momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 29, 2022 23:02:18 GMT
Ugh I hate to even ask this question, but someone in my circle has brought up the subject more than once now and I just need confirmation to what I think is true. I have googled it and it seems to support my thoughts, but i'd love further confirmation.
This person thinks that illegal immigrants coming into this country are basically coming in and being handed money from the government. I don't have any experience here and feel very uneducated. It seems to me from a little reading that it isn't true, but somehow I still feel a little uneducated and not sure of myself.
I'm hoping this doesn't turn political, i'd just like the opinion of someone who may be knowledgeable because they work in this area.
|
|
scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,122
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
|
Post by scrappinmama on Jul 29, 2022 23:20:41 GMT
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for benefits such as food stamps, or other federal public benefits. I'm trying to remember if California gives Medi-Cal benefits or not. I moved away from the state a decade ago and haven't kept up with that. Even DACA students cannot receive financial aid. What type of money does your friend believe they are receiving? Is it assistance from a church, such as housing or some other support?
|
|
zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
|
Post by zella on Jul 29, 2022 23:31:24 GMT
It's absolute bullshit. DH and I are both legal immigrants. We were not eligible for any benefits for 10 years after getting a green card, and, because I already had a green card and he didn't, I was financially responsible for him for 10 years. Illegal immigrants get by by working their asses off 6 and 7 days a week, usually doing backbreaking work for little pay (minimum wage doesn't apply to them and they are taken advantage of by employers), living in very crowded situations so that they can afford the rent, and sending their kids to school to learn English. All while also sending money back to family in Mexico or whatever country they came from, where they are even worse off.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 29, 2022 23:32:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Jul 29, 2022 23:33:24 GMT
I suspect your friend doesn't understand the difference between refugees and immigrants.
Refugees do get some government support for a limited time period.
Immigrants, whether documented or undocumented, do not get government support.
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 29, 2022 23:33:59 GMT
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for benefits such as food stamps, or other federal public benefits. I'm trying to remember if California gives Medi-Cal benefits or not. I moved away from the state a decade ago and haven't kept up with that. Even DACA students cannot receive financial aid. What type of money does your friend believe they are receiving? Is it assistance from a church, such as housing or some other support? Thank you! What you have said supports what i'm reading. Unfortunately this has come up more than once in a conversation about why there is such a shortage of workers. Mind you I pointed out to her today that someone who was illegal couldn't legally work in such places she's speaking of. Honestly my head just spins sometimes because the conversation makes so little sense.
|
|
|
Post by silverlining on Jul 29, 2022 23:42:13 GMT
I'm not an immigration expert, but I work with refugees and immigrants. In my area, only refugees with children under 18 qualify for welfare. My experience with undocumented immigrants was that they had jobs. That was the reason they took the risk of entering the US- they came here to work. Many people don't realize that many undocumented workers pay taxes. from Wikipedia: IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[22] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[22] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[23] In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used. "Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security."
|
|
|
Post by katlady on Jul 29, 2022 23:43:47 GMT
California is going to start giving food assistance to illegal immigrants over the age of 55. But other than that, as others above have stated, illegal immigrants generally cannot qualify for government aid.
And as for your example, if the Company is doing things legally, they cannot hire illegals, so it doesn't help with the shortage of workers in most businesses.
|
|
pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,273
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
|
Post by pantsonfire on Jul 29, 2022 23:51:50 GMT
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for benefits such as food stamps, or other federal public benefits. I'm trying to remember if California gives Medi-Cal benefits or not. I moved away from the state a decade ago and haven't kept up with that. Even DACA students cannot receive financial aid. What type of money does your friend believe they are receiving? Is it assistance from a church, such as housing or some other support? I believe it didn't go through as of June of this year though children and pregnant persons can get coverage. I believe there is also a program of disabled immigrants so the child is cared for. I personally was hoping illegal immigrants would be able to buy into ACA/Covered Ca but it was stopped. Any person should be able to have coverage.
|
|
paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,117
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
|
Post by paget on Jul 29, 2022 23:52:17 GMT
Children in my state up to 19 years old can have Medicaid. They can also get low income food programs from school, etc. to my knowledge there is no money given, though. Our state is currently working on offering a form of healthcare to all undocumented adults as well as children.
|
|
pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,273
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
|
Post by pantsonfire on Jul 29, 2022 23:54:59 GMT
Children in my state up to 19 years old can have Medicaid. They can also get low income food programs from school, etc. to my knowledge there is no money given, though. Our state is currently working on offering a form of healthcare to all undocumented adults as well as children. Yes any student here gets free breakfast and lunch and during summer any child 0-18 gets free breakfast and lunch at certain city sites.
|
|
katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,466
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
|
Post by katybee on Jul 30, 2022 3:29:48 GMT
Also—many undocumented immigrants pay into social security because they are using a fake as number, but are never able to claim those benefits. And, unless they are being paid under the table, they pay taxes.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jul 30, 2022 3:53:26 GMT
They also pay sales tax for every purchase and they pay property taxes through their rent (or mortgage if they buy a home with a documented spouse). They’re generally not eligible for any safety net programs except for their children.
