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Post by mom on Jul 18, 2024 23:02:45 GMT
I would love to see Pete B but it has to be Harris. As much as I’d like to see her win she isn’t strong enough. Hell Hillary didn’t beat him. Same. I like Pete B a lot as well. There's been times I was frustrated with him, but I do think he wants to do a good job for our country. |
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Post by mom on Jul 18, 2024 23:03:53 GMT
I have not been in the camp that Biden needs to step aside but I expect the announcement to be made in the next few days. I think it will be Kamala and Josh Shapiro on the ticket. I heard a report in BBC (I think) that Pres Obama has said Biden should step aside? Is that being reported in the US? I’m sure it is. I haven't seen that yet, but it's all over that Nancy Pelosi has told him to step down so its not unimaginable that President Obama would tell him as well. |
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Post by mom on Jul 18, 2024 23:05:34 GMT
It couldn't be anyone but Kamala. Her name is next to Joe's on the campaign war chest. Anyone else would be fundraising from ground zero. I need for both parties to stop electing old, white men. There needs to be both age and term limits on President, VP, House, and Senate seats IMO. And required retirement age for SC and federal court justices.Yes. All of this as well as making anyone who wants to be Pres or VP (hell, lets make for justices as well) need a cognitive test yearly - with the results being public. |
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Post by mom on Jul 18, 2024 23:07:46 GMT
I think it's too late for anyone but Biden and Harris. I *do* think that Biden needs to retire, but that ship has most likely sailed. So Harris needs to start taking more control.
Can someone clarify though -- if Biden wins and then leaves office, Harris would move up. Then Mike Johnson is VP? Is that right?
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Post by hopemax on Jul 18, 2024 23:12:06 GMT
I think it's too late for anyone but Biden and Harris. I *do* think that Biden needs to retire, but that ship has most likely sailed. So Harris needs to start taking more control. Can someone clarify though -- if Biden wins and then leaves office, Harris would move up. Then Mike Johnson is VP? Is that right? No. The Speaker of the House is only elevated to President, if the VP spot is vacant at the time the President is removed or dies. If Biden wins, and leaves office Harris becomes President and submits her choice to Congress. It must pass both chambers. There was a time pre-Civil War where Congress refused to seat a new VP. Ford was elevated because Spiro Agnew resigned and he was chosen by Nixon to replace him. |
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Post by mom on Jul 18, 2024 23:14:24 GMT
I think it's too late for anyone but Biden and Harris. I *do* think that Biden needs to retire, but that ship has most likely sailed. So Harris needs to start taking more control. Can someone clarify though -- if Biden wins and then leaves office, Harris would move up. Then Mike Johnson is VP? Is that right? No. The Speaker of the House is only elevated to President, if the VP spot is vacant at the time the President is removed or dies. If Biden wins, and leaves office Harris becomes President and submits her choice to Congress. It must pass both chambers. There was a time pre-Civil War where Congress refused to seat a new VP. Ford was elevated because both Spiro Agnew and President Nixon resigned. Thats right. I was thinking there was another way it happened but couldn't recall and honestly, it been a long day and my brain felt like cobwebs. |
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Post by hopemax on Jul 18, 2024 23:15:34 GMT
I updated my timeline, btw. There was a gap between Agnew resigning and Nixon resigning. I blame not being alive at the time. Ford was chosen to be the new VP, not the Presidential line of succession.
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Post by hopemax on Jul 18, 2024 23:17:31 GMT
And for History buffs, this is all the times we didn't have a Vice President for a variety of reasons
James Madison from 1812-1813
James Madison from 1814-1817
Andrew Jackson from 1832-1833
John Tyler from 1841-1845*
Millard Fillmore from 1850-1853*
Franklin Pierce from 1853-1857
Andrew Johnson from 1865-1869*
Ulysses S. Grant from 1875-1877
Chester A. Arthur from 1881-1885*
Grover Cleveland from 1885-1889
William McKinley from 1899-1901
Theodore Roosevelt from 1901-1905
William H. Taft from 1912-1913
Calvin Coolidge from 1923-1925
Harry S. Truman from 1945-1949
Lyndon B. Johnson from 1963-1965
Richard Nixon from October 10 – December 6, 1973
Gerald Ford from August 9 – December 19, 1974
* – Served entire term without a Vice President
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Post by katlady on Jul 18, 2024 23:18:04 GMT
L.B.Johnson had no VP during the remainder of the term he inherited after Kennedy was assassinated. For his full second term, he had a VP.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 18, 2024 23:18:05 GMT
I saw a post today that said the fact that Democrats are talking about concerns with Biden and not just ignoring the problem like Republicans do, is actually a healthy thing. I would tend to agree with that, but at this time it just seems unhelpful when we are so close to an election with so much at stake.
