|
Post by onelasttime on Aug 28, 2022 20:37:52 GMT
For sometime CA has said it will ban the sale of NEW gas powered vehicles in CA in 2035. When it was first announced a couple of years I started a thread. And I have to say there were some interesting responses.
Anyway the CA has made it official. As of 2035 one will no longer be able to buy a NEW gas powered car in the state. Worth noting it’s not banning gas powered cars but the sale of NEW ones. Keep in mind it’s still 12 years away before this ban takes affect.
Today in The Washington Post a Henry Olsen wrote an opinion piece saying it was misguided. So I read it. 😀
”Opinion California’s plan to ban new gas-powered cars is misguided”
From the article….
“The proposal is a classic exercise of hubris. The thinking goes like this: The state wants to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and many of those come from cars and trucks. Therefore, if it bans the sale of new cars that emit those gasses, the people will follow along without much complaint. Cars become electric, greenhouse gas emissions go down and the problem is solved.
The problem comes from that little variable the state’s bureaucrats overlook: the people. The vast majority of people buy cars and trucks to get from one place to another, not to serve some lofty climate goal. They also balance the costs of transportation against other goods, like housing and food. If transportation costs rise, they look for ways to cut them to maintain consumption elsewhere. That’s basic economics.”
The idea that the fight against climate change won’t involve people is rather naive. The reality is when We the People become serious about fighting climate change it will change how we live our lives.
More from the article…
“People buy gas-powered cars today in large part because they are cheaper than electric ones. Prices for electric vehicles are substantially higher than for equivalent gas-powered models. The average EV is about $10,000 more expensive upfront, a massive amount for the average household and an insuperable one for low-income households. Even the new, more restrictive $7,500 per vehicle tax credit doesn’t fully eliminate the upfront price disadvantage that discourages EV purchase. Fuel and maintenance costs are usually lower for electric vehicles than for gas-powered cars, but it still takes years for owners to recoup the heavy upfront price premium.
Then there’s the battery life and depletion problem. Batteries of all types eventually lose their ability to store electricity, and vehicle batteries are no exception. The longer you own an EV, the more the battery will deplete and require frequent recharging. This happens more quickly in places with extreme heat or cold — which is to say, most places in the United States outside of California. That means an owner will either have to recharge their car more frequently, raising operating costs, or even replace their battery at substantial costs. Manufacturers typically warranty their battery for 10 years or 100,000 miles, but that’s little comfort for someone who expects to drive their vehicle beyond those points.”
As noted above 2035 is 12 years away. Already car manufacturers are moving toward EV cars. I saw a piece about how this was the last year for beloved muscle car, can’t remember which one, anyone after this year there will only be EV models. The more EV cars out there the price should come down. Also CA is not banning all gas powered vehicles in 2035, just the sale of NEW gas powered vehicles.
As far as battery life goes, I guess he doesn’t understand how technology works. I mean seriously look how far we have come from the era of Model T Fords and the Wright Brothers first flight. I watched a SpaceX rocket blast off last night. Do you think the Wright Brothers could have ever imagine something like that in their first flight?
More from the article…
“This gap between hope and reality is endemic in climate change policy. People have minds of their own and balance climate goals against a host of other considerations. If achieving climate aspirations costs too much, most people will abandon them in favor of other, more personally important goals. That is a reality that can only be overcome by force, much as government can compel behavior during wartime by rationing and price controls. The fact that there’s no political will to impose those measures on recalcitrant Americans means that climate policies like California’s will inevitably fail to reach their goals.
California’s new electric car mandate is inspired by the best of intentions. But its ignorance of human nature and economics means it’s likely to be just another case of California dreamin’.”
Last week the states of Nevada and Arizona were told they would be getting less water from the Colorado River. Lake Mead and Powell Lake are at dangerous lows. The Great Salt Lake is getting smaller. Apparently enough that they had to remove all boats from the lake. In CA the Central Valley has 200,000 acres of unplanted fields of crops because of the lack of water. Besides the drought in Western States, there is a drought in Texas, the Midwest, and parts of the East Coast. Wildfires are happening more often and burning hotter. Storms are getting more violent.
This is also happening around the world.
This is way past “California dreamin” and has become a necessity, not just for CA or the United States but for the entire world.
