sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456 
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 10, 2022 15:48:30 GMT
They are here in the states. Ah yes, I thought I was posting on the Ottawa Trucker protest thread. Sorry. You are. She is just being deliberately obtuse. |
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 10, 2022 15:48:31 GMT
It was to help prevent the spread of Covid, as you know. People wearing masks have also been harassed, including in front of a school. Everyone is tired of it, and everyone is hoping that life will soon go back to normal.More reason to just stop all of the madness/government overreach so we can all get back to living. After reading your last couple of posts you are either extremely dense or being a pain in the ass making outlandish comments just to rile people up. Which is it? |
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Feb 10, 2022 15:48:38 GMT
OMFG! I was to PREVENT AS MUCH DEATH AS POSSIBLE DURING A PANDEMIC. With millions dead, I don't think it prevented muchSeriously??? I've been sitting on my hands this whole thread. Now this comment makes me think you're here just to cause shit. This thought just makes you look out of touch with reality or maybe live in a cave. |
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 3:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 15:49:32 GMT
OMFG! I was to PREVENT AS MUCH DEATH AS POSSIBLE DURING A PANDEMIC. With millions dead, I don't think it prevented much some initial predictions for USA death were 1.5-2m deaths. It's currently 911k so they halved it? Sounds like a fair bit of prevention to me. But of course I'm sure you don't agree with those figures or anything that indicates something you disagree with might have worked. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 10, 2022 15:49:33 GMT
It was to help prevent the spread of Covid, as you know. People wearing masks have also been harassed, including in front of a school. Everyone is tired of it, and everyone is hoping that life will soon go back to normal.More reason to just stop all of the madness/government overreach so we can all get back to living. Barring a new variant, it is looking like that might well happen. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 10, 2022 15:49:45 GMT
There is another option. Instead of supporting the truckers who are causing major disruptions and anything but peaceful, you could say I oppose vaccine mandates and support the opposition to them but condemn the violence and disruptions. Just like many on the left said we support protests for racial justice but condemn the violence. Since you insist on bringing up the black lives matter protests, here is some factual information on them. They were mostly peaceful despite whatever you may have seen on Fox or other right wing media. The Fox entertainers lost any remaining journalistic integrity and ethics when they essentially became advisors to the White House and contacted the chief of staff directly. Fox talk shows essentially became an extension of the White House, a form of state run media. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/21/line-between-trump-fox-news-isnt-blurry-it-barely-exists/thehill.com/hilltv/rising/411436-fox-news-contributor-there-is-no-separation-between-fox-news-and-the-trumpwww.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/16/this-summers-black-lives-matter-protesters-were-overwhelming-peaceful-our-research-finds/Here is what we have found based on the 7,305 events we’ve collected. The overall levels of violence and property destruction were low, and most of the violence that did take place was, in fact, directed against the BLM protesters.
First, police made arrests in 5 percent of the protest events, with over 8,500 reported arrests (or possibly more). Police used tear gas or related chemical substances in 2.5 percent of these events.Protesters or bystanders were reported injured in 1.6 percent of the protests. In total, at least three Black Lives Matter protesters and one other person were killed while protesting in Omaha, Austin and Kenosha, Wis. One anti-fascist protester killed a far-right group member during a confrontation in Portland, Ore.; law enforcement killed the alleged assailant several days later.Police were reported injured in 1 percent of the protests. A law enforcement officer killed in California was allegedly shot by supporters of the far-right “boogaloo” movement, not anti-racism protesters. The killings in the line of duty of other law enforcement officers during this period were not related to the protests.
Only 3.7 percent of the protests involved property damage or vandalism. Some portion of these involved neither police nor protesters, but people engaging in vandalism or looting alongside the protests.
In short, our data suggest that 96.3 percent of events involved no property damage or police injuries, and in 97.7 percent of events, no injuries were reported among participants, bystanders or police.
These figures should correct the narrative that the protests were overtaken by rioting and vandalism or violence. Such claims are false. Incidents in which there was protester violence or property destruction should be regarded as exceptional — and not representative of the uprising as a whole.
