Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 27, 2021 12:26:44 GMT
There are no unknowns concerning the safety of these vaccines for the approved populations - it's been administered to 6.9B people, including pregnant and breastfeeding women with minimal adverse events. What does remain unknown are the long-term adverse effects of having Covid. And whether or not vaccinating babies is 'unsafe' (right now, there is no data either way) in no way impacts the safety of vaccinating pregnant or breastfeeding women - medically, the two are unrelated. But, FTR, I don't believe that anyone should be forced to get the vaccine. I also don't believe that those who don't get the vaccine should be granted access to services that put other people at risk. Get the jab, don't get the jab, entirely your choice. Just be prepared to live with everything that goes along with that choice. There are no unknowns concerning the safety of these vaccines for the approved populations - it's been administered to 6.9B people, including pregnant and breastfeeding women with minimal adverse events. How many years did it take to discover that thalidomide produced birth defects? So no, people that don't want to risk subjecting their baby to something like that should NOT be deemed unfit for society. Thalidomide was a medication, not a vaccine. The vehicle for this vaccine has been in the works for decades. The only new ingredient is the virus. |
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Post by hookturnian on Oct 27, 2021 12:30:24 GMT
No, I acknowledged it by responding to you. Again, it has no bearing on my point - The sample sizes are enormous. There are no unknowns when it comes to these vaccines and their approved populations. No, acknowledging it would be admitting that saying 6.9B people was incorrect. |
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 27, 2021 12:41:03 GMT
No, I acknowledged it by responding to you. Again, it has no bearing on my point - The sample sizes are enormous. There are no unknowns when it comes to these vaccines and their approved populations. No, acknowledging it would be admitting that saying 6.9B people was incorrect. I misspoke. If I weren’t acknowledging it, I would have denied it. Instead, I’m saying that it doesn’t have any bearing on my point. But my point doesn’t seem to matter as much as the fact that I misspoke. Consider this your much needed acknowledgment. K? |
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 27, 2021 12:57:05 GMT
The big, still as of yet, unanswered question is: if you can get vaccinated and still get or pass on covid, why are only the unvaccinated being blamed for getting or passing covid? That is what makes no sense to millions of people. It has been well documented that at least 90% of covid patients in the hospital are unvaccinated. And that the majority of those testing positive are unvaccinated. Yes vaccinated people can spread it but these numbers show that it is more widespread in unvaccinated people. Unvaccinated people have the right to not be vaccinated. But there may be consequences as far as keeping a job or going to certain stores/events/etc. This. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand. No, the vaccine is not 100% protective. But the odds of a vaccinated person dying from Covid are significantly lower. Surely one can understand why vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? Especially since many of those vaccinated people are around young children, older people, or people with comorbidities-all of whom have higher risks for Covid. |
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Post by sunshine on Oct 27, 2021 13:32:19 GMT
vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? I wonder what the chances are of a vaccinated person, hacking into their hand and then immediately shaking hands with others, and vaccinated people attending a crowded event, unmasked and cheek to cheek with many others unmasked, contribute to the spread? |
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Post by dizzycheermom on Oct 27, 2021 16:07:47 GMT
vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? I wonder what the chances are of a vaccinated person, hacking into their hand and then immediately shaking hands with others, and vaccinated people attending a crowded event, unmasked and cheek to cheek with many others unmasked, contribute to the spread? The vaccinated people that I know still aren't shaking hands and are still masking up, esp in that kind of scenario! So I would say a small chance. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 27, 2021 16:19:03 GMT
vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? I wonder what the chances are of a vaccinated person, hacking into their hand and then immediately shaking hands with others, and vaccinated people attending a crowded event, unmasked and cheek to cheek with many others unmasked, contribute to the spread? Well, it could happen, I guess. The vaccinated people that I know are not shaking hands-at all. And they are avoiding crowded venues. But hey, sure; it could happen. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 27, 2021 17:44:46 GMT
Agree. And I'll point out to the PP that the Biden admin hasn't imposed universal vaccine mandates and won't. They have made vaccination a condition of certain employment opportunities. You know, like drug tests and other barriers to job entry imposed in the name of safety. Those who object are welcome to seek employment elsewhere. Problem with the anti-vaxxers is that they want to have their cake and eat it, too - they want to remain unvaccinated and force others to be endangered by their choices. But vaccination status is not an immutable characteristic. It's a choice. As such, the unvaccinated are not a protected class, and endangering others in public places and employment sites is not a right. The big, still as of yet, unanswered question is: if you can get vaccinated and still get or pass on covid, why are only the unvaccinated being blamed for getting or passing covid? That is what makes no sense to millions of people. Perhaps those millions of people should review the studies that show that vaccinated people are substantially less likely to be infected in the first place, and tend to have a lower viral load/and or be infectious for a shorter period of time than unvaccinated people. A good compilation of what we know so far, with context, and with links to reputable medical studies: projects.fivethirtyeight.com/covid-19-updates/To continue the analogy I made above: workplace drug testing does not guarantee that employees will not have an accident that causes injury. But I think we can agree that people who are not high at work are substantially less likely to cause injury to themselves or others while operating heavy machinery or driving. Why doesn't infection count the same as vaccination to allow people to participate in activities? People who have been infected but not vaccinated do not carry the same level of immunity against the virus as vaccinated people, and can be more easily re-infected (and infect others). www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211024/unvaccinated-people-likely-to-catch-covid-repeatedly |
