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Post by amp on Feb 22, 2022 18:34:58 GMT
We now know that the overwhelming number of deaths, over 75%, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities, so really these are people who were sick to begin with. I rarely comment on these threads, but this comment right here makes me so mad I just can't let it go. My youngest daughter has an autoimmune disease. We kept her home until the vaccine was available, then she started school this fall fully vaccinated. When we had an Omincron surge after Christmas, she studied from home, then went back when the numbers dropped. Last week she had a high fever, and of course, it was COVID. She is still pretty sick this week, but thank the good lord for the vaccine. How dare you discount those deaths? That is someone's loved one. In our family we've know five people who died. Only two had significant comorbidities. Even then, any death is a death. We get it. You DO NOT want to be told what to do, but at least have respect to those who have lost loved ones or those who DO have medical issues. GRRRR. I am so sorry your daughter is suffering. I agree with everything you said here. Every life is precious. And I personally will do whatever I can to help protect that life, even if if have to keep wearing a mask for many years. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 18:37:25 GMT
We now know that the overwhelming number of deaths, over 75%, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities, so really these are people who were sick to begin with. I rarely comment on these threads, but this comment right here makes me so mad I just can't let it go. My youngest daughter has an autoimmune disease. We kept her home until the vaccine was available, then she started school this fall fully vaccinated. When we had an Omincron surge after Christmas, she studied from home, then went back when the numbers dropped. Last week she had a high fever, and of course, it was COVID. She is still pretty sick this week, but thank the good lord for the vaccine. How dare you discount those deaths? That is someone's loved one. In our family we've know five people who died. Only two had significant comorbidities. Even then, any death is a death. We get it. You DO NOT want to be told what to do, but at least have respect to those who have lost loved ones or those who DO have medical issues. GRRRR. Be pissed at her then!!! |
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 22, 2022 18:43:06 GMT
Wow. How is it possible to be so ill-informed. Of course people will still get covid, even if masked. The question is WILL LESS GET IT THAN IF NO ONE IS MASKED. FFS. Do you have to work hard to be so uninformed? Or does it come naturally? Then the mask doesn't help at all does it. Actually, logic comes naturally for me. Logic may come naturally to you but itâs clear common sense doesnât. Anyway. When you are in a car do you wear a seatbelt? People, with common sense, wear seatbelts because in case of an accident a seatbelt can and does protect the occupants from injury, or serious injury or even death. Will a seatbelt completely protect the occupant from injury in all accidents. No, letâs face it if a train hits a car at high speed or a big rig crashes head on into a car the changes of survival are nil to none. But yet common sense tells a reasonable person itâs in their best interests to wear a seatbelt at all times when in a car. Because the odds are in their favor of surviving an accident and surviving it without a serious injury. That same analogy can be applied to wearing masks. Are masks going to 100% stop one from getting or spreading the virus. No. But they provide some protection that increases with the type of masks used. The lowest % I saw was 30-35% for the basic two layer cloth masks and the % goes up from there depending on the type of masks. And depending on the circumstances 30-35% may be enough to protect you from getting the virus and stop you from spreading the virus. I would be remiss if I didnât point out as good as the vaccines are in preventing people from getting really sick and dying, they are cases where even vaccinated people have died from the virus. And common sense should tell a reasonable person that every little bit of protection from this virus is a good thing. From Zebra⊠FAQs about seat beltsQ: Do seat belts really save lives? A: At the end of the day, research and data have shown that seat belts really do make the difference between life and death. According to the NHTSA, among drivers and front-seat passengers, seat belts reduce the risk of death by 45% and cut the risk of serious injury by 50%. Q: How deaths do seat belts cause? Despite the common concern that a seatbelt might trap you in your car in the event of a car crash, seat belts are more likely to save your life by preventing you from hitting your head and getting knocked unconscious. Q: How effective is the seat belt? According to Edgar Synder, âstatistics show that seat belts save lives. When used correctly, wearing a seat belt reduces the risk of fatal injury to front-seat passenger car occupants by 45%, and risk of moderate-to-critical injury by 50%.â A: How many lives do seatbelts save? The NHTSA claims that in 2016, seat belts saved nearly 15,000 lives. But nearly 2,500 more lives would have been saved if everyone had buckled up. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 22, 2022 18:54:03 GMT