In many instances, police reportedly began or escalated the violence, but some observers nevertheless blame the protesters. The claim that the protests are violent — even when the police started the violence — can help local, state and federal forces justify intentionally beating, gassing or kettling the people marching, or reinforces politicians’ calls for “law and order.”
I would have condemned any violence...if there was any in the truckers protest. Disruptions are a result of any protest, that's the whole point. AND I've been against the mandates for a very long time. Nobody should lose their jobs because of their freedom of choice. And children should not be masked and double masked in schools.....I am particularly against that one. Sounds like your stance on running the protesters over has changed. Hmmm….I wonder why? |
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Feb 10, 2022 15:49:47 GMT
More reason to just stop all of the madness/government overreach so we can all get back to living. After reading your last couple of posts you are either extremely dense or being a pain in the ass making outlandish comments just to rile people up. Which is it? Exactly what I'm thinking. |
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 10, 2022 15:51:33 GMT
More reason to just stop all of the madness/government overreach so we can all get back to living. After reading your last couple of posts you are either extremely dense or being a pain in the ass making outlandish comments just to rile people up. Which is it? Both. I’d make the fence post comparison, but a fence post is actually useful, despite its being dense. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 10, 2022 15:51:49 GMT
Ah yes, I thought I was posting on the Ottawa Trucker protest thread. Sorry. You are. She is just being deliberately obtuse. She posted on my thread....sorry you didn't see that... |
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 3:11:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 15:56:00 GMT
OMFG! I was to PREVENT AS MUCH DEATH AS POSSIBLE DURING A PANDEMIC. With millions dead, I don't think it prevented much I don't think you're thinking correctly. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 15:56:51 GMT
Especially when the protest has nothing to do with your (general you) job or yourself. The workers at the GM plant are being laid off because the components they need for the production lines are not being allowed through so they have to halt production. cindosha do you think it's fair and reasonable for these workers to lose their jobs when the protest has nothing whatsoever to do with them but they are prevented from working by others? Do you think the impact of the protest is fair when somewhere in the region of $320 million of goods cross that bridge daily worth $1.7 BILLION of trade daily. Ask yourself what impact that will have on your ( US) economy if it is allowed to continue? And for the record I think Canada has every right to mandate vaccinations for anyone crossing their border into their country. For the ones that think it's very unfair, I hope non of you are thinking of taking an out of country vacation or a cruise in the coming months because you will find that the same conditions apply - no vaccine = no cruise/ no vacation, to very many countries. But the protest has now morphed into something totally different to why it started. Others, with a very different agenda have taken over and it has got out of hand not only in US/Canada but also in parts of Europe, This no longer about vaccine mandates it's anarchy. I don't agree with you there. It has always been about freedom from mandates. Mandates that fire workers from their jobs if they are not vaccinated and require vax cards to get into a lot of stores, venues and restaurants. No it wasn't. It started off originally by the requirement that truckers needed to be vaccinated to enter Canada. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 10, 2022 15:58:35 GMT
I was not in patient care at all, but working in a critical care facility, and I was required to get my flu shot every year. This was 15 years ago. I worked in doctor offices/hospital clinics for 20 years, never had a flu shot or any vaccine for any of them. Again, just because that was your experience, it doesn't mean that it is true across the health care field. There are states, doctors offices, hospitals etc that do require flu or other vaccines. |
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Post by claudia123 on Feb 10, 2022 15:59:47 GMT
Is pregnancy a transmissible disease capable of wiping out a workforce (men and women) through death or illness? Your slippery slope is a little too slippery. Libertarian slippery slopes often are. This is exactly what I meant about people being naive to the possible long term consequences of allowing bussiness to decide what medical treatments their employees have to have to remain employed. In this thread the argument has been that companies have the right to set medical requirements and if people don't like that they can find another job. It would certainly be in the best interests of many companies to require birth control even though it would be detrimental to workers. People have a lot more faith in big businesses than I do if they don't think they will take advantage of any opportunity to maximise their own profits at the expense of worker welfare. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 10, 2022 16:01:08 GMT
In Canada, the unvaxxed are not being denied access to stores or healthcare at all. If the mandates are lifted in a month, it will not be ignored. Our local hospital is still beyond capacity. My cousin with lung cancer couldn't be admitted for surgery in our home town. They requested another centre and they didn't have the capacity to take him either due to covid. They were able to take him in Niagara. So there's that. Did you see the "press conference in Ottawa yesterday with the truckers demanding to take over the gov't in a coalition with the opposition parties? 🤣 The mayor of Ottawa said that it was like a Monty Python skit. They are here in the states. Here in the states the shirtless and shoeless are denied entry to stores. The unvaxxed are not being denied access to health care. In fact, they are clogging up hospitals. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 10, 2022 16:01:19 GMT
