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Post by cindosha on Aug 29, 2022 22:54:23 GMT
Cows provide milk which makes butter, cheese as well as the beef. They will never stop producing beef. Not to mention the base for a lot of baby formula. None of that changes the environmental impact of raising animals for human consumption. It’s environmentally expensive to do so. It takes many more resources to produce meat than it does to produce the equivalent nutrition in plant foods. One of the easiest ways is simply to eat less meat. You don’t have to become vegetarian, but you can treat meat more as a side dish than the main component of dinner or simply incorporate a few meals a week that don’t include meat. It’s something we are working on at our house. If you’re not going to eat beef ever again, are you going to give up butter, cheese, yogurt, milk as well? Are you going to eat plant-based meats and milk and cheese and butter? That’s great, but I prefer to eat whole foods instead of hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat. That’s great for you but that will never happen for me. And too bad baby formula will be nothing but chemicals and additives.
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Post by elaine on Aug 29, 2022 23:20:17 GMT
None of that changes the environmental impact of raising animals for human consumption. It’s environmentally expensive to do so. It takes many more resources to produce meat than it does to produce the equivalent nutrition in plant foods. One of the easiest ways is simply to eat less meat. You don’t have to become vegetarian, but you can treat meat more as a side dish than the main component of dinner or simply incorporate a few meals a week that don’t include meat. It’s something we are working on at our house. If you’re not going to eat beef ever again, are you going to give up butter, cheese, yogurt, milk as well? Are you going to eat plant-based meats and milk and cheese and butter? That’s great, but I prefer to eat whole foods instead of hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat. That’s great for you but that will never happen for me. And too bad baby formula will be nothing but chemicals and additives. Where in her post did you read that she wasn't going to ever eat beef again? Specifically? Highlighting would be good. Should I suggest you put on your glasses, like you did to me? Still waiting for your acknowledgement of you falsely accusing me of fabricating something you had said literally within the previous hour.
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Post by cindosha on Aug 29, 2022 23:28:35 GMT
If you’re not going to eat beef ever again, are you going to give up butter, cheese, yogurt, milk as well? Are you going to eat plant-based meats and milk and cheese and butter? That’s great, but I prefer to eat whole foods instead of hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat. That’s great for you but that will never happen for me. And too bad baby formula will be nothing but chemicals and additives. Where in her post did you read that she wasn't going to ever eat beef again? Specifically? Highlighting would be good. Should I suggest you put on your glasses, like you did to me? Still waiting for your acknowledgement of you falsely accusing me of fabricating something you had said literally within the previous hour. I wasn’t replying to you.
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 29, 2022 23:30:40 GMT
In some ways this is kind of funny considering what state it is. From The Hill… link“ Virginia AG says state bound by California rule phasing out new gas-powered cars”“California’s newly-announced rule barring the sale of new gas-powered cars in 2035 will apply to Virginia as well under the terms of a 2021 state law, Attorney General Jason Miyares’s (R) office confirmed to The Hill on Monday. In 2021, the state General Assembly, where Democrats then held majorities in both chambers, passed a law requiring the state to adopt the same automobile standards as those adopted by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Although Democrats lost their majority in the state House of Delegates in 2021, efforts to repeal the legislation in this year’s legislative session were unsuccessful. California’s new rule, passed last week, will also apply to Virginia, Miyares spokesperson Victoria LaCivita confirmed to The Hill. The news was first reported by The Virginia Mercury. The Attorney General is hopeful that the General Assembly repeals this law and discontinues any trend that makes Virginia more like California,” LaCivita told The Hill in an email. “Unelected California bureaucrats should not be dictating the will of Virginians.” Virginia is one of 15 states that have adopted an earlier CARB standard that imposes stricter tailpipe emissions standards than the federal rule. The rule on new gas-powered vehicles does not apply to used cars or restrict the use of existing gas-powered cars. Under the terms of the 2021 law, the California rule would not take effect until 2024, giving Republicans in the legislature at least one more chance to attempt repeal, particularly if they take the state Senate in 2023. Gov. Glenn Youngkin (R) has vowed to prevent the rule from taking effect in Virginia, saying in a statement Friday, “I am already at work to prevent this ridiculous edict from being forced on Virginians.” Although Democrats retain a single-vote edge in the state Senate, Sen. Joe Morrissey (D) has been known to buck his colleagues on votes. California has frequently spearheaded state-level action to reduce auto emissions, a major driver of climate change. Several other states have already announced their intentions to comply with the new rule. Despite the stricter regulations, many automakers have been broadly receptive to phasing out internal combustion vehicles while increasing production of electric vehicles. The lobbying group the Virginia Auto Dealers Association was a vocal backer of the 2021 law, and praised the new requirement as well. “Virginia’s new car dealers are embracing the future of electric vehicles. VADA dealer members supported the adoption of the ZEV standards as part of the state’s commitment to fostering EV adoption, along with charging infrastructure and EV purchase incentives,” President and CEO Don Hall said in a statement. “The state must step up and do its part with all the related policies, in addition to these standards.”
