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Post by Merge on Dec 9, 2022 23:42:55 GMT
I don't believe I lumped anyone in? We commonly use "the peas" here to generalize, as in WDTPT threads. No one expects consensus on those threads. It's a colloquialism. Of course there are varied opinions here. Some of them - belonging to some of the peas - are that people who go overseas and find themselves in trouble should just recognize that they now deserve to be treated inhumanely.You seem awfully defensive for someone who allegedly does not hold the views I'm talking about. . More intelligent and less narcissistic people wouldn’t be dumb enough to take an illegal substance into a foreign country, let alone Russia. I hope griner has a better view of our national anthem now that she’s back. You would know! |
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Post by littlemama on Dec 9, 2022 23:48:00 GMT
I don't believe I lumped anyone in? We commonly use "the peas" here to generalize, as in WDTPT threads. No one expects consensus on those threads. It's a colloquialism. Of course there are varied opinions here. Some of them - belonging to some of the peas - are that people who go overseas and find themselves in trouble should just recognize that they now deserve to be treated inhumanely.You seem awfully defensive for someone who allegedly does not hold the views I'm talking about. Stupid is as stupid does. More intelligent and less narcissistic people wouldn’t be dumb enough to take an illegal substance into a foreign country, let alone Russia. I hope griner has a better view of our national anthem now that she’s back. What the hell does the national anthem have to do with anything? We are the only country where people are so obsessed with the national anthem and the only one with a pledge of allegiance. It's quite odd. |
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Post by Merge on Dec 10, 2022 0:02:56 GMT
Stupid is as stupid does. More intelligent and less narcissistic people wouldn’t be dumb enough to take an illegal substance into a foreign country, let alone Russia. I hope griner has a better view of our national anthem now that she’s back. What the hell does the national anthem have to do with anything? We are the only country where people are so obsessed with the national anthem and the only one with a pledge of allegiance. It's quite odd. And why do we even play it at sporting events in our own country? I understand at the Olympics or World Cup, but at a Dallas Cowboys game? Is someone confused about which country they're in? It's so weird. (There's no good reason. It's become a purity test for the right, who have substituted jingoism for patriotism because they don't know what the latter means.) |
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Post by AussieMeg on Dec 10, 2022 0:18:03 GMT
What the hell does the national anthem have to do with anything? We are the only country where people are so obsessed with the national anthem and the only one with a pledge of allegiance. It's quite odd. And why do we even play it at sporting events in our own country? I understand at the Olympics or World Cup, but at a Dallas Cowboys game? Is someone confused about which country they're in? It's so weird. The USA really has cornered the market on overt displays of patriotism, but even here in Australia we stand and sing the national anthem at football matches. But only at games during the four weeks of the finals series, not every game throughout the season. And definitely no hand over the heart. That's just a bridge too far for us.  |
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Post by epeanymous on Dec 10, 2022 0:19:24 GMT
What the hell does the national anthem have to do with anything? We are the only country where people are so obsessed with the national anthem and the only one with a pledge of allegiance. It's quite odd. And why do we even play it at sporting events in our own country? I understand at the Olympics or World Cup, but at a Dallas Cowboys game? Is someone confused about which country they're in? It's so weird. My college boyfriend was a huge hockey fan so we went to all of the university's hockey games, which is why I know the Canadian national anthem (so many of our team's members were Canadian that the band played both anthems). I have been sitting out the pledge of allegiance since second grade, because a friend of mine was a Jehovah's Witness and couldn't say it, so I started refusing to say it in solidarity so she wouldn't feel weird. I have a lit of empathy for people who, for all sorts of reasons, do not want to participate in those kinds of rituals. |
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Post by Merge on Dec 10, 2022 0:20:35 GMT
And why do we even play it at sporting events in our own country? I understand at the Olympics or World Cup, but at a Dallas Cowboys game? Is someone confused about which country they're in? It's so weird. The USA really has cornered the market on overt displays of patriotism, but even here in Australia we stand and sing the national anthem at football matches. But only at games during the four weeks of the finals series, not every game throughout the season. And definitely no hand over the heart. That's just a bridge too far for us. I found out today that you all join us in calling soccer, soccer? Did I misunderstand that? It's us against literally the rest of the world? In the US it's every sport, every game, all season long. Stupid. And what's especially stupid is that it's become this ridiculous test of patriotism. Just to piss off people like cindosha , when we're at a baseball game and they're playing the anthem - that's when I go order a beer. It's my right as an American to do whatever the hell I want during that time. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Dec 10, 2022 0:25:16 GMT