I worked in doctor offices/hospital clinics for 20 years, never had a flu shot or any vaccine for any of them. Again, just because that was your experience, it doesn't mean that it is true across the health care field. There are states, doctors offices, hospitals etc that do require flu or other vaccines. I understand that. That is the difference with these mandates. There is no "some do and some don't". These mandates say everyone has to do what I say or you are out of a job, not able to eat in a restaurant or being dragged out of a school board meeting because you don't have a mask on. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 10, 2022 16:06:56 GMT
They are here in the states. Here in the states the shirtless and shoeless are denied entry to stores. The unvaxxed are not being denied access to health care. In fact, they are clogging up hospitals.I think I read about someone being taken off of a transplant list because they weren't vaxed. And it's not just the unvaxed clogging up hospitals. It's vaxed and unvaxed. Yep, here it is: 2peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/128116/man-denied-heart-transplant |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 10, 2022 16:08:00 GMT
I worked in doctor offices/hospital clinics for 20 years, never had a flu shot or any vaccine for any of them. Again, just because that was your experience, it doesn't mean that it is true across the health care field. There are states, doctors offices, hospitals etc that do require flu or other vaccines. I didn't say it was... |
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sassyangel
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Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 10, 2022 16:11:05 GMT
I worked in doctor offices/hospital clinics for 20 years, never had a flu shot or any vaccine for any of them. Again, just because that was your experience, it doesn't mean that it is true across the health care field. There are states, doctors offices, hospitals etc that do require flu or other vaccines. The facility I worked for, had facilities across the country. They *all* required it. |
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 10, 2022 16:12:54 GMT
They are here in the states. Here in the states the shirtless and shoeless are denied entry to stores. The unvaxxed are not being denied access to health care. In fact, they are clogging up hospitals. They are the ones actually denying healthcare to others. If anyone is being denied care from all this. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 10, 2022 16:16:29 GMT
Again, just because that was your experience, it doesn't mean that it is true across the health care field. There are states, doctors offices, hospitals etc that do require flu or other vaccines. I understand that. That is the difference with these mandates. There is no "some do and some don't". These mandates say everyone has to do what I say or you are out of a job, not able to eat in a restaurant or being dragged out of a school board meeting because you don't have a mask on. As we've said before, you are not entitled to a specific job and you are not entitled to eat in a restaurant. You have to follow rules for private businesses like wearing shoes and shirts for health and safety reasons. And no one is entitled to attend school board meetings and break the rules or otherwise be disruptive. Many school districts allow people to participate remotely. |
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 10, 2022 16:19:10 GMT
Libertarian slippery slopes often are. This is exactly what I meant about people being naive to the possible long term consequences of allowing bussiness to decide what medical treatments their employees have to have to remain employed. In this thread the argument has been that companies have the right to set medical requirements and if people don't like that they can find another job. It would certainly be in the best interests of many companies to require birth control even though it would be detrimental to workers. People have a lot more faith in big businesses than I do if they don't think they will take advantage of any opportunity to maximise their own profits at the expense of worker welfare. Naive? You’re the one creating slippery slopes that don’t even exist, because you can’t seem to wrap your head around the fact that vaccine mandates have long been a thing here, and in other countries, for that matter. You keep adding these strawmen arguments, that have nothing yo do with the topic at hand. Just like that freaking coffee thread. 🤷🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 16:19:12 GMT
would certainly be in the best interests of many companies to require birth control When/if that eventuality comes up for any jobs except maybe the space station astronauts, we can have a discussion about it. Until then, the mandates being discussed are drug tests, uniforms, VACCINES, etc. DURING A PANDEMIC A VACCINE IS A REASONABLE MANDATE IN CERTAIN JOBS!!!! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 16:19:55 GMT
