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Post by onelasttime on Sept 5, 2022 23:15:05 GMT
It’s 111 here and the electricity just went off. And no idea how long it will be off.
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Post by elaine on Sept 5, 2022 23:17:15 GMT
It’s 111 here and the electricity just went off. And no idea how long it will be off. Sucks for everyone who needs to charge their cars to go to work tomorrow am. Or, like yesterday, when I had to drive my mother to the ER, anyone who needs their cars for an emergency. |
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 6, 2022 0:15:02 GMT
It’s 111 here and the electricity just went off. And no idea how long it will be off. Sucks for everyone who needs to charge their cars to go to work tomorrow am. Or, like yesterday, if I had to drive my mother to the ER, anyone who needs their cars for an emergency. Well what you do is keep your cars charged just like you make sure you have gas in your car. Stop being petty. Climate change is real and a large contributor to it is fossil fuel. Ah the electricity is back. Apparently someone involved in an accident caused it to go out. |
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 6, 2022 0:17:11 GMT
For those worried about power outages, it is not going to much different than your local gas station shut because of the same power outage shutting down your in garage fuel source. When the power comes back, both will work.  That's all fine and dandy until power is out for an extended time. Not unheard of where I live in CA. And I can't drive my EV to work if I can't charge it which means I have to get a substitute teacher. Not ok. I can go over 550 miles on my tank of gas in my car. I cannot do that in an EV. My weekly commute is over 400 miles. |
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 6, 2022 0:18:14 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 6, 2022 0:40:29 GMT
No one is disputing the dangers or effects of climate change. No one is disputing the need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, the condescending tweets and lectures are a little annoying and tiresome. I know this is your thread and I could just stop reading it but maybe it would be more helpful if you started a new thread and put all of your climate change posts there.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Sept 6, 2022 0:47:57 GMT
I have watched a lot of you gang up to attack a pea when they ignore a question and yet you let the OP get away with it. She’s been asked at least 5 times what she drives and refuses to answer while she continues to lecture everyone from her lofty perch. Why?
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Post by elaine on Sept 6, 2022 0:49:55 GMT
Sucks for everyone who needs to charge their cars to go to work tomorrow am. Or, like yesterday, if I had to drive my mother to the ER, anyone who needs their cars for an emergency. Well what you do is keep your cars charged just like you make sure you have gas in your car. Stop being petty. Climate change is real and a large contributor to it is fossil fuel. Ah the electricity is back. Apparently someone involved in an accident caused it to go out. My mom is in the hospital. And I had to drive her there. Fuck you and your stupid petty concerns considering you don’t even drive an electric vehicle. So yeah, fuck you. And the gas powered car YOU drove in on. |
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 6, 2022 0:53:39 GMT
I have watched a lot of you gang up to attack a pea when they ignore a question and yet you let the OP get away with it. She’s been asked at least 5 times what she drives and refuses to answer while she continues to lecture everyone from her lofty perch. Why? What are you suggesting that we should do? She's been repeatedly asked the question by a number of peas, as recently as today and she continues to ignore it. And I just called her out for lecturing. What more would you like us to do? eta - I posted before reading Elaine's last comment. She's certainly not letting the OP get away with anything. |
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 6, 2022 0:54:51 GMT
I have watched a lot of you gang up to attack a pea when they ignore a question and yet you let the OP get away with it. She’s been asked at least 5 times what she drives and refuses to answer while she continues to lecture everyone from her lofty perch. Why? I think the OP drives a big ass truck that gets about 5 mpg and doesn't want to tell us so we don't jump her shit. Hey onelasttime gonna tell us what you drive or are you hiding behind your holier than thou shit? |
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Post by Clair on Sept 6, 2022 1:04:51 GMT
I’m surprised at the resistance to this. This is 12 years away - technology will change - the infrastructure will be upgraded.
You don’t need to be constantly charging your cars. Most people will do it overnight when demand is low. Also - most people don’t put gas in their cars daily - you won’t have to charge daily.
People like Seaexplore with long commutes will have different hurdles than people with short commutes.
