zella
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Post by zella on May 31, 2022 3:53:11 GMT
Background: Cora, my granddaughter, is 8. My DD and her ex, Doug, have joint custody. Doug is a total twat who never gave two figs about Cora until the divorce, when he had to look good, probably for his new girlfriend Elsa.
DD and her partner just had Covid. When she dropped Cora off at Doug's, she told him. Cora didn't have Covid, and, the way their school district works, she could have gone to school. But no.
Doug and Elsa put (possibly locked) Cora in her bedroom from Sunday 5 pm until Friday am when she went to school. All alone. She had a walkie talkie to communicate with them. She wasn't allowed to use the bathroom upstairs, or take a shower. She could only use the downstairs toilet (no shower down there), and she had to wear a mask. One time Doug forgot his walkie talkie and put on his earphones to play video games. This is a man who can play for HOURS. So of course Cora couldn't contact him at all. Cora can't tell time yet, so we have no idea how long this went on. They fed her by handing her food through the door.
This is an EIGHT YEAR OLD CHILD! We are all fucking LIVID! And poor Cora is utterly traumatized!
So the plan so far is:
Go to court first thing tomorrow to try and get a temporary custody injuction
Call police on non-emergency # and ask what should be done
Get Cora in to a counselor asap to verify her state of mind (and hopefully help)
Call CPS on Doug
What do you all think? I'm so angry. He doesn't deserve this child. He never has. They lived with us for 2 years and he barely paid her any attention. The only reason he does this I think is so he pays less child support. Anyway, am I missing anything? Personally I think this should be the final nail in his coffin; he's done a lot of other stupid things but this is the freaking icing on the cake.
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Post by lesserknownpea on May 31, 2022 5:16:13 GMT
I’d talk to a lawyer. My understanding is that the pandemic should not interrupt parenting.
I agree with you that’s no way to treat an 8 yo.
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Post by christine58 on May 31, 2022 9:31:16 GMT
Call CPS. That’s abuse
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Post by twinks on May 31, 2022 10:46:41 GMT
As maddening and upsetting as this is, you and your DD need to first of all, control your emotions. So what if he played video games? So what if she didn’t have a shower? Put the shoe on the other foot. Say her father and his partner had Covid and the granddaughter came to your DD’s house. She needs to be quarantined. Your DD and her partner need to work. That is 2 weeks off of work if they get Covid. There are a lot of factors involved. While it isn’t the way your DD would handle things, I don’t see the real harm. And grandma, I am saying this with all the love possible along with the understanding that you hurt doubly, you need to listen and be supportive, but that is all you should do. Don’t judge him on past behavior. Of course your granddaughter didn’t have any fun. Who likes quarantine and isolation? Covid isn’t fun.
At the very most, this poor child needs to have a counselor. Someone neutral who she can talk to and someone who can alert you to any problems. Counseling should be an ongoing option. That leaves your DD and you, as the loving grandmother, out of the equation. I would welcome my DD home with open arms. Listen to how traumatic it was, give her a nice warm shower and do all of her favorite comfort things.
If your DD wants to do something, she should contact her attorney.
When I began this whole visitation thing with my DD to never let my emotions get to me. Just let things happen. Make notes, keep a journal, etc. but don’t let your child ever see anything. Trust me it is hard. Don’t ever speak ill of her father or let her see that you don’t like what he did.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on May 31, 2022 11:07:30 GMT
Did your dd call and give dad a heads up that there was COVID in the house? Sounds like dad and stepmom were caught off guard, unaware of updated protocols (or perhaps have risk factors you’re unaware of) and were trying to do what they thought was best.
Now I don’t agree with keeping a kid locked in her room for several days and it could be a CPS issue, a call to the lawyer wouldn’t hurt either but your dd (not you!) needs to ask herself what she would have done had this situation happened at her house in December.
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Post by littlemama on May 31, 2022 11:30:47 GMT
I think without a calm, rational conversation about what their thought process was, there is no way to know ehat actually happened or why. There seems to be a lot of emotions standing in the way of determining the facts. It sounds like they had her quarantined due to her exposure to Covid. She had a bedroom, a bathroom, food, and a way to communicate with them.
I suspect that Cora being "utterly traumatized" may have something to do with the emotions coming from the adults. Im also confused about an 8 year old not being able to tell time. That is a skill taught in Kindergarten.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on May 31, 2022 11:55:25 GMT
I have to agree with the above people who are saying "take a deep breath." Really try to come at this without emotion. I absolutely understand your anger and frustration but in reading it, they took in a kid from a household that had covid and reacted to that. Maybe it was an extreme reaction but I would have her talk to a therapist before I would diagnose her as "utterly traumatized."
