PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Mar 27, 2022 1:14:14 GMT
I'm disappointed that a teacher labeled this 6th grade student as a thief & liar with ZERO proof. It was not mentioned whether the teacher counted the candy on the desk before leaving the classroom unattended; if not, then there is no proof any of the candy on the teacher's desk was taken/a theft even occurred! The student voluntarily claimed & took responsibility for the wrapper & not depositing it in the trash. It is possible the student's explanation is true (ie has a big bag of the same candy at home, brought two to school, & ate one in homeroom & the other before this class started). I expect parents receiving this type of email from a teacher would inquire the reason their child is not considered credible & was threatened with a personal property search over an empty candy wrapper & in front of an audience of peers.
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Post by Merge on Mar 27, 2022 1:54:41 GMT
I'm disappointed that a teacher labeled this 6th grade student as a thief & liar with ZERO proof. It was not mentioned whether the teacher counted the candy on the desk before leaving the classroom unattended; if not, then there is no proof any of the candy on the teacher's desk was taken/a theft even occurred! The student voluntarily claimed & took responsibility for the wrapper & not depositing it in the trash. It is possible the student's explanation is true (ie has a big bag of the same candy at home, brought two to school, & ate one in homeroom & the other before this class started). I expect parents receiving this type of email from a teacher would inquire the reason their child is not considered credible & was threatened with a personal property search over an empty candy wrapper & in front of an audience of peers. Oh my god. Parents like you are why we're leaving the profession in droves. huskergal , please just walk away from this one. People who don't get it aren't going to get it, and you don't deserve this bullshit. "Public shaming." smdh. Y'all are crazy. Teach your kids not to take things that don't belong to them. Even little things worth pennies. Not theirs, hands off. Teach your kids to tell the truth, even over the small stuff. And remember that while precious is your one and only, he's one of more than a hundred (or several hundred, depending) to his middle school teachers. They don't have time to privately coddle your baby into telling the truth and keeping his hands to himself. That's your job. (I'm a mom, too, and received my fair share of teacher emails about my oldest. Never once did I "inquire as to why my child wasn't considered credible" over a small thing with no real consequence. JFC. The absolute arrogance and short-sightedness in that statement.) ETA: Some of you were never frog-marched back into the grocery store to return a piece of hard candy you'd slipped into your pocket and made to apologize to the manager in front of god and everyone, and it shows.
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Post by Bobomommy on Mar 27, 2022 2:09:51 GMT
You asked how we would respond. I’m a teacher and a mother. I’ll give you my view.
Poverty and food insecurity is real. However, teachers get to know students pretty well by this time of year. If this student had food issues there would have been clues before now. I’ve had several students who are currently homeless or have been in the past. Some steal/hoard food, others take random items, the rest don’t steal at all.
Stealing is stealing whether it’s one piece of candy or the whole bag. My middle child stole one piece of Dove chocolate from the pharmacy. I smelled it when he ate it in the car. We went back to the store, he told the cashier what he did, apologized, and i paid for the candy. When we got home he gave me money from his piggy bank to replace what I had paid. He was four, but he remembered that taking ANYTHING that isn’t yours is stealing. He has thanked me for teaching him that early in life.
Lying is not acceptable. I tell my students that if they take responsibility for their mistakes I can work with them. If they lie to me, then consequences will definitely be given. My oldest once had a substitute in 5th grade. They took a math test right before recess. My daughter didn’t liege math, knew she wasn’t ready for the test, and didn’t want to take it. So she pretended to be writing until it was time for recess. Then she hid the paper in her desk.
The sub counted the papers that were turned in and knew one was missing. She told students to line up as she called their name. She read names from the papers. My daughter would slip in line when someone near her was called. Sub got to the last paper and everyone is in line. The numbers still didn’t add up, so she repeated having all sit down and line up again. My daughter did the same thing. Finally, on the third time, she had them leave the room as she called them. My daughter wasn’t able to slip in line this way.