I think there will be some growing pains but this will work out.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 6, 2022 1:24:59 GMT
I have watched a lot of you gang up to attack a pea when they ignore a question and yet you let the OP get away with it. She’s been asked at least 5 times what she drives and refuses to answer while she continues to lecture everyone from her lofty perch. Why? I don’t drive. Whether or not I drive has nothing to do with climate change and that is the topic of this thread. The State of California has slowly started the process of moving this state away from fossil fuel a known contributor to climate change. But the reaction has been like the state was demanding that people cut off their right arm or some ridiculous notion. And do it today, Never in my life have I seen so much whining about doing something that ultimately will benefit them and their children and their children’s children. And it’s not something they have to do tomorrow or next week or next year or five years from now. It’s a slow process. Probably slower then it should be. But it’s a start. And yes I can bitch about all the whining about the change from my lofty perch in Sonoma County because climate change affects us all. And you don’t have to drive a car to understand that. I have a feeling to successfully fight climate change all us humans are going to have to make changes in how we live our lives. And if all this whining is an indication of what will happens every time there is a change it’s going to be a lot harder then it should to try and save this planet. Something that must be done because there sure aren’t a lot of options if humans fail. And you don’t need to drive a car to understand that either. |
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 6, 2022 1:41:10 GMT
I have watched a lot of you gang up to attack a pea when they ignore a question and yet you let the OP get away with it. She’s been asked at least 5 times what she drives and refuses to answer while she continues to lecture everyone from her lofty perch. Why? I don’t drive. Whether or not I drive has nothing to do with climate change and that is the topic of this thread. BUT it does have to do with this thread. You are telling us that EV's are the way of the future and all of that but you have ZERO concept of why most of us have cars since you don't drive. We have to go places. Where I live, there is NO mass transit. NOTHING is walking distance. There are no Uber's or Lyft's. How do YOU get places? Do you only walk? Do you use Lyft or Uber (those people are using gasoline)? Do you take mass transit (those sources also use gas for the most part)? Yes, it's TOTALLY relevant to this post. Do you walk the walk or just talk the talk? I think that's what we are all wondering. |
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Post by elaine on Sept 6, 2022 1:57:52 GMT
I have watched a lot of you gang up to attack a pea when they ignore a question and yet you let the OP get away with it. She’s been asked at least 5 times what she drives and refuses to answer while she continues to lecture everyone from her lofty perch. Why? The State of California has slowly started the process of moving this state away from fossil fuel a known contributor to climate change. But the reaction has been like the state was demanding that people cut off their right arm or some ridiculous notion. And do it today, Never in my life have I seen so much whining about doing something that ultimately will benefit them and their children and their children’s children. And it’s not something they have to do tomorrow or next week or next year or five years from now. It’s a slow process. Probably slower then it should be. But it’s a start. And yes I can bitch about all the whining about the change from my lofty perch in Sonoma County because climate change affects us all. And you don’t have to drive a car to understand that. I have a feeling to successfully fight climate change all us humans are going to have to make changes in how we live our lives. And if all this whining is an indication of what will happens every time there is a change it’s going to be a lot harder then it should to try and save this planet. Something that must be done because there sure aren’t a lot of options if humans fail. And you don’t need to drive a car to understand that either. Fuck you. How would have gotten my mother to the hospital yesterday? Would you have demanded an electric ambulance? Your being a heartless bitch has surpassed Lauren-levels at this point. Yay for you! You must be really proud of this moment. |
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 6, 2022 5:11:03 GMT
I don’t drive. Whether or not I drive has nothing to do with climate change and that is the topic of this thread. BUT it does have to do with this thread. You are telling us that EV's are the way of the future and all of that but you have ZERO concept of why most of us have cars since you don't drive. We have to go places. Where I live, there is NO mass transit. NOTHING is walking distance. There are no Uber's or Lyft's. How do YOU get places? Do you only walk? Do you use Lyft or Uber (those people are using gasoline)? Do you take mass transit (those sources also use gas for the most part)? Yes, it's TOTALLY relevant to this post. Do you walk the walk or just talk the talk? I think that's what we are all wondering. I was not aware the State of California was taking away your car. I managed to get myself from my lofty perch in Sonoma County to & from San Francisco for 40 years to work. So I kind of did have places to be that were not within walking distance. It’s rather naive of you to think that people who don’t drive don’t “have to go places”. If anything getting from point A to point B even with mass transit can be a bigger challenge for those who do not drive then those who have a car. The idea that those who do not drive “has ZERO concept of why most people have cars” is kind of dumb to be honest. But that’s not the point. I was watching an episode of AFV Animal Edition and the owners of this dog had a new set of dog bowels on a stand. The poor dog didn’t