I found out today that you all join us in calling soccer, soccer? Did I misunderstand that? It's us against literally the rest of the world? LOL yes, we call it soccer too. It's you and me against the world, baby! And New Zealand of course. Like the US with grid iron, we also have our own code of football, Australian Rules (also rugby league in a couple of states), which we call football. Soccer is soccer. I have friends here from England, Cameroon, Peru, and it annoys them immensely when I call it soccer instead of football. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Dec 10, 2022 0:30:58 GMT
when we're at a baseball game and they're playing the anthem - that's when I go order a beer. It's my right as an American to do whatever the hell I want during that time. Ha!  Nobody here goes to get a drink during the anthem at finals matches, because it's tradition to yell out for your team at the top of your lungs, right before the end of the anthem, and drown out the last words. "In joyful strains then let us sing 🎶 Advance Austral....." "CARN THE HAWKS!" "GO DEMONS!" |
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by samantha25 on Dec 10, 2022 0:46:05 GMT
I don't believe I lumped anyone in? We commonly use "the peas" here to generalize, as in WDTPT threads. No one expects consensus on those threads. It's a colloquialism. Of course there are varied opinions here. Some of them - belonging to some of the peas - are that people who go overseas and find themselves in trouble should just recognize that they now deserve to be treated inhumanely.You seem awfully defensive for someone who allegedly does not hold the views I'm talking about. Stupid is as stupid does. More intelligent and less narcissistic people wouldn’t be dumb enough to take an illegal substance into a foreign country, let alone Russia. I hope griner has a better view of our national anthem now that she’s back. What do you think the national anthem means? Another deflection of the topic. WOW. |
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 10, 2022 1:15:22 GMT
I don't believe I lumped anyone in? We commonly use "the peas" here to generalize, as in WDTPT threads. No one expects consensus on those threads. It's a colloquialism. Of course there are varied opinions here. Some of them - belonging to some of the peas - are that people who go overseas and find themselves in trouble should just recognize that they now deserve to be treated inhumanely.You seem awfully defensive for someone who allegedly does not hold the views I'm talking about. Stupid is as stupid does. More intelligent and less narcissistic people wouldn’t be dumb enough to take an illegal substance into a foreign country, let alone Russia. I hope griner has a better view of our national anthem now that she’s back. Hmm. Maybe she should have been as respectful as your buddy Trump when the anthem was played. He was acting bored, fidgeting, goofing off, dancing and pretending to conduct an orchestra. That's standing proud? I don't recall your criticizing him. Somehow Trump's disrespect is OK, but Griner and other athletes choosing to use their platform to protest police brutality and social injustice, is not? Kneeling was never intended as a disrespect for the flag or the military. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/28/brittney-griner-brianna-turner-call-wnba-stop-playing-national-anthem-this-season/Like Colin Kaepernick and others in sports, she is clear that her message does not concern the military or the flag. It’s about police brutality and social injustice.
“I don’t mean that in any disrespect to our country. My dad was in Vietnam and a law officer for 30 years,” she said. “I wanted to be a cop before basketball. I do have pride for my country.” |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 10, 2022 1:44:08 GMT
For exactly the reason I am not a judge, or a politician or a police officer, I don't want to pass judgment on someone else's life or alter the path of someone's life based on limited, incorrect, or false information. I recognize that I will never know the vast majority of all this going on, nor do I really want to. One thing I do know though, it seems the Whelan family seems to understand how awful it is to have a loved one detained in such a horrible situation, and they are being very classy about it. I do hope he comes home. That said, I'm sick and tired of all my "patriotic" social media friends (I'm former military) etc running their mouths about "freeing the druggie before the patriot." That dude was dishonorably discharged for being a thief. He forfeited all that respect from me. That's not to say that I think he should be held in a Russian forced labor camp til he keels over, that's just to say that the tag of "Patriot and served his country" is sure hot helping me to have warm fuzzies and take up support of his cause. I sure hate the whole propaganda thing that we allow ourselves to be spoon fed these days. That said... I'm not sure why Brittney Griner doesn't get sent immediately to a jail/prison here. It is illegal to have cannabis OR cannabis oil (whether you personally believe it to be wrong or right) in an airport, as federal law applies. Every pot conviction in the US should be overturned before she's let out. You know that is you have cannabis in ab airport, the TSA either ignores it or they confiscate it, right? You'd have to have an awful lot of it for them to even consider arresting you. I don’t know that, and it’s irrelevant to me. It’s still illegal, yes? Ok. I still think I would choose not the break the law and give them an opportunity. Or Russia a chance to use me as a pawn. |
