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Post by aj2hall on Jan 4, 2023 22:51:56 GMT
The Republicans are starting to criticize the 20 holdouts. And the Freedom caucus doesn't have any concrete, consistent demands. Under other circumstances, I might be happy to see the division, chaos and dysfunction of the Republican Party on full display. But, our democracy needs 2 functional parties. www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/04/us/house-speaker-voteRepresentative Don Bacon, Republican of Nebraska, expressed frustration with the holdouts, saying, “I don’t like being held hostage.” He noted that the group is not cohesive, and it keeps changing its demands on what concessions it would need.
Representative Dan Bishop, Republican of North Carolina, tells reporters that he does not know what he would want from McCarthy for him to switch his vote. He has not ruled out voting for a consensus candidate.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 4, 2023 22:56:25 GMT
Here's some info on Donalds, who the Freedom Caucus is currently supporting. I think they chose him purely as a reaction to the Democrats electing Jeffries. And I don't think they're serious about Donalds as a candidate, I think they will move on to someone else. www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/04/us/house-speaker-voteThe 20 Republicans opposing Representative Kevin McCarthy of California for the House speakership have coalesced, for now at least, around Representative Byron Donalds of Florida.
Mr. Donalds is a second-term House member — or would be if any House members had been sworn in. That makes him an unusual candidate for the job of speaker, which normally goes to more experienced legislators, though there is no formal requirement that a speaker have served in Congress for a certain length of time or even that they be a member.
Mr. Donalds, 44, worked in finance before being elected to the Florida House in 2016 and then to the U.S. House in 2020. He ran for Congress as a conservative ally of then-President Donald J. Trump, and was one of 147 Republicans who voted to reject the results of the 2020 presidential election.
In a 2021 interview with The New York Times, Mr. Donalds defended the Republicans’ passage of voting restrictions in many states, including Florida, and said he did not believe Mr. Trump’s rhetoric was connected to Trump supporters’ storming the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.
In nominating him at the start of the fourth vote on Wednesday, Representative Chip Roy of Texas noted that Mr. Donalds is Black and that this was the first time two Black candidates had been nominated for speaker. The Democratic nominee, Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, became the first Black leader of any party’s House caucus on Tuesday. There has never been a Black speaker.
But, in a nod to Republicans’ resistance to the idea of diversity as a goal in its own right, Mr. Roy quickly suggested that this did not really matter.
“We do not seek to judge people by the color of their skin, but rather the content of their character,” Mr. Roy said, paraphrasing the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. “Byron Donalds is a good man raised by a single mom who moved past adversity, became a Christian man at the age of 21 and has devoted his life to advancing the cause for his family and his country.”
Mr. Donalds has spoken before about that past adversity, including arrests more than 20 years ago for distribution of marijuana and bribery. He participated in a diversion program, and the marijuana charge was dismissed; the bribery charge was expunged.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 4, 2023 22:58:00 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 4, 2023 22:58:01 GMT
It doesn't look like the 8 pm vote will be any more productive than the previous 6. www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/04/us/house-speaker-voteI ran into Matt Gaetz and Tom Emmer, the House Majority Whip, in conversation in the halls as Gaetz was looking for Emmer’s office. When asked if he thought a speaker would be chosen today, Gaetz said no.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 4, 2023 23:02:08 GMT
And a little side note on the line of succession until a speaker is chosen in case anyone else is curious. www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/04/us/house-speaker-voteWhile we have no speaker, Patty Murray, who was elected Senate president pro tempore on Tuesday, would be second in line of succession after the vice president. Typically, the speaker of the House is second in line of succession.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 4, 2023 23:08:02 GMT
A little more on what the 20 holdouts are demanding www.nytimes.com/2023/01/04/us/politics/mccarthy-republicans-rebellion.htmlThe rebellion against Representative Kevin McCarthy of California and his bid for the speakership is rooted not just in personal animosity, but in a deeply ideological drive by a group of hard-right conservatives to defund, disrupt and dismantle the federal government, and overhaul the way Congress works to make it easier to do so.
The dissidents who have challenged Mr. McCarthy have pressed for a balanced federal budget — one that would not permit any deficit spending — as well as for special rules that would make it easier for lawmakers to zero out federal offices and fire government workers.
They also want to make it harder to secure earmarks that would direct federal money to individual projects. And the dissidents want to heavily fortify the border with Mexico, dismantle the Internal Revenue Service and replace federal income taxes with a consumption tax.
To further their policy goals, they have also long pushed for overhauling the way the House operates to allow individual rank-and-file lawmakers to have more influence on what legislation is considered. Conservatives have long griped about the top-down power structure that has flourished in the House since Newt Gingrich, a Republican and former speaker, took office in 1995 and sought to undercut efforts to negotiate deals and pass legislation.
