mimima
Drama Llama
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 5,104 
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Post by mimima on Sept 3, 2021 19:20:48 GMT
I know there are pro life peas on this board, I would be curious to hear their thoughts on this new law. I understand they might be reluctant to come forward, but I am genuinely curious to hear their thoughts and perspective. Are they celebrating? Is this law considered a victory? And here's something I struggle with. I know some people are opposed to abortion for moral or religious grounds. And that's perfectly OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But how do you justify imposing your moral or religious values on someone else? And if you're Republican and support smaller government, are against universal health care because you don't want the government involved, how do you justify the government interfering a health care decision that should be strictly between a woman and her doctor? If you're opposed to mask and vaccine mandates because my body, my choice, why are women not allowed the same freedoms? I can understand why white male politicians are pro life but have difficulty understanding why women are. I know these are probably rhetorical questions, but I really would like to hear someone try to explain the contradictions and hypocrisy. Apparently I must take joy in being called most of the vicious names in the dictionary because that is almost certainly what will happen if I respond to you her aj2hall. But I'll give your questions a go. I am pro life. How do I justify imposing my moral or religious views on others? Because to ME, abortion is murder. This is NOT simply a woman's right to her own body. There is another life involved here as well. A very innocent life that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation the mother finds herself in. I believe the state has a right to legislate laws against murder. For me, it was bad enough when abortion was mostly confined to the early stages of pregnancy. But when it became legal to destroy a fully formed baby practically up to the moment of birth, I stopped wavering (as I had for a long time) on whether a woman has a right to determine for herself if she is going to get an abortion or not. That settled it once and for all for me. And for many, many others. You ask how anyone who is opposed to mask and vaccine mandates can refuse to allow women the same choice. For me there is a huge difference: There is a viable, provable act of murder taking place in an abortion. Government has a right (even a duty) to protect the innocent victims. There is no use tossing the usual "whatabouts" at me (what about rape, incest, etc.) because I freely admit I do NOT know the answer to those. I just don't. And I don't pretend I do. I do believe that there are answers and humane ones, and I think we would come up with them if we needed to. I think for ME, I would not decry some very limited abortions. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I said I don't have the answers and I'm just being as honest with you as I can be. I am old. When I was young, abortion was illegal. And yes, women did take desperate measures. But not nearly as many women as you would be led to believe if you read many of the posts here. First, women were careful then as they KNEW they couldn't legally get an abortion. And it was not uncommon if someone get pregnant, for the family to ship her off to Aunt Ida in Idaho (or wherever) for a bit stating that it was a bit of a visit. The girl would come back and live her life as if she had never been pregnant. The baby would be adopted (there were--and still are--thousands of families longing to adopt in infant). And that brings me to another point. This endless canard that conservatives only care about the baby up til birth but have no interest in helping them or the family after the baby is born is just that--a canard. First---if abortion were illegal, I promise you there would be many, many less such babies being born. Remember, I lived in a time when abortion was illegal. Secondly, you have no idea how many conservative people are strongly involved in programs to help young mothers. And just to respond to another untrue statement which is a constant theme here: MOST OF US ARE IN FAVOR OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS--even FREE BIRTH CONTROL PILLS if the woman cannot afford them. I'd even go and help hand them out! Now onto this Texas bill and how this anti-abortion Pea feels about it. Obviously, I am glad that little babies will have a chance to grow up and live the lives they deserve. But I --and let me be very, VERY clear on this---I am astonished and appalled at the provisions in it. There is no way I am in favor of anyone having the right to turn anyone else in over abortion. To me that is simply abhorrent. In every possible way. Do I want abortion to be made illegal? Yes, I do. I think someday in the future we will look back on the millions of little ones lost to abortion and be revolted that we ever, ever thought this was not a crime. But that said, it would be enough for me (and many others like me) to change the law to make abortion illegal and THEN it becomes the woman's decision as to whether she is going to flout that law or not. I am most certainly not in favor of this Nazi-type law Texas has passed where neighbors are spying on neighbors. I've done my best to respond to you honestly. And please keep in mind that I didn't have to put myself out there to the commentary that is almost certain to come back at me. But sometimes, I think a conservative should just suck it up and present the other side. I come from a family who had a mother who died from an illegal abortion, leaving behind two young children, in the 1930s. She was a devout Catholic. I am appalled at the thought that women somehow don't get pregnant when abortion is illegal - and that it is preferable to send women away to breed children to adopt out with no repercussions to themselves. I definitely struggle with the idea of abortion, but don't think that the answer is making them illegal. Especially with vigilante reporting. I also think that the pandemic has shown that we, as a society, are not pro-life by any definition. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 3, 2021 19:27:21 GMT
If it’s really about saving “life” (which I don’t believe that’s what theses “abortion” laws are about), then—
Why not begin at education?
Why not teach about safe sex and accessible birth control?
Why not hold rapists and those who commit incest accountable both with lifetime punishment and financial responsibility?
(Because that’s what these laws sure do to burden women)
Why not support health, medical and other initiatives for women, children, low income, POC?
NOPE—they decided that they needed to further punish women, hold them and only them accountable, out all the responsibilities of raising an unplanned, unwanted, rape victim, or difficult birth on the woman.