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Post by elaine on Aug 29, 2022 23:33:27 GMT
Where in her post did you read that she wasn't going to ever eat beef again? Specifically? Highlighting would be good. Should I suggest you put on your glasses, like you did to me? Still waiting for your acknowledgement of you falsely accusing me of fabricating something you had said literally within the previous hour. I wasn’t replying to you. Who said you were?
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Post by cindosha on Aug 29, 2022 23:43:01 GMT
I wasn’t replying to you. Who said you were? I’m not interested in getting into an argument with you.
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Post by elaine on Aug 29, 2022 23:55:37 GMT
I’m not interested in getting into an argument with you. Okay. But you are posting on a public message board and accused someone in this thread of saying something she very clearly didn't. I can respond. It being a public message board and all. You don't want to argue? Stop falsely accusing people of things on what is becoming a somewhat regular basis. And/or don't post on a public message board.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Aug 30, 2022 0:28:50 GMT
Can I also throw in that most places no longer allow ANY natural gas appliances? Yep, that's right- EVERYTHING will be electric in almost all homes in CA. We think there's a power supply/grid problem now? Guess what- you haven't seen anything when EVERYTHING including the cars on the road have to be electric. WTF?
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Post by sabrinae on Aug 30, 2022 1:02:16 GMT
None of that changes the environmental impact of raising animals for human consumption. It’s environmentally expensive to do so. It takes many more resources to produce meat than it does to produce the equivalent nutrition in plant foods. One of the easiest ways is simply to eat less meat. You don’t have to become vegetarian, but you can treat meat more as a side dish than the main component of dinner or simply incorporate a few meals a week that don’t include meat. It’s something we are working on at our house. If you’re not going to eat beef ever again, are you going to give up butter, cheese, yogurt, milk as well? Are you going to eat plant-based meats and milk and cheese and butter? That’s great, but I prefer to eat whole foods instead of hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat. That’s great for you but that will never happen for me. And too bad baby formula will be nothing but chemicals and additives. Except I never said anything your claiming I said. I said reduce meat consumption not eat fake stuff.
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 30, 2022 1:41:07 GMT
A few promising steps forward but some challenging roadblocks to overcome www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/08/27/electric-vehicle-charge-time/Soon electric vehicles could charge faster than your iPhone If perfected, the method could charge an electric vehicle’s battery 90 percent within ten minutes, solving an issue skeptics have long had about electric vehicles. In a report released this week, government researchers said they have found a way to charge electric car batteries up to 90 percent in just 10 minutes. The method is likely five years away from making its way into the market, scientists said, but would mark a fundamental shift.www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/22/ev-transition-biden-climate/Big hurdles on the road to moving millions of U.S. drivers into EVs Persuading a reluctant Congress to spend big on electric vehicles may have been the easy part. Now millions of Americans need to be enticed to buy them. The roadblocks to mainstream adoption of the cars are particularly daunting in states like West Virginia, where driver suspicion of the reliability of the technology is compounded by underinvestment in charging infrastructure. When Robert Fernatt gets asked how easy it is to drive across West Virginia in an electric car, the answer is frequently that you can’t. “It is just really tough,” said Fernatt, who heads the state’s chapter of the Electric Auto Association. A large swath of the state has no fast chargers capable of juicing anything other than a Tesla, a luxury car out of reach for most West Virginians.