I rarely comment on these threads, but this comment right here makes me so mad I just can't let it go. My youngest daughter has an autoimmune disease. We kept her home until the vaccine was available, then she started school this fall fully vaccinated. When we had an Omincron surge after Christmas, she studied from home, then went back when the numbers dropped. Last week she had a high fever, and of course, it was COVID. She is still pretty sick this week, but thank the good lord for the vaccine. How dare you discount those deaths? That is someone's loved one. In our family we've know five people who died. Only two had significant comorbidities. Even then, any death is a death. We get it. You DO NOT want to be told what to do, but at least have respect to those who have lost loved ones or those who DO have medical issues. GRRRR. Be pissed at her then!!! WOW, 78% of 36 people out of 12 million died with four comorbidities!,... How about those with one comorbidity or even two or three? |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 18:55:23 GMT
Then the mask doesn't help at all does it. Actually, logic comes naturally for me. Logic may come naturally to you but itâs clear common sense doesnât. Anyway. When you are in a car do you wear a seatbelt? People, with common sense, wear seatbelts because in case of an accident a seatbelt can and does protect the occupants from injury, or serious injury or even death. Will a seatbelt completely protect the occupant from injury in all accidents. No, letâs face it if a train hits a car at high speed or a big rig crashes head on into a car the changes of survival are nil to none. But yet common sense tells a reasonable person itâs in their best interests to wear a seatbelt at all times when in a car. Because the odds are in their favor of surviving an accident and surviving it without a serious injury. That same analogy can be applied to wearing masks. Are masks going to 100% stop one from getting or spreading the virus. No. But they provide some protection that increases with the type of masks used. The lowest % I saw was 30-35% for the basic two layer cloth masks and the % goes up from there depending on the type of masks. And depending on the circumstances 30-35% may be enough to protect you from getting the virus and stop you from spreading the virus. I would be remiss if I didnât point out as good as the vaccines are in preventing people from getting really sick and dying, they are cases where even vaccinated people have died from the virus. And common sense should tell a reasonable person that every little bit of protection from this virus is a good thing. From Zebra⊠FAQs about seat beltsQ: Do seat belts really save lives? A: At the end of the day, research and data have shown that seat belts really do make the difference between life and death. According to the NHTSA, among drivers and front-seat passengers, seat belts reduce the risk of death by 45% and cut the risk of serious injury by 50%. Q: How deaths do seat belts cause? Despite the common concern that a seatbelt might trap you in your car in the event of a car crash, seat belts are more likely to save your life by preventing you from hitting your head and getting knocked unconscious. Q: How effective is the seat belt? According to Edgar Synder, âstatistics show that seat belts save lives. When used correctly, wearing a seat belt reduces the risk of fatal injury to front-seat passenger car occupants by 45%, and risk of moderate-to-critical injury by 50%.â A: How many lives do seatbelts save? The NHTSA claims that in 2016, seat belts saved nearly 15,000 lives. But nearly 2,500 more lives would have been saved if everyone had buckled up. Here we go with the seatbelt argument again. My wearing a seatbelt does not protect you from getting killed. Lets also remember that if you wear a mask on an airplane or in a restaurant, you might be safe from getting or giving the virus UNTIL YOU PULL IT DOWN FROM YOUR FACE TO EAT OR DRINK. The minute you pull it down, germs are spread/inhaled and all bets are off. And common sense should tell a reasonable person that every little bit of protection from this virus is a good thing.Then by all means, if you want to wear a mask, then wear one. I have had the virus, I have had the vax and I am not afraid of getting covid again. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 18:57:51 GMT
WOW, 78% of 36 people out of 12 million died with four comorbidities!,... How about those with one comorbidity or even two or three? I quoted the director of the CDC. If she misspoke, that's not on me. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 22, 2022 19:00:51 GMT
Actually it could. It could keep you in your seat and might allow you to keep better control of the car, thus saving other lives as well as your own!