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Post by lisae on Jul 18, 2024 23:35:16 GMT
NYTimes is reporting that Biden is coming around "to accept the idea that he may not be able to win in November and may have to drop out of the race." Someone close to him said he would endorse Harris for his replacement. They did caution that he has not made up his mind for sure about dropping out.
I think that if he does step aside he would choose her rather than leave the decision open. Time has drawn short and I think he also wants to preserve his legacy.
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ellen
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,805 
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Post by ellen on Jul 18, 2024 23:40:17 GMT
I saw a post today that said the fact that Democrats are talking about concerns with Biden and not just ignoring the problem like Republicans do, is actually a healthy thing. I would tend to agree with that, but at this time it just seems unhelpful when we are so close to an election with so much at stake. I have been a faithful listener of Pod Save America for a long time. I don’t know if I could have gotten through the Trump years without them. Right after the debate they were on board to replace Biden and I know that they really like Joe. I listened to their podcast to find out why they were feeling this way. They talked about how they attended an event where Biden was present prior to the new year and that he seemed fine. They went to the big fundraiser that George Clooney wrote about. They were shocked with his demeanor at the event. They talked about how their wives walked out feeling alarmed. At that time, they cut him some slack because they knew he had been traveling a lot with a very busy schedule. Then he acted the exact same way at the debate two weeks later. They feel that it is far riskier keeping him on the ticket and that we can choose a quality candidate. There is time right now. The Pod has received some heat for taking this position. One thing that I appreciate about them is that they don’t get too caught up on who is electable. You find out by holding elections. You present your case to the American voters and they decide. There is so much diversity in Democratic lawmakers that it makes me feel hopeful. I was talking to my 21 year old daughter about this tonight and she said that she would love to vote for Kamala. She feels like Kamala will fight to protect her rights. ETA - We love Joe though. This makes us very sad. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jul 18, 2024 23:52:24 GMT
I cannot remember where the articles I read quickly today were from, because I’ve had a crazy busy night and day. Anyway, one of them made a good case for Mark Kelly of Arizona as Kamala Harris's VP if she ends up the nominee. And bonus is that Arizona has a Democrat governor who would appoint his replacement.
The other article I quickly looked at talked about some poll that was done, with the presidential choices as Trump and an unnamed Democrat who is younger but qualified. And the poll results showed that in every crucial state the unnamed Democrat beat Trump. Trump wants to run against Biden because he knows he can beat him; some Republican being interviewed last night asserted that they WANT Biden on the ticket as Trump's opponent. My concerns have been that, although I and many other people will vote for any Dem on the ballot over Trump, a LOT of undecideds and swing voters will not. In that case, Trump wins and the House and Senate both end up in Republican control. And we are screwed then. IF Joe Biden had come back from the debate debacle looking strong and capable, I would be behind keeping him on the ticket. BUT, there is no way he looks like someone who can run a strong and active campaign. And that affects all the other Democrats on the ballots. I’ve come around to thinking Biden needs to step aside. And we cannot bypass Harris or we lose too many voters. Many of the people who will never vote for a woman or another black candidate are already going to vote for Trump. I've seen that thinking about Kelly too. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 19, 2024 1:23:04 GMT
I might be biased because I really like him, but I love this message - look for leaders with love. Regrettably, this country is not ready to vote for 2 women candidates nor is it ready to vote for 2 black candidates (Harris & Booker). Regardless of who is on the ticket, the Democrats need to focus on sending out Biden and his surrogates and having the media cover that instead of the drama about Biden being replaced. leaders with loveCory Booker. @corybooker
I was at the Republican National Convention yesterday. At the end of a press conference on behalf of the DNC and Biden campaign, I had some thoughts to share.
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 19, 2024 1:30:29 GMT
excellent point media & corporate greedMueller, She Wrote. @muellershewrote
Here's what I think is happening:
1. The media, with low ratings, saw blood in the water after the debate and ran with sensational and inaccurate headlines to generate profit. They have admitted this.
