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Post by papersilly on Aug 1, 2022 19:38:15 GMT
i'm thinking that most illegal immigrants want to stay in the shadows. i doubt they want to broadcast their presence to the US government by filling out a bunch of forms full of their contact/personal info. they probably just want to keep their nose to the ground, find work where they can, and try to exist until a time when they can be eligible for immigration benefits that will legalize their stay.
also, i think the general public oversimplifies the illegal immigrant plight by saying they come, they suck down on benefits, and don't give back in terms of taxes. that couldn't be further from the truth. some of the hardest working (and most exploited) people i have ever met were those without legal status. the immigration journey, literally and figuratively, is one of the hardest journeys people may face just to have a better life.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 1, 2022 21:24:55 GMT
Let's not forget that the entire anti-illegal immigrant argument is rooted in racism and xenophobia. They don't give a flying f*** about any undocumented immigration from anyplace other than the southern border. About 1/3 of undocumented immigrants are people who have overstayed a visa. In other words, they entered the country legally and just stayed after their visa expired. Nobody is looking to stop illegal migration from Canada. If they're white, they're welcome. We need a total reboot of our immigration system. There was a time when people could come up from Mexico and Central America, do seasonal work and return home. Due to immigration policies set up in the past 40 years, that stopped. As a result, people who come here to work have to stay because they can't travel freely across the border. Honestly, is there any reason other than racism and xenophobia why our policies are different for our border with Mexico that for our border with Canada? Nobody is stealing jobs from Americans. We don't have enough Americans to do the jobs that need to be done. If there wasn't any work for undocumented workers, they wouldn't be here. We need policies that allow people to come in to work and offer them protection from exploitation. It shouldn't be controversial. I agree. We should be creating a plan for those who have been waiting at the border for months to be able to come in and legally work. That would help the individuals, businesses, the economy. The only reason people aren't doing that is due to the stigma of illegal immigrants and racism. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 1, 2022 21:32:51 GMT
Things to know about the labor shortage. This is something that is related to the immigrant issue and may help. If we have a labor shortage - which we currently do - there are only 3 ways to solve the shortage. 1. People who currently don't work - students and retired people - will need to enter the labor force, whether they want/need to or not. 2. People who are currently working will need to work more hours, whether overtime at their current job or picking up a second/third job. 3. We will need to bring in immigrants to fill the open positions. Our immigration system is broken. We NEED immigrants to come in and do a lot of jobs that Americans won't do, or won't do for the wages they would be paid. A lot of candidates and politicians talk a big game about "getting rid of the illegals" but the reality is that they wouldn't be coming if there weren't work for them. If you want illegal immigration to stop, start arresting those who are hiring them. It's weird to me - we have a huge drug problem in the US but everyone feels sympathy for the poor victims of addiction and wants to punish the ones making money off of the drugs. But with immigration, it's the opposite - we don't feel sorry for the victims of illegal immigration and we want to punish them while ignoring the ones who are making money off of them.
If you want illegal immigration to stop, stop letting anyone and everyone just waltz in over the borders unchecked. A big part of why we have a huge drug problem in the US is because we are letting the illegal immigrants waltz right in illegally with their drugs. And we are doing nothing about it except to complain that the illegal border crossers are being whipped. If you want the immigrants to the jobs the Americans won't do, bring them in legally and vetted. Through checkpoints. If the border was open as you and Fox says it is, wouldn't there be no need to call people "illegal"? |
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Post by papersilly on Aug 1, 2022 22:16:53 GMT
If you want illegal immigration to stop, stop letting anyone and everyone just waltz in over the borders unchecked. A big part of why we have a huge drug problem in the US is because we are letting the illegal immigrants waltz right in illegally with their drugs. And we are doing nothing about it except to complain that the illegal border crossers are being whipped. If you want the immigrants to the jobs the Americans won't do, bring them in legally and vetted. Through checkpoints. what about all of the people who were vetted and entered legally as tourists, students, etc. BUT they never went back to their origin country when their authorized stay expired. they are now here illegally and there are no doubt millions of them. illegal immigrants are not only those who WALKED IN. there are those flew in and sailed in. many are not poor, or brown, or "look" illegal. this is a race issue as much as it is an immigration issue. drugs. okay. what about the drugs that come in through shipping containers or on planes? the ports and customs can't open every single container that comes in so tons of drugs get in that way. nobody waltzed those drugs in. |
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 1, 2022 22:20:12 GMT
If you want illegal immigration to stop, start arresting those who are hiring them.