I also hope, for Cora's sake, that you aren't talking about all of this in front of her. Don't burden her with the issues you and her mother have with her father. It's not fair.
I hope she's okay; I hope she remains covid-free and I hope that all of you can come to a place of peace for Cora's sake.
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Post by Skellinton on May 31, 2022 12:23:17 GMT
I say this with a lot of kindness, but I think you need to take a deep breath and not react until you have calmed down a bit.
You don't know that the child was locked in the bedroom (you say probably in your op) so unless that is for sure what happened there is no need to call CPS or the non emergency police.
Regarding the quarantining of the child, the dad may not be aware of the new guidelines or maybe they have circumstances where they need to be extra cautious.
My cousin just had COVID and she made her son quarantine with her because he had mild symptoms and the tests are pretty unreliable right now. She tested negative with PCR but positive on home tests. He tested negative with home test but positive on PCR. It is a good thing she quarantined my nephew because the PCR results took 72 hours. That is 3 days he could have been at school spreading it around.
Regarding making her wear a mask while out of her room, that is certainly not a big deal.
It sounds like the positive status of your daughter was a surprise to her ex and that should have been communicated to him prior to drop off, maybe she could have just stayed home with her mom.
Your granddaughter was fed, she had access to a bathroom (although I do think that is a long time to not shower, that isn't long enough that it would be considered neglect or abuse) , and a way to communicate with her dad. You don't have any idea how long she was not able to reach him in the walkie, kids are not great about estimating time. 5 minutes and an hour are not that different to them depending on the circumstances.
I don't think it was a great handling of the situation, but I don't think your reaction is reasonable either. You say she is traumatized. That might be due to the reaction she is getting from her mom and you. She was likely bored, but I can't see anything you described as being traumatizing.
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Post by Skellinton on May 31, 2022 12:26:58 GMT
I think without a calm, rational conversation about what their thought process was, there is no way to know ehat actually happened or why. There seems to be a lot of emotions standing in the way of determining the facts. It sounds like they had her quarantined due to her exposure to Covid. She had a bedroom, a bathroom, food, and a way to communicate with them. I suspect that Cora being "utterly traumatized" may have something to do with the emotions coming from the adults. Im also confused about an 8 year old not being able to tell time. That is a skill taught in Kindergarten. Time telling is taught in 1 and 2 here and let me tell you kids 8 often still can't tell time. I agree with the rest of your post though! |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on May 31, 2022 12:56:15 GMT
I think your DD should have talked to the dad ahead of time to see what they wanted to do regarding DD since she had been exposed to Covid. It sounds like there is more to the story that leads you to feeling the way you are, but based on this situation alone I am not seeing a huge issue unless he actually did lock her in the room. When youngest DS (9 at the time) was exposed to Covid we had him stay in a separate room. When he came out to go to the bathroom he wore a mask. That was early in the pandemic but even when I had Covid in February of this year I stayed in the bedroom by myself for several days to avoid anyone else getting sick.
I also agree that the emotions that you and DD have are likely what is leading granddaughter to be upset about the situation. I hope that you are able to keep your opinions of him to yourself. If what you are saying is true, the girl will make her own opinions of him.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:26:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 13:32:32 GMT
The first lesson taught at MEND therapy and in PCIT as well as DIR Floortime Therapy is that kids react to adult emotions and are not old enough to process OUR feelings and emotions.
And they act accordingly. Because they are big emotions for little kids. Even teens.
It seems like therapy for all (individual) would be a good thing. It will help your dd learn to handle these situations better. And this is coming from someone who deals with some heavy things in life.
Your dd also needs to meet with both sides and put into place Covid and other illness protocols so everyone is on the same page.
Dd dropped the ball.
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Post by epeanymous on May 31, 2022 13:35:59 GMT
One additional thing, if your granddaughter is feeling awful about the situation, I am not sure that being interviewed by police and/or CPS is going to make her feel less awful. I am not saying, never call them, but I am saying, be pretty sure before you do that you want to subject the child to that.
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Post by mom on May 31, 2022 13:59:14 GMT
What makes you think Cora is 'utterly traumatized'?
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:26:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 14:00:45 GMT
Also to add...your dd needs to take into account how ex must have felt by not being alerted to a Covid positive house except at drop off.
If she would have told ex earlier, they could have planned what to do with dgd.
You can not expect there to be an agreed upon way to handle Covid when there is no warning or no pre agreed upon method of how to handle the situation.
Your dd has just as much blame in this than her ex.
I think it would be best to get rid of the anger and direct the issues back to your household. Dd needs to handle this better herself.
