party champion - they are what the party stands for, the whole party. I don't disagree with you at all about LGBTQ rights being basic human rights, I will say that there are segments of the Democratic party that have struggled a lot with homophobia. There are definitely cultural/ethic issues that while maybe moving in the right direction, still are very much lagging in support. African American support for even gay marriage has lagged considerably with the rest of the Democratic party and has often approached/matched Republican support/lack thereof and they were a huge demographic that supported California's Proposition 8 banning gay marriage. I do think it's one of the things that make party politics so difficult - people are complicated and often bolt even when they support 90% of a party's positions, but get hung up on something that in reality doesn't even impact them, but are swayed for cultural/religious reasons. I wanted to acknowledge your reply to me, Darcy. I also want to say, that, given my history on this board with a couple of posters, I can’t really discuss your response the way I would like to. Suffice it to say, I think that the issues you mention have little to do with progressive vs. moderate/conservative Democrats - unlike what has been proposed - and more to do with ethnic cultural issues that span political parties. |
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jul 20, 2021 16:11:58 GMT
Who said anything about caving. I said controlling the narrative, it means we tell the story based on facts. Be smart about it. If the Democrats can’t do it then maybe we don’t deserve to win elections. As to the bolded part, how well is that working out? Joe Biden beat dumpster don by what 7 million votes. Yet the Democrats lost more then a few seats in the house, got the slimmest majority one can have in the Senate. A majority that is leaving the Democrats a prison of the whims of one Joe Manchin. Who claims he is a Democrat and yet went to Texas for a fundraiser attended by mostly Republican donors. Personally I would just love to round up trump, his supporters , 3/4 of the current crop of Republican elected officials, and Joe Manchin, put all of them on a ship or ships and tell them to get lost. But that ain’t going to happen. Which means the Democrats have to come up with a plan to win a lot of elections because what we are doing now ain’t working. We have to play as dirty as they do. We're never going to win solely in the marketplace of ideas because they've rigged the game against us. We have to stop the filibuster, enact election protections, improve voter turnout, and end extreme partisan gerrymandering (that, BTW, is the reason we lost seats in the house - anyone who says otherwise is carrying water for the GOP). It's really not about who "deserves" to win at this point. The Democrats have - to extend a metaphor that's a little too on the nose - brought knives to a gun fight when dealing with the GOP. There won't be any compromise or bipartisanship. There won't be any unity. We have to take back the country through whatever legal means we can, or there won't be a country. These are people who were literally willing to storm the capitol to keep their guy in power, and we're worried about messaging? Please. I would be remiss if I did not point out in order to * eliminate the filibuster * eliminate gerrymandering in most states * put in voter protections One has to win elections on the local, state, & federal levels to address these issues. And you have me scratching my head about “deserving” to win. A political campaign is no different than an advertising campaign when you think about it. Each political party is trying to sell something to the American People in hopes of getting their votes. How is that different than an advertising campaign selling a new car? It’s not. The problems are. * you have one party with nothing to sell so the lie. A lot. * you have apathetic and ignorant voters The trick is to find a way to make, not only Democrats, but independents and some Republicans to “buy” the product the Democrats are selling. It isn’t easy because for far too long the Democrats have let the Republicans control the narrative about the product the Democrats are trying to sell. With very little pushback from the Democrats. Instead they end up making excuses. I was curious who voted for Joe Biden and found this article from the Washington Post. From the article… link“Why, then, did Joe Biden win and Hillary Clinton lose? Our exploration of YouGov/CBS polling provides an answer to that question. We find that in the decisive states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin), Biden exceeded his national performance among pure independents (the small fraction of voters that eschew all partisan leanings) and substantially bested Clinton’s 2016 showing among that group. He also managed to convert more former Trump voters than Trump did ex-Clinton voters. Ultimately, however, Biden’s improvement on Clinton’s effort was small, reflecting the extraordinary difficulty of winning a contemporary presidential election by a dominant margin in the Electoral College. Moreover, Biden’s win was in large part a repudiation of Trump, which did not carry over to House and Senate races, where Democrats did not meet expectations.” As to the voters, more than a few are apathetic or ignorant and it can be either genuine or deliberate ignorance. There are the voters looking for the perfect candidate that doesn’t exist and will never exist. Because we are humans and as such we are naturally flawed. There are voters that because they don’t agree 