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Post by cindosha on Dec 11, 2022 0:42:39 GMT
Well, to be fair-or accurate-it’s not a problem unless you (general you) or your kids happen to be trapped in a place with a crazed spree killer. This is why so many Gen Zers want sensible gun laws. Sensible gun laws will have absolutely no impact on illegally acquired guns. I’m pretty sure the criminals, thugs and drug dealers (oh, and convicted arms dealers) are not acquiring their guns legally. The only people that sensible gun laws will affect are the people who buy them and use them legally for protection and hunting.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 11, 2022 1:16:49 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. My statement is based on multiple news stories of the prisoner exchange and on Anthony Blinkin's public statement. www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-on-cbs-news-livestream-with-margaret-brennan/The choice wasn’t between getting one American or the other back; it was – the choice before us was one or none. And the President decided that it was important to at least bring Brittney home now and continue to work on getting Paul back too. www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/09/brittney-griner-viktor-bout-paul-whelan/For months, State Department officials had advocated a swap involving Bout that would include the release of both Whelan and Griner, but Moscow refused unless the United States also secured the release of Vadim Krasikov, a former colonel from Russia’s internal spy agency, said officials familiar with the matter.
www.npr.org/2022/12/08/1141561990/paul-whelan-detained-russia-brittney-griner-releasedSenior administration officials told reporters on a conference call Thursday that Griner's release was secured after months of talks and a number of proposals that had also aimed to free Whelan — which Russia had refused.
"This was not a situation where we had a choice of which American to bring home," one official said on the call. "It was a choice between bringing home one particular American – Brittney Griner – or bringing home none."
www.nytimes.com/2022/12/09/us/politics/brittney-griner-prisoner-swap.htmlEither way, how Mr. Biden came to agree to a swap that freed Ms. Griner but not Mr. Whelan was a tale of feints and intrigue carried out through secret negotiations and public posturing, all against the backdrop of a brutal war in which American-armed Ukrainians were battling Russian invaders. At the end of the day, according to senior U.S. officials directly involved in the negotiations who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe delicate diplomacy, it left the president with the unpalatable choice of liberating one American while leaving another behind.
The outlines of a possible agreement were on the table as far back as last spring. Interacting through intelligence agencies, the Russians made clear that they were willing to trade Ms. Griner for Viktor Bout, a notorious Russian arms dealer arrested in Thailand in 2008 and serving a 25-year sentence in American prison. But they were not willing to include Mr. Whelan in the package deal.
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Post by Zee on Dec 11, 2022 1:25:30 GMT
You're the one who introduced this thought. It's almost like you're in favor of...gun control for Russians. 🤣 Though you don't live there and can't really judge their laws, right? 🤔 I'm sure Russians have more to fear from this man than we do. We have enough to worry about just going to the mall or the movies or getting gas. Nope!! Read my posts again. It was onelasttime who did. But nice try. "You are, apparently the one who seems concerned about Russia’s laws and whether they are just. But I am absolutely gobsmacked by the fact that you don’t seem upset that a terrible weapons dealer who was convicted of crimes against AMERICANS released. My prediction is that that move will cost American lives in the future." Nope, it was you, Twattalicious. "But nice try." 🤣
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,812
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Dec 11, 2022 1:43:51 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. So, YOU were in the room? No? Then how do you know that Biden didn't do everything in his power and the power of the US to get Whelan in return? And were you pissed when Trump had two years to get him home and didn't? From other links posted in this thread, Trump didn't even try to get him home.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 11, 2022 1:56:45 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. So, YOU were in the room? No? Then how do you know that Biden didn't do everything in his power and the power of the US to get Whelan in return? And were you pissed when Trump had two years to get him home and didn't? From other links posted in this thread, Trump didn't even try to get him home. You know who definitely wasn't there? Tucker Carlson. His own network says you can't believe what he says.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 11, 2022 3:10:43 GMT
Well, to be fair-or accurate-it’s not a problem unless you (general you) or your kids happen to be trapped in a place with a crazed spree killer. This is why so many Gen Zers want sensible gun laws. Sensible gun laws will have absolutely no impact on illegally acquired guns. I’m pretty sure the criminals, thugs and drug dealers (oh, and convicted arms dealers) are not acquiring their guns legally. The only people that sensible gun laws will affect are the people who buy them and use them legally for protection and hunting. True, but they WOULD have an effect on unhinged people who buy them legally and then go on a rampage.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 11, 2022 3:17:59 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. It has been widely reported that the Russians want an assassin imprisoned in Germany in exchange for Whelan. Even the NY Post, no friend of the Biden administration, says it. My suspicion is that this assassin did “jobs” for Putin. Do you doubt the news reports?