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 22, 2022 19:03:34 GMT
Just a response to explain my definition of home research. It is not a substitute for peer reviewed science at all. It is about trying to understand information better to put things into context so that it can help to make informed decisions. Numbers are meaningless without full context. Variables can alter conclusions. Home research is more than trying to keep up with scientific developments for me , it also includes keeping up to date with parliamentary debates and questions , together with health legislation. Knowing funders of trials and any potential conflict of interest. Long term follow ups , selection criteria , reporting of harms , trial protocol, the list goes on. Basically it gives a much better depth of understanding than just a shallow grasp. The old UK health guidelines that were damaging to people with a type of post viral illness were overturned in part by public scrutiny and legal release of clinical trial data through Freedom of Information requests. A court case brought by the UK information Commissioner on behalf of an Australian patient ( harmed by his country following UK NICE guidelines ) was based on his Freedom of Information request . The judge ruled in favour and it was the breakthrough needed to expose manipulated data and false reporting of results . Independent scientific and medical researchers were then able to reanalyse the raw data according to the original trial protocol and publish correct results. It made international news. This all contributed to the previous trial data being officially downgraded through a process of review held by NICE the National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence over several years. It was reported in the UK Parliament as the biggest medical scandal of the 21st Century. The new health guidelines introduced a few months ago would never have changed without patients and their families doing home research. It has been a collective effort. www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng206 I donât whether this is unique to this particular post viral illness but the collaboration between patients /advocates and biomedical researchers has changed the previous dynamics. Post viral research currently also has an impact on Long Covid so I think this pertinent enough to mention it during this thread. Home research is not instead of peer reviewed science but in addition to. Learning and questioning things can bring better understanding and result in significant changes to patient care. Learning and questioning things can bring better understanding and result in significant changes to patient care. This is so vital! And it's astonishing that so many try to put a stop to that. And they wonder why millions of people have so much distrust of the across the board, no exceptions, mass mandated medical treatment being pushed on people who may not need it, by politicians and politicians masquerading as medical experts, and the censorship and shaming from people trying to get others not to question and learn. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 19:06:13 GMT
Actually it could. It could keep you in your seat and might allow you to keep better control of the car, this saving other lives as well as your own! That's a pretty big stretch.... Actually, logically, it could not. If you are in an accident, at the time of the crash, you have no control over your car if you are hit hard enough to lose control of your car. Wearing a seatbelt will protect me but not you. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 22, 2022 19:14:17 GMT
I highlighted it for you above. might allow you to keep better control of the car
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 22, 2022 19:14:29 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 19:15:54 GMT
Seatbelts have nothing to do with masks and your analogy is apples to pizza |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 19:17:55 GMT
I highlighted it for you above. might allow you to keep better control of the carI highlighted it for you too ....at the time of the crash, you have no control over your car if you are hit hard enough to lose control of your car. |
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 22, 2022 19:20:11 GMT
Logic may come naturally to you but itâs clear common sense doesnât. Anyway. When you are in a car do you wear a seatbelt? People, with common sense, wear seatbelts because in case of an accident a seatbelt can and does protect the occupants from injury, or serious injury or even death. Will a seatbelt completely protect the occupant from injury in all accidents. No, letâs face it if a train hits a car at high speed or a big rig crashes head on into a car the changes of survival are nil to none. But yet common sense tells a reasonable person itâs in their best interests to wear a seatbelt at all times when in a car. Because the odds are in their favor of surviving an accident and surviving it without a serious injury. That same analogy can be applied to wearing masks. Are masks going to 100% stop one from getting or spreading the virus. No. But they provide some protection that