Especially when the protest has nothing to do with your (general you) job or yourself. The workers at the GM plant are being laid off because the components they need for the production lines are not being allowed through so they have to halt production. cindosha do you think it's fair and reasonable for these workers to lose their jobs when the protest has nothing whatsoever to do with them but they are prevented from working by others? Do you think the impact of the protest is fair when somewhere in the region of $320 million of goods cross that bridge daily worth $1.7 BILLION of trade daily. Ask yourself what impact that will have on your ( US) economy if it is allowed to continue? And for the record I think Canada has every right to mandate vaccinations for anyone crossing their border into their country. For the ones that think it's very unfair, I hope non of you are thinking of taking an out of country vacation or a cruise in the coming months because you will find that the same conditions apply - no vaccine = no cruise/ no vacation, to very many countries. But the protest has now morphed into something totally different to why it started. Others, with a very different agenda have taken over and it has got out of hand not only in US/Canada but also in parts of Europe, This no longer about vaccine mandates it's anarchy.
I don't think ANYONE should lose their jobs because of a vax/mask mandate, no matter how it trickles down. That is the whole point of this protest. Didn't your country lift all of the mandates recently?  Or are they not in effect yet? Not meaning to be snarky, just curious. But the GM workers are not losing their jobs or being denied the right to work because of any mandate though are they? They are being denied the right to work by the actions of others. Yes, they have lifted the Mandate for health care workers now which only leaves very few unvaccinated employees and they are being generally offered positions in non medical front line jobs. The mandate is still in place for healthcare workers in residential homes for seniors as far as I know. Some chose to leave of their own free will rather than be jabbed and that is their choice. They did have a couple of months to consider their position so it wasn't as if it was brought in overnight. There have been no reports of mass sacking from that particular field of employment ( Senior care homes). The mandate was only in place for front line medical healthcare workers. It has never been in place for anyone else. With 80% of the population over the age of 12 having been doubles jabbed and 64% to date having had their booster the need for all employers to mandate the requirement wasn't that urgent but to protect the most vulnerable in society it was felt that the right thing to do was to mandate front line healthcare worker and in particular senior care establishments. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 10, 2022 16:19:58 GMT
I am not being snarky here, but could it be that this is bothering you because you have not had to show proof of vaccines for your job before this? Many of us are used to having medical requirements, so this is just one more. It's not bothering me because I don't work in the medical field anymore. I've been out for several years. I am bothered by the fact that this trickled down into folks being harassed for not wearing masks in public places and not being able to go to a store or movie without a mask. And I will never be able to get over parents getting kicked off of airplanes because their 2-3 year old child would not keep a mask on. There is SO MUCH wrong with that. But guess what.....now that the mandates will all be getting dropped, what was it all for in the first place? I don't know where you heard that. I doubt that is true. More likely the parents were disruptive. Don't like the rules? Don't get on the plane. Just like jobs and private businesses, no one is entitled to flying. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 16:20:58 GMT
I think I read about someone being taken off of a transplant list because they weren't vaxed. You can be taken off the transplant list for not doing any of DOZENS of requirements. You're just being obnoxious. If there were more than enough organs to go around to all those in need, it wouldn't be an issue of forcing people to comply w/transplant MANDATES. But until we are in that situation, you give the organs to those w/the BEST CHANCE OF USING THEM LONG TERM. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 10, 2022 16:24:09 GMT
Too bad. There are all kinds of requirements with teaching today that didn’t exist when I entered the profession. I can comply with them or find a different job. It’s that simple. I really don’t know why some people think they’re more special than the rest of us. Historically, conservatives have been pro-business and in favor of letting businesses set requirements even if they hurt the worker. What has changed now? Where do you draw the line on what kind of medical treatments businesses are allowed to require? Would you be okay if bussinesses start requiring for example birth control as a condition of employment? After all people could just get another job if they don't like it according to the current rhetoric. You draw the line at public health and safety. The unvaccinated are health threat to others around them since they are more likely to get and spread covid. Pregnancy doesn't affect anyone else. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 10, 2022 16:26:41 GMT
would certainly be in the best interests of many companies to require birth control When/if that eventuality comes up for any jobs except maybe the space station astronauts, we can have a discussion about it. Until then, the mandates being discussed are drug tests, uniforms, VACCINES, etc. DURING A PANDEMIC A VACCINE IS A REASONABLE MANDATE IN CERTAIN JOBS!!!!Here is where we agree. "In certain jobs". Not EVERY job. Unfortunately, it was across the board, which is I feel is overreach. I have no objection to hospitals and medical staff being asked to get a vaccine. However, I still feel it should be a choice. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 10, 2022 16:30:37 GMT
cindosha do you think it's fair and reasonable for these workers to lose their jobs when the protest has nothing whatsoever to do with them but they are prevented from working by others?