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 11, 2022 3:33:38 GMT
Well, to be fair-or accurate-it’s not a problem unless you (general you) or your kids happen to be trapped in a place with a crazed spree killer. This is why so many Gen Zers want sensible gun laws. Sensible gun laws will have absolutely no impact on illegally acquired guns. I’m pretty sure the criminals, thugs and drug dealers (oh, and convicted arms dealers) are not acquiring their guns legally. The only people that sensible gun laws will affect are the people who buy them and use them legally for protection and hunting. Who uses an AR-15 for hunting or protection? The majority of gun owners do support common sense gun safety like closing the loopholes for background checks, universal background checks, preventing people with mental illness from purchasing guns, banning bump stocks and raising the minimum age to purchase a gun to 21. www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/06/1103252636/many-gun-owners-are-hesitant-to-express-support-for-stricter-gun-control-measurewww.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/most-gun-owners-support-policies-aimed-at-reducing-gun-violenceGun safety laws will not stop all gun violence, but it will save lives. State laws regarding universal background checks, permit requirements and preventing people convicted of violent crimes from purchasing weapons have reduced the number gun related deaths. And the argument that we shouldn't enact laws because criminals won't follow them is an NRA talking point and ridiculous. We pass all kinds of laws from automobile safety to domestic violence, knowing that people will break the laws. But that doesn't stop us from passing laws for public safety and it shouldn't stop us from passing gun safety laws. Treating guns like we do alcohol or cars would be a sensible approach. Raise the minimum age, put restrictions on advertising i.e. prohibit targeting minors and remove gun manufacturer's immunity. www.bu.edu/articles/2019/state-gun-laws-that-reduce-gun-deaths/giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/other-laws-policies/gun-industry-immunity/www.americanprogress.org/article/fact-sheet-weak-gun-laws-are-driving-increases-in-violent-crime/
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Post by cindosha on Dec 11, 2022 23:48:18 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. It has been widely reported that the Russians want an assassin imprisoned in Germany in exchange for Whelan. Even the NY Post, no friend of the Biden administration, says it. My suspicion is that this assassin did “jobs” for Putin. Do you doubt the news reports?Every news report I read.