You can't expect ex to handle the situation better if there is no warning and agreed upon way to handle illness.
He took precautions as he saw fit.
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kibblesandbits
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Post by kibblesandbits on May 31, 2022 14:01:31 GMT
Unless your granddaughter lives with you, this situation is non of your business. Let your daughter handle her business. You have no control here.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by zella on May 31, 2022 14:13:21 GMT
As maddening and upsetting as this is, you and your DD need to first of all, control your emotions. So what if he played video games? So what if she didn’t have a shower? Put the shoe on the other foot. Say her father and his partner had Covid and the granddaughter came to your DD’s house. She needs to be quarantined. Your DD and her partner need to work. That is 2 weeks off of work if they get Covid. There are a lot of factors involved. While it isn’t the way your DD would handle things, I don’t see the real harm. And grandma, I am saying this with all the love possible along with the understanding that you hurt doubly, you need to listen and be supportive, but that is all you should do. Don’t judge him on past behavior. Of course your granddaughter didn’t have any fun. Who likes quarantine and isolation? Covid isn’t fun. At the very most, this poor child needs to have a counselor. Someone neutral who she can talk to and someone who can alert you to any problems. Counseling should be an ongoing option. That leaves your DD and you, as the loving grandmother, out of the equation. I would welcome my DD home with open arms. Listen to how traumatic it was, give her a nice warm shower and do all of her favorite comfort things. If your DD wants to do something, she should contact her attorney. When I began this whole visitation thing with my DD to never let my emotions get to me. Just let things happen. Make notes, keep a journal, etc. but don’t let your child ever see anything. Trust me it is hard. She should also have a plan in place for any real physical abuse. Don’t ever speak I’ll of her father or let her see that you don’t like what he did. I understand your point, I do, but when he was playing games Cora had no way of contacting him or any other adult. I actually found a website from a children's hospital that talked about how to isolate kids. Teens can stay away from others, but not 8 year olds. I am across the country and can't help out at all other than with advice, hence asking here. |
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zella
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Post by zella on May 31, 2022 14:19:05 GMT
Did your dd call and give dad a heads up that there was COVID in the house? Sounds like dad and stepmom were caught off guard, unaware of updated protocols (or perhaps have risk factors you’re unaware of) and were trying to do what they thought was best. Now I don’t agree with keeping a kid locked in her room for several days and it could be a CPS issue, a call to the lawyer wouldn’t hurt either but your dd (not you!) needs to ask herself what she would have done had this situation happened at her house in December. No, they're fully vaccinated, healthy adults. He could have had DD keep Cora for an extra week, which she would have happily done. She had tried to call him to tell him earlier, but he didn't answer his phone (he often won't if he sees it's DD calling). He also could have called DD to come pick Cora up. That would have been fine too. Not sure why you said December...He and his girlfriend both work from home. DD is a stay-at-home mom and her partner just had the previous week off work due to Covid. |
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psiluvu
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Post by psiluvu on May 31, 2022 14:21:51 GMT
Remember you are only getting one side of the sorry and by the sounds of it you are getting it from someone who loves drama soo....
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Post by silverlining on May 31, 2022 14:32:13 GMT
If someone who is a loving parent did this, you would see it as overly cautious, but not malicious.
Sometimes divorce sucks for children because of the animosity between the parents. You can't change who your dd chose to have a child with or if she overreacts and escalates conflicts with her ex. Maybe you can be a calming influence to help your granddaughter.
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Post by vintagehollyhobbie on May 31, 2022 14:42:53 GMT
This is the actual issue here. Your DD dropped off their recently exposed to Covid daughter with no heads up. If he didn't answer the phone, why no text message or email? It seems that your daughter and her ex need to work on their co-parenting.
Calling CPS over this, is insane. She had food, clothes, a walkie-talkie, a safe place to stay, and certainly could have knocked on the door or yelled for an adult. She had access to leave the room to use the restroom.
The phone call that needs to be made is to a family therapist, for your DD and her ex to work out their terrible communication. That's why your granddaughter is traumatized. She had no heads up that she would have to quarantine. That responsibility rests with your daughter for sending her to her dad's, without letting him know in advance that she was living with two people with Covid.
I'm sorry your granddaughter was upset over this. None of it was her fault. The fault is non-communication of her parents.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by zella on May 31, 2022 14:43:36 GMT
My DD called me because she was so angry and upset and didn't know what to do. Cora was behaving strangely when she came back to DD's from her Dad's, and was crying a lot, very clingy. Finally told this story. Understand that at DD's house she is ALWAYS around others, including her 2 brothers, and she is super outgoing. Cora may be able to tell time on a digital clock (in fact I'm sure she can)... she probably doesn't have one in that room.
