SCOTUS Functionally Overturns Row vs Wade

Apparently I must take joy in being called most of the vicious names in the dictionary because that is almost certainly what will happen if I respond to you her aj2hall. But I'll give your questions a go.

I am pro life. How do I justify imposing my moral or religious views on others? Because to ME, abortion is murder. This is NOT simply a woman's right to her own body. There is another life involved here as well. A very innocent life that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation the mother finds herself in. I believe the state has a right to legislate laws against murder. For me, it was bad enough when abortion was mostly confined to the early stages of pregnancy. But when it became legal to destroy a fully formed baby practically up to the moment of birth, I stopped wavering (as I had for a long time) on whether a woman has a right to determine for herself if she is going to get an abortion or not. That settled it once and for all for me. And for many, many others.

You ask how anyone who is opposed to mask and vaccine mandates can refuse to allow women the same choice. For me there is a huge difference: There is a viable, provable act of murder taking place in an abortion. Government has a right (even a duty) to protect the innocent victims.  There is no use tossing  the usual "whatabouts" at me (what about rape, incest, etc.) because I freely admit I do NOT know the answer to those. I just don't. And I don't pretend I do. I do believe that there are answers and humane ones, and I think we would come up with them if we needed to. I think for ME, I would not decry some very limited abortions. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I said I don't have the answers and I'm just being as honest with you as I can be. 

I am old. When I was young, abortion was illegal. And yes, women did take desperate measures. But not nearly as many women as you would be led to believe if you read many of the posts here. First, women were careful then as they KNEW they couldn't legally get an abortion. And it was not uncommon if someone get pregnant, for the family to ship her off to Aunt Ida in Idaho (or wherever) for a bit stating that it was a bit of a visit. The girl would come back and live her life as if she had never been pregnant. The baby would be adopted (there were--and still are--thousands of families longing to adopt in infant). And that brings me to another point. This endless canard that conservatives only care about the baby up til birth but have no interest in helping them or the family after the baby is born is just that--a canard. First---if abortion were illegal, I promise you there would be many, many less such babies being born. Remember, I lived in a time when abortion was illegal. Secondly, you have no idea how many conservative people are strongly involved in programs to help young mothers. And just to respond to another untrue statement which is a constant theme here: MOST OF US ARE IN FAVOR OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS--even FREE BIRTH CONTROL PILLS if the woman cannot afford them. I'd even go and help hand them out!  

Now onto this Texas bill and how this anti-abortion Pea feels about it. Obviously, I am glad that little babies will have a chance to grow up and live the lives they deserve. But I --and let me be very, VERY clear on this---I am astonished and appalled at the provisions in it. There is no way I am in favor of anyone having the right to turn anyone else in over abortion. To me that is simply abhorrent. In every possible way. Do I want abortion to be made illegal? Yes, I do. I think someday in the future we will look back on the millions of little ones lost to abortion and be revolted that we ever, ever thought this was not a crime. But that said, it would be enough for me (and many others like me) to change the law to make abortion illegal and THEN it becomes the woman's decision as to whether she is going to flout that law or not. I am most certainly not in favor of this Nazi-type law Texas has passed where neighbors are spying on neighbors. 

I've done my best to respond to you honestly. And please keep in mind that I didn't have to put myself out there to the commentary that is almost certain to come back at me. But sometimes, I think a conservative should just suck it up and present the other side.  

 

There were a lot of questions and facts posted that went unaddressed/unanswered.

Snowsilver, I do appreciate you taking the time to answer. Even though I don't agree with you at all. Well, I do in some respects, but not most. 

I would like to know how you feel about women being forced to carry a baby with all sorts of horrible conditions? I could list here the ones I have heard of from parents due to my job, and it would be a long, terrible list. Things I had NO idea about until I started working there almost 18 years ago. Like you, I thought having an abortion after 12 or 13 weeks was abhorrent. I wondered not only what kind of monster would abort a baby that late in pregnancy, and I wondered what kind of monster doctor would perform such abortions. Sadly, that was probably because I listened to the media and the way they portrayed (and still do!) "partial birth abortions." That was before I met women who actually have late term abortions because most women find out their baby has something terribly wrong when they are close to 20 weeks pregnant. For some, it is later than that.  Do you really believe women should be forced to carry a baby that is going to die shortly after birth anyway? 

And yes, where is the mention of MEN in this stupid, archaic Texas law? What about the father who drives his 15 year old daughter to the abortion, telling her if she doesn't go in and have one, that she is no longer welcome to live in his house? Yes, I know someone who that happened to. This was after she was date raped. She reported it, nothing happened to the boy because it was "her word against his" and even then, she didn't want to have an abortion, but what choice does a scared 15 year old really have at that point? What about BOYS who essentially force their girlfriends to have an abortion? Why are they not mentioned in this law? 

I wish that people realized what a slippery slope we start sliding down with laws such as this. But I really am curious snowsilver what your views are on some of the scenarios I mentioned. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response Elise, you know I respect you for all the world my dear dear friend. 

I agree with a lot of what you say, but for me I do still stand with a woman's autonomy over her own body and feel strongly that its still her choice and its her sin to bear when making that decision. As much as it goes against my faith this Texas decision was the tipping point for me and as sickened at I am the thought of an almost full term baby being aborted (and I knew this backlash would come because of it) I still support a woman's right to chose. 

Again, I don't know all the answers. But I do believe answers could be found. Again, thanks for the nice response. And with that I am bowing out of the thread. I allowed myself to get a bit snotty with PaperCrafterAddict yesterday and that's not who I want to be and I'm going to have to go apologize to her. I enjoy your posts here, Just T even though I don't always agree with them either.

You do know that NOBODY who has been pregnant for 8+ months just up and decides they don’t want to be pregnant anymore, right? Anyone who has an abortion later in pregnancy is not doing so because they want to or because of convenience. They are doing so because there has been a devastating diagnosis. Often, they have to travel to get the care they need because it’s not available where they live. Later term abortions are extremely expensive ($10k+) and must often be paid up front. How many people have that much money laying around for a complicated, grueling, painful procedure for “convenience”?  

That one sentence of yours perpetuates a myth that healthy, full-term pregnancies are aborted and that is just not true. It does a disservice to those who have to terminate their pregnancies late in the game. Stop it. 

Oh, Just T, I don't expect many here to agree with me. I do thank you for the nice response. Honestly, as I said, I do NOT have all the answers. In your first scenario of the woman being forced to carry a baby with horrible conditions, I think I would have to be in favor of a merciful termination of life since the child could not live a life of joy. But please, don't come back at me with other difficult situations. I said in my original post that I am well aware that there will be exceptions and I don't have all (or even any) of the answers. I do believe though, that answers could be found. I'm just not smart enough to determine them, nor should I. 

About the MEN in the Texas law. Of course I think men should be included. Men should ALWAYS have to be responsible for the care of any child they create. At least half responsible. And in the case of the father forcing his child to have an abortion--yes, that should be addressed as well. 

Again, I don't know all the answers. But I do believe answers could be found. Again, thanks for the nice response. And with that I am bowing out of the thread. I allowed myself to get a bit snotty with PaperCrafterAddict yesterday and that's not who I want to be and I'm going to have to go apologize to her. I enjoy your posts here, Just T even though I don't always agree with them either.

This bothers me in SO many ways.  

We do not know enough about the long term effects of taking hormones, that interfere with our bodily functions, on a daily basis.  12 year old's are barely entering puberty - so much growth happens over the next 5-7 years.  You can barely give a 12 yr old a covid vaccine but we need to give our daughters daily hormones to protect them.

This is a crazy (****** up) world.