2. That, in turn, influenced big money dem donors who then threatened to pull their big money because the MEDIA was tanking some polls.
3. That, in turn, worried party leaders who need that big money to win because shitheads like Musk can donate $45M per month to trump thanks to Citizens United, and those dem leaders expressed their concern about losing that money.
4. That, in turn, caused the media - again with garbage ratings bleeding cash - to report that party leaders want Biden to step aside (not because they don't think he can do the job, but because other rich people were extorting them)
5. And that greed has led to the snowball effect we are seeing. It's all about money. Not democracy. The media and big donors are selling out democracy and the will of the voters over money.
Corporate media has failed us. |
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,117
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 19, 2024 2:46:42 GMT
PA Governor Josh Shapiro, California Governor Newsom, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear and Illinois Governor JB Pritzker. Andy Beshear has been my pick for months. Any Democrat who can be elected to statewide offices 3 times in KY is someone who can probably unite the Democrats and independents, especially in swing states. He was elected AG once and governor twice. He did a pretty good job handling COVID—well enough to get re-elected. He seems like an all-around good guy, and you know if there was any dirt on him, KY republicans would have been shouting it from the rooftops. That said, I also really like Josh Shapiro. |
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Post by peasapie on Jul 19, 2024 9:49:05 GMT
I might be biased, I really like him but I love this message - look for leaders with love. Regrettably, this country is not ready to vote for 2 women candidates nor is it ready to vote for 2 black candidates (Harris & Booker). Regardless of who is on the ticket, the Democrats need to focus on sending out Biden and his surrogates and having the media cover that instead of the drama about Biden being replaced.
What does this mean? |
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Post by sunshine on Jul 19, 2024 10:44:23 GMT
Who has the clout, behind the scenes of course, to pull this off? Who pushed for the early debate, with just enough time for a replacement before the DNC? Who has the arrogance to toss the will of the voters aside and hand pick the candidate of their own choosing? If Trump wins, you all can thank Obama.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 19, 2024 11:14:20 GMT
Who has the clout, behind the scenes of course, to pull this off? Who pushed for the early debate, with just enough time for a replacement before the DNC? Who has the arrogance to toss the will of the voters aside and hand pick the candidate of their own choosing? If Trump wins, you all can thank Obama. If Trump wins it is because of the idiots that vote for him. We shouldn’t even be in this position. His behavior and character should have been shunned back in 2015. It is so maddening that people can’t see him for what he is. |
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Post by sunshine on Jul 19, 2024 11:54:51 GMT
Hmmmm, I don't know.
Biden won the first time, I think he'd beat Trump a second time. It's the democrats (again, with clout from behind the scenes) saying he can't.
Maybe the people that didn't like Harris the first time, still won't vote for her. Maybe some democrats that were sold Biden was as strong as an ox and sharp as a tack feel played. Maybe the never-Trumpers/independents won't appreciate their votes being tossed in the trash for a hand picked, by a select few, candidate.
This isn't what saving our democracy looks like.
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Post by jill8909 on Jul 19, 2024 13:34:34 GMT
it's funny how we never debate whether Biden is, in fact, able to do the job. From what I've read, he's declining. He's got good days and bad days, good moments and bad moments within the same day. Anyone who has aged or knows someone, knows this isn't unusual.
I have friends older than Biden in much better shape and friends much younger in worse shape.
I don't think he is capable of being President for much longer if now. So who would be next?
Honestly, I think it is too late. Perhaps if immediately after the debate he withdrew there could have been enough Dem unity, but the party is so fractured, a loss in November is all but guaranteed.
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dawnnikol
Prolific Pea
'A life without books is a life not lived.' Jay Kristoff
Posts: 8,552
Sept 21, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Post by dawnnikol on Jul 19, 2024 13:46:16 GMT
We are not for sale.
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 19, 2024 14:46:54 GMT
I might be biased, I really like him but I love this message - look for leaders with love. Regrettably, this country is not ready to vote for 2 women candidates nor is it ready to vote for 2 black candidates (Harris & Booker). Regardless of who is on the ticket, the Democrats need to focus on sending out Biden and his surrogates and having the media cover that instead of the drama about Biden being replaced. leaders with loveCory Booker. @corybooker
I was at the Republican National Convention yesterday. At the end of a press conference on behalf of the DNC and Biden campaign, I had some thoughts to share.