I don't think ANYONE should lose their jobs because of a vax/mask mandate, no matter how it trickles down. That is the whole point of this protest. Didn't your country lift all of the mandates recently? Or are they not in effect yet? Not meaning to be snarky, just curious. But the GM workers are not losing their jobs or being denied the right to work because of any mandate though are they? They are being denied the right to work by the actions of others. Yes, they have lifted the Mandate for health care workers now which only leaves very few unvaccinated employees and they are being generally offered positions in non medical front line jobs. The mandate is still in place for healthcare workers in residential homes for seniors as far as I know. Some chose to leave of their own free will rather than be jabbed and that is their choice. They did have a couple of months to consider their position so it wasn't as if it was brought in overnight. There have been no reports of mass sacking from that particular field of employment ( Senior care homes). The mandate was only in place for front line medical healthcare workers. It has never been in place for anyone else. With 80% of the population over the age of 12 having been doubles jabbed and 64% to date having had their booster the need for all employers to mandate the requirement wasn't that urgent but to protect the most vulnerable in society it was felt that the right thing to do was to mandate front line healthcare worker and in particular senior care establishments.
Yes they are, its a trickle down effect. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 16:36:06 GMT
Libertarian slippery slopes often are. This is exactly what I meant about people being naive to the possible long term consequences of allowing bussiness to decide what medical treatments their employees have to have to remain employed. In this thread the argument has been that companies have the right to set medical requirements and if people don't like that they can find another job. It would certainly be in the best interests of many companies to require birth control even though it would be detrimental to workers. People have a lot more faith in big businesses than I do if they don't think they will take advantage of any opportunity to maximise their own profits at the expense of worker welfare. Stats say birth rates in the USA have been declining for decades. Companies need people - workers, customers etc so birth control might not be viewed like you seem to think it is? Some countries are actually putting policies in place to encourage increased birth rates. I'd like to know on what basis you've made that statement. Conjecture or reality? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 16:36:27 GMT
But the GM workers are not losing their jobs or being denied the right to work because of any mandate though are they? They are being denied the right to work by the actions of others. Yes, they have lifted the Mandate for health care workers now which only leaves very few unvaccinated employees and they are being generally offered positions in non medical front line jobs. The mandate is still in place for healthcare workers in residential homes for seniors as far as I know. Some chose to leave of their own free will rather than be jabbed and that is their choice. They did have a couple of months to consider their position so it wasn't as if it was brought in overnight. There have been no reports of mass sacking from that particular field of employment ( Senior care homes). The mandate was only in place for front line medical healthcare workers. It has never been in place for anyone else. With 80% of the population over the age of 12 having been doubles jabbed and 64% to date having had their booster the need for all employers to mandate the requirement wasn't that urgent but to protect the most vulnerable in society it was felt that the right thing to do was to mandate front line healthcare worker and in particular senior care establishments.
Yes they are, its a trickle down effect.  |
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Or are they not in effect yet? Not meaning to be snarky, just curious. 
