"if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?"

How about you pick another thread to read instead of hovering on this one telling people what to read and respond to?

As usual you don’t see the big picture. The right, including you with your large bolded letter, have been going on and on and on about every little misstep the President makes when it comes to words and remembering dates.  All the while ignoring trump when he does the same missteps along with the lies he tells.

Tonight alone he claimed he beat President Obama, at what I’m not sure, claimed he signed a VA bill that was signed by President Obama and claimed he won the East Coast states twice when in fact he didn’t.   But yet no on the right, including you,  calls him on this stuff.

And the perfect irony is in your laundry list of why Kamala Harris shouldn’t be president you list one reason that trump excels at.  Can you guess which one?

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weirdo

(Very long post, but can't be helped.)

Read the report.

Does Hur have sufficient evidence to charge Biden with a crime? No. Did he find evidence establishing intent to break the law? No. The truth is he's not prosecuting because he thinks some future jury would be sympathetic to a "well-meaning elderly man with poor memory." He is not prosecuting because he has no evidence of a crime and no evidence of intent to commit a crime.

How some future jury will think is irrelevant. Whether or not Biden recalls when Beau died is irrelevant. The job of a prosecutor is to charge when there’s evidence that can prove all elements of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Hur himself wrote he doesn’t have such. Many times (see below). Hur even contrasted the stark difference between Trump’s non-cooperation and criminal conduct vs Biden’s full cooperation!

Why Garland allowed this report to be published as is with the personal and irrelevant attacks against Biden is beyond me.

No one needs to believe me. Just read the report. These are Hur’s own words about the various documents that were found:

“In addition to this shortage of evidence, there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute.”

“Mr. Biden should have known that by reading his unfiltered notes about classified meetings in the Situation Room, he risked sharing classified information with his ghostwriter. But the evidence does not show that when Mr. Biden shared the specific passages with his ghostwriter, Mr. Biden knew the passages were classified and intended to share classified information.”

"Because we cannot prove that he knew the memo was classified when he left office, we cannot prove that retaining the memo, he willfully retained national defense information.”

“These facts do not support a conclusion that Mr. Biden willfully retained the marked classified documents in these binders."

“Three notebooks found in Mr. Biden’s Delaware home had marked classified documents placed inside them. One of these notebooks, labeled “Af/Pak 1,” is discussed in Chapter Six. For the other two, the evidence does not suggest either that Mr. Biden retained the classified documents inside them willfully, or that the documents contain national defense information.”

“For each of the marked classified documents found in Mr. Biden’s notebooks, we cannot prove that Mr. Biden knew about or intended to keep the document after he was vice president, or we cannot prove the document contains national defense information, or both. These documents do not support criminal charges against Mr. Biden.”

“While it is natural to assume that Mr. Biden put the Afghanistan documents in the box on purpose and that he knew they were there, there is in fact a shortage of evidence on these points."

“The evidence suggests that the marked classified documents found at the Penn Biden Center were sent and kept there by mistake.”

“In January, February, and June 2023, FBI agents identified and recovered just over a dozen marked classified documents in Mr. Biden’s Senate-era papers housed at the University of Delaware. Almost all of these documents predate the Senate’s establishment of rules for the tracking and handling of classified information. The evidence does not suggest that Mr. Biden willfully retained these documents. Rather, they appear to have been included in his large collection of Senate papers by mistake.”

“The evidence does not establish that Mr. Biden or anyone else knowingly removed or retained the classified documents found at the University of Delaware. These documents appear to have been included in his Senate papers by mistake.”

“No evidence suggests he knew these classified documents were within his massive collection of Senate papers. Further, given the age of the documents, we found no evidence that Mr. Biden personally viewed any of them while he was a member of the Senate."

“For these reasons, it is likely that the few classified documents found in Mr. Biden’s Senate papers were there by mistake.”

“There is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Biden intentionally retained the classified documents in the EYES ONLY envelope after his term as vice president or caused his staff to do so. Instead, the evidence supports an innocent explanation for the unauthorized retention of those documents.”

“In summary, the innocent explanation for the retention of the classified documents in the EYES ONLY envelope at the Penn Biden Center is not only plausible, it is a better explanation than one of willful retention. There is thus insufficient evidence to support charging Mr. Biden or anyone else with willful retention of the documents in the EYES ONLY envelope at the Penn Biden Center.”

“The evidence does not suggest that Mr. Biden willfully retained documents A1 or A2, which related to engagement with China in President Obama’s second term and a summary of meetings with foreign leaders during a United Nations General Assembly Week."

“There is insufficient evidence to show Mr. Biden willfully retained document A8 for many of the same reasons as documents A1 and A2."

“We conclude that the evidence does not establish that Mr. Biden willfully disclosed national defense information to Zwonitzer. This evidence shows that Mr. Biden disclosed classified information to Zwonitzer, who was not authorized to receive it. But the evidence falls short of proving that Mr. Biden did so willfully—that is, that he knew these notebook passages were classified and that he intended to share classified information with Zwonitzer.”

"As discussed in Chapter Eleven, we find the evidence as a whole insufficient to meet the government’s burden of proving that Mr. Biden willfully retained the Afghanistan documents in the Virginia home in 2017.”

“But another inference the evidence permits is that Mr. Biden returned the binder of classified material to the personal aide because, after leaving office, Mr. Biden did not intend to retain any marked classified documents."