The economy of Texas (and probably other states) would look very different without undocumented labor. No one wants to talk about that. They come here, work hard and contribute in most cases, and are treated like a political football by both parties and like parasites by folks like your friend.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Jul 30, 2022 17:23:44 GMT
I’ve always been a proponent of offering work visas to the undocumented. There really is no upside to keeping them in an illegal status. Legalize them and make their visas contingent on employment. More workers, more labor participation, more revenue.
I don’t know what we would do if we didn’t have that workforce and revenue in IL. We’d probably grind to a halt. Manufacturing, hospitality, agriculture, landscaping/arboriculture, construction, foodservice, elder care—these are the industries here that would be most negatively impacted. Last I read about this, our state could lose over $2B in GDP if we force out our undocumented. Thank goodness we don’t adopt that attitude.
|
|
|
Post by birukitty on Jul 30, 2022 17:32:09 GMT
Tell her to stop watching Fox News-it's brainwashing her as much as Hitler brainwashed the Germans with false propaganda against the Jews in Germany. Back then most Germans didn't believe they were being brainwashed either. Same thing with folks today watching Fox News day in and day out.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Jul 30, 2022 18:11:40 GMT
I’ve always been a proponent of offering work visas to the undocumented. There really is no upside to keeping them in an illegal status. Legalize them and make their visas contingent on employment. The upside for politicians - and the Democrats are sadly as guilty of this as the Republicans - is that they have so much value as political pawns. No one in power here is actually interested in crafting humane immigration policy because they don't want to lose that talking point, one way or the other, at election time.
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 30, 2022 23:45:06 GMT
Thanks for all your feedback, I feel a little more educated and curious so i'll be researching a little more too. I also feel more confident if she broaches this subject again. I hate when people just throw out damaging info when they're un/undereducated on it.
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Jul 31, 2022 0:04:08 GMT
Thanks for all your feedback, I feel a little more educated and curious so i'll be researching a little more too. I also feel more confident if she broaches this subject again. I hate when people just throw out damaging info when they're un/undereducated on it. It is really frustrating. I think so much of it is that people want to assign virtue to themselves for circumstances over which they have no control, but, also, a lot of it is a steady stream of disinformation.
|
|
|
Post by kelbel827 on Jul 31, 2022 0:18:44 GMT
I agree with the above. I don't think anything will change her mind. The other thing I hear is people make more in unemployment than they do working, so no one wants to work. I call BS on that, too. In the beginning of the pandemic, we were furloughed for a few weeks. The money I got from unemployment was minimal. There's no way people were living off of that.
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 31, 2022 12:38:08 GMT
I agree with the above. I don't think anything will change her mind. The other thing I hear is people make more in unemployment than they do working, so no one wants to work. I call BS on that, too. In the beginning of the pandemic, we were furloughed for a few weeks. The money I got from unemployment was minimal. There's no way people were living off of that. It's not even so much about changing her mind, she's uneducated in this subject, yet chose to bring it up. If you want to argue your point at least know what you're talking about!! When the subject was brought up I tried to get more information from her because I too am undereducated in this subject. I'm pretty sure as someone mentioned she's hearing bits and pieces of Fox News and just repeating. Agree with you on the unemployment, several of mine were out of work during the covid shutdown, no one was getting rich off employment, they were barely getting by.
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Jul 31, 2022 13:12:06 GMT
California is going to start giving food assistance to illegal immigrants over the age of 55. But other than that, as others above have stated, illegal immigrants generally cannot qualify for government aid. And as for your example, if the Company is doing things legally, they cannot hire illegals, so it doesn't help with the shortage of workers in most businesses. Please don't use the term "illegals". It dehumanizes people.
|
|
doglover
Full Member
Posts: 237
Jun 27, 2014 14:50:33 GMT
|
Post by doglover on Jul 31, 2022 14:22:43 GMT
NJ has given money: New Jersey Immigrant FundYour friend may not literally mean money though, but rather government-funded programs like WIC food, public education, etc.
|
|
|
Post by allison1954 on Jul 31, 2022 14:24:17 GMT
I agree with the above. I don't think anything will change her mind. The other thing I hear is people make more in unemployment than they do working, so no one wants to work. I call BS on that, too. In the beginning of the pandemic, we were furloughed for a few weeks. The money I got from unemployment was minimal. There's no way people were living off of that. During the time that the extra $400 a week was in play, it could definately be true. It was for 2 of my grandsons.
Now, no way
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Jul 31, 2022 14:56:23 GMT
It is really challenging to change the minds of those down the deep Fox News rabbit hole. It requires DEEP conversation, and even then it may not work. I think it's commendable that you're trying to educate yourself about the topic so that you can interrupt her harmful rhetoric. Arguing with her about individual facts may be challenging, but you can start with, "I'm not comfortable with the way you're talking about undocumented people in this country, and my understanding is different from yours." It may also help to humanize the situation. We had Julissa Arce come speak to all our faculty and she's written a couple of books on her experience as an undocumented youth living in Texas. She was touring for her book "My Undocumented American Dream" at the time, and many of us read it. I think it helped a lot of people to frame who undocumented people really are in this country, outside of the ugliness often portrayed by some media. julissaarce.com/What if you offered to read the book together?
|
|
pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
|
Post by pyccku on Jul 31, 2022 15:09:09 GMT
Things to know about the labor shortage. This is something that is related to the immigrant issue and may help.