know what to think about them. The narrator said “ change is hard”. Change is the point and change is hard and change is what CA, The United States and the rest of world must do because we have reached that point where change is necessary when it comes to saving the planet from the affects of greenhouse gases. Look around, there are these extremely hot days, the wildfires, the multi-year droughts, the flooding. Not just on the West Coast or East Coast but around the world. And people are dying from what is happening. There are two wildfires in the northern part of CA right now. Four people died in one fire, they found their bodies in cars that I guess couldn’t outrun the fire. Two others died in another fire. They found their bodies in their burned out home. They were elderly women so I guess they had no way to even trying to outrun the fire so they stayed in their home. Then there were those floods that ripped through Kentucky were people died including 4 children that were swept away from their parents. And there are stories like this all around the world. Record drought, record flooding, record wildfires, record heat. Even if people don’t die they are still impacted by what is happening. And sadly more then a few that are impacted by all this can least afford it. And the one thing the experts agree is the cause of most of this is climate change. And a big contributor to climate change are the greenhouse gases which include the crap that comes from using fossil fuels. Technology has given the world the ability to move away from fossil fuel. It’s not something that is going to happen overnight and no one, including me, believe or expects that it will. It will take years maybe decades to happen but the world has no choice because it needs to happen. It’s that simple. So CA is phasing in the change that by 2035 the only new cars one can buy in the state are EVs or other cars that don’t run on fossil fuel. The state is not banning fossil fuel cars just the sale of new ones in the state. Now from my lofty perch in Sonoma County I see not only what’s happening in my state, but in the rest of the country and the world and think what CA is doing is a good idea because it needs to be done. Since I like to share information and proud that my state is trying to do something to combat climate change I bring it here to share. What happened? Very few if any agreed it was a good idea. The majority responses were whining about the change. A change that is being phased in over a number of years. And they still whined about it. Talk about a downer. So I came to two possible reasons for the whining. One, they don’t believe in climate change and don’t want to be “forced” into making changes for what they feel is a hoax. Two, they do believe climate change is real but unless it impacts them directly they don’t want to make any changes they don’t like. Changes by the way that will take years to implement. I feel I have to keep repeating the changes will take years to implement because some are acting like they will happen the day after tomorrow. One last item before I end my Monday night rant on climate change. Its I’m not sure people understand the seriousness of potentially not enough water in the western states. It kind of has big ramifications not just for the states affected but for the rest of the country as well. Another result of climate change. |
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 6, 2022 5:21:47 GMT
It's not just whining. People have brought up legitimate, practical, ethical and environmental concerns that need to be addressed before gas powered cars are banned. But, you just dismiss those as whining. There is a third possibility for a reason why people disagree with the California ban. People believe in climate change, they're willing to make changes but they have genuine, practical concerns that need to be addressed and mitigated. I'll post them again so you can ignore and dismiss them again.
environmental impacts, ethical and societal concerns of mining for lithium and other battery components in the US and developing countries, EV battery life, how to safely dispose of dead batteries, the impact of cold temperatures, how to charge vehicles outside of garages, lack of charging stations in rural areas, time required to charge batteries, the infrastructure & stability of the power grid, 50% of California's electricity is from natural gas etc
Yes, the technology will probably evolve to improve some of these problems. And the ban doesn't get phased in until 2026, I think. However, there's a reasonable argument to be made that California is putting the cart before the horse and maybe some of these issues should be addressed first.
eta - It's a little unfair or disingenuous to accuse people of disagreeing with the policy because they aren't impacted by climate change or don't want to make changes when you personally will benefit from the ban but won't have the costs of purchasing an EV and dealing with the expense, inconvenience or other practical concerns of owning an EV
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,514
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Post by pinklady on Sept 6, 2022 14:29:44 GMT
Oh that's rich! Of course you are rah rah-ing for something that doesn't effect you. You have NO fucking idea how ending the sale of gas powered cars is going to impact people and you clearly do not give a shit! You know who else does that, republicans! PS, nobody is saying this isn't a good goal. We are all saying the state is not ready for it and they needed to start working on infrastructure yesterday to meet the goal and they haven't. For fucks sake you are a colossal asshole! Delete your account! |
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Post by bc2ca on Sept 6, 2022 14:57:12 GMT