Even California, the nation’s electrification pioneer, is facing vexing obstacles as it tries to step up the pace of the transition. The cars are so scarce and so expensive that getting drivers into them is tough even with state and federal subsidies for low-income motorists that will soon add up to as much $17,500 for the purchase of a used model.There are 2.5 million registered electric vehicles in the United States, and many of their drivers rave about them. But just getting to that point has been an expensive and resource-intensive undertaking, concentrated largely in a handful of states. Only 5 percent of all new cars sold are zero emissions, and nearly half of those sales take place in a single state, California, according to auto industry and state data.www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/11/electric-vehicle-nickel-mine/Is sustainable mining possible? The EV revolution depends on it. A proposal for a ‘sustainable mine’ in Minnesota has the backing of Tesla. But will it win over the community?
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,151
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Aug 30, 2022 1:45:00 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/08/27/electric-vehicle-charge-time/Soon electric vehicles could charge faster than your iPhone If perfected, the method could charge an electric vehicle’s battery 90 percent within ten minutes, solving an issue skeptics have long had about electric vehicles. In a report released this week, government researchers said they have found a way to charge electric car batteries up to 90 percent in just 10 minutes. The method is likely five years away from making its way into the market, scientists said, but would mark a fundamental shift. At what cost to the consumer?
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 30, 2022 1:53:54 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/08/27/electric-vehicle-charge-time/Soon electric vehicles could charge faster than your iPhone If perfected, the method could charge an electric vehicle’s battery 90 percent within ten minutes, solving an issue skeptics have long had about electric vehicles. In a report released this week, government researchers said they have found a way to charge electric car batteries up to 90 percent in just 10 minutes. The method is likely five years away from making its way into the market, scientists said, but would mark a fundamental shift. At what cost to the consumer? The report doesn't mention cost, the technology is still 5 years out from being available on the market. www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/960985To address these challenges, Dufek and his research team at Idaho National Laboratory now report the use of machine learning techniques that incorporate charging data to create unique charging protocols. By inputting information about the condition of many lithium-ion batteries during their charging and discharging cycles, the scientists trained the machine learning analysis to predict lifetimes and the ways that different designs would eventually fail. The team then fed that data back into the analysis to identify and optimize new protocols that they then tested on real batteries.The researchers plan to use their model to develop even better methods and to help design new lithium-ion batteries that are optimized to undergo fast charging. Dufek says that the ultimate goal is for electric vehicles to be able to “tell” charging stations how to power up their specific batteries quickly and safely.
The researchers acknowledge support and funding from the U.S. Department of Energy’s Vehicle Technologies Office.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,306
Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Aug 30, 2022 3:31:59 GMT
None of that changes the environmental impact of raising animals for human consumption. It’s environmentally expensive to do so. It takes many more resources to produce meat than it does to produce the equivalent nutrition in plant foods. One of the easiest ways is simply to eat less meat. You don’t have to become vegetarian, but you can treat meat more as a side dish than the main component of dinner or simply incorporate a few meals a week that don’t include meat. It’s something we are working on at our house. If you’re not going to eat beef ever again, are you going to give up butter, cheese, yogurt, milk as well? Are you going to eat plant-based meats and milk and cheese and butter? That’s great, but I prefer to eat whole foods instead of hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat. That’s great for you but that will never happen for me. And too bad baby formula will be nothing but chemicals and additives. I AM a whole food plant based eater and i don’t eat “ hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat”. None of my friends do either. Yes, there are products like this, but i eat plant based meats, milk, cheese and yogurt made with 100% plants that are all delicious and so could you. You don't have to eat those items bolded above unless you want to. I predict that one day in the future the cost of meat and animal by-products will make it prohibitive to continue eating the standard American diet we eat today. Meat will be a treat, not consumed for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