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Post by cindosha on Dec 12, 2022 0:04:35 GMT
Nope!! Read my posts again. It was onelasttime who did. But nice try. "You are, apparently the one who seems concerned about Russia’s laws and whether they are just. But I am absolutely gobsmacked by the fact that you don’t seem upset that a terrible weapons dealer who was convicted of crimes against AMERICANS released. My prediction is that that move will cost American lives in the future." Nope, it was you, Twattalicious. "But nice try." 🤣 cindosha Avatar cindosha UnstopPeable ***** Dec 8, 2022 at 9:00pm Quote onelasttime said:I’m kind of thinking the bigger threat to this country is not some arms dealer but angry white males who can legally buy AR-15s and then use school kids, or members of the gay community, or co-workers for target practice. Oh, FFS!! Find another topic. You assumed it was me. “Well Evelyn, you know what they say about assuming…when you assume, you’re just a bitch”. Courtney on Two and a Half Men. BTW…can I use twattalicious??? That’s a new one I have t heard before. I love it!! 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by Zee on Dec 12, 2022 0:21:41 GMT
"You are, apparently the one who seems concerned about Russia’s laws and whether they are just. But I am absolutely gobsmacked by the fact that you don’t seem upset that a terrible weapons dealer who was convicted of crimes against AMERICANS released. My prediction is that that move will cost American lives in the future." Nope, it was you, Twattalicious. "But nice try." 🤣 cindosha Avatar cindosha UnstopPeable ***** Dec 8, 2022 at 9:00pm Quote onelasttime said:I’m kind of thinking the bigger threat to this country is not some arms dealer but angry white males who can legally buy AR-15s and then use school kids, or members of the gay community, or co-workers for target practice. Oh, FFS!! Find another topic. You assumed it was me. “Well Evelyn, you know what they say about assuming…when you assume, you’re just a bitch”. Courtney on Two and a Half Men. BTW…can I use twattalicious??? That’s a new one I have t heard before. I love it!! 🤣🤣🤣 Of course you can use it! Be my guest 🤣 You're still wrong, but I'll forgive you because you have an awful lot of good points to ignore here including mine. As per the usj. 💃
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Post by Merge on Dec 12, 2022 0:54:14 GMT
Most gun crime is committed with guns stolen from people who bought them legally but failed to secure them. behindthebadge.com/a-new-survey-confirms-the-majority-of-guns-being-used-by-criminals-are-obtained-from-peoples-homes-and-cars/We have a few choices. We can make and enforce gun storage laws (basically, if a gun you bought is stolen and used in a crime because it was improperly secured, you are held accountable for that in some way) to incentivize proper storage, or we can make it more difficult for every Joe on the street to buy a gun and potentially leave it unsecured. Probably we need both these approaches. Both help to limit how many guns can fall into the hands of criminals.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 12, 2022 1:05:43 GMT
It has been widely reported that the Russians want an assassin imprisoned in Germany in exchange for Whelan. Even the NY Post, no friend of the Biden administration, says it. My suspicion is that this assassin did “jobs” for Putin. Do you doubt the news reports?Every news report I read. Seriously? You doubt all news reports? 😳
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Post by Merge on Dec 12, 2022 1:11:35 GMT
Every news report I read. Seriously? You doubt all news reports? 😳 That way she can make up the “truth” in her own head.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 12, 2022 1:18:30 GMT
Seriously? You doubt all news reports? 😳 That way she can make up the “truth” in her own head. I just don’t get it. I do get reading multiple sources, because that’s what I do. I assume that most people do, but maybe not? 🤷♀️ How can she think that they are all lying? I should have asked about conservative news sites. But I’m too tired tonight to argue.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 12, 2022 1:24:16 GMT
Interesting parallel going on here.
It has been said TSA averts their eyes and ignores pot, vapes or whatever it is we are talking about in this discussion. This is well known and acceptable (per Peas and I am foolish to expect they would do otherwise. Laws are disregarded and ignored and that is perfectly ok. In fact, it’s SO ok that it is ridiculous that anyone should expect they enforce a law they are tasked to enforce.
Then in the next breath…. More gun laws more gun laws, because, well…….. the guns being used for crimes tend to be illegally obtained and used. Or the messy flawed set of processes aren’t enough…. So more gun laws and more hoops for non-criminals.
It’s just a crazy endless loop here. The mental gymnastics of permissive for some people, absolutely destroying someone else for a differing opinion. How is it that it’s so hard to imagine how many people have been shot and killed moving simple marijuana (and other drugs.) How many children have grown up in poverty because one or more of their parents chose to deal marijuana while illegal and ended up incarcerated (whether it should be or not is beside the point.) Or not grown up because they got involved as a child. A choice was made. And the choice was to break the law.
Our laws (US), because that’s where Brittney Griner lives, say it is illegal to move drugs through a US airport. If she can be believed, whether or not she was made a pawn is irrelevant. She, by her own admission, had that product at a US airport, and fully planned to re-enter the US with it. For peas that don’t travel, there are a zillion warnings about what TSA does and doesn’t allow. Every step through the line. And the the consequences stand whether you packed your bag or someone else. That is the letter and I would have thought, the intent of the law.