And the sooner people like this guy gets with the program then maybe “We the People” around the world can salvage enough of this planet for those that come behind us to live on.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 28, 2022 21:24:16 GMT
If CA’s grid can handle the demand by 2035, then it’s doable. Also, by then, I would imagine the charging infrastructure won’t be as few as it is at present.
I’ve been spending a little over a year looking at the various options and reading about people’s experiences. I haven’t found one EV whose battery can withstand our harsh winters and below freezing temps in Illinois. Battery replacement will cost thousands of dollars. There’s supposedly a “super battery” that’s being tested, so I’m eager to know how that fares in the long run. In the meantime, I’m leaning more toward a hybrid.
|
|
pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,514
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
|
Post by pinklady on Aug 28, 2022 21:30:39 GMT
I’m not a fan of electric cars and I’m planning to keep a gas powered car as long as possible.
|
|
inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
|
Post by inkedup on Aug 28, 2022 21:36:43 GMT
I'm all for reducing fossil fuel dependence.
But let's talk about the reality of electric cars. They're not a panacea or a real solution. The batteries are not recyclable or renewable. They have a finite shelf life, and then become more toxic waste we will never get rid of. The mining of lithium is also problematic, and lithium is also a finite resource.
Not to mention the high cost of electric vehicles and the awful state of public transportation in CA.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 28, 2022 21:36:44 GMT
What will happen if Californians buy an ICE vehicle out of state when the ban is implemented? Will they still be able to title it in CA?
|
|
|
Post by katlady on Aug 28, 2022 21:52:28 GMT
What will happen if Californians buy an ICE vehicle out of state when the ban is implemented? Will they still be able to title it in CA? Yes, they will still be able to register it in California, as long as there is no Federal law. I am sure a lot of car dealers will pop up along the borders of California. With California being the biggest buyer of automobiles in the US, car manufacturers will probably be slowing down their production ICE vehicles. I jokingly told SO we need to plan it so we buy a new car in either 2033 or 2034. I don't know how lower income families will be able to buy an EV, plus install the hookup for it. I am sure technology will improve in 13 years, but I see a big market in California for used ICE vehicles. What California (and the SW) needs to do is start working on a solar infrastructure. With the amount of sunshine we get, there is no excuse for not promoting solar power. New homes in California have to have solar, but the government should do something to help promote the conversion of older homes. We already have a drought issue, solar power will help with the electricity grid.
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Aug 28, 2022 21:58:29 GMT
A couple of things.
On January 1, 2035 not every car in the state will turn into an EV. The goal of the state is to phase in EV cars while phasing out fossil fuel vehicles. So I’m pretty sure the electrical grid will be able to handle it.
As far as charging stations. Secretary Pete says there are plans to increase the number across the country. And car manufacturers have also indicated they will be building charging stations. After all it’s in their best interests since many models they manufacture are being changed to EV.
The batteries in use today will probably be obsolete by 2035 replaced by even better batteries. That is kind of how technology works.
Fossil fuel needs to go. My commute, before I retired, took me across the Golden Gate Bridge. Some afternoons crossing the bridge on my way home and looking toward The City, I would see this whiskey colored layer sitting on top of the water in the bay. It was the exhaust crap that came out of the gas powered cars. And even though you could only see it sitting on the bay, you just knew that is what the people had been breathing all around the Bay Area. And that happens not only across the United States but around the world. One does not have to believe in climate change to understand breathing that crap can’t be good for you. Especially for children or folks with breathing problems like asthma.
And I feel like I need to provide a definition of this term. Which is what CA is going to start to do 12 years from now.
“Definition of phase in : to start to use or do (something) gradually over a period of time : to introduce (something) slowly The country is phasing in new paper currency.”
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 28, 2022 22:03:29 GMT
I'm all for reducing dependence on fossil fuels. I think most reasonable people are. But at present, the mining for the batteries’ lithium has a significant harmful impact on the environment. If we go full EV, we'd be emitting an incredible amount of CO2.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Aug 28, 2022 22:05:23 GMT
Good.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Aug 28, 2022 22:08:39 GMT
For me, the issue remains, as it was a few years ago, that charging stations and the lack of them in multi-family dwellings without personal garages (apartment buildings, condominiums, and townhouses) continues to be a HUGE issue that NO ONE is addressing.