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Post by Merge on Oct 27, 2021 17:48:22 GMT
vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? I wonder what the chances are of a vaccinated person, hacking into their hand and then immediately shaking hands with others, and vaccinated people attending a crowded event, unmasked and cheek to cheek with many others unmasked, contribute to the spread? I think the fact that the vast majority of cases now are occurring among the unvaccinated is your answer. We're having packed baseball games in a majority-vaccinated city and our cases continue to fall. |
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Post by lucyg on Oct 27, 2021 18:48:37 GMT
The big, still as of yet, unanswered question is: if you can get vaccinated and still get or pass on covid, why are only the unvaccinated being blamed for getting or passing covid? That is what makes no sense to millions of people. Perhaps those millions of people should review the studies that show that vaccinated people are substantially less likely to be infected in the first place, and tend to have a lower viral load/and or be infectious for a shorter period of time than unvaccinated people. A good compilation of what we know so far, with context, and with links to reputable medical studies: projects.fivethirtyeight.com/covid-19-updates/To continue the analogy I made above: workplace drug testing does not guarantee that employees will not have an accident that causes injury. But I think we can agree that people who are not high at work are substantially less likely to cause injury to themselves or others while operating heavy machinery or driving. Why doesn't infection count the same as vaccination to allow people to participate in activities? People who have been infected but not vaccinated do not carry the same level of immunity against the virus as vaccinated people, and can be more easily re-infected (and infect others). www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211024/unvaccinated-people-likely-to-catch-covid-repeatedlyI (and many others) have explained all this to pixiechick about eleventy-eight billion times, and she just keeps repeating the same questions, slightly reworded, over and over again. You are a better person than I am. I gave up a few pages ago. See also: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning |
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Post by MichyM on Oct 27, 2021 18:58:33 GMT
I've never said FFS before, but FFS, I've never seen such persisitant and seemingly deliberate obtusiveness (is that a word) as I have from a couple of Pea posters on this thread.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 27, 2021 19:00:34 GMT
I've never said FFS before, but FFS, I've never seen such persisitant and seemingly deliberate obtusiveness (is that a word) as I have from a couple of Pea posters on this thread. Purposefully obtuse is the way I hear it worded most often. This is a textbook example. |
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Oct 27, 2021 19:14:33 GMT
Sincere kudos to those discussing in good faith here, but it seems we’ve again passed the Diminishing Returns Tipping Point of this week’s program. Quoting myself because…well…because. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 27, 2021 19:28:35 GMT
Perhaps those millions of people should review the studies that show that vaccinated people are substantially less likely to be infected in the first place, and tend to have a lower viral load/and or be infectious for a shorter period of time than unvaccinated people. A good compilation of what we know so far, with context, and with links to reputable medical studies: projects.fivethirtyeight.com/covid-19-updates/To continue the analogy I made above: workplace drug testing does not guarantee that employees will not have an accident that causes injury. But I think we can agree that people who are not high at work are substantially less likely to cause injury to themselves or others while operating heavy machinery or driving. Why doesn't infection count the same as vaccination to allow people to participate in activities? People who have been infected but not vaccinated do not carry the same level of immunity against the virus as vaccinated people, and can be more easily re-infected (and infect others). www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211024/unvaccinated-people-likely-to-catch-covid-repeatedlyI (and many others) have explained all this to pixiechick about eleventy-eight billion times, and she just keeps repeating the same questions, slightly reworded, over and over again. You are a better person than I am. I gave up a few pages ago. See also: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SealioningI'm deep into the "repeat myself eleven billion times" hell known as October here at school, so it just comes naturally, I guess. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 27, 2021 20:16:05 GMT
I (and many others) have explained all this to pixiechick about eleventy-eight billion times, and she just keeps repeating the same questions, slightly reworded, over and over again. You are a better person than I am. I gave up a few pages ago. See also: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SealioningI'm deep into the "repeat myself eleven billion times" hell known as October here at school, so it just comes naturally, I guess. Ha! I agree. If a student doesn’t understand a concept, rephrase and repeat. You are onto something. |
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Post by pixiechick on Oct 28, 2021 12:18:55 GMT
Being forced to give birth when you have decided it's not what's best for you and/or the baby. Being forced to take a shot of antibodies that you already have in your body naturally, when you have decided it's not what's best for you or your baby. Yep. Valid analogy. is the person who would be harmed by you not giving birth or not getting a shot living inside one of your organs in both cases?