So, I am curious… after all those words. If laws don’t matter and shouldn’t be enforced, why have them? That’s the difference between civilization and the wild Wild West. But you can’t have it both ways.
Bring her home, at the cost to the literal world and the safety of every American abroad. But she should serve, at a minimum, what the TSA says I’m subject to if I transport drugs. Whether you believe it to be or not, that’s what it’s classified today.
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Post by Merge on Dec 12, 2022 1:54:47 GMT
Interesting parallel going on here. It has been said TSA averts their eyes and ignores pot, vapes or whatever it is we are talking about in this discussion. This is well known and acceptable (per Peas and I am foolish to expect they would do otherwise. Laws are disregarded and ignored and that is perfectly ok. In fact, it’s SO ok that it is ridiculous that anyone should expect they enforce a law they are tasked to enforce. Then in the next breath…. More gun laws more gun laws, because, well…….. the guns being used for crimes tend to be illegally obtained and used. Or the messy flawed set of processes aren’t enough…. So more gun laws and more hoops for non-criminals. It’s just a crazy endless loop here. The mental gymnastics of permissive for some people, absolutely destroying someone else for a differing opinion. How is it that it’s so hard to imagine how many people have been shot and killed moving simple marijuana (and other drugs.) How many children have grown up in poverty because one or more of their parents chose to deal marijuana while illegal and ended up incarcerated (whether it should be or not is beside the point.) Or not grown up because they got involved as a child. A choice was made. And the choice was to break the law. Our laws (US), because that’s where Brittney Griner lives, say it is illegal to move drugs through a US airport. If she can be believed, whether or not she was made a pawn is irrelevant. She, by her own admission, had that product at a US airport, and fully planned to re-enter the US with it. For peas that don’t travel, there are a zillion warnings about what TSA does and doesn’t allow. Every step through the line. And the the consequences stand whether you packed your bag or someone else. That is the letter and I would have thought, the intent of the law. So, I am curious… after all those words. If laws don’t matter and shouldn’t be enforced, why have them? That’s the difference between civilization and the wild Wild West. But you can’t have it both ways. Bring her home, at the cost to the literal world and the safety of every American abroad. But she should serve, at a minimum, what the TSA says I’m subject to if I transport drugs. Whether you believe it to be or not, that’s what it’s classified today. I think most of us recognize at this point that many of our drug laws reflect the biases of an early time. Marijuana, in and of itself, doesn’t pose a health threat to individuals. Laws criminalizing it were often aimed at - let’s be honest - the people of color and counter-culturalists with whom it was originally most popular. It is now legal, either for medical or recreational use, in most states. Feds have sensibly realized that enforcing marijuana laws for those carrying personal use amounts is a waste of resources. Marijuana use is not a major health or safety problem for the US and many states have recognized this by legalizing it. On the other hand, gun crime is a major health and safety problem here. Those who say they are responsible gun owners should have no problem with being required to store them securely - as my husband does - in a gun safe. And since gun crime is a major health and safety problem here, then our laws around that need to be more stringent and better enforced. I don’t feel that’s a “have it both ways” argument. I feel it’s common sense. Your “at the cost to the world and the literal safety of every American abroad” argument is not really founded in fact, is it? I think it’s bit overwrought. Regardless, we have no legal basis for imprisoning that guy indefinitely. He was going to released eventually, in the next few years most likely. And then? To me, it’s wild to make the leap from understanding that there are a lot of laws various authorities don’t enforce for various reasons and advocacy of a “wild Wild West” mentality. It’s a bad-faith argument. There are 14 states where sodomy is still a crime. Is it your argument that we need to enforce those laws or we’re in the wild Wild West? I doubt it. So let’s be reasonable. ETA: I agree that we are and must remain a nation of laws, and those laws need to be upheld and equally applied. But we are also supposed to be a nation of justice. And throughout our history, people have recognized that sometimes we pass laws that are unjust, and that the wheels of the law move very slowly (while justice must still be upheld). Hopefully, our federal marijuana laws will change in the future. As they currently are, their justice is questionable.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 12, 2022 2:31:13 GMT