Dh and I would like to drive electric cars. However, in our townhouse, we do not have a garage and we only have one spot in front of our house. The other is past the end of the row - 5 townhouses down. We cannot have a charger by his space.
If we wanted to put a charger in our space, we would have to petition the HOA. If they approved, we would have to spend thousands of dollars to rip up our front lawn and the sidewalk in front of our townhouse, have an electrician tap into our electrical system, and run the wiring in protective pipes, then replace the lawn, and repour the sidewalk, and install the charging station. That work alone will cost over $5,000. And, there is no way to install a charger at dh’s space. So, we will have one charger and have to switch spots depending on who needs to be charged. And will need to figure out how to lock our personal charger so that no one else can use it on our tab.
Until our townhouse community installs public chargers, or someone subsidizes installing them, it just is too cost prohibitive for us and we are solidly middle class. I can’t imagine anyone less well off being able to afford it either. The way it is being discussed currently is certainly economically elitist.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 28, 2022 22:09:24 GMT
What will happen if Californians buy an ICE vehicle out of state when the ban is implemented? Will they still be able to title it in CA? Yes, they will still be able to register it in California, as long as there is no Federal law. I am sure a lot of car dealers will pop up along the borders of California. With California being the biggest buyer of automobiles in the US, car manufacturers will probably be slowing down their production ICE vehicles. I jokingly told SO we need to plan it so we buy a new car in either 2033 or 2034. I don't know how lower income families will be able to buy an EV, plus install the hookup for it. I am sure technology will improve in 13 years, but I see a big market in California for used ICE vehicles. What California (and the SW) needs to do is start working on a solar infrastructure. With the amount of sunshine we get, there is no excuse for not promoting solar power. New homes in California have to have solar, but the government should do something to help promote the conversion of older homes. We already have a drought issue, solar power will help with the electricity grid. And probably storage as well for the solar power? Who knows...there might also be a need for massive subsidies for the lower-income population? I think it’s easier to do this in CA because of the temperate climate. I can’t go all-EV. Our winter temps are not a joke. If that battery lasts only a couple of years--if I’m lucky--then I’m just throwing money away. I also often drive to Canada (Chicago to Detroit to Toronto) because I have family there, and that’s a very long drive. I can’t have a vehicle with a limited # of miles and then have to search for charging stations on the way (not to mention spending an hour or so recharging each time). With gas, it takes me five minutes to refill.
|
|
pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,752
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
|
Post by pantsonfire on Aug 28, 2022 22:13:27 GMT
For me, the issue remains, as it was a few years ago, that charging stations and the lack of them in multi-family dwellings without personal garages (apartment buildings, condominiums, and townhouses) continues to be a HUGE issue that NO ONE is addressing. Dh and I would like to drive electric cars. However, in our townhouse, we do not have a garage and we only have one spot in front of our house. The other is past the end of the row - 5 townhouses down. We cannot have a charger by his space. If we wanted to put a charger in our space, we would have to petition the HOA. If they approved, we would have to spend thousands of dollars to rip up our front lawn and the sidewalk in front of our townhouse, have an electrician tap into our electrical system, and run the wiring in protective pipes, then replace the lawn, and repour the sidewalk, and install the charging station. That work alone will cost over $5,000. And, there is no way to install a charger at dh’s space. So, we will have one charger and have to switch spots depending on who needs to be charged. Until our townhouse community installs public chargers, or someone subsidizes installing them, it just is too cost prohibitive for us and we are solidly middle class. I can’t imagine anyone less well off being able to afford it either. Yup. And with more and more multi family homes being built (apartments, condos, townhomes), it will be a big issue to tackle. Our townhouse has a 2 car garage. We fit one vehicle in it. The other is parked out front. There is no way there is enough room for charging stations. My biggest concern is cost AFTER the purchase. Cost to charge. We already spend $300-400 a month in summer for our electric bill. Maintenance. Parts. How far can you travel. Power outages. What are people to do who loose power when we have winds and are at a fire risk? It can be days with no power. Our state is not set up for this and I do not believe will be in 13 years.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Aug 28, 2022 22:47:45 GMT