As for DD dropping the ball, as I mentioned Doug won't answer her calls. I believe he ignores her texts too. She has a really hard time getting hold of him. So she DID try on multiple occasions to tell him about the Covid situation, but he ignored it. If he'd just looked up how to deal with a younger child in such circumstances, he'd have found that you do not isolate kids that young as it can be harmful to their emotional wellbeing and because that's just not right. You all wear masks, you try to stay 6 feet apart, you don't share personal items. Done. And remember, Cora didn't have Covid, hasn't got it, and I believe is immunized.
How does DD know she's traumatized? Oh, I don't know. She's collapsing in floods of tears frequently. She keeps talking about the week and how scared and lonely she was. She doesn't want to be alone even to sleep, which isn't like her. She's just not acting normal at all. She must have either been locked in or threatened in some way since she didn't come out even when she had no communication and needed something (the video game incident). What you need to know there is that that was a huge issue in the marriage. He'd play all night then sleep all day and not help with Cora, when she was a baby, at all. Or play all day and not talk to Quiera. He even threw his stuff away at one point and swore he wouldn't play anymore (he was clearly a gaming addict). I don't think that even lasted 3 weeks. So he'll put that before people.
Frankly I'm shocked so many people think it's okay to tell an 8 year old she can't leave her room for 5 days except to use the downstairs toilet, and to not provide her with any human company. That's cruel.
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Post by greendragonlady on May 31, 2022 14:49:16 GMT
I think without a calm, rational conversation about what their thought process was, there is no way to know ehat actually happened or why. There seems to be a lot of emotions standing in the way of determining the facts. It sounds like they had her quarantined due to her exposure to Covid. She had a bedroom, a bathroom, food, and a way to communicate with them. I suspect that Cora being "utterly traumatized" may have something to do with the emotions coming from the adults. Im also confused about an 8 year old not being able to tell time. That is a skill taught in Kindergarten.My grandson is in third grade and he is just being taught to tell time on an analog clock. I have heard some schools don't teach it at all anymore, along with no cursive. |
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maryannscraps
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Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on May 31, 2022 14:55:41 GMT
I'm another one who thinks you need to take a step back. I think the peas are not as emotionally invested in the situation, and can see it from multiple points of view. Please please please do not add more emotional turmoil to poor Cora's plate. She needs to know that she is and was safe, and that both her parents are looking out for HER best interest and not involved in blaming the other for how a child with covid is being dropped off without communication during a pandemic and subsequently separated from the rest of the family to avoid spreading it.
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zella
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Post by zella on May 31, 2022 14:57:05 GMT
I wish I could tell you all what a jerk this man is. Remember, I LIVED with him and saw him interact with Cora for TWO YEARS. So I know. He also treated DD unbelievably badly. I kept my mouth shut that whole time. I'd talk to my other daughter when I was about to blow. DD really does live up to her end of this parental arrangement. He doesn't. He likes to make things difficult for her. We have pages of examples of that. He often won't even respond to her calls when Cora is at his house and DD is supposed to have a daily call with her. Even though DD hates him, she doesn't do that... Cora talks to her dad when she's at DD's house.
Just one example. I was also there when Doug moaned and whined throughout DD's labor because he was so tired, and not long after Cora was born he said he was going to the gym (?), and actually went home and went to sleep for 4 hours. Meanwhile, nanny (me) who is in her 50's, hasn't slept a wink for 2 nights in a row without a word of complaint. Yeah. He's a jerk. Does that color things? Yes. This is still not okay. And DD couldn't keep Cora without telling Doug in advance because of the custody arrangement. He's already sued her (she has no money) for money they AGREED she didn't have to pay him. So she has to do everything to the letter while he gets to be a twat.