They ramped it all up under “religious beliefs” which politicians campaigned on, making it a political issue, and when they succeed in writing these horrible laws, they’re rewarded with power and money.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:29:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 19:29:20 GMT
Because to ME, abortion is murder. This is NOT simply a woman's right to her own body. There is another life involved here as well. And the other life is INSIDE HER BODY and while it is INSIDE HER BODY it is up to HER whether to carry it or not (but the SCOTUS has limited her choce to viability or about 20 weeks and then the woman can only abort under very strict conditions that are none of your business - they are between the woman and her medical professionals). Do you see the difference? No. Of course not. How about all those embryos destroyed as part of invitro? Are you up on your high horse and ensuring we don't do invitro anymore because of the loss of all those little lives?I'm guessing not - but surprise me and be unhypocritical and consistent in your worry about "lives". |
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Post by snowsilver on Sept 3, 2021 19:31:29 GMT
How is it NOT murder? Isn't taking innocent life (and I doubt any of us would argue that that little baby isn't innocent) murder?? What on earth can it be? Medical evidence has proven that fetuses cannot live, unsupported—even with a respirator before at least 20 weeks. Scientific evidence proves that fetuses cannot feel anything/have pain before at least 24 weeks, because the fetuses lack the brain connectivity to do so. So, despite medical and scientific evidence, pro-lifers can pretend/have the OPINION that a fetus is indistinguishable from a baby/child when science and medicine prove otherwise. Do you think every egg that has been fertilized in a woman’s body that doesn’t make it (not viable) to birth is abortion? Do you think that harvesting a legally brain dead persons organs for transplant is murder? It’s a human life, right? So that is why abortion is not murder. (Not to mention that legally, in addition to science and medicine it is not) Babies born before 20-24 weeks have less than a 50 percent chance of life. Today. Who knows what scientific advances lie ahead? And there is solid evidence that a baby DOES feel pain before 24 weeks. But that is NOT the point. I didn't discuss either of these things. I said murder is the taking of innocent live. Whether or not they feel pain--or whether or not they can survive outside the womb, does not negate the fact that they are alive. I am aware that I cannot/will not change your opinion PCA. That's not what I was trying to do here. I was simply trying to respond as a conservative who is opposed to abortion, to the post above asking for someone to do so. I'll say this last thing--the fact that the LAW says abortion is not murder does not in any way make it so. There have been horrible laws throughout the existence of humanity--many of which are looked upon with horror today. Anyway, I was just trying to give an honest answer to an honest question. Thank you for your comments. I hope that the fact that I probably won't engage further won't leave me open to the "post and run" accusation. There is an old saying that a "man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I think that is very true and any arguments I might make won't change any minds at all. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 3, 2021 19:31:53 GMT
I know there are pro life peas on this board, I would be curious to hear their thoughts on this new law. I understand they might be reluctant to come forward, but I am genuinely curious to hear their thoughts and perspective. Are they celebrating? Is this law considered a victory? And here's something I struggle with. I know some people are opposed to abortion for moral or religious grounds. And that's perfectly OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But how do you justify imposing your moral or religious values on someone else? And if you're Republican and support smaller government, are against universal health care because you don't want the government involved, how do you justify the government interfering a health care decision that should be strictly between a woman and her doctor? If you're opposed to mask and vaccine mandates because my body, my choice, why are women not allowed the same freedoms? I can understand why white male politicians are pro life but have difficulty understanding why women are. I know these are probably rhetorical questions, but I really would like to hear someone try to explain the contradictions and hypocrisy. Apparently I must take joy in being called most of the vicious names in the dictionary because that is almost certainly what will happen if I respond to you her aj2hall. But I'll give your questions a go. I am pro life. How do I justify imposing my moral or religious views on others? Because to ME, abortion is murder. This is NOT simply a woman's right to her own body. There is another life involved here as well. A very innocent life that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation the mother finds herself in. I believe the state has a right to legislate laws against murder. For me, it was bad enough when abortion was mostly confined to the early stages of pregnancy. But when it became legal to destroy a fully formed baby practically up to the moment of birth, I stopped wavering (as I had for a long time) on whether a woman has a right to determine for herself if she is going to get an abortion or not. That settled it once and for all for me. And for many, many others. You ask how anyone who is opposed to mask and vaccine mandates can refuse to allow women the same choice. For me there is a huge difference: There is a viable, provable act of murder taking place in an abortion. Government has a right (even a duty) to protect the innocent victims. There is no use tossing the usual "whatabouts" at me (what about rape, incest, etc.) because I freely admit I do NOT know the answer to those. I just don't. And I don't pretend I do. I do believe that there are answers and humane ones, and I think we would come up with them if we needed to. I think for ME, I would not decry some very limited abortions. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I said I don't have the answers and I'm just being as honest with you as I can be. I am old. When I was young, abortion was illegal. And yes, women did take desperate measures. But not nearly as many women as you would be led to believe if you read many of the posts here. First, women were careful then as they KNEW they couldn't legally get an abortion. And it was not uncommon if someone get pregnant, for the family to ship her off to Aunt Ida in Idaho (or wherever) for a bit stating that it was a bit of a visit. The girl would come back and live her life as if she had never been pregnant. The baby would be adopted (there were--and still are--thousands of families longing to adopt in infant). And that brings me to another point. This endless canard that conservatives only care about the baby up til birth but have no interest in helping them or the family after the baby is born is just that--a canard. First---if abortion were illegal, I promise you there would be many, many less such babies being born. Remember, I lived in a time when abortion was illegal. Secondly, you have no idea how many conservative people are strongly involved in programs to help young mothers. And just to respond to another untrue statement which is a constant theme here: MOST OF US ARE IN FAVOR OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS--even FREE BIRTH CONTROL PILLS if the woman cannot afford them. I'd even go and help hand them out! Now onto this Texas bill and how this anti-abortion Pea feels about it. Obviously, I am glad that little babies will have a chance to grow up and live the lives they deserve. But I --and let me be very, VERY clear on this---I am astonished and appalled at the provisions in it. There is no way I am in favor of anyone having the right to turn anyone else in over abortion. To me that is simply abhorrent. In every possible way. Do I want abortion to be made illegal? Yes, I do. I think someday in the future we will look back on the millions of little ones lost to abortion and be revolted that we ever, ever thought this was not a crime. But that said, it would be enough for me (and many others like me) to change the law to make abortion illegal and THEN it becomes the woman's decision as to whether she is going to flout that law or not. I am most certainly not in favor of this Nazi-type law Texas has passed where neighbors are spying on neighbors. I've done my best to respond to you honestly. And please keep in mind that I didn't have to put myself out there to the commentary that is almost certain to come back at me. But sometimes, I think a conservative should just suck it up and present the other side. Snowsilver, I don’t agree with you, but I do thank you for your post.  |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,066