I was notified. I had my daughter write an apology to the sub and another to the class. The sub received her apology to read privately. The class received a verbal apology for lying and causing them to miss part of their recess time. She said it was scary to stand in front of her friends and apologize even though they all already knew what she’d done. But she has said that the lesson on honesty stuck with her. She has a two-year-old now and knows she wants to teach honesty and responsibility to her own child.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Mar 27, 2022 2:28:39 GMT
I'm disappointed that a teacher labeled this 6th grade student as a thief & liar with ZERO proof. It was not mentioned whether the teacher counted the candy on the desk before leaving the classroom unattended; if not, then there is no proof any of the candy on the teacher's desk was taken/a theft even occurred! The student voluntarily claimed & took responsibility for the wrapper & not depositing it in the trash. It is possible the student's explanation is true (ie has a big bag of the same candy at home, brought two to school, & ate one in homeroom & the other before this class started). I expect parents receiving this type of email from a teacher would inquire the reason their child is not considered credible & was threatened with a personal property search over an empty candy wrapper & in front of an audience of peers. Oh my god. Parents like you are why we're leaving the profession in droves. huskergal , please just walk away from this one. People who don't get it aren't going to get it, and you don't deserve this bullshit. "Public shaming." smdh. Y'all are crazy. Teach your kids not to take things that don't belong to them. Even little things worth pennies. Not theirs, hands off. And remember that while precious is your one and only, he's one of more than a hundred (or several hundred, depending) to his middle school teachers. They don't have time to privately coddle your baby into telling the truth and keeping his hands to himself. That's your job. (I'm a mom, too, and received my fair share of teacher emails about my oldest. Never once did I "inquire as to why my child wasn't considered credible" over a small thing with no real consequence. JFC. The absolute arrogance and short-sightedness in that statement.) ETA: Some of you were never frog-marched back into the grocery store to return a piece of hard candy you'd slipped into your pocket and made to apologize to the manager in front of god and everyone, and it shows. Huh? If this is "over a small thing with no real consequence" [bold above is mine], then why did the teacher involve the parents, especially since it seems any parental response is disparaged? I imagine most parents consider theft & lying serious allegations. So, a teacher can make such accusations about students admittedly based on an assumption, but a parent seeking to understand the reason their student was believed when taking responsibility for the wrapper & its lack of proper disposal but not when claiming it came from home is "absolute arrogance & short-sightedness?" The teacher is making assumptions about the student & the student's parents' values, & now you're doing the same to posters on this thread...
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Post by sideways on Mar 27, 2022 3:11:59 GMT
FFS. Some of you are really batshit crazy.
I’m so glad I’m not teaching anymore. I’ve been on several sides of these situations. I was a teacher. I was that parent whose kid did stupid shit. I’ve also dealt with teachers (and administrators) who made big deals out of nothing. (My son had sharpie drawings on his arm and his dean called me to say he was “wasting school resources”. 🙄)
This is NOT a big deal about nothing. The kid breached her personal space and lied about it. It’s NOT about the CANDY. She never did a “public shaming” of the kid.
Ignore the idiots, husker.
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Post by voltagain on Mar 27, 2022 4:57:40 GMT
I would have been the parent that replied with a simple "thank you for letting me know" I never felt the teacher was owed a more detailed explanation of what we talked about at home and what if any punishment was given. Your thoughts are extremely judgmental and completely without a bias. 6th graders often do things against parental values. The child has a dignity that should not have been pushed so far publicly in your classroom and I certainly am not going to provide you any information to be used against him should there be other issues because you don't seem to know when to stop calling out a child in public for shaming. Wow! There was no public shaming. If you weren't a witness to the incident, you are being very judgmental and drawing conclusions. EVERY STUDENT in the class witnessed the exchange. THAT IS public. You had NO business interrogating that child in front of his peers. NONE. If you wanted to use it as a teaching moment about citizenship then you address the class that someone seemed to have taken a candy from your container without asking and littered. Talk very generically about how taking things without asking is wrong and littering is wrong. But there NEVER EVER should have been questions about who did it. If someone volunteered that information YOU as the adult should have shut it down as something you did not ask.