If you want illegal immigration to stop, stop letting anyone and everyone just waltz in over the borders unchecked. A big part of why we have a huge drug problem in the US is because we are letting the illegal immigrants waltz right in illegally with their drugs. And we are doing nothing about it except to complain that the illegal border crossers are being whipped. If you want the immigrants to the jobs the Americans won't do, bring them in legally and vetted. Through checkpoints. If the border was open as you and Fox says it is, wouldn't there be no need to call people "illegal"? Her, Fox, Jeh Johnson, Obama. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2022 22:36:46 GMT
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 1, 2022 22:50:44 GMT
If the border was open as you and Fox says it is, wouldn't there be no need to call people "illegal"? Her, Fox, Jeh Johnson, Obama. Obama says that the border is wide open? My point is that if the border was wide open? The people coming through would be coming legally. Hence, no need to call them “illegals” or for them to wait at the border in tents or hire traffickers. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 1, 2022 23:36:41 GMT
Thanks Merge They still don't explain how 400 +/- officers were/got to Uvalde ROBB elementary and did nothing... The allegations come on the heels of a state-imposed review of 2021 traffic stops released Monday. The analysis by Tarleton State University flagged DPS as possibly racially profiling Hispanics based on a disproportionate number of stops and searches, despite finding less contraband in cars with Hispanic drivers than white ones.“There is significant evidence that DPS is engaged in racial profiling — discriminating against Latinx drivers and passengers — in these stops,” reads the federal complaint penned by the ACLU of Texas and the Texas Civil Rights Project. “And, troublingly, the stops turn into deadly vehicle pursuits with alarming frequency.” www.texastribune.org/2022/07/28/texas-dps-pursuits-profiling/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1659372604&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter |
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2022 0:02:37 GMT
Thanks Merge They still don't explain how 400 +/- officers were/got to Uvalde ROBB elementary and did nothing... The allegations come on the heels of a state-imposed review of 2021 traffic stops released Monday. The analysis by Tarleton State University flagged DPS as possibly racially profiling Hispanics based on a disproportionate number of stops and searches, despite finding less contraband in cars with Hispanic drivers than white ones.“There is significant evidence that DPS is engaged in racial profiling — discriminating against Latinx drivers and passengers — in these stops,” reads the federal complaint penned by the ACLU of Texas and the Texas Civil Rights Project. “And, troublingly, the stops turn into deadly vehicle pursuits with alarming frequency.” www.texastribune.org/2022/07/28/texas-dps-pursuits-profiling/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1659372604&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitterAbsolutely. And let's not forget that there are also investigations into the treatment/living conditions of the National Guard soldiers stationed along the border for Abbott's far-right appeasement stunt, especially after a handful of suicides among said soldiers. Abbott knows as well as anyone else that Texas does not operate without undocumented labor. Our economy is dependent on them. But he has to pander to the racists and xenophobes among his base (yes, absolutely, undocumented Mexicans created America's opioid problem! JFC) in order to win the next election. So he can't do the smart thing, which would be to lobby for humane immigration policy for those who come here to work, because of said racists and xenophobes. Besides, the specter of "caravans heading for the border" is way too good of a diversion any time 21 people are shot in a school in small-town Texas and he wants to divert attention. Can't use the bogeyman of eeeeevil brown people if we start allowing them to come here legally to work. |
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 1:25:27 GMT
If the border was open as you and Fox says it is, wouldn't there be no need to call people "illegal"? Her, Fox, Jeh Johnson, Obama. Obama says that the border is wide open? My point is that if the border was wide open? The people coming through would be coming legally. Hence, no need to call them “illegals” or for them to wait at the border in tents or hire traffickers. "That is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders. That is unworkable, unwise and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress." Jeh Johnson, in response to all of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates declaring their open border policies. One of them being Joe Biden. "We're a nation-state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable." Obama, September of last year. Right after more than 15,000 Haitian migrants camped underneath an international bridge in Del Rio, Texas. |
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 2, 2022 3:25:36 GMT
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 5:36:32 GMT
This is a strawman argument and Obama disagrees with you. Jeh Johnson disagrees with you. And to clarify, the argument made was that only cindosha and Fox News said that. As you can see, that is not the case. |
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Post by lucyg on Aug 2, 2022 6:09:43 GMT
It doesn’t matter who thinks what, who said what, or how anyone is interpreting what someone else said. The fact is, we do. not. have. open. borders.