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Post by pinklady on Sept 3, 2021 19:34:31 GMT
I know there are pro life peas on this board, I would be curious to hear their thoughts on this new law. I understand they might be reluctant to come forward, but I am genuinely curious to hear their thoughts and perspective. Are they celebrating? Is this law considered a victory? And here's something I struggle with. I know some people are opposed to abortion for moral or religious grounds. And that's perfectly OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But how do you justify imposing your moral or religious values on someone else? And if you're Republican and support smaller government, are against universal health care because you don't want the government involved, how do you justify the government interfering a health care decision that should be strictly between a woman and her doctor? If you're opposed to mask and vaccine mandates because my body, my choice, why are women not allowed the same freedoms? I can understand why white male politicians are pro life but have difficulty understanding why women are. I know these are probably rhetorical questions, but I really would like to hear someone try to explain the contradictions and hypocrisy. Apparently I must take joy in being called most of the vicious names in the dictionary because that is almost certainly what will happen if I respond to you her aj2hall. But I'll give your questions a go. I am pro life. How do I justify imposing my moral or religious views on others? Because to ME, abortion is murder. This is NOT simply a woman's right to her own body. There is another life involved here as well. A very innocent life that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation the mother finds herself in. I believe the state has a right to legislate laws against murder. For me, it was bad enough when abortion was mostly confined to the early stages of pregnancy. But when it became legal to destroy a fully formed baby practically up to the moment of birth, I stopped wavering (as I had for a long time) on whether a woman has a right to determine for herself if she is going to get an abortion or not. That settled it once and for all for me. And for many, many others. You ask how anyone who is opposed to mask and vaccine mandates can refuse to allow women the same choice. For me there is a huge difference: There is a viable, provable act of murder taking place in an abortion. Government has a right (even a duty) to protect the innocent victims. There is no use tossing the usual "whatabouts" at me (what about rape, incest, etc.) because I freely admit I do NOT know the answer to those. I just don't. And I don't pretend I do. I do believe that there are answers and humane ones, and I think we would come up with them if we needed to. I think for ME, I would not decry some very limited abortions. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I said I don't have the answers and I'm just being as honest with you as I can be. I am old. When I was young, abortion was illegal. And yes, women did take desperate measures. But not nearly as many women as you would be led to believe if you read many of the posts here. First, women were careful then as they KNEW they couldn't legally get an abortion. And it was not uncommon if someone get pregnant, for the family to ship her off to Aunt Ida in Idaho (or wherever) for a bit stating that it was a bit of a visit. The girl would come back and live her life as if she had never been pregnant. The baby would be adopted (there were--and still are--thousands of families longing to adopt in infant). And that brings me to another point. This endless canard that conservatives only care about the baby up til birth but have no interest in helping them or the family after the baby is born is just that--a canard. First---if abortion were illegal, I promise you there would be many, many less such babies being born. Remember, I lived in a time when abortion was illegal. Secondly, you have no idea how many conservative people are strongly involved in programs to help young mothers. And just to respond to another untrue statement which is a constant theme here: MOST OF US ARE IN FAVOR OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS--even FREE BIRTH CONTROL PILLS if the woman cannot afford them. I'd even go and help hand them out! Now onto this Texas bill and how this anti-abortion Pea feels about it. Obviously, I am glad that little babies will have a chance to grow up and live the lives they deserve. But I --and let me be very, VERY clear on this---I am astonished and appalled at the provisions in it. There is no way I am in favor of anyone having the right to turn anyone else in over abortion. To me that is simply abhorrent. In every possible way. Do I want abortion to be made illegal? Yes, I do. I think someday in the future we will look back on the millions of little ones lost to abortion and be revolted that we ever, ever thought this was not a crime. But that said, it would be enough for me (and many others like me) to change the law to make abortion illegal and THEN it becomes the woman's decision as to whether she is going to flout that law or not. I am most certainly not in favor of this Nazi-type law Texas has passed where neighbors are spying on neighbors. I've done my best to respond to you honestly. And please keep in mind that I didn't have to put myself out there to the commentary that is almost certain to come back at me. But sometimes, I think a conservative should just suck it up and present the other side. You are a deeply disturbed vile human being who I hope one day will rot in hell for you beliefs. You are NOT pro-life, you are pro-birth. You don’t give a flying fuck what happens to that “little baby” once it’s born. You are just sick! |
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 18:29:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 19:38:39 GMT
This should convince you it's about CONTROLLING WOMEN!!!!! "Even in Alabama, Senator Clyde Chambliss, who sponsored the bill that effectively banned abortion in the state, has no problem with discarding the embryos produced by IVF. In his words: “The egg in the lab doesn’t apply. It’s not in a woman. She’s not pregnant.” www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a27888471/why-anti-choice-people-against-abortion-are-okay-with-ivf/So, it's not about the "life" it's about THE WOMAN. ps - Clyde - I thought it wasn't just an "egg" anymore if it's fertilized - it's A PERSON, right? Get your story straight my dude. |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,064
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Sept 3, 2021 19:45:21 GMT
I know there are pro life peas on this board, I would be curious to hear their thoughts on this new law. I understand they might be reluctant to come forward, but I am genuinely curious to hear their thoughts and perspective. Are they celebrating? Is this law considered a victory? And here's something I struggle with. I know some people are opposed to abortion for moral or religious grounds. And that's perfectly OK, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But how do you justify imposing your moral or religious values on someone else? And if you're Republican and support smaller government, are against universal health care because you don't want the government involved, how do you justify the government interfering a health care decision that should be strictly between a woman and her doctor? If you're opposed to mask and vaccine mandates because my body, my choice, why are women not allowed the same freedoms? I can understand why white male politicians are pro life but have difficulty understanding why women are. I know these are probably rhetorical questions, but I really would like to hear someone try to explain the contradictions and hypocrisy. Apparently I must take joy in being called most of the vicious names in the dictionary because that is almost certainly what will happen if I respond to you her aj2hall. But I'll give your questions a go. I am pro life. How do I justify imposing my moral or religious views on others? Because to ME, abortion is murder. This is NOT simply a woman's right to her own body. There is another life involved here as well. A very innocent life that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation the mother finds herself in. I believe the state has a right to legislate laws against murder. For me, it was bad enough when abortion was mostly confined to the early stages of pregnancy. But when it became legal to destroy a fully formed baby practically up to the moment of birth, I stopped wavering (as I had for a long time) on whether a woman has a right to determine for herself if she is going to get an abortion or not. That settled it once and for all for me. And for many, many others. You ask how anyone who is opposed to mask and vaccine mandates can refuse to allow women the same choice. For me there is a huge difference: There is a viable, provable act of murder taking place in an abortion. Government has a right (even a duty) to protect the innocent victims. There is no use tossing the usual "whatabouts" at me (what about rape, incest, etc.) because I freely admit I do NOT know the answer to those. I just don't. And I don't pretend I do. I do believe that there are answers and humane ones, and I think we would come up with them if we needed to. I think for ME, I would not decry some very limited abortions. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I said I don't have the answers and I'm just being as honest with you as I can be. I am old. When I was young, abortion was illegal. And yes, women did take desperate measures. But not nearly as many women as you would be led to believe if you read many of the posts here. First, women were careful then as they KNEW they couldn't legally get an abortion. And it was not uncommon if someone get pregnant, for the family to ship her off to Aunt Ida in Idaho (or wherever) for a bit stating that it was a bit of a visit. The girl would come back and live her life as if she had never been pregnant. The baby would be adopted (there were--and still are--thousands of families longing to adopt in infant). And that brings me to another point. This endless canard that conservatives only care about the baby up til birth but have no interest in helping them or the family after the baby is born is just that--a canard. First---if abortion were illegal, I promise you there would be many, many less such babies being born. Remember, I lived in a time when abortion was illegal. Secondly, you have no idea how many conservative people are strongly involved in programs to help young mothers. And just to respond to another untrue statement which is a constant theme here: MOST OF US ARE IN FAVOR OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS--even FREE BIRTH CONTROL PILLS if the woman cannot afford them. I'd even go and help hand them out! Now onto this Texas bill and how this anti-abortion Pea feels about it. Obviously, I am glad that little babies will have a chance to grow up and live the lives they deserve. But I --and let me be very, VERY clear on this---I am astonished and appalled at the provisions in it. There is no way I am in favor of anyone having the right to turn anyone else in over abortion. To me that is simply abhorrent. In every possible way. Do I want abortion to be made illegal? Yes, I do. I think someday in the future we will look back on the millions of little ones lost to abortion and be revolted that we ever, ever thought this was not a crime. But that said, it would be enough for me (and many others like me) to change the law to make abortion illegal and THEN it becomes the woman's decision as to whether she is going to flout that law or not. I am most certainly not in favor of this Nazi-type law Texas has passed where neighbors are spying on neighbors. I've done my best to respond to you honestly. And please keep in mind that I didn't have to put myself out there to the commentary that is almost certain to come back at me. But sometimes, I think a conservative should just suck it up and present the other side. Thanks for the thoughtful response Elise, you know I respect you for all the world my dear dear friend. I agree with a lot of what you say, but for me I do still stand with a woman's autonomy over her own body and feel strongly that its still her choice and its her sin to bear when making that decision. As much as it goes against my faith this Texas decision was the tipping point for me and as sickened at I am the thought of an almost full term baby being aborted (and I knew this backlash would come because of it) I still support a woman's right to chose. |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,064
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Sept 3, 2021 19:48:48 GMT
You are a deeply disturbed vile human being who I hope one day will rot in hell for you beliefs. You are NOT pro-life, you are pro-birth. You don’t give a flying fuck what happens to that “little baby” once it’s born. You are just sick! YOU are the deeply disturbed vile sick one here, not Elise. You live for spitting out this sort of hate. You are a sad, hateful person and I'm glad I don't know you IRL. I get the feeling you wear two faces IRL and take out all your life's disappointments on the women who post here. |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,305
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Post by lindas on Sept 3, 2021 19:59:54 GMT
You are a deeply disturbed vile human being who I hope one day will rot in hell for you beliefs. You are NOT pro-life, you are pro-birth. You don’t give a flying fuck what happens to that “little baby” once it’s born. You are just sick! YOU are the deeply disturbed vile sick one here, not Elise. You live for spitting out this sort of hate. You are a sad, hateful person and I'm glad I don't know you IRL. I get the feeling you wear two faces IRL and take out all your life's disappointments on the women who post here.  and  |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,305
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Post by lindas on Sept 3, 2021 20:07:30 GMT
I’ll bite. I’m pro-life and I think the Texas law is disgusting so no, I’m not celebrating. I don’t think the government should be involved in my personal medical decisions. As far as mandates go the opposition is largely fueled by politics. If you could take the politics out of it I think most people, with the exception of a small minority, would comply. You said “ I can understand why white male politicians are pro life but have difficulty understanding why women are.” What about women who can’t have children but desperately want them. You don’t think they are pro-life? By pro-life do you support other women’s choice to have an abortion? Personally, I don’t think I could have an abortion, but recognize that I am privileged and never had to face that decision. I fully support the choice for other women. Also privileged and never had to face infertility. And I recognize hat it’s another situation you probably can’t know what you would do unless you were in those shoes. If I was unable to have children but wanted them, I think or hope that I would recognize that there are many ways to create families. As sad as I might be about abortions, I would hope that I would not impose my choice, my values, my morals on other women. I thought I made myself clear. I’m pro-life but it’s not up to me or the government to tell someone what they can or can’t do regarding their medical choices. If a woman chooses abortion that’s her decision, my feelings one way or the other play no part in it and I have no intention of trying to impose those feelings on anyone. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,066
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Post by pinklady on Sept 3, 2021 20:11:32 GMT
You are a deeply disturbed vile human being who I hope one day will rot in hell for you beliefs. You are NOT pro-life, you are pro-birth. You don’t give a flying fuck what happens to that “little baby” once it’s born. You are just sick! YOU are the deeply disturbed vile sick one here, not Elise. You live for spitting out this sort of hate. You are a sad, hateful person and I'm glad I don't know you IRL. I get the feeling you wear two faces IRL and take out all your life's disappointments on the women who post here. Unlike you I will never thank someone and tell them I respect them for telling me or any woman we shouldn’t have full control over our body! NEVER! If that makes me vile and evil so be it. |
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Post by kiera on Sept 3, 2021 20:11:45 GMT
I am so, so thankful that I live in New York. We are far from a perfect state but at least we're progressive and see women as human beings. My heart absolutely breaks for the women and girls in Texas and I'm terrified to see how many other states will follow. Even though I live in a progressive state that would never allow this bullshit to pass (knock wood), this just fuels my desire to get over my fear of surgery and find a doctor who will remove my tubes. I do not want kids, ever, and if my contraception ever failed I'd be first in line to get the cells - yes, cells, not a baby - scraped out without fear of having a BOUNTY placed on my head. It's a good thing I'm single, I can work on getting past the anxieties and find a doctor who will sterilize a childless woman at my own pace.