For me, the issue remains, as it was a few years ago, that charging stations and the lack of them in multi-family dwellings without personal garages (apartment buildings, condominiums, and townhouses) continues to be a HUGE issue that NO ONE is addressing. Dh and I would like to drive electric cars. However, in our townhouse, we do not have a garage and we only have one spot in front of our house. The other is past the end of the row - 5 townhouses down. We cannot have a charger by his space. If we wanted to put a charger in our space, we would have to petition the HOA. If they approved, we would have to spend thousands of dollars to rip up our front lawn and the sidewalk in front of our townhouse, have an electrician tap into our electrical system, and run the wiring in protective pipes, then replace the lawn, and repour the sidewalk, and install the charging station. That work alone will cost over $5,000. And, there is no way to install a charger at dh’s space. So, we will have one charger and have to switch spots depending on who needs to be charged. Until our townhouse community installs public chargers, or someone subsidizes installing them, it just is too cost prohibitive for us and we are solidly middle class. I can’t imagine anyone less well off being able to afford it either. Yup. And with more and more multi family homes being built (apartments, condos, townhomes), it will be a big issue to tackle. Our townhouse has a 2 car garage. We fit one vehicle in it. The other is parked out front. There is no way there is enough room for charging stations. My biggest concern is cost AFTER the purchase. Cost to charge. We already spend $300-400 a month in summer for our electric bill. Maintenance. Parts. How far can you travel. Power outages. What are people to do who loose power when we have winds and are at a fire risk? It can be days with no power. Our state is not set up for this and I do not believe will be in 13 years. Electric vehicles are not the perfect solution. There are clearly a lot of issues to work out - the environmental concerns over mining for lithium, how to charge cars parked outside of a garage, not enough charging stations especially in rural areas, life of the batteries, what to do with the dead batteries, cold temperatures etc. But, I think as more people buy them, the technology will evolve to solve some of those problems. www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/climate/lithium-electric-car-batteries.htmlAs far as the cost to charge, estimates are less than the price of gas for most people, depending on the cost of electricity and the price of gas. www.kbb.com/car-news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-ev/“A conservative rule of thumb is that an electric car gets 3 to 4 miles per kWh,” Voelcker says. “So divide the total miles you drive each month by 3 to get the kWh you would use monthly. Multiply that number by your cost per kWh. The dollar amount you get will most likely be lower than what you pay each month to buy gasoline.”
To put this into perspective, let’s give an example. Let’s say you drive about 1,183 miles per month (Americans drive an average of about 14,200 miles annually). For an EV, you will use about 394 kWh in that timeframe. Using the U.S. household average from January 2022 of nearly 14 cents per kWh, it would cost about $55 per month to charge an electric car.My parents live in CT with cold temperatures and my mom bought an EV a year ago, I will find out how they solved the cold temp problem. eta - found this interesting www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/how-much-do-cold-temperatures-affect-an-evs-driving-range-a5751769461/
|
|
|
Post by katlady on Aug 28, 2022 23:10:23 GMT
Our townhouse has a 2 car garage. We fit one vehicle in it. The other is parked out front. There is no way there is enough room for charging stations. My neighbor is getting a Tesla. They just had the hookup for charging installed in their garage. That thing is small! It just a hose and handle stuck on the wall, hardly protrudes. It reminds me of a wall phone. It is not like charging stations you see in parking lots because all the wiring is inside the garage wall. I asked him about cost to charge and it said it is less than a full tank of gas (about $30) to fully charge. Of course, the mileage is different, but he said about 200 miles on a charge.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 28, 2022 23:38:26 GMT
It’s not just the range that’s an issue. It’s the negative impact on the battery’s lifespan. In a lithium battery, the ions are in a liquid electrolyte. That electrolyte gets thicker in cold temp and can freeze causing resistance. As resistance increases, the lithium builds up, and if the build-up continues due to the frequent cold, it damages the layer that separates the anode and cathode. When that happens, your battery is gone. Replacement costs can go from $3,000 to over $10,000 depending on your battery and EV model. That's one of the main reasons I haven't bought an EV. (In my current ICE vehicle, I myself changed the battery last year because it’s very easy to do and spent $189 for a Duralast.)