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samantha25
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Post by samantha25 on Dec 10, 2022 2:16:34 GMT
Calling Griner a druggie. I don't get it. It wasn't like she was a mule carrying drugs in their private parts and intending to distribute. That seems to me, like a crime that would fit a higher sentence unlike what Griner was carrying, even to Russia's standards. Applying Griner's case to release vs. Whelan is a political distraction as Whelan's case has always been in a discussion in progress and did not apply to Griner as there has been many others swapped that we have no inside information as to who/what/why/how their release was possible. I wish those reading other people's point of view, I'd wish you would consider mine as you are all playing into Russia's POV to cause discord among the US.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 10, 2022 2:41:44 GMT
For the record, Griner was not chosen over Whelan, Whelan was not left behind because he voted for Trump, it's not about who gets privileges under the Biden administration or any of the other right wing nonsense from Tucker Carlson and Fox. Russia refuses to negotiate for the release of Whelan because they consider him a spy and Griner just a criminal like Bout. Also, Griner's politics were relatively unknown until conservative media started ranting about them. Blowback Over Griner’s Release Exposes Depth of America’s Divisions
Past hostage exchanges have sparked criticism, but the response to Brittney Griner’s homecoming has been fueled by the politics of race, gender and sexual orientation.www.nytimes.com/2022/12/09/us/politics/griner-blowback.htmlThere was a time when the release of American citizens who had been unjustly imprisoned by a foreign adversary was a moment for bipartisan relief and celebration: the 2018 return of three men from North Korea, secured by President Donald J. Trump, or the 1991 freeing of Terry Anderson, an American journalist, after years of captivity in Lebanon.
Within hours of Ms. Griner’s release, much of the right wing was in full outrage mode, seizing upon both the man Ms. Griner had been exchanged for — Viktor Bout, a notorious Russian arms merchant serving time, in part, for endangering American lives — and the Biden administration’s failure to secure the release as well, or instead, of a former Marine, Paul Whelan, who has languished in a Russian prison since his 2018 arrest on espionage charges.
A considerable amount of attention was also paid to who Ms. Griner is: a Black woman, a celebrity, a married lesbian and, though it had gone largely unnoticed until now, an assertive liberal — one who, at the height of the Black Lives Matter protests, called to stop playing the national anthem at her team’s basketball games.
“There’s that underlying sense that this is part of the Democrats’ focusing on someone who is sympathetic to them and leaving a Marine behind,” said David Silbey, a military historian at Cornell University. “It fits nicely in the narrative that a lot of the right is telling America, about who gets the privilege in Biden’s America.”
Still, Colin Kaepernick Ms. Griner is not. Her politics were unknown to most Americans beyond the fringe right and the ardent left until her release, when prominent voices on the right seized on them. Tucker Carlson led his top-rated Fox News show on Thursday night with a diatribe, accusing Ms. Griner of being unpatriotic and suggesting that Mr. Whelan had been left behind because of his politics.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 10, 2022 3:14:26 GMT
From a sports writer, just a few segments. www.nytimes.com/2022/12/09/sports/basketball/brittney-griner-return-letter.htmlWelcome home, Brittney. At long last, welcome home.
Like so many others, I wondered if this day would ever come.
Now you are home and safe after nearly 10 months of brutal uncertainty and fear.
Home and safe after isolating imprisonment in a Russia that has cast aside international norms.
Home and safe after getting trapped in a web of geopolitics that grew thicker each day as the war in Ukraine dragged on.
What you endured over the last 10 months is nearly unfathomable. As a Black, openly gay woman, you were in particular danger as a prisoner in a country with dangerous, retrograde views on race and sexuality.
Home — and safe. What a turn of events.
And yet, less than a day after your plane touched down at a Texas military base, controversy and conversation swirl.
Some voices say the Biden administration should never have swapped a W.N.B.A. star in a one-for-one trade for Viktor Bout, a former Soviet Army lieutenant colonel described by the Justice Department as one of the world’s most prolific arms dealers.
Others feel that you deserved no help, that you alone should have answered to Russian authorities for the mistake of having vape cartridges containing a trace of cannabis oil in your luggage, even though you’ve said you use the substance for pain management.