Texas, you may as well change your name to Gilead.
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compeateropeator
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,381
Member is Online
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Post by compeateropeator on Sept 3, 2021 20:18:51 GMT
The fact of the matter is legally, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER. Just because some people THINK it is just does not make it so. A person’s religious beliefs and OPINIONS are not laws that are used to regulate another persons health, body, medical, mental choices. How is it NOT murder? Isn't taking innocent life (and I doubt any of us would argue that that little baby isn't innocent) murder?? What on earth can it be? I understand your reasoning and respect that you live within your Christian tenets. I also don’t believe that you have the right to legislate that other people have to live by them. I don’t understand how you can declare that murder but people who engage in wars not murderers. They are purposely engaging in killing people…fully formed people who are fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, someone’s loved one, etc. We also know that there is always collateral damage and civilians get killed…fully formed little kids, babies, teenagers, etc. No matter what the cause or how much good it will bring, war is intentional murder. That is just the bottom line. We have been told by many pro lifer’s (and in the case of most abortion laws) there is never a reason for murder, never. We have not been told that a women has the right to make a hard, painful, gut wrenching, life altering decisions with her medical Dr for reasons that we should not be privy to…just that it is murder and innocent people are involved. Yet many have a completely opposite attitude for people who are killing in the name of good and/or God in whatever war you look at. I just don’t understand the disconnect or difference if you believe so strongly in the right to life. 🤷♀️ I do not consider abortion murder as it is not viable human life, but it will be at some point. There is a huge difference between an abortion at 6 weeks and at 8 or 9 months or “practically up to the moment of birth”. Not to imply that it has never happened, but late term abortions rare and 92% are performed before 13 weeks. The 1.2% that are performer after 21 weeks or “up to the moment of birth” are between the patient and their Dr. Sorry, I am sure this is all over the place and I can’t articulate it very well…but basically I think there is some hypocrisy happening with some who take the pro life stance. Again this is just MY opinion. |
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Post by dewryce on Sept 3, 2021 20:47:08 GMT
Even if those lives consist of abuse and neglect? What about the ones starving? I guess they deserve that life?  Exactly Bridget. Let’s not pretend that these unviable, unwanted, or unable to be taken care of little babies are mostly going to be living glowing lives. Some won’t even be living at all. What about the ones being forced to be born only to suffer until they die because they have issues that are not compatible with life outside the womb? And a big issue that I have with voting for this pro-life issue, is that you are ALSO voting for so many laws that will negatively impact many of these fetuses you are forcing to birth until the day they die, even if that’s when they’re 90. I truly thinks it’s wonderful when people personally do things that help them. It’s not enough. It’s not NEAR enough to make up for the damage their vote causes to so many lives, for these issues and hundreds of others. If you truly want less abortions, and please don’t give me ‘no abortions’ as that is simply never.ever.ever going to happen (especially with the information available via the Internet these days) then why vote for a party that actively works against sexual education and health care (including birth control) for women? Just look at the data on teen pregnancies. Pretty much across the board much higher in red states. There are many studies that have shown the huge reduction in abortions just from improvement of these two issues. I want to say that in Colorado, in the first year or two of making long term birth control easily available and affordable, teen pregnancies (or abortions?) went down 40%. In one or two years. Imagine the improvements that could be made if your vote works in favor of THOSE types of improvements? Many fewer abortions, many fewer children born only to die, unloved, unwanted, and not able to be taken care of. Money can instead go towards other social programs or simply to improve what is already available. Towards making a better foster care system. Think about it. Oh yeah, bonus, and women can remain in control of their bodies and their own medical decisions. I also take issue with the extreme hypocrisy of those that are pro-life for fetuses, but also support allowing anyone to walk around in public, in schools, unmasked not knowing if they have a disease that could literally kill the next person they come in contact with. And/or someone in that person’s family. And snowsilver , this is not directed at you, I appreciate you posting your views. And I don’t think you live in Texas, but for those women that are pro-life and believe as you do that this particular law is asinine, will that change their votes in the next election? I do have a question for you, you say that most of you are in favor of free birth control, yet you all vote against it when it could make such an enormous positive impact (negative) impact on unwanted pregnancies. Just that one thing simple change. Knowing that abortions will never go away, I don’t understand logic in not voting for laws that can quickly bring about such a huge decrease in abortions within a few years. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 3, 2021 23:10:45 GMT
Medical evidence has proven that fetuses cannot live, unsupported—even with a respirator before at least 20 weeks. Scientific evidence proves that fetuses cannot feel anything/have pain before at least 24 weeks, because the fetuses lack the brain connectivity to do so. So, despite medical and scientific evidence, pro-lifers can pretend/have the OPINION that a fetus is indistinguishable from a baby/child when science and medicine prove otherwise. Do you think every egg that has been fertilized in a woman’s body that doesn’t make it (not viable) to birth is abortion? Do you think that harvesting a legally brain dead persons organs for transplant is murder? It’s a human life, right? So that is why abortion is not murder. (Not to mention that legally, in addition to science and medicine it is not) Babies born before 20-24 weeks have less than a 50 percent chance of life. Today. Who knows what scientific advances lie ahead? And there is solid evidence that a baby DOES feel pain before 24 weeks. But that is NOT the point. I didn't discuss either of these things. I said murder is the taking of innocent live. Whether or not they feel pain--or whether or not they can survive outside the womb, does not negate the fact that they are alive. I am aware that I cannot/will not change your opinion PCA. That's not what I was trying to do here. I was simply trying to respond as a conservative