|
|
seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
|
Post by seaexplore on Aug 28, 2022 23:59:21 GMT
onelasttime the muscle car that won't be produced any longer is the Dodge Charger. I ADORE my Charger. I don't want the new one. The "sound" of the "engine" sounds like absolute crap. I live in CA. Every new home is required to have solar but not "too much" because if you put too much solar on PG&E has to pay you for over production. We put solar on (built in 2004, solar added in 2019) the house but were limited to how many panels we could put because of overproduction. How stupid is that? You'd think they would WANT people to produce more than they use because it gets fed back to the grid and redistributed. Whatever. AND CA can't seem to keep the power on half the time. Work isn't going to be ok with "I can't come in because my car battery didn't charge since I had no power". I don't have ANY mass transit ANYWHERE near me so I would be missing work. Road trips? Figure charging time in. We make it from our house to San Diego in 8 hours... EV? Figure in at least 12-16 hours. That's shit. Drive 3 hours and have to charge it for over an hour while you find something to do (spend money on stuff you wouldn't normally)? Really? That's going to suck. Anyway, cars charge on a much larger dedicated circuit for a quick charge than most homes have. Trickle charges work but it takes forever for a full charge. I drive 300 miles a week JUST FOR WORK so I will have to charge a few times a week assuming I can get max capacity on my car battery. As we all know, as batteries get old they hold less charge. At some point they'll need to be replaced. Old ones in the landfill, new ones mined and made. Waste. My cars are driven for as long as they can go. Currently I have over 150K miles on my 2012 (bought in 2015 with 10K miles on it). We have over 150K on our 2005 SUV that is used for towing boats and lake trips and camping trips and taking the kids to/from school. We have over 250K miles on our work truck. I traded in my 2000 Intrepid in 2015 with 250K miles on it. We keep our cars until they die. Unfortunately batteries dies faster than the rest of the car. I'm not in favor of that mess. You can pry my gas vehicle out of my cold dead hands. I hate EV's. AND don't get me started on the "pay to use" features that automakers are putting on their cars... heated seats? Yeah, it comes with them but you have to pay a monthly fee. Remote start? Yeah, it comes with it but you have to pay a monthly fee. Where does it end?
|
|
caangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,446
Location: So Cal
Jun 26, 2014 16:42:12 GMT
|
Post by caangel on Aug 29, 2022 0:00:40 GMT
Our townhouse has a 2 car garage. We fit one vehicle in it. The other is parked out front. There is no way there is enough room for charging stations. My neighbor is getting a Tesla. They just had the hookup for charging installed in their garage. That thing is small! It just a hose and handle stuck on the wall, hardly protrudes. It reminds me of a wall phone. It is not like charging stations you see in parking lots because all the wiring is inside the garage wall. I asked him about cost to charge and it said it is less than a full tank of gas (about $30) to fully charge. Of course, the mileage is different, but he said about 200 miles on a charge. All that is needed in a house is a 220 dryer outlet. While this is not a fast/super charger that is available commercially it is standard for most homes. The car usually comes with the charging cable. DH got a Polestar in Jan but it comes with 2 yrs of free charging and we have 2 public charging stations with in 5 miles or less that he uses for free. A couple of times he has charged just by plugging into the regular outlet in the garage that we have available (super slow). We will eventually get a 220 outlet installed. We have talked about me eventually getting a hybrid of some sort. We need a car that can get us to Tahoe (9+hr drive and below freezing temps).
|
|
|
Post by mammajamma on Aug 29, 2022 0:04:36 GMT
Do they have a number of power plants in the works? That’s a lot of cars to power and I hope they diversify the electrical grid.
|
|
caangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,446
Location: So Cal
Jun 26, 2014 16:42:12 GMT
|
Post by caangel on Aug 29, 2022 0:07:43 GMT
Road trips? Figure charging time in. We make it from our house to San Diego in 8 hours... EV? Figure in at least 12-16 hours. That's shit. Drive 3 hours and have to charge it for over an hour while you find something to do (spend money on stuff you wouldn't normally)? Really? That's going to suck. In my husband's Polestar (not the highest range out there) an 9hr drive from OC to Tahoe would only add 2 hrs for charging. While we usually only stop once to eat for 1 hr. Most people stop twice for that long a drive. It would not be double the time. We drove from OC to Yosemite area. Stopped once in Fresno to charge (and eat) and was able to charge locally where we were staying. Zero issues.
|
|
seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
|
Post by seaexplore on Aug 29, 2022 0:21:37 GMT
Do they have a number of power plants in the works? That’s a lot of cars to power and I hope they diversify the electrical grid. Nope. And the nuclear plants are being decommissioned. I think we have ONE left operating in CA.