increases with the type of masks used. The lowest % I saw was 30-35% for the basic two layer cloth masks and the % goes up from there depending on the type of masks. And depending on the circumstances 30-35% may be enough to protect you from getting the virus and stop you from spreading the virus. I would be remiss if I didnât point out as good as the vaccines are in preventing people from getting really sick and dying, they are cases where even vaccinated people have died from the virus. And common sense should tell a reasonable person that every little bit of protection from this virus is a good thing. From Zebra⊠FAQs about seat beltsQ: Do seat belts really save lives? A: At the end of the day, research and data have shown that seat belts really do make the difference between life and death. According to the NHTSA, among drivers and front-seat passengers, seat belts reduce the risk of death by 45% and cut the risk of serious injury by 50%. Q: How deaths do seat belts cause? Despite the common concern that a seatbelt might trap you in your car in the event of a car crash, seat belts are more likely to save your life by preventing you from hitting your head and getting knocked unconscious. Q: How effective is the seat belt? According to Edgar Synder, âstatistics show that seat belts save lives. When used correctly, wearing a seat belt reduces the risk of fatal injury to front-seat passenger car occupants by 45%, and risk of moderate-to-critical injury by 50%.â A: How many lives do seatbelts save? The NHTSA claims that in 2016, seat belts saved nearly 15,000 lives. But nearly 2,500 more lives would have been saved if everyone had buckled up. Here we go with the seatbelt argument again. My wearing a seatbelt does not protect you from getting killed. Lets also remember that if you wear a mask on an airplane or in a restaurant, you might be safe from getting or giving the virus UNTIL YOU PULL IT DOWN FROM YOUR FACE TO EAT OR DRINK. The minute you pull it down, germs are spread/inhaled and all bets are off. And common sense should tell a reasonable person that every little bit of protection from this virus is a good thing.Then by all means, if you want to wear a mask, then wear one. I have had the virus, I have had the vax and I am not afraid of getting covid again. Hey âlogical personâ you may want to rethink the last bit. From Harvard Health⊠âCommon question Can a person who has been infected with COVID-19 get infected again?The immune system responds to COVID-19 infection by stimulating white blood cells called lymphocytes to form antibodies that fight the infection. These antibodies and lymphocytes retain a temporary protective effect against reinfection. But it is only temporary. There have been many confirmed cases of reinfection with COVID-19. In other words, a person got sick with COVID-19, recovered, and then became infected again.6 days agoâ As to the mask, wear it donât wear that is your choice but donât make misleading or outright false statements about the effectiveness of wearing a mask based on your âlogicâ. Masks do provide protection not only from spreading the virus but also from getting the virus. For someone who claims they do their research you seem to be coming up short in that department. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 22, 2022 19:28:40 GMT
I highlighted it for you above. might allow you to keep better control of the carI highlighted it for you too ....at the time of the crash, you have no control over your car if you are hit hard enough to lose control of your car.You are wrong. Two totaled vehicles and I had absolute control of the vehicle I was driving!! Had I not been wearing a seat belt I would have been throw out of the driver's seat! If you read what wrote, I said BETTER control. You cannot have better if you have none. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 19:33:30 GMT
Here we go with the seatbelt argument again. My wearing a seatbelt does not protect you from getting killed. Lets also remember that if you wear a mask on an airplane or in a restaurant, you might be safe from getting or giving the virus UNTIL YOU PULL IT DOWN FROM YOUR FACE TO EAT OR DRINK. The minute you pull it down, germs are spread/inhaled and all bets are off. And common sense should tell a reasonable person that every little bit of protection from this virus is a good thing.Then by all means, if you want to wear a mask, then wear one. I have had the virus, I have had the vax and I am not afraid of getting covid again. Hey âlogical personâ you may want to rethink the last bit. From Harvard Health⊠âCommon question Can a person who has been infected with COVID-19 get infected again?The immune system responds to COVID-19 infection by stimulating white blood cells called lymphocytes to form antibodies that fight the infection. These antibodies and lymphocytes retain a temporary protective effect against reinfection. But it is only temporary. There have been many confirmed cases of reinfection with COVID-19. In other words, a person got sick with COVID-19, recovered, and then became infected again.6 days agoâ As to the mask, wear it donât wear that is your choice but donât make misleading or outright