Therefore, blaming anything that happens on our so-called “open borders” is pretty much the original straw-man argument.
Thank you both for promptly discontinuing your use of this wildly inaccurate term.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,306 
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Post by lindas on Aug 2, 2022 12:51:36 GMT
We don’t have an ‘open border’ based on the definition of the term. What we have is an uncontrolled border. Border patrol does not have adequate manpower to handle the influx of people coming across and because of that our existing border laws aren’t being properly in-forced.
I’m not opposed to legal immigration but when you have more people cross our border in the 18 mos Binden’s been president then the population of the state I live in that’s a problem.
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 14:30:59 GMT
We don’t have an ‘open border’ based on the definition of the term. What we have is an uncontrolled border. Border patrol does not have adequate manpower to handle the influx of people coming across and because of that our existing border laws aren’t being properly in-forced. I’m not opposed to legal immigration but when you have more people cross our border in the 18 mos Binden’s been president then the population of the state I live in that’s a problem. Exactly. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2022 14:37:44 GMT
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 14:40:02 GMT
It doesn’t matter who thinks what, who said what, or how anyone is interpreting what someone else said. The fact is, we do. not. have. open. borders. Therefore, blaming anything that happens on our so-called “open borders” is pretty much the original straw-man argument. Thank you both for promptly discontinuing your use of this wildly inaccurate term. When someone is dismissed with "only you and Fox News are saying that" and it turns out Obama, Jeh Johnson and other Democrats at the border are saying it, it suddenly doesn't matter. Funny how that works. It matters. Due to Biden policies, words and actions, have an influx of people that we can not handle. Ask Muriel Bowser in DC. And she only got something like 4000 extra people and she's panicked. |
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 2, 2022 14:44:40 GMT
Immigration has been a problem for at least the last 30 years and Congress has failed miserably at trying to pass reform. All recent presidents, both Republicans and Democrats, have struggled with immigration. The situation was not any better with Trump. He used draconian measures like separating children from their families. The Biden administration is still trying to reunite some of those families. The border is not open and President Biden has not advocated for “open” borders. Both of those statements are blatantly false. Who said what or how something was interpreted is irrelevant and a distraction. For clarification, Former President Obama did not say the borders were open. I think perhaps his comments were taken out of context, misinterpreted or misunderstood. He criticized the idea of open borders, he didn’t say that our borders are open. abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-haitian-migrants-plight-heartbreaking-biden-system-broken/story?id=80267478"Immigration is tough. It always has been because, on the one hand, I think we are naturally a people that wants to help others. And we see tragedy and hardship and families that are desperately trying to get here so that their kids are safe, and they're in some cases fleeing violence or catastrophe," Obama said. "At the same time, we're a nation state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable."
Jeh Johnson criticized the border situation in 2019, under the Trump administration. He disagrees with open borders. Again, Biden is not now, nor has he ever advocated for open borders. www.npr.org/2019/04/02/709017366/illegal-immigration-must-be-addressed-at-the-source-johnson-says |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 2, 2022 15:00:19 GMT
you know this isn't going to actually be read by anyone bleating 'omg, open borders!' don't you? But do I applaud your efforts. There are some very interesting statements in it. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 2, 2022 15:05:56 GMT
It doesn’t matter who thinks what, who said what, or how anyone is interpreting what someone else said. The fact is, we do. not. have. open. borders. Therefore, blaming anything that happens on our so-called “open borders” is pretty much the original straw-man argument. Thank you both for promptly discontinuing your use of this wildly inaccurate term. When someone is dismissed with "only you and Fox News are saying that" and it turns out Obama, Jeh Johnson and other Democrats at the border are saying it, it suddenly doesn't matter. Funny how that works. It matters. Due to Biden policies, words and actions, have an influx of people that we can not handle. Ask Muriel Bowser in DC. And she only got something like 4000 extra people and she's panicked. You are taking things out of context, as usual. I think we can all agree that immigration is an issue, but using inflammatory language, lying, and continuing to make immigration a divisive issue (due to racism) is not helpful. I am willing to bet that we could come up with some good policies if people could work together. But that would include Republicans and, like every other major issue we have in this country, they would rather continue to use it to create division than actually come up with any meaningful change. And you are really willfully ignorant if you think any problems are all due to "Biden's words, policies and actions" and do not look at what happened prior. This isn't a new issue, and Trump didn't solve it. How do you think forcing people to stay in Mexico in tents for months/years has impacted the situation now? |