who is opposed to abortion, to the post above asking for someone to do so. I'll say this last thing--the fact that the LAW says abortion is not murder does not in any way make it so. There have been horrible laws throughout the existence of humanity--many of which are looked upon with horror today. Anyway, I was just trying to give an honest answer to an honest question. Thank you for your comments. I hope that the fact that I probably won't engage further won't leave me open to the "post and run" accusation. There is an old saying that a "man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I think that is very true and any arguments I might make won't change any minds at all. I answered the question you posed. I wasn’t asking you to change my mind. I responded With facts, not opinions or what I personally think. Or what it means to me. Or what religious beliefs are out there. And LEGALLY abortion is not murder does absolutely, 100%, unequivocally make it so. You cannot just choose—because if your feelings or opinions what legal precedents/legislation/laws you’re going to follow. Fertile eggs—20-24 week fetuses are not children, not babies as they are not viable on their own. I don’t really care if you’re “pro-birth” or not. I care that government is trying to legislate MY body, MY choice. People who feel like you DO NOT get to decide for me what religious beliefs are forced upon me. And I’ll say this because it’s true for your most recent posting history—you’re a master at the gaslighting victimization—you start with the passive aggressive “peas are going to call me the most vile names in the dictionary” out of the gate, and you end with more of the same—that you’re going to get dragged. |
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pyccku on Sept 3, 2021 23:56:44 GMT
A government that can force you to carry an unwanted child can just as easily force you to abort a wanted one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 23:58:37 GMT
I will never thank someone and tell them I respect them I'm getting tired of thanking and respecting those who kick me and my kids in the teeth - whether due to LGBTQ issues, abortion, or any number of other areas in which they want to control our lives. |
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Post by snowsilver on Sept 4, 2021 0:07:34 GMT
Babies born before 20-24 weeks have less than a 50 percent chance of life. Today. Who knows what scientific advances lie ahead? And there is solid evidence that a baby DOES feel pain before 24 weeks. But that is NOT the point. I didn't discuss either of these things. I said murder is the taking of innocent live. Whether or not they feel pain--or whether or not they can survive outside the womb, does not negate the fact that they are alive. I am aware that I cannot/will not change your opinion PCA. That's not what I was trying to do here. I was simply trying to respond as a conservative who is opposed to abortion, to the post above asking for someone to do so. I'll say this last thing--the fact that the LAW says abortion is not murder does not in any way make it so. There have been horrible laws throughout the existence of humanity--many of which are looked upon with horror today. Anyway, I was just trying to give an honest answer to an honest question. Thank you for your comments. I hope that the fact that I probably won't engage further won't leave me open to the "post and run" accusation. There is an old saying that a "man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I think that is very true and any arguments I might make won't change any minds at all. I answered the question you posed. I wasn’t asking you to change my mind. I responded With facts, not opinions or what I personally think. Or what it means to me. Or what religious beliefs are out there. And LEGALLY abortion is not murder does absolutely, 100%, unequivocally make it so. You cannot just choose—because if your feelings or opinions what legal precedents/legislation/laws you’re going to follow. Fertile eggs—20-24 week fetuses are not children, not babies as they are not viable on their own. I don’t really care if you’re “pro-birth” or not. I care that government is trying to legislate MY body, MY choice. People who feel like you DO NOT get to decide for me what religious beliefs are forced upon me. And I’ll say this because it’s true for your most recent posting history—you’re a master at the gaslighting victimization—you start with the passive aggressive “peas are going to call me the most vile names in the dictionary” out of the gate, and you end with more of the same—that you’re going to get dragged. Well you intrigued me. I went back and checked my posts all the way to June. Here they are in order: Yesterday: I responded with information on the FB Portal thread. Aug. 26: I posted on the 4 Hospitals, 2 ICU thread stating I appreciated the info on Covid in Alaska Aug. 25: I posted on the Echo Show/Portal thread again giving my personal experience with the Portal Aug. 21: I posted on the Food Processor thread stating that I love my Breville Aug. 1: I posted my condolences on the 23rd Anniversary/MIL died thread June 26: I posted on the What Brings You Joy Today stating that it was seeing some kind person mowing my elderly neighbor's lawn June 25: I posted on the Murdoch Mysteries thread June 19: I posted my condolences on the Goodbye Champ thread stating the Bidens had lost their dog. June 9: I posted that I cannot tie a bow for the life of me on the thread asking what we, as adults cannot do June 8: I posted that I absolutely do overpack on the Do You Overpack for Vacation thread That's enough boring information. I actually went back all the way to the first of the year and there was not a SINGLE thread where I played "victim" as you term it with the exception of this one. So, I would say that I have pretty well covered what you call my "most recent posting history" pretty well. I think maybe the gaslighting is not on my end. Anyway, I appreciate those who kindly responded to my opinion on this thread even if they didn't agree with me (which quite frankly NO ONE did--but I still appreciated the discussion). |
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 4, 2021 0:29:58 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 4, 2021 0:54:12 GMT