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Post by hennybutton on Aug 30, 2022 3:51:45 GMT
None of this addresses the real issue. The best solution isn't to only allow electric vehicles to be sold, it's to re-vamp our communities and society to become less car-dependent. The state of public transportation in the US is deplorable. You literally cannot get anywhere without a car. Additionally, zoning laws prevent mixed land use. Huge areas are zoned for single family housing, but there isn't any zoning for shops or offices near those homes. Need a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread? You have to use your car. In my suburb, it's not even safe to walk or bike anywhere. All of our homes are in housing tracts with only one or two entrances per 1/2 mile block. All the traffic is funneled onto roads where the speed limit is 45 MPH, but everyone goes 50+. You have to take one of these roads to get anywhere. And, you know what? It's not only bad for the environment, it's bad for us. If you've ever been to Europe, you'll see that people walk or take public transportation everywhere, even in smaller cities. You don't see chain gyms everywhere because they get plenty of exercise walking in their day-to-day lives. They can buy fresh food daily because there are shops on every street. Instead of halting the sale of gasoline operated vehicles on some magical day, regardless of whether or not the pollution aspects of batteries has been addressed or whether the infrastructure can handle it, or whether there will be a way for people living in apartments and condominiums to charge their cars; we need to address the real issue of the car dependence that's forced on each and every one of us because of the way our cities and suburbs are planned. For a more in-depth look into these issues, check out the Strong Towns series on the Not Just Bikes YouTube channel. It's a real eye-opener.
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Post by Clair on Aug 30, 2022 5:40:16 GMT
I’m all for it - but there are definitely issues that will need to be addressed - as have already been mentioned.
As far as technology goes, thirteen years is a long time. Look at how much our world has changed since Covid - we now have large numbers if employees working remotely or hybrid. Three years ago this would have been unheard of. The first Tesla came out in 2009. I see charging stations all over. Our world is changing rapidly.
California already has code that landlords must allow/ approve ev chargers installation in many cases -but there are exceptions. I’m a landlord an am already making sure my properties can accommodate ev chargers.
Gas cars aren’t going away. It’s just a means to significantly lower the number of gas cars on the road and increase increase evs.
I believe we will see large numbers of charging stations popping up. Not all regular charging needs to happen at home. Many people charge at work. Some employers have been providing charging stations for years - you get a text when your car is charged and you move it so someone else can charge.
Californians are absolutely dependent on cars. There are probably 30-50+ places to buy groceries (grocery stores/Trader Joe’s/target/Costco/Walmart/etc) within a 5 minute drive from my house but it’s not walkable unless you like walking in traffic. I just can’t see how some areas can switch to mixed zone usage. There just space.
If the issues are addressed and resolved this can be a good thing.
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Post by gar on Aug 30, 2022 7:56:55 GMT
None of that changes the environmental impact of raising animals for human consumption. It’s environmentally expensive to do so. It takes many more resources to produce meat than it does to produce the equivalent nutrition in plant foods. One of the easiest ways is simply to eat less meat. You don’t have to become vegetarian, but you can treat meat more as a side dish than the main component of dinner or simply incorporate a few meals a week that don’t include meat. It’s something we are working on at our house. If you’re not going to eat beef ever again, are you going to give up butter, cheese, yogurt, milk as well? Are you going to eat plant-based meats and milk and cheese and butter? That’s great, but I prefer to eat whole foods instead of hydrogenated seed oils, chemically processed food with additives and countless chemical ingredients in plant-based fake meat. That’s great for you but that will never happen for me. And too bad baby formula will be nothing but chemicals and additives. Such black and white thinking! We need a little grey here. Don't you want a solution? It's not going to necessarily be comfortable sometimes but all of us have to make changes - not just USA - all of us should be working towards the same goal. There are new alternatives to pretty much everything and that will only increase as the food industry, farming etc etc worldwide evolve and develop. It's just not a case of if you can't eat beef every day you'll have to eat chemicals - that's just ridiculously uninformed or deliberately disingenuous.