That's all fine and dandy until power is out for an extended time. Not unheard of where I live in CA. And I can't drive my EV to work if I can't charge it which means I have to get a substitute teacher. Not ok. I can go over 550 miles on my tank of gas in my car. I cannot do that in an EV. My weekly commute is over 400 miles. DH's weekly commute ranges from 400-1000 miles as he roams between San Diego and LA. It isn't the distance, but the ability to recharge when needed that is important. For most people, an EV does not need to be charged every night. There is plenty of power to handle a 400 mile weekly commute with charging every few days. Recharging every night might make you feel more comfortable but it is not necessary. Going by my experience, in the 16 years we've lived here we have had two outages that lasted more than a couple hours and none that were more than a day. While living in Seattle we had an ice storm that left us without power for 5 days. As I said in the post you quoted, EVs aren't going to be for everyone, but it is not a bad choice for most people. |
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Post by katlady on Sept 6, 2022 15:24:19 GMT
It is all about being prepared for an outage. When we had that huge power outage about 10 years ago, the county was without power for over 6 hours, 12 hours for some areas. It happened just before rush hour and you know what happened … cars got stranded because they ran out of gas!! Some of my coworkers were going to fill up before they went home. Well, without electricity the gas pumps do not work! No one could get gas. One friend ran out of gas, had someone push her car to the side of the road, found a way home, and her car was later towed! It was a mess. So, whether it is an ICE or EV car, you just can’t wait until your gauge is close to “E”. That event made me make sure I always have enough gas to get back home, when possible. If we ever get an EV, it’ll be the same, not waiting until it gets close to “E”.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 6, 2022 16:01:54 GMT
It IS a classic example of putting the cart before the horse. It takes years and a massive investment to upgrade a grid. And by “massive,” I mean billions. Just as an example, in IL, we spent over $2 billion for a partial grid modernization. By “we,” I mean IL taxpayers and electricity consumers. Additionally, four Midwest states, including mine, will very soon embark on additional grid upgrades to accommodate more renewable energy at a cost of $10.5 billion just for the first tranche in a project that will take many years. If there’s a current need for Flex Alerts and rolling blackouts in order to not bring the entire grid network down during heat waves, what will happen when you double or triple or quadruple the electrical demand? If you can't even handle a heat wave, how will you handle millions more EVs? As it is right now, your own governor ordered back-up generators which are powered by natural gas, to be up and running and suspended air quality limits so as to prevent widespread blackouts. There’s a fundamental truth behind Newsom’s extending the lives of some gas-powered plants and the Diablo Canyon nuclear plant: CA cannot be sufficiently powered with just renewables because their energy output is intermittent and unreliable. Unless you aggressively and rapidly increase your solar and wind capacity AND storage (because of the fluctuation), AND hang on to the nuclear power from the one plant remaining (despite your and others’ aversion to nuclear power which, btw, does not emit greenhouse gases), where will you get the energy source from to support the added demand when you begin phasing out ICE vehicles in 2026? Hydroelectric power is becoming less of a resource because of your droughts. My guess is you’ll still be buying natural gas in the foreseeable future. This is why I said it would make more sense to upgrade and harden your grid network, transmission lines and transformers first before you begin mandating EV adoption. And, onelasttime , you don’t even drive... You don’t even understand what’s involved in powering a vehicle... You don’t even acknowledge the high price vulnerable populations pay to supply the minerals that make up the lithium-ion batteries (just two of which are the abusive exploitation of black children and the depletion and poisoning of water sources poor communities depend on; and yes, regardless of how much you ignore it, there is a very dark side to EV production)... You don’t even acknowledge the equity issues that arise for populations that cannot afford these vehicles… You don’t even fully know how your grid is powered... You summarily dismissed someone’s concern about emergencies due to her driving her mother to hospital as “petty”... You dismiss everyone else’s concerns and opinions as “whining”...all so you can lecture and scold us because apparently, at least in your mind, you’re the only one who cares about climate change and our children and grandchildren. Your indifference and arrogance amidst your ignorance are stupefying. Pro tip: The next time you get the urge to sit on your throne and heap scorn on our concerns, dedicate some time beforehand to learning about the realities, including the cons, of the technology and the energy that will support it so you can at least claim a modicum of credibility. |
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 6, 2022 20:43:23 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Sept 6, 2022 21:11:54 GMT
You’d think the state of California would consider putting the homeless population into homes before putting everyone in electric cars considering that 1/5th of the homeless population in the entire country is in that state. One would think that would be priority #1. The raw sewage created by the homeless cannot be good for the environment.
Electric vehicles are not a one size fits all.
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Post by chaosisapony on Sept 6, 2022 21:29:36 GMT
Does anyone else wonder how many new cars are just going to be purchased in Reno and driven across the state line? Unless they are going to ban the registering of new gas powered vehicles too I foresee a lot of cars still coming in from out of state. I know people that already drive to Oregon or Nevada to purchase their vehicles because they cost less. They don't have the special California emissions package so the CA DMV charges a crap ton of fees but they can get them registered.