“We expect Mr. Biden also to contend that the presence of classified information in what he viewed as his diary did not change his thinking. As a member of the exclusive club of former presidents and vice presidents, Mr. Biden will claim that he knew such officials kept diaries, and he knew or expected that those diaries-like Mr. Reagan’s-contained classified information. He also understood that former presidents and vice presidents took their diaries home upon leaving office, without being investigated or prosecuted for it. Thus, whatever McGrail now thinks of the matter, Mr. Biden will claim that it did not occur to him to store what he thought of as his personal diaries-which he held close for eight years-at the National Archives, and he certainly did not know that by failing to do so he committed a crime. Contemporaneous evidence from immediately after the vice presidency supports this defense."

“For other recovered classified documents, after a thorough investigation the decision to decline criminal charges was straightforward. The FBI recovered additional marked classified documents at the Penn Biden Center, elsewhere in Mr. Biden’s Delaware home, and in collections of his Senate papers at the University of Delaware, but the evidence suggests that Mr. Biden did not willfully retain these documents and that they could plausibly have been brought to these locations by mistake."

Possibly, they are probably the most active conservative posters, but I don't think so.  Their style of posts is very different.  

[br but why did all of them suddenly respond to my question of whether they were the same person as moobell was the only active participant to this thread

I agree to a certain extent but the report seems like it's worthy of its own thread and would just get lost in the Miscellaneous thread.

I'm guilty of arguing with morecowbell against my better judgement.  Sometimes, I struggle with letting a crazy or factually wrong statement stand and get sucked in. Sometimes, I'm just in a mood.  

But, you're right.  Arguing with her is pointless.

I think there's some kind of conservative bat signal.  Or, maybe they just send private messages?  The conservative posters seem to pop up in any political thread that's a hot topic.  

From NPR on President Biden's age and weaknesses. I think Biden knocked it out of the park when he gave that speech in Valley Forge. I was hoping we would see more of that President Biden. And I would like to see more of Biden's surrogates - Obama, Harris, Buttigieg etc. I'm not sure a negative campaign is the right approach, but we'll see.

www.npr.org/2024/02/10/1230591708/biden-age-special-counsel-report-classified-documents

But because more Americans are concerned with Biden's age and fitness to do the job in a second term than they are about Trump's age, every time Biden makes a flub it will have more resonance politically.

"It's certainly true that anything that feeds the master negative narrative is especially harmful," Begala said. "For [Bill] Clinton, it was cheating, for [George W.] Bush, it was 'dumb,' Obama 'elitist,' which is why when Obama said 57 states, it didn't hurt him. If it was Bush, it would have."

"Obviously with Biden, it's 'old.' So, this really really hurts him."

"Fair or not, this just amplified Biden's greatest challenge," David Axelrod, a former senior adviser in the Obama White House, said of the special counsel report. "It screams through every poll and focus group."

Axelrod went viral back in November for raising whether it was "wise" for Biden to run for reelection after a series of swing-state polls showed him losing to Trump.

"Many people have made a judgment about his age and command and discount his accomplishments and attribute every problem to it," Axelrod said.

That rankles the White House. Democrats don't have a clear idea about how to handle the Biden age question or how to package the oldest president in history as a candidate. He's not likely to do lots of live TV interviews or massive campaign rallies. And his age raises the stakes for every public appearance, like his State of the Union address in less than a month.

Certainly, the pandemic may have conditioned voters to not expect a candidate to do as many events and large rallies as in past elections. That could give the Biden team an opportunity to think creatively about playing to his strengths, in small groups, like when he went to a cookout in North Carolina and went viral.

Plus, the economic environment has gotten less dire, Biden is a recognizable brand, and, most importantly, he has an opponent who is, in many surveys, more disliked than Biden and facing much more serious legal troubles.

Not a revelation to voters, but a warning for the campaign
So with nine months to go until Election Day, it's doubtful that the Hur report and Biden's Mexico-Egypt flub was a turning point in the campaign.

"The president's age is not a surprise to anyone," said Joel Payne, a Democratic strategist and former aide to Hillary Clinton. "It's not a new data point. He was elected comfortably as a 77-year-old man four years ago. So, in many ways, it's baked in. People are not coming to Joe Biden seeking youthful vigor — he's been at an advanced age since he was elected vice president 16 years ago. The country turned to him in 2020 to lower the temperature and restore some normalcy, and that's happened broadly speaking."

Many Democrats would prefer someone else at the top of the ticket in 2024, and there's a deep Democratic bench of possibilities. But there's no sign that Biden is stepping aside because, frankly, he doesn't seem to want to.

The Biden campaign has stepped up attacks on Trump in recent weeks, but outside groups supporting him spent more than $50 million in 2023, mostly on ads touting Biden's accomplishments, like efforts to lower insulin prices, pass a child care tax credit and to push for renewable energy.

And his approval ratings have only gone down.

Biden was elected because of Trump (and his botched handling of the COVID pandemic). Begala said he hopes this week makes Biden and his team sharpen their focus and get fully into an anti-Trump campaign mode, because fundamentally, the frame of this election hasn't changed.

The question remains, what matters more: Biden's age or a dislike of Trump?

"It's got to be all about Trump," Begala said. "It's the only way. The only way is a wholeheartedly negative campaign."