If we have a labor shortage - which we currently do - there are only 3 ways to solve the shortage.
1. People who currently don't work - students and retired people - will need to enter the labor force, whether they want/need to or not. 2. People who are currently working will need to work more hours, whether overtime at their current job or picking up a second/third job. 3. We will need to bring in immigrants to fill the open positions.
Our immigration system is broken. We NEED immigrants to come in and do a lot of jobs that Americans won't do, or won't do for the wages they would be paid. A lot of candidates and politicians talk a big game about "getting rid of the illegals" but the reality is that they wouldn't be coming if there weren't work for them. If you want illegal immigration to stop, start arresting those who are hiring them.
It's weird to me - we have a huge drug problem in the US but everyone feels sympathy for the poor victims of addiction and wants to punish the ones making money off of the drugs. But with immigration, it's the opposite - we don't feel sorry for the victims of illegal immigration and we want to punish them while ignoring the ones who are making money off of them.
|
|
|
Post by hennybutton on Jul 31, 2022 15:59:53 GMT
Let's not forget that the entire anti-illegal immigrant argument is rooted in racism and xenophobia. They don't give a flying f*** about any undocumented immigration from anyplace other than the southern border. About 1/3 of undocumented immigrants are people who have overstayed a visa. In other words, they entered the country legally and just stayed after their visa expired. Nobody is looking to stop illegal migration from Canada. If they're white, they're welcome.
We need a total reboot of our immigration system. There was a time when people could come up from Mexico and Central America, do seasonal work and return home. Due to immigration policies set up in the past 40 years, that stopped. As a result, people who come here to work have to stay because they can't travel freely across the border. Honestly, is there any reason other than racism and xenophobia why our policies are different for our border with Mexico that for our border with Canada? Nobody is stealing jobs from Americans. We don't have enough Americans to do the jobs that need to be done. If there wasn't any work for undocumented workers, they wouldn't be here. We need policies that allow people to come in to work and offer them protection from exploitation. It shouldn't be controversial.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 31, 2022 16:19:25 GMT
Everyone forgets who picks the crops. Those who follow the crops all across the United States. They start in the warmer states and work north, then most go home and come back next year.
The majority of Americans choose not to take low wage jobs doing what is famously called, 'stoop labor'..
|
|
|
Post by cindosha on Aug 1, 2022 17:58:40 GMT
Things to know about the labor shortage. This is something that is related to the immigrant issue and may help. If we have a labor shortage - which we currently do - there are only 3 ways to solve the shortage. 1. People who currently don't work - students and retired people - will need to enter the labor force, whether they want/need to or not. 2. People who are currently working will need to work more hours, whether overtime at their current job or picking up a second/third job. 3. We will need to bring in immigrants to fill the open positions. Our immigration system is broken. We NEED immigrants to come in and do a lot of jobs that Americans won't do, or won't do for the wages they would be paid. A lot of candidates and politicians talk a big game about "getting rid of the illegals" but the reality is that they wouldn't be coming if there weren't work for them. If you want illegal immigration to stop, start arresting those who are hiring them. It's weird to me - we have a huge drug problem in the US but everyone feels sympathy for the poor victims of addiction and wants to punish the ones making money off of the drugs. But with immigration, it's the opposite - we don't feel sorry for the victims of illegal immigration and we want to punish them while ignoring the ones who are making money off of them. If you want illegal immigration to stop, start arresting those who are hiring them.
If you want illegal immigration to stop, stop letting anyone and everyone just waltz in over the borders unchecked. A big part of why we have a huge drug problem in the US is because we are letting the illegal immigrants waltz right in illegally with their drugs. And we are doing nothing about it except to complain that the illegal border crossers are being whipped. If you want the immigrants to the jobs the Americans won't do, bring them in legally and vetted. Through checkpoints.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 1, 2022 18:49:41 GMT
How quickly you forget that Abbott has been bussing immigrants all over the country and dumping them. BTW: most immigrants are not bringing drugs in, if at all.
If you are so sure of what is going on at the border, go help!!
Remember IMMIGRANTS made this country!! We are all descendents of Immigrants! Indigenous people were here before any of us were, as is the case to our south when the Spaniards arrived!!
|
|
|
Post by smalltowngirlie on Aug 1, 2022 19:11:26 GMT
Like in many situations the few (and I mean VERY few) that come here and have problems, people use as an example to represent the entire population. When in reality, by far most come here to work, have their children get an education and send money back home. I have worked with many undocumented families and the reality is much different than many want to believe.
I can say, I know more white Americans that have abused the system than anyone else. They learned how to work it, and worked it hard.
|
|