100% about what’s on a party’s platform they won’t for it. There are voters who absolutely hate certain social issues so they won’t vote for a candidate supporting them. All the time not realizing or caring those social issues won’t affect 99.9% of the population personally and how they live their lives. But what it does is dictate how groups of people should live. And the only reason they are voting this way is because they are uncomfortable with the idea that people should live their lives as who they are and not how others think they should. Which makes the sell job even harder. But if one believes in their product and wants change then one has to win elections which means the Democrats have to step up their game. And it should be a no brainer because the Republicans have nothing to offer the American People except lies. But yet for some reason the Democrats keep tripping over their own feet when it comes to combating the lies the Republicans tell. The Democrats have a solid agenda to sell to the people that actually helps people. They don’t need to lie about it. They just need to sell it based on the facts. But they had better get their act together because the clock is ticking. |
|
|
|
Post by pixiechick on Jul 20, 2021 23:43:38 GMT
Can you post a link to Cruz's lies about the border and a link to Trump telling people not to get vaccinated? All I can see is headlines saying Trump is telling people to GET vaccinated. “Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America” 07/18/21 FacebookTwitterEmailMore “Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.” From the Washington Post article. “It was only a matter of time until Donald Trump converted the debate over covid-19 vaccines into an occasion for his supporters to show their loyalty to him — and even worse, to the “big lie” that his 2020 loss was illegitimate. “People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.” There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, because this sentiment should flow naturally from their suspicion that the election was stolen from him. Expressing the former has been magically transformed into a way to show fealty to the latter.” Cruz is on the miscellaneous thread. Now put on your critical skills thinking cap while you read this.“People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.” There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, Ok, then we have to apply the same logic to Kamala, as she also undermined public confidence in the vaccine. |
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jul 21, 2021 0:07:59 GMT
We have to play as dirty as they do. We're never going to win solely in the marketplace of ideas because they've rigged the game against us. We have to stop the filibuster, enact election protections, improve voter turnout, and end extreme partisan gerrymandering (that, BTW, is the reason we lost seats in the house - anyone who says otherwise is carrying water for the GOP). It's really not about who "deserves" to win at this point. The Democrats have - to extend a metaphor that's a little too on the nose - brought knives to a gun fight when dealing with the GOP. There won't be any compromise or bipartisanship. There won't be any unity. We have to take back the country through whatever legal means we can, or there won't be a country. These are people who were literally willing to storm the capitol to keep their guy in power, and we're worried about messaging? Please. I would be remiss if I did not point out in order to * eliminate the filibuster * eliminate gerrymandering in most states * put in voter protections One has to win elections on the local, state, & federal levels to address these issues. And you have me scratching my head about “deserving” to win. A political campaign is no different than an advertising campaign when you think about it. Each political party is trying to sell something to the American People in hopes of getting their votes. How is that different than an advertising campaign selling a new car? It’s not. The problems are. * you have one party with nothing to sell so the lie. A lot. * you have apathetic and ignorant voters The trick is to find a way to make, not only Democrats, but independents and some Republicans to “buy” the product the Democrats are selling. It isn’t easy because for far too long the Democrats have let the Republicans control the narrative about the product the Democrats are trying to sell. With very little pushback from the Democrats. Instead they end up making excuses. I was curious who voted for Joe Biden and found this article from the Washington Post. From the article… link“Why, then, did Joe Biden win and Hillary Clinton lose? Our exploration of YouGov/CBS polling provides an answer to that question. We find that in the decisive states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin), Biden exceeded his national performance among pure independents (the small fraction of voters that eschew all partisan leanings) and substantially bested Clinton’s 2016 showing among that group. He also managed to convert more former Trump voters than Trump did ex-Clinton voters. Ultimately, however, Biden’s improvement on Clinton’s effort was small, reflecting the extraordinary difficulty of winning a contemporary presidential election by a dominant margin in the Electoral College. Moreover, Biden’s win was in large part a repudiation of Trump, which did not carry over to House and Senate races, where Democrats did not meet expectations.” As to the voters, more than a few are apathetic or ignorant and it can be either genuine or deliberate ignorance. There are the