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 30, 2022 22:10:21 GMT
Interesting opinion on the car ban. The opinion has several valid points about why the ban might not be the best choice to transition away from fossil fuels, some of which have already been pointed out in this thread. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/30/californias-gas-car-ban-is-clunky-theres-better-way/Furthermore, a broad ban could result in higher costs and perverse incentives for consumers. The average price of electric vehicles is $66,000. The $7,500 electric vehicle tax credits in the Inflation Reduction Act could help offset expenses, but these come with complicated requirements. Though manufacturers are working on more affordable options, they have been slow to build models for non-luxury segments of the market. And since the ban applies only to new cars, it could encourage people to keep older, gas-guzzling models for longer or purchase gas-fueled vehicles from out of state.
Then there are hurdles related to infrastructure. California has 80,000 charging stations, the most in the country, but is falling behind its target of 250,000 by 2025. The bipartisan infrastructure bill allocated $7.5 billion for states to build up this infrastructure, and Californian regulators hope the promise of a guaranteed market will incentivize private actors to do more. But there is a lot to be done, particularly in rural areas. There are also concerns over supply chain stability for materials such as the lithium used in batteries.
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 30, 2022 22:46:41 GMT
There is nothing interesting about that Washington Post Editorial it’s more whining about needed change. Especially since this is their solution…
From the “Editorial”
”A more efficient approach would be to enact a higher and increasing tax on vehicles’ fossil fuels. This would affect all cars in the state, not just new ones, while allowing people a measure of flexibility based on individual needs. California already has the second-highest gas tax in the nation. Still, an ambitious, steadily rising price on fuels would encourage the transition to electric vehicles and greener public transportation systems without the downsides of a regulatory ban.”
This nonsense and the post above about rearranging our communities is not going to solve the problem we are facing.
Fossil fuel has got to go. It will not happen overnight but the longer we whine and make up excuses before we come to the conclusion it must go and get serious about it more and more damage is going to be done to planet and the harder it will be to repair it and that is if we even can.
Just glanced at an article about how Tesla along with China is working on a way to incorporate the battery into the body of the car instead of how it’s currently situated in the car. If I remember correctly it’s believed if it can be done the battery will be larger and make the car lighter with a possible range of 600 miles per charge. Who knows if they can make it work and that it will be feasible but it shows the EV manufacturers continue to work to make the product better.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,514
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Sept 1, 2022 3:01:08 GMT
Cal ISO flex alert statement. Oh yeah, this is only day 1 of a 10 day heatwave.
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Post by katlady on Sept 1, 2022 3:06:21 GMT
SDGE sent us an email that if we cut back on electricity usage between 4PM-9PM tomorrow, we’ll get some kind of bill credit. No specifics, but I guess they benchmark it against your history somehow.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 1, 2022 15:11:31 GMT
So…if you’re a 9-5 worker, charge your EV during the work hours when solar power is plentiful if you can or after 9 p.m. at home?
If you expect a higher demand beginning in 2026, would you have to buy more natural gas (a fossil fuel) for your grid than what you're buying now? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to beef up the grid first? Why not build the infrastructure first for more solar and wind, build more storage capacity for the solar energy, update the distribution and feeder lines, upgrade transformers, etc before an EV mandate.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 1, 2022 23:48:17 GMT
Notice how he is deliberately twisting the information.
And since he lives in CA he should know that the State of CA is working on the power grid. It’s moving it to clean renewable energy. Sonoma County has used clean renewable energy for I want to say at least 5 years. Periodically the entire grid for the state is run on clean renewable energy. Only for a couple of minutes but it’s a start.
As to those who keep saying what about etc a few fun facts.
The first Model T Ford was produced in 1908 and had a top speed of 42 mph. In 2020 the fastest vehicle hit a speed of 477 miles per hour. Look how far cars have come since the Model T.
In 1903 the Wright Brothers had their first flight in their Wright Flyer. Twice last week SpaceX sent rockets into space and safely landed the first stage of the rockets on their drone ships. They just got another contract to deliver supplies and personal to the space station. Oh yes, we have a space station, in space no less. We have sent men to the moon. We have little robots scurrying around Mars collecting data.