Cory Booker is this totally corny sincere guy who normally I’d eyeroll but I have been saying for a while that I am at a political point where I would be so happy to have that as the presidential figurehead. I know there have been supposed complaints about how Democrats have no viable leaders, but I think it is the opposite. Democrats have a deep bench of experienced senators, popular governors, and even plausible cabinet members. It’s the Republicans who really just have Trump, and a bunch of weaklings who do whatever Trump says. |
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Post by jill8909 on Jul 19, 2024 15:00:25 GMT
a friend's relative works for Cory Booker and I have to say - he is one impressive. guy. He treats his staff like family. Very professional. Top notch
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 19, 2024 15:08:55 GMT
it's funny how we never debate whether Biden is, in fact, able to do the job. From what I've read, he's declining. He's got good days and bad days, good moments and bad moments within the same day. Anyone who has aged or knows someone, knows this isn't unusual. I have friends older than Biden in much better shape and friends much younger in worse shape. I don't think he is capable of being President for much longer if now. So who would be next? Honestly, I think it is too late. Perhaps if immediately after the debate he withdrew there could have been enough Dem unity, but the party is so fractured, a loss in November is all but guaranteed. We have a few threads about this so I’m not sure why you think we never debate whether or not Biden is able to do the job. |
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 19, 2024 15:52:33 GMT
it's funny how we never debate whether Biden is, in fact, able to do the job. From what I've read, he's declining. He's got good days and bad days, good moments and bad moments within the same day. Anyone who has aged or knows someone, knows this isn't unusual. I have friends older than Biden in much better shape and friends much younger in worse shape. I don't think he is capable of being President for much longer if now. So who would be next? Honestly, I think it is too late. Perhaps if immediately after the debate he withdrew there could have been enough Dem unity, but the party is so fractured, a loss in November is all but guaranteed. Who would be next would be the extremely well-qualified current vice president of the United States. If you ask me, the only reason Democrats don't lean into how well-qualified she is (she would not have been my pick originally, because I do not exactly have a prosecutorial mindset) is because they probably rightfully fear the racist and misogynistic backlash. I've already seen some right-wingers out there posting about how she is "DEI hire." It's such bullshit. I tell you what -- as a person from a similar background to JD Vance (father with a serious substance use disorder, poor and working-class family, first-generation college student) I know for a fact from working in admissions that they would have taken his background into account when deciding to admit him to elite educational institutions, and he obviously continues to dine out on it. No one is calling him a DEI hire. Wonder why. |
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Post by withapea on Jul 19, 2024 16:20:06 GMT
There’s no way that Biden stepping aside leads to anything other than more chaos. Let’s set up the Supreme Court to decide. That will surely work out for the best. /s
Who’s going to have the millions of dollars, lawyers and infrastructure to run a presidential campaign before mail ballots go out in Sept/Oct.? How does that person get on all the ballots?
Dems are determined to lose it for themselves. They never effing fight. They’re letting moneybags/media run the narrative and we’re literally handing over our freedoms to the evil Christo-Nazis pulling the strings of the top felon. And this time they’re prepared and have reinforcements. This is so damn serious. I’m gutted.
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Post by sunshine on Jul 19, 2024 17:04:57 GMT
There’s no way that Biden stepping aside leads to anything other than more chaos. Let’s set up the Supreme Court to decide. That will surely work out for the best. /s Who’s going to have the millions of dollars, lawyers and infrastructure to run a presidential campaign before mail ballots go out in Sept/Oct.? How does that person get on all the ballots? Dems are determined to lose it for themselves. They never effing fight. They’re letting moneybags/media run the narrative and we’re literally handing over our freedoms to the evil Christo-Nazis pulling the strings of the top felon. And this time they’re prepared and have reinforcements. This is so damn serious. I’m gutted. So why would the democrats sabotage their own? |
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 19, 2024 17:43:08 GMT
I didn't watch the entire video, it's nearly an hour long. However, if a progressive like AOC has concerns about replacing Biden, it definitely gives me pause. She makes a couple of good points. 1. Although Biden's debate performance was terrible, the debate didn't change voters' perceptions of Biden or Trump. What changed was the media, pundits, lobbyists, big donors etc 2. Republicans are already mounting challenges to anyone other than Biden/Harris on the ballot. If Biden steps down, those cases will likely end up at the Supreme Court. And it's entirely predictable how this conservative, unethical, partisan court will rule. 3. All the reporting about Democrats in secret talking about Biden stepping down - they should have the courage to say it and own it. 4. If Biden steps down, there is not a consensus that Harris should replace him. There is a lot of talk about removing both of them. 5. Democrats have raised $100 million for Biden that can only be transferred to Harris This one is really important 6. There is no safe option, there is no guarantee that Biden can win or alternatively that Harris/? could win AOC
This is a pretty detailed summary of what AOC said x.com/apeck422/status/1814298732323545598Last night @aoc did an IG Live re: the current moment. Whether you agree w/ her or not (or can’t share b/c of your job like me!), the way she talks about this moment + its stakes should be required viewing. If you don’t have 50 minutes to spare, here’s a summary:
The debate sucked. Biden sucked, Trump sucked and is a racist and neo-nazi. But she doesn’t think it changed what normal people already knew. What changed is the middle group between regular voters and people in power. The pundits, the media, etc.