voters looking for the perfect candidate that doesn’t exist and will never exist. Because we are humans and as such we are naturally flawed. There are voters that because they don’t agree 100% about what’s on a party’s platform they won’t for it. There are voters who absolutely hate certain social issues so they won’t vote for a candidate supporting them. All the time not realizing or caring those social issues won’t affect 99.9% of the population personally and how they live their lives. But what it does is dictate how groups of people should live. And the only reason they are voting this way is because they are uncomfortable with the idea that people should live their lives as who they are and not how others think they should. Which makes the sell job even harder. But if one believes in their product and wants change then one has to win elections which means the Democrats have to step up their game. And it should be a no brainer because the Republicans have nothing to offer the American People except lies. But yet for some reason the Democrats keep tripping over their own feet when it comes to combating the lies the Republicans tell. The Democrats have a solid agenda to sell to the people that actually helps people. They don’t need to lie about it. They just need to sell it based on the facts. But they had better get their act together because the clock is ticking. We can end the filibuster and pass voting protection legislation right now. This minute. And that will help us win elections and pass legislation down the road. As I said, Trumpers are not going to be convinced by anything we have to say. We simply have to take their unfettered legislative power away from them, right now, while we have the chance. We won’t have it again. |
|
|
|
Post by sideways on Jul 21, 2021 2:38:16 GMT
“Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America” 07/18/21 FacebookTwitterEmailMore “Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.” From the Washington Post article. “It was only a matter of time until Donald Trump converted the debate over covid-19 vaccines into an occasion for his supporters to show their loyalty to him — and even worse, to the “big lie” that his 2020 loss was illegitimate. “People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.” There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, because this sentiment should flow naturally from their suspicion that the election was stolen from him. Expressing the former has been magically transformed into a way to show fealty to the latter.” Cruz is on the miscellaneous thread. Now put on your critical skills thinking cap while you read this.“People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.” There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, Ok, then we have to apply the same logic to Kamala, as she also undermined public confidence in the vaccine. Trump did nothing but lie, gaslight, and downplay the virus (in addition to all the other lies he told.) NOTHING that came out of his anus-mouth could be trusted. Harris had no confidence in trump or his administration, just like 81 million other people. trump would’ve misled the public about the vaccine in some way had it come out while he was in office. You’re reaching…again. |
|
|
|
Post by pixiechick on Jul 21, 2021 4:57:16 GMT
Ok, then we have to apply the same logic to Kamala, as she also undermined public confidence in the vaccine. Trump did nothing but lie, gaslight, and downplay the virus (in addition to all the other lies he told.) NOTHING that came out of his anus-mouth could be trusted. Harris had no confidence in trump or his administration, just like 81 million other people. trump would’ve misled the public about the vaccine in some way had it come out while he was in office. You’re reaching…again. The vaccine DID come out while he was in office. Regardless of what kind of person Trump is, Kamala ALSO undermined public confidence in the vaccine. So, I'm not the one reaching here. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 5:42:22 GMT
“Why, then, did Joe Biden win and Hillary Clinton lose? Misogyny. |
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jul 21, 2021 17:24:21 GMT
I would be remiss if I did not point out in order to * eliminate the filibuster * eliminate gerrymandering in most states * put in voter protections One has to win elections on the local, state, & federal levels to address these issues. And you have me scratching my head about “deserving” to win. A political campaign is no different than an advertising campaign when you think about it. Each political party is trying to sell something to the American People in hopes of getting their votes. How is that different than an advertising campaign selling a new car? It’s not. The problems are. * you have one party with nothing to sell so the lie. A lot. * you have apathetic and ignorant voters The trick is to find a way to make, not only Democrats, but independents and some Republicans to “buy” the product the Democrats are selling. It isn’t easy because for far too long the Democrats have let the Republicans control the narrative about the product the Democrats are trying to sell. With very little pushback from the Democrats. Instead they end up making excuses. I was curious who voted for Joe Biden and found this article from the Washington Post. From the article… link“Why, then, did Joe Biden win and Hillary Clinton lose? Our exploration of YouGov/CBS polling provides an answer to that question. We find that in the decisive states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin), Biden exceeded his national performance