|
|
seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
|
Post by seaexplore on Aug 29, 2022 0:25:31 GMT
Road trips? Figure charging time in. We make it from our house to San Diego in 8 hours... EV? Figure in at least 12-16 hours. That's shit. Drive 3 hours and have to charge it for over an hour while you find something to do (spend money on stuff you wouldn't normally)? Really? That's going to suck. In my husband's Polestar (not the highest range out there) an 9hr drive from OC to Tahoe would only add 2 hrs for charging. While we usually only stop once to eat for 1 hr. Most people stop twice for that long a drive. It would not be double the time. We drove from OC to Yosemite area. Stopped once in Fresno to charge (and eat) and was able to charge locally where we were staying. Zero issues. That's good to know that an EV can go that far, most don't have a great range. For us, we wouldn't stop other than to get gas (10 min) once. We generally bring a ton of snacks and food. Pee when we get gas.
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Aug 29, 2022 0:26:41 GMT
onelasttime the muscle car that won't be produced any longer is the Dodge Charger. I ADORE my Charger. I don't want the new one. The "sound" of the "engine" sounds like absolute crap. I live in CA. Every new home is required to have solar but not "too much" because if you put too much solar on PG&E has to pay you for over production. We put solar on (built in 2004, solar added in 2019) the house but were limited to how many panels we could put because of overproduction. How stupid is that? You'd think they would WANT people to produce more than they use because it gets fed back to the grid and redistributed. Whatever. AND CA can't seem to keep the power on half the time. Work isn't going to be ok with "I can't come in because my car battery didn't charge since I had no power". I don't have ANY mass transit ANYWHERE near me so I would be missing work. Road trips? Figure charging time in. We make it from our house to San Diego in 8 hours... EV? Figure in at least 12-16 hours. That's shit. Drive 3 hours and have to charge it for over an hour while you find something to do (spend money on stuff you wouldn't normally)? Really? That's going to suck. Anyway, cars charge on a much larger dedicated circuit for a quick charge than most homes have. Trickle charges work but it takes forever for a full charge. I drive 300 miles a week JUST FOR WORK so I will have to charge a few times a week assuming I can get max capacity on my car battery. As we all know, as batteries get old they hold less charge. At some point they'll need to be replaced. Old ones in the landfill, new ones mined and made. Waste. My cars are driven for as long as they can go. Currently I have over 150K miles on my 2012 (bought in 2015 with 10K miles on it). We have over 150K on our 2005 SUV that is used for towing boats and lake trips and camping trips and taking the kids to/from school. We have over 250K miles on our work truck. I traded in my 2000 Intrepid in 2015 with 250K miles on it. We keep our cars until they die. Unfortunately batteries dies faster than the rest of the car. I'm not in favor of that mess. You can pry my gas vehicle out of my cold dead hands. I hate EV's. AND don't get me started on the "pay to use" features that automakers are putting on their cars... heated seats? Yeah, it comes with them but you have to pay a monthly fee. Remote start? Yeah, it comes with it but you have to pay a monthly fee. Where does it end? I couldn’t remember the name. My favorite is the Mustang with a V-8 engine.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 29, 2022 0:32:51 GMT
Do they have a number of power plants in the works? That’s a lot of cars to power and I hope they diversify the electrical grid. Nope. And the nuclear plants are being decommissioned. I think we have ONE left operating in CA. ?? Then where are you going to get the electricity to charge all these cars? There must be some sort of a plan to boost your grid, I would think.
|
|
seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
|
Post by seaexplore on Aug 29, 2022 0:38:02 GMT
Nope. And the nuclear plants are being decommissioned. I think we have ONE left operating in CA. ?? Then where are you going to get the electricity to charge all these cars? There must be some sort of a plan to boost your grid, I would think. It's CA. Things are put in place and not funded/thought about until after the shit hits the fan.
|
|
|
Post by katlady on Aug 29, 2022 0:51:32 GMT
Nope. And the nuclear plants are being decommissioned. I think we have ONE left operating in CA. ?? Then where are you going to get the electricity to charge all these cars? There must be some sort of a plan to boost your grid, I would think. Almost half of our production of electricity is from natural gas. The rest is from solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear. Diablo Canyon provides less than 10% of California’s electricity. We also import a lot of electricity from Arizona and Nevada. San Diego experienced a massive blackout several years ago when a transmission line from Arizona failed. California’s government has pledged to upgrade our electric grid, so we can just wait and see.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 29, 2022 1:01:32 GMT
I have a Nissan Leaf. I do not need a charging station as it can plug into a normal outlet for slow charge and a 220 (think dryer) for faster charging. I also have solar panels and batteries so not using much electricity from the grid to charge my car.