While Mr. McCarthy had already pledged a series of changes designed to give rank-and-file lawmakers a greater say in the process, the far-right Republicans want commitments to embrace their policy agenda and give them powerful spots on congressional committees, things the California Republican has refused to do. They also wanted him to cease funding primary challengers in open Republican races, essentially promising not to try to knock out a right-wing conservative candidate with a more mainstream one, as he has often attempted to do.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 4, 2023 23:09:03 GMT
Just wondering- can the reps bring food/drink on the floor or do they have to go to an anteroom? Can they leave to go to the restroom? Is food delivered? Can they go to their office?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 4, 2023 23:12:45 GMT
They can go where they choose. In the circumstances they have to be careful of the actually numbers on the floor during the votes. I know I have seen water bottles in the floor. They may have snacks. There is a cafeteria in the Capitol
It seems the count is the majority of those present.
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Post by Gem Girl on Jan 4, 2023 23:19:04 GMT
Just wondering- can the reps bring food/drink on the floor or do they have to go to an anteroom? Can they leave to go to the restroom? Is food delivered? Can they go to their office? In the Senate, food and drinks are also prohibited, except for water, which Senate pages serve, and milk, which one senator is said to have specifically requested during a recent filibuster. Members of the House, however, aren’t allowed to enjoy a nice glass of milk. From Washingtonian magazine I've heard it said that milk is allowed because people with ulcers used to drink it as a treatment, but that may be an old wives' tale.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 4, 2023 23:22:16 GMT
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 4, 2023 23:23:41 GMT
He’s right.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 4, 2023 23:28:45 GMT
She’s a little upset. 😂
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 4, 2023 23:53:05 GMT
They can go where they choose. In the circumstances they have to be careful of the actually numbers on the floor during the votes. I know I have seen water bottles in the floor. They may have snacks. There is a cafeteria in the Capitol It seems the count is the majority of those present. Is the floor of the House considered in the balcony area? I saw that both Schiff and Pelosi on the last ballot did not answer their vote the first time, so where they not on the floor of the House, but still in the Capitol? Can they leave the Capitol, only during adjournment?
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 5, 2023 0:11:29 GMT
Great point! Is the 117th Congress still in charge until the 118th is sworn in?
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Post by epeanymous on Jan 5, 2023 0:23:52 GMT
It's such a microcosm of how they intend to govern (which is to say by not governing).
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 5, 2023 0:24:53 GMT
😀
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 5, 2023 0:26:46 GMT
Did someone drop this guy Kirk on his head?
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 5, 2023 1:04:05 GMT
I’m not a fan of Kevin McCarthy but if either this guy or Jim Jordan become Speaker of the House then the next two years will be bad for the Country.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 5, 2023 1:07:37 GMT
Today’s round 2 starts. 🍿
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 5, 2023 1:19:28 GMT
What a shit show. This is ridiculous.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 5, 2023 1:22:47 GMT
Where do these "talks" take place? Are the reps doing it in text messages, in between ballots, during the session during the day? Seems like a swarmy way to do things.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 5, 2023 1:25:59 GMT
Well that was short…
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 5, 2023 1:42:04 GMT
Two Democrats and two Republicans (not sure on this number) did not vote. My previous question above- where can Reps go during a voting session and why didn't they vote, especially, when the adjournment vote was electronic?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 5, 2023 2:49:21 GMT
Two Democrats and two Republicans (not sure on this number) did not vote. My previous question above- where can Reps go during a voting session and why didn't they vote, especially, when the adjournment vote was electronic? Truthfully, I don't know who didn't vote. They can go anywhere, including home across the country. It is certainly not a good idea right now, though.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 5, 2023 3:10:35 GMT
Two Democrats and two Republicans (not sure on this number) did not vote. My previous question above- where can Reps go during a voting session and why didn't they vote, especially, when the adjournment vote was electronic? Truthfully, I don't know who didn't vote. They can go anywhere, including home across the country. It is certainly not a good idea right now, though. My question is during voting, when the House is in session (well, not really, because we have no House) and calls for an adjournment for 3.5 hours, and folks know that there's a vote on the floor in that time frame, within 3.5 hours, why are the reps allowed to "go anywhere" when there's a vote on the floor. Where do the reps get to go? Out of state, home an hour away? The House will come back tomorrow at noon to debate. I realize they have other responsibilities in their queue, but it's the second day of Congress, and oh, my, they need a break after 4 hours of debating? I realize it's a strategy, but makes me question what happens in Congress, behind the scenes, etc., which makes me more aware of how things happen.
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Post by papersilly on Jan 5, 2023 3:17:06 GMT
McCarthy is so DESPERATE to be leader that he will wheel and deal himself to the point that he truly can't be trusted. At some point, his house of promises will collapse. You know what they say, you can please some of the people some of the time......