false statements about the effectiveness of wearing a mask based on your âlogicâ. Masks do provide protection not only from spreading the virus but also from getting the virus. For someone who claims they do their research you seem to be coming up short in that department. As to the mask, wear it donât wear that is your choice but donât make misleading or outright false statements about the effectiveness of wearing a mask based on your âlogicâ. Hahahaha!!! If people only had a choice.... Nothing I said was misleading or outright false. Lets also remember that if you wear a mask on an airplane or in a restaurant, you might be safe from getting or giving the virus UNTIL YOU PULL IT DOWN FROM YOUR FACE TO EAT OR DRINK. The minute you pull it down, germs are spread/inhaled and all bets are off. What is misleading about that statement? |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 19:36:00 GMT
I highlighted it for you too ....at the time of the crash, you have no control over your car if you are hit hard enough to lose control of your car.You are wrong. Two totaled vehicles and I had absolute control of the vehicle I was driving!! Had I not been wearing a seat belt I would have been throw out of the driver's seat! If you read what wrote, I said BETTER control. You cannot have better if you have none. You can't make such a broad statement based only on your experience. And you don't know if you would have been thrown out of the drivers seat. That's speculation. It has nothing to do with wearing a mask. |
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Post by chlerbie on Feb 22, 2022 20:07:51 GMT
cindosha I'll play your game and say, OK, 75% of people had comorbidities. (And put aside the fact that some of those comorbidities were no big deal in their lives at the point they died--something they could have lived with for years/decades.) There's been 960,000+ deaths in the US alone, so that's 240 Thousand people with NO issues who've died. No comorbidities. Taken out by COVID.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 22, 2022 20:14:33 GMT
Seatbelts have nothing to do with masks and your analogy is apples to pizza Not my analogy, but in terms of masks and seatbelts, both can and do save lives. If you wear a seatbelt, it can save someone else. Wearing a mask could also save someone else. |
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Post by paigewh on Feb 22, 2022 20:19:34 GMT
I rarely comment on these threads, but this comment right here makes me so mad I just can't let it go. My youngest daughter has an autoimmune disease. We kept her home until the vaccine was available, then she started school this fall fully vaccinated. When we had an Omincron surge after Christmas, she studied from home, then went back when the numbers dropped. Last week she had a high fever, and of course, it was COVID. She is still pretty sick this week, but thank the good lord for the vaccine. How dare you discount those deaths? That is someone's loved one. In our family we've know five people who died. Only two had significant comorbidities. Even then, any death is a death. We get it. You DO NOT want to be told what to do, but at least have respect to those who have lost loved ones or those who DO have medical issues. GRRRR. I am so sorry your daughter is suffering. I agree with everything you said here. Every life is precious. And I personally will do whatever I can to help protect that life, even if if have to keep wearing a mask for many years. Thank you so much! She is still sick 10 days later  I am SO glad she's vaccinated - I know it would have been so much worse! I really appreciate your kind comment. â€ïž |
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Post by paigewh on Feb 22, 2022 20:21:21 GMT
cindosha I'll play your game and say, OK, 75% of people had comorbidities. (And put aside the fact that some of those comorbidities were no big deal in their lives at the point they died--something they could have lived with for years/decades.) There's been 960,000+ deaths in the US alone, so that's 240 Thousand people with NO issues who've died. No comorbidities. Taken out by COVID. Pretty sure she doesn't care. I have been feeling that we've lost so much compassion in this pandemic and her comments solidified that for me đą |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 20:38:54 GMT
cindosha I'll play your game and say, OK, 75% of people had comorbidities. (And put aside the fact that some of those comorbidities were no big deal in their lives at the point they died--something they could have lived with for years/decades.) There's been 960,000+ deaths in the US alone, so that's 240 Thousand people with NO issues who've died. No comorbidities. Taken out by COVID. i quoted the director of the CDC. Its not my game!! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2022 20:39:28 GMT
Seatbelts have nothing to do with masks and your analogy is apples to pizza And your mask argument or pixiechick 's drivel postings has nothing to do with the Truckers in Canada or the mandates that are in place or not, in Canada. THEY DON'T APPLY TO YOU. Way to deflect a thread that has others pointing out that the far right supremacist infiltrated the protest for their own gain. You can't justify their actions so you both go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the thread. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 20:53:20 GMT