No?
Then not a valid analogy.
Definition of analogy 1a: a comparison of two otherwise unlike things based on resemblance of a particular aspect b: resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY Yep, my analogy fits that definition. link |
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Post by pixiechick on Oct 28, 2021 12:19:48 GMT
And you don't give a damn if you kill me or someone else with your Covid? Are you not vaccinated? |
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Post by pixiechick on Oct 28, 2021 12:21:25 GMT
How many years did it take to discover that thalidomide produced birth defects? So no, people that don't want to risk subjecting their baby to something like that should NOT be deemed unfit for society. Thalidomide was a medication, not a vaccine. It was given as an example of medical treatment gone wrong. An example of using it for years thinking there was no issue, until they realized it actually had been causing major issues. Point being... it happens and people might not want to take that chance with their baby. They have that right to make that decision for herself and her baby, without being essentially removed from society. As do the people that have had Covid, are young, healthy and the risk for them is low. Or any valid reason there is. The vehicle for this vaccine has been in the works for decades. The only new ingredient is the virus. None of that guarantees there won't be major consequences to babies. There probably won't be. And yet, at this point that isn't a given. |
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Post by pixiechick on Oct 28, 2021 12:24:58 GMT
It has been well documented that at least 90% of covid patients in the hospital are unvaccinated. And that the majority of those testing positive are unvaccinated. Yes vaccinated people can spread it but these numbers show that it is more widespread in unvaccinated people. Unvaccinated people have the right to not be vaccinated. But there may be consequences as far as keeping a job or going to certain stores/events/etc. This. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand. No, the vaccine is not 100% protective. But the odds of a vaccinated person dying from Covid are significantly lower. Surely one can understand why vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? Especially since many of those vaccinated people are around young children, older people, or people with comorbidities-all of whom have higher risks for Covid. Let's say we reach 100% vaccinated. People will still be getting it and will still be spreading it. You are vaccinated, you will be okay. And that will still be the case even if not another single person gets vaccinated. Either way, you are protected as much as the vaccine will protect you. This: You aren't any more protected by the vaccine when you come in contact with someone who is vaccinated but has covid, than you are coming in contact with someone who has covid but is not vaccinated. You have the same protection either way. |
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Post by pixiechick on Oct 28, 2021 12:25:28 GMT
I wonder what the chances are of a vaccinated person, hacking into their hand and then immediately shaking hands with others, and vaccinated people attending a crowded event, unmasked and cheek to cheek with many others unmasked, contribute to the spread? Well, it could happen, I guess. The vaccinated people that I know are not shaking hands-at all. And they are avoiding crowded venues. But hey, sure; it could happen. Saw the president do exactly that. Then saw him with a crowd of strangers none of them masked, including him. Watched him lean in cheek to cheek with people talking to them. Watched him unintentionally spit on a woman while talking to her. Twice. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 28, 2021 12:29:29 GMT
Well, it could happen, I guess. The vaccinated people that I know are not shaking hands-at all. And they are avoiding crowded venues. But hey, sure; it could happen. Saw the president do exactly that. Then saw him with a crowd of strangers none of them masked, including him. Watched him lean in cheek to cheek with people talking to them. Watched him unintentionally spit on a woman while talking to her. Twice. I’m sure that you did. There are likely other vaccinated people who are still shaking hands. I just don’t’ know any of them. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 28, 2021 12:35:30 GMT
This. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand. No, the vaccine is not 100% protective. But the odds of a vaccinated person dying from Covid are significantly lower. Surely one can understand why vaccinated people, most of whom have been extremely careful since March of 2020, would not want to be around unvaccinated people? Especially since many of those vaccinated people are around young children, older people, or people with comorbidities-all of whom have higher risks for Covid. Let's say we reach 100% vaccinated. People will still be getting it and will still be spreading it. You are vaccinated, you will be okay. And that will still be the case even if not another single person gets vaccinated. Either way, you are protected as much as the vaccine will protect you. This: You aren't any more protected by the vaccine when you come in contact with someone who is vaccinated but has covid, than you are coming in contact with someone who has covid but is not vaccinated. You have the same protection either way. Sigh. Several points: 1) Unvaccinated people are likely to be clogging up ICUs and hampering others who need treatment and surgeries 2) As has been pointed out more than once, some people live with people who are immunocompromised, have comorbidities, or are infants. They do not want their loved ones to get Covid. 3) dragging this disease out increases the probability of mutations That’s it; I’m done. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 28, 2021 12:44:24 GMT