In their wildest imagination do think the Wright Bros could even begin to imagine how far we have come since their wild flight across that field? Or Henry Ford with automobiles?
Yes there are problems that need to be worked out and there are people working on them. That’s the thing with technology and innovation once they solve one problem they are on to the next one.
The phasing in the sale of only new EVs is not set in stone. And if the problems can’t be solved to make feasible it can be delayed until they are.
But the bottom line is the State of California is doing something and that is way better then the states that continue to call climate change a hoax.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 2, 2022 1:33:21 GMT
Good.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 2, 2022 15:03:52 GMT
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 2, 2022 17:38:36 GMT
Not just addressed, but effectively mitigated.
The goal is to rely on electricity by getting rid of gas appliances, gas heaters, gas-everything, and moving toward widespread EV adoption. I’m not arguing the merits of moving away from fossil fuels because it’s a laudable goal, but the realities of electricity generation belie the virtue.
For CA, 50% is from natural gas, the majority of which is purchased out-of-state. So, if someone thinks the current energy is “green,” the reality is it isn’t because although natural gas is cleaner than coal, it’s still a fossil fuel. CA is not producing most of the gas it needs, but instead paying other states that produce it. So, the environmental impact of gas production may not be in their “backyard,” but it’s in someone else’s backyard.
When those EVs are being charged, they’re partially being powered with “brown energy.” And EVs are not “green” to begin with. When lithium is mined and processed, it requires fossil fuels that emit tons of CO2. And the high human and societal costs in the mining of cobalt, nickel, manganese, etc? Again, this human cost in health and lives may not be in CA’s or the USA’s backyard, but it is in someone else’s backyard, mostly in countries with vulnerable populations. This elitist NIMBY attitude is repellant to me.
I agree that EVs should be part of the solution to climate change. But just like any solution, there is a trade-off. Just as EV production has its share of environmental damage and human costs, so does the production of gas. So does practically everything we manufacture in the name of industry and progress. Everyone's experience, philosophy and level of acceptable trade-off will vary. For me, personally, until such a time that the health and human cost to vulnerable populations is alleviated, ideally eliminated, by batteries that don't require the massive mining of precious materials, and can be realistically and safely recycled, I'm not 100% sold. I am disturbed by the exportation of the damage to other countries where the poor and marginalized communities are usually the ones who suffer the consequences. That’s a trade-off I’m not willing to accept.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,514
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Sept 5, 2022 18:54:52 GMT
Hey OP, still think California will be anywhere close to being ready in 12 years? Did you ever tell us what kind of car you drive? Didn’t think so.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 5, 2022 21:00:26 GMT
It’s going to be 107 it’s now 111 😡here with a forecast of being higher tomorrow. I’ve already received a notice from the city I live in that I need to be prepared for rolling blackouts. There is another heatwave predicted to hit CA in two weeks.
The state has moved additional firefighters and equipment to my county, and two countries connected to mine because of the very real possibility this heat along with dry conditions makes it prime conditions for wildfires to start so they want personal and equipment in place just in case. While I’m glad they are being proactive, that is not something I want to hear in a county that wildfires have already destroyed thousands of homes in the last couple of years.
This is all the result of climate change. And it’s only going to get worse. Not just here in Sonoma County but the entire country and the entire world.
Life would be so simple if we could just wave a magic wand and in a blink of an eye whatever changes that are needed are made. No fuss, no muss.
But it’s not. It’s a bumpy road with starts and stops until the goals are met.
What is not helpful during this time are the whiners.
CA is working on the electrical grid and moving it to clean renewable energy. Natural gas is being phased out. Since there is no magic wand it will take time. Remember CA is the most populous state in the United States. But they are at least addressing the problems of climate change.
The state has set goals. Goals for both the state to meet as well the population of the state. They are not set in concrete meaning if the state can’t fulfill its part they can’t expect the population to fulfill their part.