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 15:44:35 GMT
When someone is dismissed with "only you and Fox News are saying that" and it turns out Obama, Jeh Johnson and other Democrats at the border are saying it, it suddenly doesn't matter. Funny how that works. It matters. Due to Biden policies, words and actions, have an influx of people that we can not handle. Ask Muriel Bowser in DC. And she only got something like 4000 extra people and she's panicked. You are taking things out of context, as usual. I think we can all agree that immigration is an issue, but using inflammatory language, lying, and continuing to make immigration a divisive issue (due to racism) is not helpful. I am willing to bet that we could come up with some good policies if people could work together. But that would include Republicans and, like every other major issue we have in this country, they would rather continue to use it to create division than actually come up with any meaningful change. And you are really willfully ignorant if you think any problems are all due to "Biden's words, policies and actions" and do not look at what happened prior. This isn't a new issue, and Trump didn't solve it. How do you think forcing people to stay in Mexico in tents for months/years has impacted the situation now? You are taking things out of context, as usual. I don't think I am. At least not any more than those with an opposing opinion do. but using inflammatory language, lying, and continuing to make immigration a divisive issue (due to racism) is not helpful. I know I didn't do any of that. But like the "only you and Fox News are saying that" personal digs at Cindosha, matters enough to use it, until it's shown that it isn't true. Then suddenly it doesn't matter. I am willing to bet that we could come up with some good policies if people could work together. Here we agree. But that would include Republicans and, like every other major issue we have in this country, they would rather continue to use it to create division than actually come up with any meaningful change. And then you take it here. You know that it isn't only republicans that do that. Look at the veteran's bill and how the Democrats are using their unnecessary add on, to smear the Republicans, while not taking any responsibility for their own actions that are stalling that. And you are really willfully ignorant if you think any problems are all due to "Biden's words, policies and actions" and do not look at what happened prior. I don't think all of the problems are due to Trump, but making that statement in order to dismiss what his actions and policies ARE contributing to the chaos isn't an honest assessment. |
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 2, 2022 16:25:56 GMT
It doesn’t matter who thinks what, who said what, or how anyone is interpreting what someone else said. The fact is, we do. not. have. open. borders. Therefore, blaming anything that happens on our so-called “open borders” is pretty much the original straw-man argument. Thank you both for promptly discontinuing your use of this wildly inaccurate term. When someone is dismissed with "only you and Fox News are saying that" and it turns out Obama, Jeh Johnson and other Democrats at the border are saying it, it suddenly doesn't matter. Funny how that works. It matters. Due to Biden policies, words and actions, have an influx of people that we can not handle. Ask Muriel Bowser in DC. And she only got something like 4000 extra people and she's panicked. Obama and Jeh Johnson did not say we have open borders. They disagreed with the idea of open borders but did not say we currently have open borders. What other Democrats said we have open borders? |
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2022 16:43:06 GMT
you know this isn't going to actually be read by anyone bleating 'omg, open borders!' don't you? But do I applaud your efforts. There are some very interesting statements in it. I know. I just like putting rational facts out into the void to prove they still exist. |
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 17:38:08 GMT
When someone is dismissed with "only you and Fox News are saying that" and it turns out Obama, Jeh Johnson and other Democrats at the border are saying it, it suddenly doesn't matter. Funny how that works. It matters. Due to Biden policies, words and actions, have an influx of people that we can not handle. Ask Muriel Bowser in DC. And she only got something like 4000 extra people and she's panicked. Obama and Jeh Johnson did not say we have open borders. They disagreed with the idea of open borders but did not say we currently have open borders. What other Democrats said we have open borders? This is what they said: "That is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders. That is unworkable, unwise and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress." Jeh Johnson, in response to all of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates declaring their open border policies. One of them being Joe Biden. "We're a nation-state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable." Obama, September of last year. Right after more than 15,000 Haitian migrants camped underneath an international bridge in Del Rio, Texas. |
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Post by lucyg on Aug 2, 2022 17:58:18 GMT