Gun rights advocates have many bad faith arguments. Enforce the laws we have or the only way to stop a bad guy is a good guy with a gun are just two of them. I hope Uvalde proved how wrong the latter is. Often, enforce the laws we have is a delaying tactic after a mass shooting when the push for gun safety is higher. There are plenty of loopholes in the current gun laws and some are just too watered down or ineffective. Let's update them, close those loopholes, pass federal laws for universal background checks, permits etc and at the same time, we can talk about how to better enforce them. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation, we can do both. In order to enforce them the ATF needs to be fully funded and fully staffed. Somehow we need to find a middle ground where the rights of gun owners are protected with reasonable restrictions. Just like there are restrictions on the first amendment, the 2nd amendment shouldn't be completely unrestricted, either.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 12, 2022 2:42:07 GMT
I guess I consider this a rhetorical question. Maybe you don’t…
Why is sodomy against the law in 14 states? Seems like doing away with those laws should be a priority? As long as they are on the books it’s a source of othering, making people feel wrong, a horrible mixed message at best, and making people simply trying to live their lives break laws.
Why are we ok with just- turning the other way, supporting turning the other way, or, probably worse, pretending it doesn’t matter?
Also, here you are again being superfluous, assuming the world agrees with you and your opinion is the *only* valid opinion ( ftr second time in this thread lol)
I’m guessing you didn’t grow up where I did. Or how I did. For the record it’s a rust belt state where marijuana isn’t legal. There have been 4 people under 30 that were shot and killed in the last 2 months and the only “drug” found was marijuana. I personally know people killed over it, still in jail for a lot of years, and several (and I do mean several) trails of children in foster care due to both parents being in jail for having (I’m serious) guns, money and pot. The combo is 9 children. I also know quite a few who are now grown up. What I want you to understand, all these people are not people I know of. They are people I have shared holidays with, shared FAMILY with. And the majority are white. Again? Why do we play around and leave laws on the books if they don’t represent popular opinion? (Given my experience.. I disagree that this isn’t a safety problem in parts of our country- and unlike you- it’s not a far off “I read Twitter and I believe.” I SEE IT. You can parrot “gosh darn it outsize affects people of color….” But you know what? “It” and these laws affect everyone. Stop marginalizing white people. Notice it affects them (assuming us too.)
Perhaps if you can convince other old crispy racist people (you do realize assuming this is a black or hispanic problem (=people of color) problem is racist. This affects all races (just like sodomy being on the books - again- great deflect) your friends might care a little more to make this stuff part of our history rather than expect TSA and law enforcement to turn their heads.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 12, 2022 2:51:01 GMT
Dang it- I forgot to say….
TSA signage says toting illegal substances (and guns and ammo) is illegal and has consequences.
Do you not think if Brittney Griner were forced to answer to those consequences (simple as $15,000…) all the money and press (oh- I mean concerned citizens) may actually focus on resolving this disconnect?
No such thing as bad press, right? Make it worthwhile.
Btw- Fogel was there first with no real efforts to resolve his situation. I wonder why they started with Brittney?