among pure independents (the small fraction of voters that eschew all partisan leanings) and substantially bested Clinton’s 2016 showing among that group. He also managed to convert more former Trump voters than Trump did ex-Clinton voters. Ultimately, however, Biden’s improvement on Clinton’s effort was small, reflecting the extraordinary difficulty of winning a contemporary presidential election by a dominant margin in the Electoral College. Moreover, Biden’s win was in large part a repudiation of Trump, which did not carry over to House and Senate races, where Democrats did not meet expectations.” As to the voters, more than a few are apathetic or ignorant and it can be either genuine or deliberate ignorance. There are the voters looking for the perfect candidate that doesn’t exist and will never exist. Because we are humans and as such we are naturally flawed. There are voters that because they don’t agree 100% about what’s on a party’s platform they won’t for it. There are voters who absolutely hate certain social issues so they won’t vote for a candidate supporting them. All the time not realizing or caring those social issues won’t affect 99.9% of the population personally and how they live their lives. But what it does is dictate how groups of people should live. And the only reason they are voting this way is because they are uncomfortable with the idea that people should live their lives as who they are and not how others think they should. Which makes the sell job even harder. But if one believes in their product and wants change then one has to win elections which means the Democrats have to step up their game. And it should be a no brainer because the Republicans have nothing to offer the American People except lies. But yet for some reason the Democrats keep tripping over their own feet when it comes to combating the lies the Republicans tell. The Democrats have a solid agenda to sell to the people that actually helps people. They don’t need to lie about it. They just need to sell it based on the facts. But they had better get their act together because the clock is ticking. We can end the filibuster and pass voting protection legislation right now. This minute. And that will help us win elections and pass legislation down the road. As I said, Trumpers are not going to be convinced by anything we have to say. We simply have to take their unfettered legislative power away from them, right now, while we have the chance. We won’t have it again. Apparently Manchin and Sinema didn’t get the memo about ending the filibuster. Oh wait they did and they’re not interested. Any suggestions? Maybe we can get Luke Skywalker to do that force thing he does to get people to follow his instructions and aim it at Manchin & Sinema. But that brings up another point. Besides winning elections, we have to do with a big enough majority that we can ignore fools like these two. Its good to have great plans that will benefit the majority of Americans and not just the rich and corporations. But if you can’t implement them then they mean nothing. |
|
|
|
Post by pixiechick on Jul 21, 2021 23:40:47 GMT
I'm with you. There are far more peas that are so far left I just can't debate. I just read and cringe. While I think "wokeness" is a derogatory term used to desribe liberal leaning people, I don't disagree that the more Democrats push for such a far left agenda, the better chance Trump has to become president again. “Wokeness” A republicans derogatory term to describe people (more often than not liberals and progressives) who want to see people treated equally. Their religious views are not and should not be a matter of policy, nor should they be used to harm the lives of others (and they are). You mean some of these “socialist” ideas—- Defund the police? Actively the only people defunding the police are the Republican Party in congress (yet they scream that it’s the democrats)Equal rights, marriage for LBGTQ? The only party trying to eliminate gays are republicans, moderate-to far right. Equality for POC? Why then are republicans hell bent on suppressing their voices, treating them than lesser than? Their voting record in congress shows that they really don’t give a shit about POC. Defund the police? Actively the only people defunding the police are the Republican Party in congress (yet they scream that it’s the democrats) The Democrats have been the ones screaming for the defunding the police for about a year now. Only when it became a liability for them, they TRIED to turn it around on the Republicans. It's been thoroughly debunked. The White House got 3 Pinocchios from the Washington Post for trying to push that narrative. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 3:42:39 GMT
The White House got 3 Pinocchios from the Washington Post for trying to push that narrative. Link? |
|
|
|
Post by pixiechick on Jul 22, 2021 5:31:05 GMT
The White House got 3 Pinocchios from the Washington Post for trying to push that narrative. Link?
"The Pinocchio Test
We often fact-check claims in which huge spending bills are reduced to one cherry-picked expense out of thousands.
Story continues below advertisement
In this case, there’s not even a line item to attach to the White House’s claim that Republicans are trying to defund the police.
The American Rescue Plan devoted $350 billion to “state and local aid,” a pot of money that was designed for a variety of budget-plugging purposes. Among those is keeping police, teachers and emergency medical technicians at work, but going strictly by the bill text, lawmakers had no guarantee that police would get a slice of the pie.