I answered the question you posed. I wasn’t asking you to change my mind. I responded With facts, not opinions or what I personally think. Or what it means to me. Or what religious beliefs are out there. And LEGALLY abortion is not murder does absolutely, 100%, unequivocally make it so. You cannot just choose—because if your feelings or opinions what legal precedents/legislation/laws you’re going to follow. Fertile eggs—20-24 week fetuses are not children, not babies as they are not viable on their own. I don’t really care if you’re “pro-birth” or not. I care that government is trying to legislate MY body, MY choice. People who feel like you DO NOT get to decide for me what religious beliefs are forced upon me. And I’ll say this because it’s true for your most recent posting history—you’re a master at the gaslighting victimization—you start with the passive aggressive “peas are going to call me the most vile names in the dictionary” out of the gate, and you end with more of the same—that you’re going to get dragged. Well you intrigued me. I went back and checked my posts all the way to June. Here they are in order: Yesterday: I responded with information on the FB Portal thread. Aug. 26: I posted on the 4 Hospitals, 2 ICU thread stating I appreciated the info on Covid in Alaska Aug. 25: I posted on the Echo Show/Portal thread again giving my personal experience with the Portal Aug. 21: I posted on the Food Processor thread stating that I love my Breville Aug. 1: I posted my condolences on the 23rd Anniversary/MIL died thread June 26: I posted on the What Brings You Joy Today stating that it was seeing some kind person mowing my elderly neighbor's lawn June 25: I posted on the Murdoch Mysteries thread June 19: I posted my condolences on the Goodbye Champ thread stating the Bidens had lost their dog. June 9: I posted that I cannot tie a bow for the life of me on the thread asking what we, as adults cannot do June 8: I posted that I absolutely do overpack on the Do You Overpack for Vacation thread That's enough boring information. I actually went back all the way to the first of the year and there was not a SINGLE thread where I played "victim" as you term it with the exception of this one. So, I would say that I have pretty well covered what you call my "most recent posting history" pretty well. I think maybe the gaslighting is not on my end. Anyway, I appreciate those who kindly responded to my opinion on this thread even if they didn't agree with me (which quite frankly NO ONE did--but I still appreciated the discussion). I responded kindly and civilly. I didn’t call you names. I responded with facts. And while I should have been specific in speaking about your posting on controversial subjects, you really of negated yourself by posting that history list—I guess the great majority of peas aren’t really being nasty to you or “calling you all the vile names in the dictionary”, now are they? It’s just when you post on controversial threads, that you’ll be the passive aggressive poster, when you know others will present an opposing viewpoint or come armed with facts. And you knew exactly what I was talking about too. |
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Post by snowsilver on Sept 4, 2021 1:02:31 GMT
Well you intrigued me. I went back and checked my posts all the way to June. Here they are in order: Yesterday: I responded with information on the FB Portal thread. Aug. 26: I posted on the 4 Hospitals, 2 ICU thread stating I appreciated the info on Covid in Alaska Aug. 25: I posted on the Echo Show/Portal thread again giving my personal experience with the Portal Aug. 21: I posted on the Food Processor thread stating that I love my Breville Aug. 1: I posted my condolences on the 23rd Anniversary/MIL died thread June 26: I posted on the What Brings You Joy Today stating that it was seeing some kind person mowing my elderly neighbor's lawn June 25: I posted on the Murdoch Mysteries thread June 19: I posted my condolences on the Goodbye Champ thread stating the Bidens had lost their dog. June 9: I posted that I cannot tie a bow for the life of me on the thread asking what we, as adults cannot do June 8: I posted that I absolutely do overpack on the Do You Overpack for Vacation thread That's enough boring information. I actually went back all the way to the first of the year and there was not a SINGLE thread where I played "victim" as you term it with the exception of this one. So, I would say that I have pretty well covered what you call my "most recent posting history" pretty well. I think maybe the gaslighting is not on my end. Anyway, I appreciate those who kindly responded to my opinion on this thread even if they didn't agree with me (which quite frankly NO ONE did--but I still appreciated the discussion). I responded kindly and civilly. I didn’t call you names. I responded with facts. And while I should have been specific in speaking about your posting on controversial subjects, you really of negated yourself by posting that history list—I guess the great majority of peas aren’t really being nasty to you or “calling you all the vile names in the dictionary”, now are they? It’s just when you post on controversial threads, that you’ll be the passive aggressive poster, when you know others will present an opposing viewpoint or come armed with facts. And you knew exactly what I was talking about too. ACK, OK, lady. I hand you the baton and bow out. Tit for Tats are boring to everyone and I apologize to all for descending into one. G'nite everyone and have a lovely weekend. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 4, 2021 1:08:26 GMT
Medical evidence has proven that fetuses cannot live, unsupported—even with a respirator before at least 20 weeks. Scientific evidence proves that fetuses cannot feel anything/have pain before at least 24 weeks, because the fetuses lack the brain connectivity to do so. So, despite medical and scientific evidence, pro-lifers can pretend/have the OPINION that a fetus is indistinguishable from a baby/child when science and medicine prove otherwise. Do you think every egg that has been fertilized in a woman’s body that doesn’t make it (not viable) to birth is abortion? Do you think that harvesting a legally brain dead persons organs for transplant is murder? It’s a human life, right? So that is why abortion is not murder. (Not to mention that legally, in addition to science and medicine it is not) Babies born before 20-24 weeks have less than a 50 percent chance of life. Today. Who knows what scientific advances lie ahead? And there is solid evidence that a baby DOES feel pain before 24 weeks. But that is NOT the point. I didn't discuss either of these things. I said murder is the taking of innocent live. Whether or not they feel pain--or whether or not they can survive outside the womb, does not negate the fact that they are alive. I am aware that I cannot/will not change your opinion PCA. That's not what I was trying to do here. I was simply trying to respond as a conservative who is opposed to abortion, to the post above asking for someone to do so. I'll say this last thing--the fact that the LAW says abortion is not murder does not in any way make it so. There have been horrible laws throughout the existence of humanity--many of which are looked upon with horror today. Anyway, I was just trying to give an honest answer to an honest question. Thank you for your comments. I hope that the fact that I probably won't engage further won't leave me open to the "post and run" accusation. There is an old saying that a "man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I think that is very true and any arguments I might make won't change any minds at all. I appreciate that you answered the questions and gave your point of view. I do find the idea that people think women are just out randomly aborting babies days before delivery to be ridiculous (and I heard a lot of that when New York changed their law). I think many anti-abortion people need to really educated themselves on the various reasons women might get an abortion, and look at the numbers now vs then for each of those reasons. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 4, 2021 2:00:41 GMT
If it were really about “life”
Then why are all the laws punishing women?