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,909
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 5, 2023 3:28:57 GMT
McCarthy is so DESPERATE to be leader that he will wheel and deal himself to the point that he truly can't be trusted. At some point, his house of promises will collapse. You know what they say, you can please some of the people some of the time...... Yes, but if you think about it... Who will/could be the Republican SOP? They are all swarmy. There's a minimal chance the Democrats could put up Jeffries as SOP, so what is the end game? The Republicans have the majority and will cripple the House of Reps as the United States of America if this continues and will be a major collapse of structure. Whoever is the Republican SOP, for the next 2 years in the House will be a shit show. But in my opinion, with no House SOP and this over and over ballot voting will be devastating if it continues, so I'm not sure what is worse. It's like another insurrection abolishing democracy, but on paper.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 5, 2023 5:09:06 GMT
McCarthy is so DESPERATE to be leader that he will wheel and deal himself to the point that he truly can't be trusted. At some point, his house of promises will collapse. You know what they say, you can please some of the people some of the time...... Yes, but if you think about it... Who will/could be the Republican SOP? They are all swarmy. There's a minimal chance the Democrats could put up Jeffries as SOP, so what is the end game? The Republicans have the majority and will cripple the House of Reps as the United States of America if this continues and will be a major collapse of structure. Whoever is the Republican SOP, for the next 2 years in the House will be a shit show. But in my opinion, with no House SOP and this over and over ballot voting will be devastating if it continues, so I'm not sure what is worse. It's like another insurrection abolishing democracy, but on paper. I think the major collapse is exactly their goal. They really are trying to weaken and dismantle the federal government. John Boehner really unloaded on the Tea Party, the freedom Caucus and Ted Cruz in his memoir. www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/02/john-boehner-book-memoir-excerpt-478506A lot of them wanted to blow up Washington. That’s why they thought they were elected. www.axios.com/2021/04/02/john-boehner-book-ted-cruz-fox-newsheathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-3-2023Politico’s Heidi Przybyla recalled that in his 2021 memoir, former Republican speaker John Boehner said of this faction: “What they’re really interested in is chaos.… They want to throw sand in the gears of the hated federal government until it fails and they’ve finally proved that it’s beyond saving.” And they are tied tightly to right-wing media: “Every time they vote down a bill, they get another invitation to go on Fox News or talk radio,” he said. “Its a narcissistic—and dangerous—feedback loop.”
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 5, 2023 5:16:13 GMT
And as long as they don't have a speaker, the Legislative Branch of the government stops functioning. www.nytimes.com/2023/01/04/us/politics/house-speaker-representatives.htmlLacking a Speaker, One Part of Government Ceases to Function
Lawmakers in the House have yet to be sworn in. They can’t help constituents or get classified briefings, much less hold hearings or pass laws. And at some point, they may have trouble getting paid.
Without a speaker, the United States House of Representatives essentially becomes a useless entity. Because none of its members can be sworn in until a speaker is chosen, there are no lawmakers to respond to an emergency or a crisis, only representatives-elect. With no rules adopted, the legislative process cannot move forward; no bills can be passed or resolutions adopted.
Lacking a speaker, the House cannot carry out its responsibility for oversight of the federal government or any other entity. The House cannot haul witnesses before committees, and those elected to serve cannot set up operations to help out their constituents.
Returning lawmakers have lost their security clearances to get private briefings from the military and the intelligence agencies because, having not been sworn in, they are not officially members of Congress.
“If there’s a real emergency, we couldn’t respond,” said Representative Jerrold Nadler, Democrat of New York. “Either the Republicans don’t understand that, or they do understand that and they don’t care. I don’t know which is worse, but it is a profound danger to the country as long as it lasts.”
“The House of Representatives isn’t essentially nonfunctional. It’s totally nonfunctional,” Mr. Nadler said.
But Mr. Connolly added that some of the Republicans causing the dysfunction are doing exactly what they came to Congress to do: blow things up.
“The extremism and dysfunctionality of the Republican caucus is coming home to roost,” he said.
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Post by papersilly on Jan 5, 2023 5:17:54 GMT
McCarthy is so DESPERATE to be leader that he will wheel and deal himself to the point that he truly can't be trusted. At some point, his house of promises will collapse. You know what they say, you can please some of the people some of the time...... Yes, but if you think about it... Who will/could be the Republican SOP? They are all swarmy. There's a minimal chance the Democrats could put up Jeffries as SOP, so what is the end game? The Republicans have the majority and will cripple the House of Reps as the United States of America if this continues and will be a major collapse of structure. Whoever is the Republican SOP, for the next 2 years in the House will be a shit show. But in my opinion, with no House SOP and this over and over ballot voting will be devastating if it continues, so I'm not sure what is worse. It's like another insurrection abolishing democracy, but on paper. In the end, he will be the lesser of all evils. I would be surprised if he clinches the votes tomorrow.
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