What’s more, voting against a one-time infusion of cash is not the same as voting to cut funding, so there is little basis to claim that Republicans are trying to “defund the police.”
Psaki and the White House are on more solid ground by framing this talking point in terms of the COPS program, which some Republicans did vote to cut funding for as recently as the Trump administration. That’s the only thing keeping this talking point from being a Four Pinocchio claim.
Overall, we award Three Pinocchios."
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 5:33:37 GMT
From your link pixiechick: "The Facts Let’s define what it means to “defund the police,” a popular movement among some liberal activists that has so far gained little traction in Congress. Only in rare instances are proponents calling for the outright elimination of police departments. Advocates generally want to redirect some funds now spent on police forces to items such as education, public health, housing and youth services. The idea is that low-income communities would become stronger — and less in need of policing tactics — if root problems were addressed. Advertisement Under this concept, some police officers would be replaced with trained social workers or specialized response teams in an effort to let police focus on violent crime, not drug overdoses or homelessness. The theory is that police would be better positioned to deal with rapes and murders if they were not required to deal with other social ills that sometimes lead to community confrontations with police.
It’s not a theory Biden is pursuing." |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:41:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 5:35:23 GMT
So, I agree, it's stupid to say that, by withholding funding for COVID and recovery, the GOP was "defunding the police".
It's just as much of a lie and stupid to lay "defunding the police" on the Biden admin or "The Democrats" when what you REALLY mean is SOME Democrats and a TINY PERCENTAGE who want to "defund" without using those funds for different services.
|
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Jul 22, 2021 5:41:12 GMT
“Wokeness” A republicans derogatory term to describe people (more often than not liberals and progressives) who want to see people treated equally. Their religious views are not and should not be a matter of policy, nor should they be used to harm the lives of others (and they are). You mean some of these “socialist” ideas—- Defund the police? Actively the only people defunding the police are the Republican Party in congress (yet they scream that it’s the democrats)Equal rights, marriage for LBGTQ? The only party trying to eliminate gays are republicans, moderate-to far right. Equality for POC? Why then are republicans hell bent on suppressing their voices, treating them than lesser than? Their voting record in congress shows that they really don’t give a shit about POC. Defund the police? Actively the only people defunding the police are the Republican Party in congress (yet they scream that it’s the democrats) The Democrats have been the ones screaming for the defunding the police for about a year now. Only when it became a liability for them, they TRIED to turn it around on the Republicans. It's been thoroughly debunked. The White House got 3 Pinocchios from the Washington Post for trying to push that narrative. Edited to add. IMO nobody really knows what is intended by “defunding the police”. Everyone seems to have a different idea/view on what they expect to happen if police departments are defunded. But what it won’t do is solve the problems that plague some police departments across the country. From USA about the last stimulus bill passed that not one Republican voted for. “Here is some of what Republicans dislike: Money to state and local governments
The $350 billion to help cash-strapped states, cities and tribal governments confronting the pandemic has drawn ire from Republicans.Pointing to the ballooning national debt, GOP lawmakers say the state and local aid provision is an unnecessary part of a "liberal wish list" that would disproportionately benefit blue states that were quicker than red ones to shut down their economies and suffered larger financial loses.More:Democrats want to send $350B to cities and states with Biden's COVID-19 relief bill, but Republicans see it as wasteful"They want to send wheelbarrows of cash to state and local bureaucrats to bail out mismanagement from before the pandemic," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Wednesday. "They're changing the previous bipartisan funding formula in ways that will especially bias the money toward big blue states."Democratic lawmakers and a bipartisan coalition of mayors support the funding due to a double whammy saddling states and local government through no fault of their own: declining tax revenues from the economic shutdown and swelling public assistance needs.”Who pays the salaries of police officers? The city if they work for the city, the county if they work for the county, and the state if they work for the state. If a city, county or state’s budget is in the red cuts have to be made, the easiest item to cut is personal. When cuts have to be made usually no department is spared budget cuts. That would include not only the law enforcement agencies but the fire departments as well. It was all over the news the Republicans were against any money going to cities etc. Not one Republican voted for the bill that included this money to cities etc therefore their no vote was a vote to potentially force the layoffs in police departments if they had managed to defeat the bill or have that money removed from the bill. So technically they did vote to defund law enforcement agencies. Is it a stretch? Probably, but there is a lot of truth in it as well. So you can’t really say no they didn’t. When you talk about Democrats screaming to defund the police. How many? Is it all Democrats that are screaming? Or is it 75%? Or 50%? Or 25%? Or 5% or less than 5%? |