I love my Leaf, but there are issues.
1) I live in a rural area. There are no charging stations within 20-30 miles of me. If I need a fast charge, it is quite a drive 2) living rurally means that I don't hit my brakes a lot. That means that the 260 mile charge doesn't last that long because I am not recharging as I drive. 3) driving in wind or uphill uses the charge much faster. 4) even in bigger cities it can be difficult to find a charger and it is often a crapshoot if it is working I have no idea how someone charges you if you rub out if a charge before you get to a charger
EV cars aren't the only solution. Let's get more on the road, but I still think we are farther from being 100% there than 12 years.
I don't like the all or nothing scenarios and they are easy to be argued against.
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Aug 29, 2022 1:02:12 GMT
What about what about what about. With that kind of attitude it’s amazing we still aren’t living in caves and grunting at each other.
As to CA’s one nuclear plant I heard Newsom wants to extend the life of it for I don’t know how long.
A nuclear plant in earthquake country has never seemed to be a good idea.
But then I’m not a fan of nuclear plants. Look at that one in Ukraine that has a lot people nervous and with good reason. I mean it’s not like it can be destroyed without creating catastrophic repercussions in a large territory.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Aug 29, 2022 1:13:34 GMT
What about what about what about. With that kind of attitude it’s amazing we still aren’t living in caves and grunting at each other. Oh, get off it. These aren’t excuses. They’re valid concerns. You’re not the only one who cares about climate change, and some of us have been informing ourselves of the pros and cons of EVs. Do you even drive? If you do, do you own an EV?
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 29, 2022 1:22:20 GMT
What about what about what about. With that kind of attitude it’s amazing we still aren’t living in caves and grunting at each other. As to CA’s one nuclear plant I heard Newsom wants to extend the life of it for I don’t know how long. A nuclear plant in earthquake country has never seemed to be a good idea. But then I’m not a fan of nuclear plants. Look at that one in Ukraine that has a lot people nervous and with good reason. I mean it’s not like it can be destroyed without creating catastrophic repercussions in a large territory. it's not what abouts, these are genuine issues that need to be addressed.
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Aug 29, 2022 1:45:19 GMT
I have a Nissan Leaf. I do not need a charging station as it can plug into a normal outlet for slow charge and a 220 (think dryer) for faster charging. I also have solar panels and batteries so not using much electricity from the grid to charge my car. I love my Leaf, but there are issues. 1) I live in a rural area. There are no charging stations within 20-30 miles of me. If I need a fast charge, it is quite a drive 2) living rurally means that I don't hit my brakes a lot. That means that the 260 mile charge doesn't last that long because I am not recharging as I drive. 3) driving in wind or uphill uses the charge much faster. 4) even in bigger cities it can be difficult to find a charger and it is often a crapshoot if it is working I have no idea how someone charges you if you rub out if a charge before you get to a charger EV cars aren't the only solution. Let's get more on the road, but I still think we are farther from being 100% there than 12 years. I don't like the all or nothing scenarios and they are easy to be argued against. As of 2035 no NEW gas powered cars will be sold in CA. People can buy used gas cars in CA or they can buy a new gas powered car in Nevada, Oregon, or Arizona and bring it into CA. There will be nobody at the border to stop them. On January 1, 2035 when people wake up in CA, those who had gas powered cars on December 31 will still have gas powered cars on January 1. So in no way shape or form will CA be 100% EV cars by 2035. That was never the intended outcome. When it comes to climate change in some respects, because we have dragged our collective feet for years, we are almost at the point that it’s “all or nothing.“ And when one looks at the affects to various countries, including the United States, are already experiencing there is no rational argument against any of the changes that must be made if we want a planet that we can actually live on. One other thing, driving up a hill/mountain or against a strong wind causes a gas engine to use more gas because the engine has to work harder to get up the hill and to go against the wind. So it makes sense the same would apply to an EV as well. I mean an engine is still an engine regardless of its fuel source.
|
|