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Post by Merge on Dec 12, 2022 3:14:17 GMT
I guess I consider this a rhetorical question. Maybe you don’t… Why is sodomy against the law in 14 states? Seems like doing away with those laws should be a priority? As long as they are on the books it’s a source of othering, making people feel wrong, a horrible mixed message at best, and making people simply trying to live their lives break laws. Why are we ok with just- turning the other way, supporting turning the other way, or, probably worse, pretending it doesn’t matter? Also, here you are again being superfluous, assuming the world agrees with you and your opinion is the *only* valid opinion ( ftr second time in this thread lol) I’m guessing you didn’t grow up where I did. Or how I did. For the record it’s a rust belt state where marijuana isn’t legal. There have been 4 people under 30 that were shot and killed in the last 2 months and the only “drug” found was marijuana. I personally know people killed over it, still in jail for a lot of years, and several (and I do mean several) trails of children in foster care due to both parents being in jail for having (I’m serious) guns, money and pot. The combo is 9 children. I also know quite a few who are now grown up. What I want you to understand, all these people are not people I know of. They are people I have shared holidays with, shared FAMILY with. And the majority are white. Again? Why do we play around and leave laws on the books if they don’t represent popular opinion? (Given my experience.. I disagree that this isn’t a safety problem in parts of our country- and unlike you- it’s not a far off “I read Twitter and I believe.” I SEE IT. You can parrot “gosh darn it outsize affects people of color….” But you know what? “It” and these laws affect everyone. Stop marginalizing white people. Notice it affects them (assuming us too.) Perhaps if you can convince other old crispy racist people (you do realize assuming this is a black or hispanic problem (=people of color) problem is racist. This affects all races (just like sodomy being on the books - again- great deflect) your friends might care a little more to make this stuff part of our history rather than expect TSA and law enforcement to turn their heads. Question - was it marijuana that hurt the people you know, or was it the fact that we’ve criminalized its possession? Yes, doing away with the sodomy laws and other nonsensical laws should be a priority, but as a I said, the law often moves more slowly than our understanding of justice, and the people charged with enforcing the laws and upholding justice often don’t have control over what the law actually is. I don’t believe I suggested “the world” agrees with my opinion; however, polling consistently shows that a majority of Americans believe that marijuana should be legalized. I engaged with you because in another thread you seemed to understand nuance, but increasingly here, that doesn’t seem to be the case, so I’ll wish you a good evening.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 12, 2022 3:29:48 GMT
Yes, it was the choice to sell marijuana and other edibles/gummies/cartridges etc that were illegal in their state that put these folks I love in the place they are. Perhaps the laws should be different regarding the substance. But they aren’t and when people choose to skirt the law they tend to get caught up in “crimes in conjunction with felonies” etc. then it basically becomes a fish barrel shoot out. It is heartbreaking because the people are usually very young. Culture acts as if it is accepted and legal everywhere. It isn’t. That’s very irresponsible when it comes to young people.
Of the 4 that died in my home town in the last 2 months, 2 were my great nephews. Granted, big extended family on that branch, but they were young people with a lot ahead of them. The sons of two brothers. Ironically, didn’t know one another. Maybe if the national stage didn’t normalize it so much, they wouldn’t have been in a position where they were shot (in hopes) someone else wouldn’t get caught. They did.
Anyway- one thing we can agree on tonight, I wish you w goodnight. Sleep well.
Anyway, I promise you, I get nuance. But what I am not ok with us head in the sand. I don’t accept serendipity as a life philosophy. I am not ok with with accepting what is wrong- and just complaining about it.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 12, 2022 11:02:03 GMT
Interesting parallel going on here. It has been said TSA averts their eyes and ignores pot, vapes or whatever it is we are talking about in this discussion. This is well known and acceptable (per Peas and I am foolish to expect they would do otherwise. Laws are disregarded and ignored and that is perfectly ok. In fact, it’s SO ok that it is ridiculous that anyone should expect they enforce a law they are tasked to enforce. Then in the next breath…. More gun laws more gun laws, because, well…….. the guns being used for crimes tend to be illegally obtained and used. Or the messy flawed set of processes aren’t enough…. So more gun laws and more hoops for non-criminals. It’s just a crazy endless loop here. The mental gymnastics of permissive for some people, absolutely destroying someone else for a differing opinion. How is it that it’s so hard to imagine how many people have been shot and killed moving simple marijuana (and other drugs.) How many children have grown up in poverty because one or more of their