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Post by voltagain on Mar 27, 2022 5:09:40 GMT
FFS. Some of you are really batshit crazy. I’m so glad I’m not teaching anymore. I’ve been on several sides of these situations. I was a teacher. I was that parent whose kid did stupid shit. I’ve also dealt with teachers (and administrators) who made big deals out of nothing. (My son had sharpie drawings on his arm and his dean called me to say he was “wasting school resources”. 🙄) This is NOT a big deal about nothing. The kid breached her personal space and lied about it. It’s NOT about the CANDY. She never did a “public shaming” of the kid. Ignore the idiots, husker. I my kids were told to ignore stupid teachers. see how this works? I grew up being shamed and unapolgetically mistreated by ignorant teachers like so many of you are exposing your self to be. I wasn't very tolerant of my kids being treated the same way. You wonder why today's society is the way it is; kids spend most of their waking hours with idiot teachers who don't know how to put away personal stuff and shame kids for acting like kids.
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Post by melanell on Mar 27, 2022 12:32:12 GMT
I also have a problem with taking a candy being called stealing. Take someone's book, phone, etc., sitting on a desk is stealing. A candy? This confuses me. Is it only okay because it was at school, or is taking a candy from a store also not stealing? (ETA: This was a sincere question, because I've run into someone before who felt that taking a single cookie from a store was perfectly fine and to me that was also stealing.)
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 27, 2022 13:10:32 GMT
I think you made it about the candy from the beginning when you made the comment about getting the wrapper in the garbage, etc. I could see how the kid might think it was about the candy.
If I was the teacher, I would have talked about boundaries and not taking things from my desk rather than finding out who took the candy. However, I don’t necessarily think that how you handled it was wrong, and situations develop as they go so what each person says is related to what the other persons response is.
If I was the parent, I would say thanks for letting me know, we will talk about it at home. I think you and others are making a lot of assumptions of what the parents did or didn’t say.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 27, 2022 13:19:38 GMT
I’m the mean mom. I would have bought a replacement bag if candy and made the kid do chores to replace the cost of that candy. And I would have insisted he/she apologize. You don’t know that any of that happened. It’s possible the kid was supposed to apologize but just didn’t. that's true but the point is the way it was conveyed to Husker was the overkill THREE bags of candy. That alone is a big statement in my eyes. I’m having a hard time understanding why sending three bags is overkill in the sense that people think that means the parents are being passive aggressive and don’t care about the lying? On the flip side, maybe they decided that the kid needed to pay off $10 for his lying and that is what they bought with that $10. Or it could be neither of those scenarios. We don’t really know. I’m just not seeing how people are jumping to that conclusion based on the three bags. Can you explain?
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Post by sideways on Mar 27, 2022 18:33:38 GMT
FFS. Some of you are really batshit crazy. I’m so glad I’m not teaching anymore. I’ve been on several sides of these situations. I was a teacher. I was that parent whose kid did stupid shit. I’ve also dealt with teachers (and administrators) who made big deals out of nothing. (My son had sharpie drawings on his arm and his dean called me to say he was “wasting school resources”. 🙄) This is NOT a big deal about nothing. The kid breached her personal space and lied about it. It’s NOT about the CANDY. She never did a “public shaming” of the kid. Ignore the idiots, husker. I my kids were told to ignore stupid teachers. see how this works? I grew up being shamed and unapolgetically mistreated by ignorant teachers like so many of you are exposing your self to be. I wasn't very tolerant of my kids being treated the same way. You wonder why today's society is the way it is; kids spend most of their waking hours with idiot teachers who don't know how to put away personal stuff and shame kids for acting like kids. Judging by how this was written and your lack of reading comprehension on my last post, it’s pretty obvious that you ignored your teachers. Today’s society is because of people like you who teach their kids to ignore teachers and not respect boundaries.
