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Post by aj2hall on Sept 4, 2024 23:10:58 GMT
gun violenceCongresswoman Jasmine Crockett
@repjasmine
No family should have to start their school year like this.
My heart breaks for the families and friends of those lost at Apalachee High School. While details are still emerging, we MUST address the crisis of gun violence robbing our children of their lives and futures.
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Post by Merge on Sept 4, 2024 23:18:31 GMT
There also simply weren’t as many guns sitting around people’s houses. Going to the range to shoot weapons of war wasn’t good family fun for most people. I grew up in a suburb that was 90% military families, and never once did I see a gun in any friend’s house or hear anyone talk about guns. The number of guns sold per person per year is six times higher now than it was in 1960, and about five times higher than it was in 2000 (when GenX had long since graduated). www.thetrace.org/2023/03/guns-america-data-atf-total/#:~:text=In%201960%2C%20some%201%2C130%20firearms,6%2C785%20guns%20per%20100%2C000%20people. Troubled kids in our generation came to school and started fights, or they skipped school and went out and got in trouble some other way. (My husband got mad and lit off bottle rockets in the hallway of his middle school.) They didn’t have easy access to semiautomatic rifles as so many do today and they didn’t live in a culture where guns are glorified both as super cool toys and as the way a man proves himself a man. Every underage school shooter ever got his gun at some point from an adult. Kids have guns because adults have more guns, and adults fetishize those guns. We’ve (sadly) hashed through this before. You and I are a similar age and clearly we had different upbringings. I grew up with guns in my parents house (not secure and loaded.) My Uncles’ homes, my grandparents homes. My friends homes. We DID go shooting regularly (at a minimum 3X a year to sight in different weapons.) I was a military brat, in the military and married to a guy in the military. Guns were everywhere. My dad bought me my first gun at 16. My sister too. They also bought my son his first gun (about 8yrs old.) Before anyone goes batty… we didn’t get to keep our guns in our personal possession until we moved out. And.. for the record, the gifted to my son was fired from time to time for target practice while supervised. To this day, I have it in my safe. He’s an adult now, and he still doesn’t have possession of it- I don’t think he’s all that interested. It isn’t taboo, and it isn’t exciting. I think my parents approach toward guns is a huge part of the problem. Not having them. Not teaching us how to use them. Not gifting them to us. My issue is 100% with having them not secured in their home (and many loaded) for the last 50 years. For the record…. None of us, my parents, siblings, extended family…. Not one person, has shot a person (other than in wartime situation.) We have also never encountered a firearm that managed to fire itself. It’s heartbreaking that far too many families are dealing with these tragic shootings. And we just keep talking around and around and around the problem. Banning anything, regardless of what scary name it is given isn’t going to change this. The guns aren’t the problem. The problem is hopelessness, despair, mental illness, emotional distress, violent culture, anger, fear, and a host of media and social media attention seeking behavior. Yeah, no. We can share anecdotes all day long, but the statistics don't lie. The US has a homicide rate up to six times that of our peer countries. We are the only one where mass shootings occur on a very regular basis, and the rise of them correlates strongly with the increased proliferation of guns among American families. Our peer countries have all the same social issues that we do, so that's clearly not the problem. It's the guns. We'd be fools to think otherwise. |
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 4, 2024 23:21:14 GMT
We had two kids shot to death at high schools in Seattle just last year (one inside the school, one in the parking lot of a second school at lunch time). It's so incredibly depressing that kids in this generation have grown up with a lifetime of worrying about this.
I don't think you should criminalize lousy parenting for the most part, but I really have come around to holding gun owners civilly and maybe criminally responsible for torts and crimes committed with their guns. I wish fewer people had them and carried them, and I wish our culture glorified violence a whole lot less.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 4, 2024 23:28:37 GMT
Looking at the big picture means recognizing that there are a lot of factors that come into play rather than seeing one FB comment and jumping to the conclusion that the only thing that made a difference in this kids decision to shoot people is his dad. It also means recognizing that we need to look at society as a whole-not just each shooter individually. There will not be a one and done solution to gun violence. There is not one law or a single explanation that can be changed that will eliminate all gun deaths. We can and should look at parenting style and I do think that is important. But going back to the "back when I was a kid..." there have always been bad parents. And you could probably say that there were more parents that were firm and condescending back a generation or two because that was seen as ok. But we didn't have the gun violence that we have now. Were there more fist fights? Maybe. I don't recall many when I was in HS but others say that there were in their schools. But now instead of a fist fight you have people pulling out guns. Heck, there was a dog fight at the dog park last week and one of the owners was threatening to come back and shoot everyone that was there. Someone is mad at getting a drink spilled on him at the bar? Come back with a gun. Someone feels threatened because someone turned into their driveway on accident? Shoot them with a gun. Someone bullies me or I feel lonely because I don't have friends? Make them feel the way I feel and bring out a gun.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 4, 2024 23:32:46 GMT
Sigh
As a hs teacher I just don't know what to say.
Guns are a problem
Mental health is a problem
Child upbringing and school policies are a problem
We haven't had our lockdown drill yet, but we know that if someone gets into our wing. Those of us on the 2nd floor are screwed. We will practice it some day this month. There have been multiple students in my career I worried about becoming a shooter.
I wish we knew what made the shooters decide to shoot and to pick that day to carry out their attack
My niece was in the common area of her school when a student started shooting and she ran for her life.
Phones are turned in in my classroom as they are in all classrooms in my school.