parents chose to deal marijuana while illegal and ended up incarcerated (whether it should be or not is beside the point.) Or not grown up because they got involved as a child. A choice was made. And the choice was to break the law. Our laws (US), because that’s where Brittney Griner lives, say it is illegal to move drugs through a US airport. If she can be believed, whether or not she was made a pawn is irrelevant. She, by her own admission, had that product at a US airport, and fully planned to re-enter the US with it. For peas that don’t travel, there are a zillion warnings about what TSA does and doesn’t allow. Every step through the line. And the the consequences stand whether you packed your bag or someone else. That is the letter and I would have thought, the intent of the law. So, I am curious… after all those words. If laws don’t matter and shouldn’t be enforced, why have them? That’s the difference between civilization and the wild Wild West. But you can’t have it both ways. Bring her home, at the cost to the literal world and the safety of every American abroad. But she should serve, at a minimum, what the TSA says I’m subject to if I transport drugs. Whether you believe it to be or not, that’s what it’s classified today. I want to be sure that I understand your point. You think that now that she has been released from prison in Russia-a country that we are at odds with, and it is fair to say, cannot be trusted- that after being released and brought home, she should serve time in prison here? Does the TSA have evidence to present in court? Should she be prosecuted again-without evidence? How would that work?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 12, 2022 13:32:56 GMT
Interesting parallel going on here. It has been said TSA averts their eyes and ignores pot, vapes or whatever it is we are talking about in this discussion. This is well known and acceptable (per Peas and I am foolish to expect they would do otherwise. Laws are disregarded and ignored and that is perfectly ok. In fact, it’s SO ok that it is ridiculous that anyone should expect they enforce a law they are tasked to enforce. Then in the next breath…. More gun laws more gun laws, because, well…….. the guns being used for crimes tend to be illegally obtained and used. Or the messy flawed set of processes aren’t enough…. So more gun laws and more hoops for non-criminals. It’s just a crazy endless loop here. The mental gymnastics of permissive for some people, absolutely destroying someone else for a differing opinion. How is it that it’s so hard to imagine how many people have been shot and killed moving simple marijuana (and other drugs.) How many children have grown up in poverty because one or more of their parents chose to deal marijuana while illegal and ended up incarcerated (whether it should be or not is beside the point.) Or not grown up because they got involved as a child. A choice was made. And the choice was to break the law. Our laws (US), because that’s where Brittney Griner lives, say it is illegal to move drugs through a US airport. If she can be believed, whether or not she was made a pawn is irrelevant. She, by her own admission, had that product at a US airport, and fully planned to re-enter the US with it. For peas that don’t travel, there are a zillion warnings about what TSA does and doesn’t allow. Every step through the line. And the the consequences stand whether you packed your bag or someone else. That is the letter and I would have thought, the intent of the law. So, I am curious… after all those words. If laws don’t matter and shouldn’t be enforced, why have them? That’s the difference between civilization and the wild Wild West. But you can’t have it both ways. Bring her home, at the cost to the literal world and the safety of every American abroad. But she should serve, at a minimum, what the TSA says I’m subject to if I transport drugs. Whether you believe it to be or not, that’s what it’s classified today. You seem to be really fixated with the idea that BG should be in prison here. First, she didn’t break the law here. But even if she did, I again ask you what the consequence of that would be? Have you looked into that? You seem to forget that she was in prison for 10 months. I found this article that you may find helpful. It talks about the TSA protocol as well as some other cases in Russia where foreigners were found to have marijuana on them in the airport. www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2022/03/06/what-know-travel-marijuana-after-brittney-griner-arrest/9403700002/As for your relatives, it sounds like they knowingly broke the law. There is also a difference in consequence if someone is using vs selling, and there may have been other charges as well.
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Post by cindosha on Dec 12, 2022 15:46:31 GMT
I didn’t realize that you were in the room and part of the negotiating team. You seem to have the inside info on exactly what went on when they were picking and choosing. So, YOU were in the room? No? Then how do you know that Biden didn't do everything in his power and the power of the US to get Whelan in return? And were you pissed when Trump had two years to get him home and didn't? From other links posted in this thread, Trump didn't even try to get him home. Actually, Trump wouldn't trade the convicted arms dealer for Whelan. He refused to allow a convicted arms dealer who armed several cartels and extremists groups go free.