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zella
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Post by zella on May 31, 2022 14:59:10 GMT
If someone who is a loving parent did this, you would see it as overly cautious, but not malicious. Sometimes divorce sucks for children because of the animosity between the parents. You can't change who your dd chose to have a child with or if she overreacts and escalates conflicts with her ex. Maybe you can be a calming influence to help your granddaughter. No, I'd still be appalled just because of the age. Teenager? Fine. Eight? No way. |
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maryannscraps
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Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on May 31, 2022 15:09:46 GMT
I wish I could tell you all what a jerk this man is. Remember, I LIVED with him and saw him interact with Cora for TWO YEARS. So I know. He also treated DD unbelievably badly. I kept my mouth shut that whole time. I'd talk to my other daughter when I was about to blow. DD really does live up to her end of this parental arrangement. He doesn't. He likes to make things difficult for her. We have pages of examples of that. He often won't even respond to her calls when Cora is at his house and DD is supposed to have a daily call with her. Even though DD hates him, she doesn't do that... Cora talks to her dad when she's at DD's house. Just one example. I was also there when Doug moaned and whined throughout DD's labor because he was so tired, and not long after Cora was born he said he was going to the gym (?), and actually went home and went to sleep for 4 hours. Meanwhile, nanny (me) who is in her 50's, hasn't slept a wink for 2 nights in a row without a word of complaint. Yeah. He's a jerk. Does that color things? Yes. This is still not okay. And DD couldn't keep Cora without telling Doug in advance because of the custody arrangement. He's already sued her (she has no money) for money they AGREED she didn't have to pay him. So she has to do everything to the letter while he gets to be a twat. We get it. Everybody hates him. But that's never going to change, and your daughter needs to find a way to work with him even though he's a jerk. Cora will figure that out soon enough on her own, and she really should have a therapist in place to help her with that. She doesn't need the adults in the house causing lots of inflamed emotions for her on something beyond her developmental capabilities that she has absolutely no control over right now. You know he's never going to change and (you especially) won't be able to change him. All you can do is mitigate the damage and make Cora feel safe and loved. Your DD needs to figure out a way to communicate with him for the important stuff, like dropping off a covid-positive child. Everyone needs to grow up and figure out an unemotional method of conveying important information about their daughter. |
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Post by twinks on May 31, 2022 15:17:29 GMT
Co-parenting is hard. Communication is critical. Cora’s parents sound like they need someone to help them.
As a grandparent/parent across the country, all you should be doing is listening and being supportive. Be the safe place, the neutral zone. Let your DD figure it out without having to deal with your emotions as well. It sounds to me like you are fueling the fire so to speak. You can be validating and supportive without being judgmental. Your granddaughter is reacting to everyone’s emotions. She is most likely reacting to the questioning and everyone’s upset. You need to calm down and your daughter needs to calm down, too.
He isn’t your daughter. He is going to do things differently. He isn’t going to do things exactly like you or your daughter. Different is just that, it is different. It isn’t necessarily bad. I doubt he was malicious or neglectful.
Like I said in my previous post, seems like your granddaughter and everyone involved could benefit from some counseling.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 31, 2022 15:27:59 GMT
As for DD dropping the ball, as I mentioned Doug won't answer her calls. I believe he ignores her texts too. She has a really hard time getting hold of him. So she DID try on multiple occasions to tell him about the Covid situation, but he ignored it.sounds like this is a terrible issue to have- isn't reasonable communication between the two parents something that should be part of the joint custody agreement? Him ignoring all of her communications seems unacceptable to me, from the legal standpoint of a custody agreement. And if it's true that he plays video games to the exclusion of everything else- and it sounds like you know he has had a a problem with that in the past- then IMO, it was pretty sh!tty of him to be only communicating with Cora via a walkie talkie. He just 'left her' for however long, playing video games? What if she had tripped, fallen, hurt herself, etc. and he didn't realize it because of his video gaming?? That is terrible. To me, he sounds like a pretty piss-poor parent. (we don't have kids, but even with our cats and dogs, I make sure I know where they are and what they're doing, if they're not in our general vicinity, for gosh sakes!!) |
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Post by twinks on May 31, 2022 15:29:26 GMT
We get it! He is a jerk. If he wasn’t then your DD would probably be still married to him. That doesn’t mean he is a jerk to his daughter.
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J u l e e
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Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on May 31, 2022 15:31:02 GMT
The first lesson taught at MEND therapy and in PCIT as well as DIR Floortime Therapy is that kids react to adult emotions and are not old enough to process OUR feelings and emotions. And they act accordingly. Because they are big emotions for little kids. Even teens. I think I we’d all agree that it’s super hard to process this and leave emotions out. But it really is the best for everyone involved. One of the the best things I ever did as a new parent was ISR self rescue survival swimming lessons for my daughter when she was three or four. We spent a lot of time at the beach and at the pool and I wanted her to learn how to be in and around water safely. She hated it at first and the instructor was nice but firm. My job was to sit on the side of be pool and paste a calm smile on my face and to not say a word. I was to project calm body language while Quinn cried and flailed about in the water. And when she came out of the pool crying and clinging to me I was to hug her calmly and simply tell her she did a good job learning and not overdo anything with praise or comforting. It was magic. Exhausting for me, but magic for Quinn. And I’ve done similarly many times since in different situations. It’ll be twice as hard but you get to be that now for both your daughter and your granddaughter. And also extra hard if you have to unlearn and undo unhealthy past patterns. But it will be worth it for everyone’s health and sanity. |
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