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Post by mags243 on Mar 27, 2022 19:15:14 GMT
So many of the responses on here perfectly illustrate why I am so grateful I did not go into education and dissuaded my son when he brought it up. My dad was a principal and my mom was a teacher; they saw the way things were headed, and here we are.
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Post by melanell on Mar 27, 2022 19:15:51 GMT
that's true but the point is the way it was conveyed to Husker was the overkill THREE bags of candy. That alone is a big statement in my eyes. I’m having a hard time understanding why sending three bags is overkill in the sense that people think that means the parents are being passive aggressive and don’t care about the lying? On the flip side, maybe they decided that the kid needed to pay off $10 for his lying and that is what they bought with that $10. Or it could be neither of those scenarios. We don’t really know. I’m just not seeing how people are jumping to that conclusion based on the three bags. Can you explain? For me it's putting all of the emphasis on the candy itself, which to me, is the least important part of the story. If it were my child, I would not have even bothered to send in any replacement candy at all, given that it was one single piece. I would, however, have sent a note/email to the teacher letting them know that we would address the stealing/lying issues. I asked DH as well, and his reaction was the same as mine, that the 3 bags of candy to replace one single piece sounds like they're saying "Oh my gosh, you're whining over one piece of candy?? Fine---here's a boat load of candy." (I will say, though, that the fact that they sent in 3 bags of candy unnecessarily also makes me believe that this is likely not a food insecurity issue.)
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Post by bc2ca on Mar 27, 2022 19:18:31 GMT
This confuses me. Is it only okay because it was at school, or is taking a candy from a store also not stealing? (ETA: This was a sincere question, because I've run into someone before who felt that taking a single cookie from a store was perfectly fine and to me that was also stealing.) FWIW, I think this is an apples to oranges comparison as a store is based on the accepted concept that everything is to be purchased. That said, the store we shopped when my kids were preschoolers gave out free cookies in the bakery department. If no one was at the counter, it was perfectly acceptable to help yourself to one. I also don't bat an eye when someone eats a grape of two in the produce section. Others definitely view that as theft. Teachers have rules that vary from "need a candy, take a candy" to candy is under lock and key until I dispense it, so there is not the same kind of commonly accepted rule to apply that we have with a store. FWIW, none of us have the full back story of the relationship between this teacher/the student/the parents and I get the vibe there is a lot more going on than a missing piece of candy. And "lying" about it.
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Post by melanell on Mar 27, 2022 19:23:09 GMT
This confuses me. Is it only okay because it was at school, or is taking a candy from a store also not stealing? (ETA: This was a sincere question, because I've run into someone before who felt that taking a single cookie from a store was perfectly fine and to me that was also stealing.) FWIW, I think this is an apples to oranges comparison as a store is based on the accepted concept that everything is to be purchased. That said, the store we shopped when my kids were preschoolers gave out free cookies in the bakery department. If no one was at the counter, it was perfectly acceptable to help yourself to one. I understand. Thanks for clarifying.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Mar 29, 2022 1:13:57 GMT
If I got that email, I would have a serious talk with my kid. I would have her hand write a sincere note of apology to the teacher for taking something that didn’t belong to her and especially for lying about it. She would replace what she took and would have to work off the value of the item I had to pay to replace. Just for the record, you can't make a kid write a sincere apology. You can order them to right an apology and at best hope that it is sincere, but I sincerely doubt it would be. At this point the kid is probably bewildered as to how we got to this point and at worst resenting the adults in their life for over reacting. Also, what the heck is the going rate for a piece of candy? Three dishes washed and dried? Thank you. More & more child development specialists are realizing, as they learn about the science of brain development, that these kinds of consequences just aren't effective if your goal is to support your child to become a functioning adult who makes good choices & knows how to think through situations as opposed to a kid who is hooked on external approval & ends up not ever feeling truly secure as an adult. Check out Dr Vanessa LaPointe. Though she focuses on younger children in her book (Discipline without Damage - great read) when I saw her speak she confirmed that it's never too late to start, and the principles apply regardless of age.
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