It's something I may have to do when the time comes. I'm rural with a long commute, I experience numerous emergency blackouts every year some lasting for 4 or 5 days at a time, and I can in no way afford the prices of an average EV.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 7, 2022 1:53:58 GMT
Does anyone else wonder how many new cars are just going to be purchased in Reno and driven across the state line? Unless they are going to ban the registering of new gas powered vehicles too I foresee a lot of cars still coming in from out of state. I know people that already drive to Oregon or Nevada to purchase their vehicles because they cost less. They don't have the special California emissions package so the CA DMV charges a crap ton of fees but they can get them registered. It's something I may have to do when the time comes. I'm rural with a long commute, I experience numerous emergency blackouts every year some lasting for 4 or 5 days at a time, and I can in no way afford the prices of an average EV. I’m sure they’ll put a huge tax on cars bought outside of CA and brought in to try and deter it. Then they’ll raise gas prices sky high. But it’s ok, because state owned vehicles have a state credit card to fill and that doesn’t matter. 🤬 |
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Post by katlady on Sept 7, 2022 2:06:55 GMT
You’d think the state of California would consider putting the homeless population into homes before putting everyone in electric cars considering that 1/5th of the homeless population in the entire country is in that state. One would think that would be priority #1. The raw sewage created by the homeless cannot be good for the environment. Electric vehicles are not a one size fits all. What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can provide housing and shelter, but you can't make them use it. Lot of homeless don't want to use shelters that come with strings attached. They either have to leave all their stuff behind, give up their pets, etc. Someone locally was trying to help one guy. He had 10 shopping carts of stuff. They found a place for him, but he did not want to give up his stuff. Just like EVs, one size/type of shelter does not fit all. |
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 7, 2022 2:35:03 GMT
You’d think the state of California would consider putting the homeless population into homes before putting everyone in electric cars considering that 1/5th of the homeless population in the entire country is in that state. One would think that would be priority #1. The raw sewage created by the homeless cannot be good for the environment. Electric vehicles are not a one size fits all. I think you've been listening too much to Trump, who is generally ignorant on environmental issues and says things without any evidence. While it's true sewage from homeless camps is a problem, there's no evidence that homeless camps have a negative impact on water quality. thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/463439-water-experts-tell-trump-no-the-homeless-arent-hurting-california/ |
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,750
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Post by pantsonfire on Sept 7, 2022 2:45:17 GMT
Oh that's rich! Of course you are rah rah-ing for something that doesn't effect you. You have NO fucking idea how ending the sale of gas powered cars is going to impact people and you clearly do not give a shit! You know who else does that, republicans! PS, nobody is saying this isn't a good goal. We are all saying the state is not ready for it and they needed to start working on infrastructure yesterday to meet the goal and they haven't. Bolded this for the people in the back. Look at what is happening in the state of CA RIGHT NOW. We all have all but 1 light off. Nothing running but the AC and internet/phone line. You look around and see dark. Why? Because our state can NOT power homes and businesses in this heat. How in the fudge do they expect us to charge a car? I have really concerns about moving to electric vehicles. As a mom to 2 medically disabled and medically complex teens, I need to be able to get to where ever at the drop of a hat. That includes 2 Children's Hospitals 1.5 hours and about 2.25 hours away. And I need to get there with no stops. I need to be able to exit for wildfires and earthquakes. What are people going to do who have no power due to emergencies and need to get out and their car is dead? I have no issue with who ever wants one to get one. You do you but I want my gas powered vehicle. |
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,750
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Post by pantsonfire on Sept 7, 2022 2:48:23 GMT
Dd took Biology: ecology and the environment last semester. Her professor has worked for the government and taught at UCLA. He has a long sheet of projects and knows his stuff. He even said there are more issues with electric vehicles than gas powered. He said we will do more damage with electric UNLESS they can get the needed items in a safer manner, and parts can be recycled. He is right. People aren't looking at the real long term cost to our environment. Just because it doesn't run on fuel doesn't make it better. |
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 12:16:59 GMT
You’d think the state of California would consider putting the homeless population into homes before putting everyone in electric cars considering that 1/5th of the homeless population in the entire country is in that state. One would think that would be priority #1. The raw sewage created by the homeless cannot be good for the environment. Electric vehicles are not a one size fits all. What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can provide housing and shelter, but you can't make them use it. Lot of homeless don't want to use shelters that come with strings attached. They either have to leave all their stuff behind, give up their pets, etc. Someone locally was trying to help one guy. He had 10 shopping carts of stuff. They found a place for him, but he did not want to give up his stuff. Just like EVs, one size/type of shelter does not fit all. So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! |
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Post by gar on Sept 7, 2022 12:29:56 GMT
What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can provide housing and shelter, but you can't make them use it. Lot of homeless don't want to use shelters that come with strings attached. They either have to leave all their stuff behind, give up their pets, etc. Someone locally was trying to help one guy. He had 10 shopping carts of stuff. They found a place for him, but he did not want to give up his stuff. Just like EVs, one size/type of shelter does not fit all. So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! It is possible for those in power to work on more than one thing at once if they’re so inclined. |
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