During this ordeal, we all saw the anguish and tears of your wife, Cherelle Griner. She, no surprise, has said the two of you will speak up for Americans the State Department has said were wrongly detained in other countries, including Paul Whelan, who has been imprisoned in Russia since 2018.
Before all this happened, you might not have been well-known outside of sports circles. Now, more and more people have heard about how you were part of a wave of W.N.B.A. players who spoke up for racial injustice. More know that you have fought to help L.G.B.T.Q. people and those without homes in Phoenix.
Sports stars offer us inspiration in many ways. Most commonly, it’s on fields and courts, through performances that allow us to see how we can be stretched to the limit.
Brittney, you’ve inspired us in ways that matter more than slam dunks, blocked shots or championships.
Now your name and your story have a resonance few in the sports world can top. Who can better speak to our American shortcomings than someone scorned by many at home but also saved and spared by the intense efforts of the U.S. government?
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msladibug
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by msladibug on Dec 10, 2022 3:50:07 GMT
I’m kind of thinking the bigger threat to this country is not some arms dealer but angry white males who can legally buy AR-15s and then use school kids, or members of the gay community, or co-workers for Amen. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 10, 2022 3:55:44 GMT
The USA really has cornered the market on overt displays of patriotism, but even here in Australia we stand and sing the national anthem at football matches. But only at games during the four weeks of the finals series, not every game throughout the season. And definitely no hand over the heart. That's just a bridge too far for us. I found out today that you all join us in calling soccer, soccer? Did I misunderstand that? It's us against literally the rest of the world? In the US it's every sport, every game, all season long. Stupid. And what's especially stupid is that it's become this ridiculous test of patriotism. Just to piss off people like cindosha , when we're at a baseball game and they're playing the anthem - that's when I go order a beer. It's my right as an American to do whatever the hell I want during that time. I don't know the accuracy of her statement, but my mom has always said that it was started to try to increase patriotism and get people to join the military. |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 10, 2022 4:09:48 GMT
Wow. So it’s true.
Marc Fogel isn’t a celebrity. He isn’t gay and isn’t black. And … no one cares.
We’ve devolved to the anthem, the term used to refer to a game in which a ball is kicked around, and exactly what laws the TSA is (apparently) ok with ignoring.
Definitely not the optics it looks like 🤣🤣🤣
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msladibug
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by msladibug on Dec 10, 2022 4:11:31 GMT
Brittany said she had a script for her oils I have used dabs (hash oil) for pain. You can buy it in dispensaries. I’ve carried it in my bag when out and about.
I would probably be one to be caught having cartridges, I have them everywhere. I could see where it could have been her suitcase by accident.
This is MY opinion, whether you agree or not.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 10, 2022 5:30:11 GMT
From Fox News…
“National Security Council’s John Kirby on the prisoner swap with Russia that brought WNBA star Brittney Griner home:
“[Russia is] treating Paul [Whelan] differently. Paul was never in that mix in their mind with respect to Mr. Bout. It was just for Brittney.”
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Post by Merge on Dec 10, 2022 10:47:56 GMT
Wow. So it’s true. Marc Fogel isn’t a celebrity. He isn’t gay and isn’t black. And … no one cares. We’ve devolved to the anthem, the term used to refer to a game in which a ball is kicked around, and exactly what laws the TSA is (apparently) ok with ignoring. Definitely not the optics it looks like 🤣🤣🤣 How is Marc Fogel any less off topic for this thread than the things you mention? Again, it’s not as if Putin offered this handful of Americans to Putin and Biden said, eh, we’ll take the black lesbian basketball star. Of course everyone wants Marc Fogel home, too. To say otherwise is simply disingenuous. And you’re falling into exactly what Putin wants - dissension over who got to come home. Is it really your position that the US should have refused Brittney and held out for Marc or someone else who was not being offered? I’m sure it’s not. So let’s stop beating each other up over who got to come home and who hasn’t yet. |
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Post by cindosha on Dec 10, 2022 10:49:06 GMT
Stupid is as stupid does. More intelligent and less narcissistic people wouldn’t be dumb enough to take an illegal substance into a foreign country, let alone Russia. I hope griner has a better view of our national anthem now that she’s back. You would know! Ouch!! I guess you really put me in my place…🤣🤣 |
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Post by cindosha on Dec 10, 2022 11:05:50 GMT
I’m kind of thinking the bigger threat to this country is not some arms dealer but angry white males who can legally buy AR-15s and then use school kids, or members of the gay community, or co-workers for target practice. Oh, the hypocrisy in your statement. Do you not see it? FJB released a convicted arms dealer. I’m pretty sure that the difference between the number of “angry white males” who legally buy ar-15’s and the number of them that use them to kill people is about .0000001%. Probably less. |