So instead of folks saying good let’s hope these goals can be met because they benefit us all and those who come behind us, we have a bunch of whiners who offer nothing but whining.
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Post by bc2ca on Sept 5, 2022 21:44:34 GMT
Random thoughts on this topic: The infrastructure is being addressed now, at least in California. DS & friend took an 800 mile round trip to Yosemite last week and ran into zero recharging issues. DH is building residential high rises that are anticipating/including the need for EV parking. The current cost of EVs reflects the luxury models that dominate the market now. Just like we all don't own gas fueled BMW, Audis and other premium vehicles, the car manufactures are already competing for the lower end of the new EV market. As more EV Chevy Bolts, Nissan Leafs, Mini Coopers, etc., hit the road the average cost of EVs will plummet. Most EVs will need a Level 1 (basic outlet) or Level 2 (like your dryer, needs a 240 volt/40 amp circuit) charging station. The difference is the time it takes to charge your vehicle. For those worried about power outages, it is not going to much different than your local gas station shut because of the same power outage shutting down your in garage fuel source. When the power comes back, both will work. EVs aren't going to be for everyone, but it is not a bad choice for most people. We currently have four vehicles (a hybrid car, 2 low mileage gas only gas and a small gas only truck) and are looking at replacing them with at least hybrid cars and leaning heavily to an EV truck. I'm hoping that by 2035 DH are down to one EV. I hope more investment goes to rapid transit and high speed rail in this state.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 5, 2022 21:52:09 GMT
No one is disputing the effects of climate change or the importance of reducing our dependence on fossil fuels. The argument is what is the best solution, what is practical, cost -effective, will have the most impact with the least amount of environmental damage? Electric vehicles are part of the solution, but maybe there's a better way than the CA ban on gas powered cars. Maybe see what happens with the rebates. Or replace all state and local vehicles with EVs. Or improve public transportation. Smaller cities are using Uber and Lyft instead of city buses. There are a lot of advantages to that plan, it's more convenient for residents, it's more efficient than buses with just a few people on them etc. Maybe help Uber, Lyft and taxi drivers purchase EVs. Or maybe it would be better to focus on other solutions like renewable energy, changing the way we eat, reducing the amount of meat that we consume or other solutions. No one is suggesting that we ignore the problems, the criticism is of CA's specific plan to ban gas powered vehicles before lots of practical concerns have been addressed and mitigated (environmental impacts of mining for lithium, EV battery life, how to dispose of dead batteries, impact of cold temperatures, how to charge vehicles outside of garages, lack of charging stations in rural areas, time required to charge batteries, the infrastructure & stability of the power grid etc)
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Post by elaine on Sept 5, 2022 22:00:54 GMT
It’s going to be 107 here today with a forecast of being higher tomorrow. I’ve already received a notice from the city I live in that I need to be prepared for rolling blackouts. There is another heatwave predicted to hit CA in two weeks. The state has moved additional firefighters and equipment to my county, and two countries connected to mine because of the very real possibility this heat along with dry conditions makes it prime conditions for wildfires to start so they want personal and equipment in place just in case. While I’m glad they are being proactive, that is not something I want to hear in a county that wildfires have already destroyed thousands of homes in the last couple of years. This is all the result of climate change. And it’s only going to get worse. Not just here in Sonoma County but the entire country and the entire world. Life would be so simple if we could just wave a magic wand and in a blink of an eye whatever changes that are needed are made. No fuss, no muss. But it’s not. It’s a bumpy road with starts and stops until the goals are met. What is not helpful during this time are the whiners. CA is working on the electrical grid and moving it to clean renewable energy. Natural gas is being phased out. Since there is no magic wand it will take time. Remember CA is the most populous state in the United States. But they are at least addressing the problems of climate change. The state has set goals. Goals for both the state to meet as well the population of the state. They are not set in concrete meaning if the state can’t fulfill its part they can’t expect the population to fulfill their part. So instead of folks saying good let’s hope these goals can be met because they benefit us all and those who come behind us, we have a bunch of whiners who offer nothing but whining. What exact brands and models of electric cars do you and your spouse currently drive?
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