Obama and Jeh Johnson did not say we have open borders. They disagreed with the idea of open borders but did not say we currently have open borders. What other Democrats said we have open borders? This is what they said: "That is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders. That is unworkable, unwise and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress." Jeh Johnson, in response to all of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates declaring their open border policies. One of them being Joe Biden. "We're a nation-state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable." Obama, September of last year. Right after more than 15,000 Haitian migrants camped underneath an international bridge in Del Rio, Texas. Jeh Johnson was responding to what candidates said. Not to any actual, factual situation in which we have “open borders.” Candidates throw out all kinds of ideas. That doesn’t mean those ideas are ever actually implemented, or even considered. Barack Obama said we cannot have open borders. Not that we DO have open borders. If this is your best argument, you are grasping at straws. |
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 18:25:19 GMT
This is what they said: "That is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders. That is unworkable, unwise and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress." Jeh Johnson, in response to all of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates declaring their open border policies. One of them being Joe Biden. "We're a nation-state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable." Obama, September of last year. Right after more than 15,000 Haitian migrants camped underneath an international bridge in Del Rio, Texas. Jeh Johnson was responding to what candidates said. Not to any actual, factual situation in which we have “open borders.” Candidates throw out all kinds of ideas. That doesn’t mean those ideas are ever actually implemented, or even considered. Barack Obama said we cannot have open borders. Not that we DO have open borders. If this is your best argument, you are grasping at straws. I'm not grasping at straws. Jeh Johnson said their policies were EQUIVALENT IN SERIOUSNESS, VIRTUALLY THE SAME AS* open borders. (the definition of the word that he used- *tantamount) The current escalation of the crisis at the border IS because of what Biden is doing and saying. The people coming across are even saying they came now because of Joe biden. Obama said we can not have open borders in response to the crisis. He was not just musing in general. |
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 2, 2022 18:25:47 GMT
This is what they said: "That is tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders. That is unworkable, unwise and does not have the support of a majority of American people or the Congress." Jeh Johnson, in response to all of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates declaring their open border policies. One of them being Joe Biden. "We're a nation-state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that ... as a practical matter, is unsustainable." Obama, September of last year. Right after more than 15,000 Haitian migrants camped underneath an international bridge in Del Rio, Texas. Jeh Johnson was responding to what candidates said. Not to any actual, factual situation in which we have “open borders.” Candidates throw out all kinds of ideas. That doesn’t mean those ideas are ever actually implemented, or even considered. Barack Obama said we cannot have open borders. Not that we DO have open borders. If this is your best argument, you are grasping at straws. Not only that, but Jeh Johnson’s comments are from 2019. Biden wasn’t even president yet, he couldn’t possibly have been describing the current situation. |
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 2, 2022 18:27:01 GMT
Jeh Johnson was responding to what candidates said. Not to any actual, factual situation in which we have “open borders.” Candidates throw out all kinds of ideas. That doesn’t mean those ideas are ever actually implemented, or even considered. Barack Obama said we cannot have open borders. Not that we DO have open borders. If this is your best argument, you are grasping at straws. Not only that, but Jeh Johnson’s comments are from 2019. Biden wasn’t even president yet, he couldn’t possibly have been describing the current situation. Right. And I never said he was. ETA: This is what I said: Jeh Johnson, in response to all of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates declaring their open border policies. One of them being Joe Biden. |
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 2, 2022 18:27:02 GMT
Jeh Johnson was responding to what candidates said. Not to any actual, factual situation in which we have “open borders.” Candidates throw out all kinds of ideas. That doesn’t mean those ideas are ever actually implemented, or even considered. Barack Obama said we cannot have open borders. Not that we DO have open borders. If this is your best argument, you are grasping at straws. I'm not grasping at straws. Jeh Johnson said their policies were EQUIVALENT IN SERIOUSNESS, VIRTUALLY THE SAME AS* open borders. (the definition of the word that he used- *tantamount) The current escalation of the crisis at the border IS because of what Biden is doing and saying. The people coming across are even saying they came now because of Joe biden. Obama said we can not have open borders in response to the crisis. He was not just musing in general. I don’t know how to make it any more clear. Neither one said we currently have open borders. |
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Post by smasonnc on Aug 2, 2022 18:47:18 GMT
Your friend might be interested to learn that a large percentage of illegal immigrants come into the US on airplanes and overstay their visas, but that’s not as good a photo op or as useful fodder for Fox News to blather about.
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