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 10, 2022 13:33:25 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Dec 10, 2022 14:18:33 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 10, 2022 15:18:59 GMT
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Post by birukitty on Dec 10, 2022 18:32:50 GMT
1. Ah they totaled the gram weight of the drug in each container to come to a total amount of the drug in both containers to be less then one gram. So I’m not sure where you are getting a it’s a percentage. By the way the bolded part was copied out of the article I used and is linked in the post where I shared this information if you would like to read the entire article. 2. So other then the real possibility Russia is/was treating Griner as a political pawn in Russia’s ongoing goal to stick it to the United States every chance they get do you know for a fact if Russia’s laws for citizens don’t translate to visitors or are you just guessing? 1) You began quoting me and giving me irrelevant quantitative information as a result of my response to katlady saying "You can have up to 0.3% THC." The value 0.3% represents a percent. Percent is generally calculated using weight and volume. In this instance it sounds like there were potentially two instances that either were, or were not over 0.3%. We were talking about US Federal laws (since it can be deduced that she brought it to Russia after obtaining it in the US and traveling to Russia via a US airport, under Federal jurisdiction.) Now, whether that is true or not, who knows. This is based on her statement that she "didn't know." 2) I don't, in any way, doubt that she is being treated like a political pawn. But I also don't doubt that either she took it to Russia (breaking US Federal law) or she obtained it in Russia (thus breaking their law.) Further, she fully intended to bring it back to the US (again breaking a law... my guess is that is that bring it into the US is way more serious (for the US) than possession on the way out of the country, but who knows...) Soooooo *she chose* to break at least one law somewhere around in this mess, and put herself in the position of being used as a political pawn. And in doing so, highlighted the fact that the White House prioritized her return for some reason over the other Americans being held abroad. It is difficult to ignore the optics. It is also difficult to ignore the increased danger for Americans traveling overseas due to her carelessness, or privilege, or entitlement. Pick at least one word. Oh, you don't think she was released based on her celebrity and privilege? Why is Marc Fogel still in Russia? Been there longer, and had a prescription for his pot, and is a lowly teacher. 14 year sentence. www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/07/28/marc-fogel-teacher-russia-prison/ I just finished reading the article you linked on Marc Fogel. This is the difference I see in the two cases. Marc Fogel entered Russia carrying 14 vape cartridges in his luggage and some flower (marijuana buds) in his contact lens case. The total volume weight equaled half an oz. He was charged with possession AND intent to sell to his students. Brittney Griner was caught with 2 vape cartridges in her luggage with the combined weight of less than one gram. 1/2 oz converts to 1.41 grams so Marc Fogel had 1.41 grams vs. Brittney Griner's less than one gram, plus he was charged with the intent to sell in addition to possession. I do think Brittney being a pro basketball player brought her case more exposure here in the USA, vs. Marc Fogel being an unknown teacher. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 10, 2022 23:35:43 GMT
Well, to be fair-or accurate-it’s not a problem unless you (general you) or your kids happen to be trapped in a place with a crazed spree killer. This is why so many Gen Zers want sensible gun laws. |
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Post by Zee on Dec 10, 2022 23:50:29 GMT
I’m kind of thinking the bigger threat to this country is not some arms dealer but angry white males who can legally buy AR-15s and then use school kids, or members of the gay community, or co-workers for target practice. Oh, FFS!! Find another topic. You're the one who introduced this thought. It's almost like you're in favor of...gun control for Russians. 🤣 Though you don't live there and can't really judge their laws, right? 🤔 I'm sure Russians have more to fear from this man than we do. We have enough to worry about just going to the mall or the movies or getting gas. |
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Post by cindosha on Dec 11, 2022 0:30:00 GMT
Oh, FFS!! Find another topic. You're the one who introduced this thought. It's almost like you're in favor of...gun control for Russians. 🤣 Though you don't live there and can't really judge their laws, right? 🤔 I'm sure Russians have more to fear from this man than we do. We have enough to worry about just going to the mall or the movies or getting gas. Nope!! Read my posts again. It was onelasttime who did. But nice try. |
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Post by cindosha on Dec 11, 2022 0:34:39 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. |
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Nobody here goes to get a drink during the anthem at finals matches, because it's tradition to yell out for your team at the top of your lungs, right before the end of the anthem, and drown out the last words. 