|
|
|
Post by pixiechick on Jul 22, 2021 6:17:30 GMT
Defund the police? Actively the only people defunding the police are the Republican Party in congress (yet they scream that it’s the democrats) The point I was making is that this is not true. ^ |
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jul 22, 2021 11:51:51 GMT
We can end the filibuster and pass voting protection legislation right now. This minute. And that will help us win elections and pass legislation down the road. As I said, Trumpers are not going to be convinced by anything we have to say. We simply have to take their unfettered legislative power away from them, right now, while we have the chance. We won’t have it again. Apparently Manchin and Sinema didn’t get the memo about ending the filibuster. Oh wait they did and they’re not interested. Any suggestions? Maybe we can get Luke Skywalker to do that force thing he does to get people to follow his instructions and aim it at Manchin & Sinema. But that brings up another point. Besides winning elections, we have to do with a big enough majority that we can ignore fools like these two. Its good to have great plans that will benefit the majority of Americans and not just the rich and corporations. But if you can’t implement them then they mean nothing. You don’t seem to grasp that under the current system, we have to win 1/3 more elections than the other side just to have a shot at 50% governance. In the current Fox-infused climate, that’s not sustainable. We can’t get our message out to people who have been brainwashed into thinking that we’re all socialists and that the mainstream media is fake news. Manchin and Sinema - not wokeness, or a center-left contingent that’s been painted as radical by Trump org - are the roadblock here. Without these reforms, it won’t matter how much further right we move or how much better we get at messaging. We will never have a meaningful ability to shape policy again in our lifetimes and probably beyond. |
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Jul 22, 2021 12:54:36 GMT
Trump did nothing but lie, gaslight, and downplay the virus (in addition to all the other lies he told.) NOTHING that came out of his anus-mouth could be trusted. Harris had no confidence in trump or his administration, just like 81 million other people. trump would’ve misled the public about the vaccine in some way had it come out while he was in office. You’re reaching…again. The vaccine DID come out while he was in office. Regardless of what kind of person Trump is, Kamala ALSO undermined public confidence in the vaccine. So, I'm not the one reaching here. Did she, or are you reading the Republican playbook again? What she actually said is that she doesn’t trust words coming out of Donnie’s mouth: "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it." |
|
|
|
Post by sideways on Jul 22, 2021 14:31:18 GMT
Trump did nothing but lie, gaslight, and downplay the virus (in addition to all the other lies he told.) NOTHING that came out of his anus-mouth could be trusted. Harris had no confidence in trump or his administration, just like 81 million other people. trump would’ve misled the public about the vaccine in some way had it come out while he was in office. You’re reaching…again. The vaccine DID come out while he was in office. Regardless of what kind of person Trump is, Kamala ALSO undermined public confidence in the vaccine. So, I'm not the one reaching here. Ok, Jan. 😆 |
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Jul 22, 2021 16:46:04 GMT
The vaccine DID come out while he was in office. Regardless of what kind of person Trump is, Kamala ALSO undermined public confidence in the vaccine. So, I'm not the one reaching here. Did she, or are you reading the Republican playbook again? What she actually said is that she doesn’t trust words coming out of Donnie’s mouth: "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it." We’ve had this discussion with her multiple times. She just likes repeating the falsehood. |
|
|
|
Post by pixiechick on Jul 22, 2021 20:51:21 GMT
The vaccine DID come out while he was in office. Regardless of what kind of person Trump is, Kamala ALSO undermined public confidence in the vaccine. So, I'm not the one reaching here. Did she, or are you reading the Republican playbook again? What she actually said is that she doesn’t trust words coming out of Donnie’s mouth: "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it." Yes, she did. She actually said the words "I won't take Coronavirus vaccine if"
So if you're going to apply the standard of undermining public confidence to Trumps words, “People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.” You have to apply the standard across the board. If you're going to make excuses for her "I won't take Coronavirus vaccine if" then excuses can be made for Trump's words too.
You can't have a standard that only applies to the person you don't like. |
|