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Post by cindosha on Dec 12, 2022 15:52:59 GMT
Sensible gun laws will have absolutely no impact on illegally acquired guns. I’m pretty sure the criminals, thugs and drug dealers (oh, and convicted arms dealers) are not acquiring their guns legally. The only people that sensible gun laws will affect are the people who buy them and use them legally for protection and hunting. True, but they WOULD have an effect on unhinged people who buy them legally and then go on a rampage. The ratio between the millions of people who have their guns legally and don't become "unhinged" and go on a rampage and shoot/kill people is extraordinarily disproportionate to the number of criminals who get their guns illegally and don't even have to be unhinged to use them to shoot/kill people.
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Post by cindosha on Dec 12, 2022 15:59:10 GMT
cindosha Avatar cindosha UnstopPeable ***** Dec 8, 2022 at 9:00pm Quote onelasttime said:I’m kind of thinking the bigger threat to this country is not some arms dealer but angry white males who can legally buy AR-15s and then use school kids, or members of the gay community, or co-workers for target practice. Oh, FFS!! Find another topic. You assumed it was me. “Well Evelyn, you know what they say about assuming…when you assume, you’re just a bitch”. Courtney on Two and a Half Men. BTW…can I use twattalicious??? That’s a new one I have t heard before. I love it!! 🤣🤣🤣 Of course you can use it! Be my guest 🤣 You're still wrong, but I'll forgive you because you have an awful lot of good points to ignore here including mine. As per the usj. 💃 Thanks, love!! I called my husband twattalicious last night and we had a good laugh... What does usj mean? I tried looking it up but no go..
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Post by cindosha on Dec 12, 2022 16:01:21 GMT
Seriously? You doubt all news reports? 😳 That way she can make up the “truth” in her own head. That's quite the accusation.... Maybe you feel that all news is truth, but more and more, none of it is, no matter which source it comes from. So, yes, I question everything.
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Post by cindosha on Dec 12, 2022 16:22:24 GMT
Gun rights advocates have many bad faith arguments. Enforce the laws we have or the only way to stop a bad guy is a good guy with a gun are just two of them. I hope Uvalde proved how wrong the latter is. Often, enforce the laws we have is a delaying tactic after a mass shooting when the push for gun safety is higher. There are plenty of loopholes in the current gun laws and some are just too watered down or ineffective. Let's update them, close those loopholes, pass federal laws for universal background checks, permits etc and at the same time, we can talk about how to better enforce them. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation, we can do both. In order to enforce them the ATF needs to be fully funded and fully staffed. Somehow we need to find a middle ground where the rights of gun owners are protected with reasonable restrictions. Just like there are restrictions on the first amendment, the 2nd amendment shouldn't be completely unrestricted, either. Agreed!! But people need to stop assuming that it's all "angry white men" who are the ones doing all of the shooting/killing in this country. This country definitely needs to fix the background check system and find a way to monitor the underground gun dealing. And hopefully, someday, the police/citizens won't be afraid to step in and help people who are victims of gun crime and other crime for that matter. Maybe it should be a problem for people to videotape people being victimized and try to help the victims or interrupt the crimes instead.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 12, 2022 16:38:25 GMT
True, but they WOULD have an effect on unhinged people who buy them legally and then go on a rampage. The ratio between the millions of people who have their guns legally and don't become "unhinged" and go on a rampage and shoot/kill people is extraordinarily disproportionate to the number of criminals who get their guns illegally and don't even have to be unhinged to use them to shoot/kill people. FWIW, I am against illegal guns. If a lot of them are stolen, why not have stiff penalties for people who don’t secure their guns. Surely you are not saying that spree killings are not frequent enough to deal with by passing gun reforms. And numbers aside, an entire generation of kids have been scarred by gun rampages, esp in schools.
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