If this was 6 months ago, 8 months ago, a year ago, this would be a different conversation. But a lot of the people in that middle group weren’t willing to have this conversation then.
There is a time for private and off the record comments. But if you’re gonna say as an elected official that you’ve resigned to Trump winning, leave your seat.
There are several reasons she’s come to the conclusion she has. First, the legal challenges in Ohio and other swing states with respect to getting a new name on the ballot are very serious.
Republicans are going to challenge EVERYTHING and there would be a serious possibility of the election being decided by the courts.
Next, people are underestimating what it takes to run a campaign and there isn’t consensus around Harris. A lot of people in the room don’t just wanna remove Biden and slot Harris in, but don’t have a plan.
If it’s a new nominee, money can’t be transferred. No one has come forward with a plan. And @repaoc doesn’t mean the pundits, she means the lawyers and legislators have not presented a plan about what’s possible. She has not seen a scenario that does not set us up for peril.
The convention is in a month and Michigan has to finalize their ballot two days after convention. If you have a bunch of nominees, you could blow past that deadline.
People who would want to be President don’t want to be shooed in like that 8 weeks before an election. @aoc: You think the election is in November? No it’s in 8 weeks - the convention is in a month and first early ballots go out a month after.
On polling, there is no safe option. She is upset by people who say we’re gonna lose. We’re not losing. “My community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July. We need to make decisions in the conditions we have before us.”
People underestimate Biden’s performance. That’s how he became President. People see where he’s weak electorally but they don’t see where he’s strong electorally. Whether you like it or not, Biden does great with older people electorally, one of the most consistent electorates.
**The mechanisms by which this decision is being made are concerning her. She is not here to tell anyone to change their view, but wants people to understand the considerations. We cannot allow these decisions to be made by groupthink, momentum, and inertia.
@aoc is not here to say that anyone is wrong with a capital W. But she’s very worried about this election being decided by Clarence Thomas and the Supreme Court.
If you’re falling out of a coconut tree, bless you, if you’re ridin with Biden, go for it. She is not an open convention person, she thinks that’s crazy.
“I have campaigned for the President not because I’m a campaign co-chair but because he is the nominee and the stakes are too high. We need to fight the courts, we’ve passed an insane amount of legislation. But there’s also a lot I disagree with - complexity is the job.” |
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 19, 2024 17:49:33 GMT
I might be biased, I really like him but I love this message - look for leaders with love. Regrettably, this country is not ready to vote for 2 women candidates nor is it ready to vote for 2 black candidates (Harris & Booker). Regardless of who is on the ticket, the Democrats need to focus on sending out Biden and his surrogates and having the media cover that instead of the drama about Biden being replaced.
What does this mean? I just think the Democrats need to focus on Bidens' accomplishments and talk about that. I wish the media would cover Democrats standing behind Biden, campaigning for him, giving speeches etc (like Corey Booker) as much as they cover pressure for Biden to step down The Democrats' convention is August 17-19. Regrettably, all we're going to hear for the next 4 weeks is talk about Biden stepping down eta - This is exactly what I wish the media would cover more of JeffriesChris D. Jackson @chrisdjackson
BREAKING: Leader Hakeem Jeffries
JoeBiden “is our nominee.”
“He’s one of the most accomplished American presidents in our history. “
“He has the vision… and the track record to make a case to the American people that will result in us being successful in November.”
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