Fertilization is sperm to egg. Where are the laws punishing men for getting women pregnant?
And, since it’s about saving “life”, then any woman immigrant carrying a fertilized egg in Texas cannot be sent away for fear of aborting on a journey “back where they came from”, because then those sending them back to that unknown fate could be charged with aiding a murder then, right?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 4, 2021 2:03:08 GMT
I responded kindly and civilly. I didn’t call you names. I responded with facts. And while I should have been specific in speaking about your posting on controversial subjects, you really of negated yourself by posting that history list—I guess the great majority of peas aren’t really being nasty to you or “calling you all the vile names in the dictionary”, now are they? It’s just when you post on controversial threads, that you’ll be the passive aggressive poster, when you know others will present an opposing viewpoint or come armed with facts. And you knew exactly what I was talking about too. ACK, OK, lady. I hand you the baton and bow out. Tit for Tats are boring to everyone and I apologize to all for descending into one. G'nite everyone and have a lovely weekend. So I’m not allowed to respond to your questions or posts, because you deem it a tit for tat? Got it. Always sanctimonious…🙄🙄🙄 |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 4, 2021 2:08:55 GMT
Imagine being a 12-year-old girl who gets raped by her uncle, gets impregnated by him, and then is forced to carry the baby of her rapist to full term.
Imagine no more: THAT IS TEXAS NOW.
So this appears to be perfectly fine with the “pro-birth” crowd.
After all, it allows the egg…fetus…a “chance to live a life they deserve”, right?
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 4, 2021 2:27:42 GMT
By pro-life do you support other women’s choice to have an abortion? Personally, I don’t think I could have an abortion, but recognize that I am privileged and never had to face that decision. I fully support the choice for other women. Also privileged and never had to face infertility. And I recognize hat it’s another situation you probably can’t know what you would do unless you were in those shoes. If I was unable to have children but wanted them, I think or hope that I would recognize that there are many ways to create families. As sad as I might be about abortions, I would hope that I would not impose my choice, my values, my morals on other women. I thought I made myself clear. I’m pro-life but it’s not up to me or the government to tell someone what they can or can’t do regarding their medical choices. If a woman chooses abortion that’s her decision, my feelings one way or the other play no part in it and I have no intention of trying to impose those feelings on anyone. I'm confused about how you claim to be pro life and object to the government telling someone what to do regarding medical choices in the same sentence. If you're anti -abortion but don't want the government involved, just who exactly is going to stop abortions? Citizens like in Texas? If you support a woman's choice to decide, to me that's pro choice, not pro life. I recognize that both of those terms are loaded, but that's where we are. |
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Post by padresfan619 on Sept 4, 2021 2:37:49 GMT
The worst day of my life was having to have a transvaginal ultrasound in the emergency room when I was pregnant and bleeding for no apparent reason. I was further along than six weeks but not by much. The ultrasound tech, ER doctor, and radiologist couldn’t tell me how far along I was based on the ultrasound images. They couldn’t detect a heartbeat and now based on when my son was born I was further along than six weeks, but at that point he looked like an egg yolk.
My experience with pregnancy, child birth and postpartum only pushed me to be even more pro choice than I already was. If all you care about is the birth of children yet you continue to vote for legislators who vote against extended family leave, food stamps, free preschool, and other social programs that support families you are not pro life, you are pro birth.
I am disgusted by the lack of postpartum care for women in this country. I have good insurance and could barely get myself in to have my body examined after my traumatic birth. After almost nine months of monthly turned weekly visits when I was pregnant I was left to one measly phone call where I was cleared for regular activity! I insisted a physical exam and had to fight my insurance for it. I cannot imagine what women go through when they’re not as “lucky” as me.
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Post by dizzycheermom on Sept 4, 2021 3:25:16 GMT
I’m pro-life but if a woman wants an abortion that’s her choice, not mine. It’s not a decision I have to live with. Roe v Wade was decided almost 50 years ago and the battle has been going on ever since over abortion. It’s become a favorite talking point of every election cycle since. It’s way past time for this war to end and Congress to finally step up and actually make Roe v Wade law. The Democrats have the votes now along with a few moderate Republicans so just get it done. It’s not the job of the Supreme Court to make law so stop relying on them to do what Congress should have done a long time ago. I agree. I posted a poll here awhile back (I think before ACB was nominated to the SC) and if I remember correctly, an overwhelming majority or Democrats AND Republicans reported that they did not want Roe V Wade overturned. This is a quote from Heather Cox Richardson's daily post yesterday: "As I’ve said repeatedly, most Americans agree on most issues, even the hot button ones like abortion. A Gallup poll from June examining the issue of abortion concluded that only 32% of Americans wanted the U.S. Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision overturned, while 58% of Americans opposed overturning it." I know your post was about a poll here, but most Americans agree. |
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 18:29:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2021 3:44:34 GMT
I notice our proud pro-lifer hasn't responded to the issue of all the "little lives" discarded as a result of IVF.
Interesting how only some "little lives" seem to matter to the pro-lifers.
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