Seatbelts have nothing to do with masks and your analogy is apples to pizza Not my analogy, but in terms of masks and seatbelts, both can and do save lives. If you wear a seatbelt, it can save someone else. Wearing a mask could also save someone else. Could... but we really don't know who is infecting who, do we? what are you going to do when they drop the mask mandates? It won't matter, will it, because there will be some people that will still wear them but the majority of people most likely won't... It will be moot at that point. |
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Post by cindosha on Feb 22, 2022 21:12:44 GMT
Seatbelts have nothing to do with masks and your analogy is apples to pizza And your mask argument or pixiechick 's drivel postings has nothing to do with the Truckers in Canada or the mandates that are in place or not, in Canada. THEY DON'T APPLY TO YOU. Way to deflect a thread that has others pointing out that the far right supremacist infiltrated the protest for their own gain. You can't justify their actions so you both go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the thread. Go back and look where the tangent started, it wasn't me. It was directed at me but i didn't start it |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2022 21:36:05 GMT
And your mask argument or pixiechick 's drivel postings has nothing to do with the Truckers in Canada or the mandates that are in place or not, in Canada. THEY DON'T APPLY TO YOU. Way to deflect a thread that has others pointing out that the far right supremacist infiltrated the protest for their own gain. You can't justify their actions so you both go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the thread. Go back and look where the tangent started, it wasn't me. It was directed at me but i didn't start it Doesn't matter who started it, you and a few others always deflect deflect deflect. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2022 21:44:09 GMT
I just want to echo those who feel that all lives matter and count.
Disability or comorbidities do not make a personâs life less valuable. Or that person less loved and missed.
Each person that is lost prematurely through Covid leaves a grieving family behind.
âUnderlying health conditionsâ is a phrase that I have often heard used on news reports when covering sad deaths .
It feels to me as if it is used as poor excuse to cover up pandemic mismanagement and preventable deaths.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Feb 22, 2022 22:44:23 GMT
cindosha I'll play your game and say, OK, 75% of people had comorbidities. (And put aside the fact that some of those comorbidities were no big deal in their lives at the point they died--something they could have lived with for years/decades.) There's been 960,000+ deaths in the US alone, so that's 240 Thousand people with NO issues who've died. No comorbidities. Taken out by COVID. i quoted the director of the CDC. Its not my game!! Except you quoted it for a reason of your own, sounding dismissive to those people who died. |
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Post by chlerbie on Feb 22, 2022 22:44:45 GMT
cindosha I'll play your game and say, OK, 75% of people had comorbidities. (And put aside the fact that some of those comorbidities were no big deal in their lives at the point they died--something they could have lived with for years/decades.) There's been 960,000+ deaths in the US alone, so that's 240 Thousand people with NO issues who've died. No comorbidities. Taken out by COVID. i quoted the director of the CDC. Its not my game!! By "game", I meant your disregard of the people and just saying "Oh, they had comorbidities"---like because someone has high blood pressure or something, or an autoimmune disease that's easily controlled but a disaster if COVID hits--they shouldn't be of any concern. And I see you've got nothing else to say about the 240,000 people who've died WITHOUT comorbidities. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 22, 2022 23:08:18 GMT
Youâre being insidiousâdisingenuous. Again. Where did mergeâs original quote come from? Youâre the OP in the thread in which you pulled a snippet/sentence from merge that she posted on ANOTHER thread. Merge wasnât responding to or quoting you in this thread that you started. So what? Including what made me think of it, in no way minimizes what I said. It unequivocally shows that you posted, commented and then (here in this thread) attached it to a question not even close to context. It paints you as a liar, and it absolutely cancels the context in which you tried to have that âgotchaâ moment against merge. Epic fail on your part. Youâre getting sloppy. You gaslight, outright lie, twist words and have repeatedly used quotes by others out of context. |
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I am SO glad she's vaccinated - I know it would have been so much worse! I really appreciate your kind comment. â€ïž 