I'm deep into the "repeat myself eleven billion times" hell known as October here at school, so it just comes naturally, I guess. Ha! I agree. If a student doesn’t understand a concept, rephrase and repeat. You are onto something. I have to say that I've never had a student who simply refused to believe facts. |
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 28, 2021 12:47:08 GMT
Thalidomide was a medication, not a vaccine. It was given as an example of medical treatment gone wrong. An example of using it for years thinking there was no issue, until they realized it actually had been causing major issues. Point being... it happens and people might not want to take that chance with their baby. They have that right to make that decision for herself and her baby, without being essentially removed from society. As do the people that have had Covid, are young, healthy and the risk for them is low. Or any valid reason there is. The vehicle for this vaccine has been in the works for decades. The only new ingredient is the virus. None of that guarantees there won't be major consequences to babies. There probably won't be. And yet, at this point that isn't a given. First, they aren't injecting babies. Second, in terms of injecting pregnant women, from the outset, we knew the mRNA vaccines would be safer than traditional vaccines because of the way that they work, but now we have more than sufficient real-world data proving their safety. The side-effect to the fetus is that they may enjoy some level of protection as the immunity generated by the vaccine (not the vaccine itself) does cross the placenta. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 5:23:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 12:52:06 GMT
is the person who would be harmed by you not giving birth or not getting a shot living inside one of your organs in both cases?
No?
Then not a valid analogy.
Definition of analogy 1a: a comparison of two otherwise unlike things based on resemblance of a particular aspect b: resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY Yep, my analogy fits that definition. linkWhen the people you can kill by ignoring science on vaccine efficacy are living INSIDE OF YOU, your analogy will have valid "resemblance".
Otherwise you're just pulling similarities that are useless to the discussion. There are THOUSANDS of similarities that have no bearing on the discussion: "Well, in both situations they're humans. They both are on earth. They both aren't under water. They both aren't in Uzbekistan, etc."
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Post by aj2hall on Oct 28, 2021 21:09:06 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 30, 2021 13:52:04 GMT
10/30/21 Vaccines provides better protection than natural/having had Covid!! Vaccine offers more protection against COVID-19 than natural immunity, CDC study findsBY ALEXANDER TIN UPDATED ON: OCTOBER 29, 2021 / 7:05 PM / CBS NEWS Unvaccinated people who had survived a previous COVID-19 infection were more than five times more likely to be reinfected with the virus compared to those who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, according to a new study published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The finding comes from data published Friday in the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, examining records of adults hospitalized with COVID-19 symptoms in the agency's "VISION Network" of hospitals spanning nine states. The study's authors said their findings showed "vaccine-induced immunity was more protective than infection-induced immunity" among patients who had their first bout of the disease or were vaccinated three to six months earlier. "We now have additional evidence that reaffirms the importance of COVID-19 vaccines, even if you have had prior infection. This study adds more to the body of knowledge demonstrating the protection of vaccines against severe disease from COVID-19," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a statement. *** The CDC study "focused on the early protection from infection-induced and vaccine-induced immunity, though it is possible that estimates could be affected by time. Understanding infection-induced and vaccine-induced immunity over time is important, particularly for future studies to consider," the authors said. Beyond encouraging the unvaccinated to get their shots for greater protection, studies examining natural immunity have also been a focus as U.S. health authorities mull potential decisions to expand booster shot recommendations to more adults. www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine-protection-covid-19-natural-immunity-cdc-study/pixiechick article above and tweets below!! |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 30, 2021 15:11:20 GMT
Facts DO matter!!
Epidemiologist Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding weighs in with results from the study showing for the elderly "natural immunity" is even worse than for younger patients.
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Post by aj2hall on Oct 30, 2021 16:32:48 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 30, 2021 17:36:09 GMT
Their claim is that they object to the Mandate!!
Now we know why the police unions do not support the Capitol and DC Metropolitan police officers!
Are WE safe?
Getting ready to post and article about the (TX) San Marcos police officials and 911 dispatchers who fielded multiple requests for assistance with Trump train chasing the Biden campaign bus... They refused to help them!! Well documented, verbal, written, radio trans missions and from other departments, who did help!!!
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