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Post by gryroagain on Sept 4, 2024 23:32:51 GMT
I just helped my partner clear out his parents house after they moved to assisted living. We found SO MANY LOADED GUNS. And his dad has Parkinson’s, so tremors. With loaded guns in every closet, cupboard, etc. They have a gun safe but 🤷♀️
His parents would adamantly say they are the responsible gun owners…and they are not. Everyone thinks they are. Statistically you or a loved one is being killed with that gun- not an intruder.
It’s madness. ITS GUNS
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Post by nightnurse on Sept 4, 2024 23:34:41 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 5, 2024 0:13:27 GMT
Authoritarian environment creates a
'I'll show you attitude'.
'so there'
'now you will know I'm big guy on campus'
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,069 
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Post by pinklady on Sept 5, 2024 0:31:13 GMT
Truth!
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Post by Merge on Sept 5, 2024 0:53:33 GMT
 Dad has guns, claims son (who was suspected of terroristic threats last year) doesn’t have “unsupervised access” to them. Clearly that was a lie. Will dad be charged? |
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,241
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 5, 2024 0:57:41 GMT
My dad bought me my first gun at 16. My sister too. They also bought my son his first gun (about 8yrs old.) What changed your dad’s mind between when you were a child and your son, where you were not deemed responsible enough to have your own gun until 16 yet your son was at 8? That seems to me like it actually reinforces what Merge said, about how gun/gun ownership is viewed differently now than it was when we were younger. Less care and consideration toward responsible ownership, and age appropriateness. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,273
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Post by pantsonfire on Sept 5, 2024 1:04:29 GMT
Dad has guns, claims son (who was suspected of terroristic threats last year) doesn’t have “unsupervised access” to them. Clearly that was a lie. Will dad be charged? Whoa. Oh my God. I hope his dad is. I hope his dad is tried for murder. |
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,241
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 5, 2024 1:07:20 GMT
Dad has guns, claims son (who was suspected of terroristic threats last year) doesn’t have “unsupervised access” to them. Clearly that was a lie. Will dad be charged? I fucking hope so. In the last month, here in Utah, there have been three incidents of children shooting themselves with their parent’s gun. Two of those children (5yo and 8yo) died. Only the third case, where a 3yo shot himself in the foot, resulted in charges against the parent. It’s ridiculous. |
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edie3
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,685
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Post by edie3 on Sept 5, 2024 1:17:42 GMT
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Sept 5, 2024 1:21:13 GMT
My dad bought me my first gun at 16. My sister too. They also bought my son his first gun (about 8yrs old.) What changed your dad’s mind between when you were a child and your son, where you were not deemed responsible enough to have your own gun until 16 yet your son was at 8? That seems to me like it actually reinforces what Merge said, about how gun/gun ownership is viewed differently now than it was when we were younger. Less care and consideration toward responsible ownership, and age appropriateness. I don’t know what you are getting at? My first gun (of my own, I’d been shooting his for years) was one I chose. It wasn’t a “rite of passage thing.” The one he bought for my son, at 8, was a child size (gasp!!!) that he taught him marksmanship with, at my house. I lived far away, and it wasn’t as if he traveled with long guns of an appropriate caliber to teach a child. So he purchased it local to me, so he could teach my son. Totally age appropriate and responsible. |
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Post by mom on Sept 5, 2024 2:03:58 GMT
Dad has guns, claims son (who was suspected of terroristic threats last year) doesn’t have “unsupervised access” to them. Clearly that was a lie. Will dad be charged? He should be. |
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Post by mom on Sept 5, 2024 3:02:13 GMT
Can you imagine the nightmare of sharing the same name and attending the same high school as the shooter? While there is a slight spelling difference, I bet the non-shooter is really hating his name right about now.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 5, 2024 4:57:34 GMT
Dad has guns, claims son (who was suspected of terroristic threats last year) doesn’t have “unsupervised access” to them. Clearly that was a lie. Will dad be charged? I fucking hope so. In the last month, here in Utah, there have been three incidents of children shooting themselves with their parent’s gun. Two of those children (5yo and 8yo) died. Only the third case, where a 3yo shot himself in the foot, resulted in charges against the parent. It’s ridiculous. Maybe LE thought deceased kids was punishment enough... |
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,241
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 5, 2024 4:58:28 GMT
What changed your dad’s mind between when you were a child and your son, where you were not deemed responsible enough to have your own gun until 16 yet your son was at 8? That seems to me like it actually reinforces what Merge said, about how gun/gun ownership is viewed differently now than it was when we were younger. Less care and consideration toward responsible ownership, and age appropriateness. I don’t know what you are getting at? It would seem that your dad didn’t consider you ready to own your own gun until the age of 16. However, he considered your son ready at the age of 8. I’m going off the assumption that you had a lot more experience with 16 years of shooting with him than your son had with 8. So why the difference? Did his attitude toward guns change in that 20ish years? Was it because your son is a boy, and you are a girl? Were you a careless or reckless child? Is it just a case of spoiling a grandchild more than you would with your own kids? Why did it change so drastically? |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 5, 2024 5:06:35 GMT
Can you imagine the nightmare of sharing the same name and attending the same high school as the shooter? While there is a slight spelling difference, I bet the non-shooter is really hating his name right about now. What have I missed with this? |
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edie3
Drama Llama
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Post by edie3 on Sept 5, 2024 11:55:37 GMT
When asked by a reporter "What can be done to help keep Georgia schools safer?" the governor of Georgia said "Now is not the day to talk about policy or safety. We need thought and prayers"
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 5, 2024 12:02:04 GMT
Can you imagine the nightmare of sharing the same name and attending the same high school as the shooter? While there is a slight spelling difference, I bet the non-shooter is really hating his name right about now. What have I missed with this? I just caught a little bit of the press conference but they said that there was another child in the same school with the same/similar name. Maybe Colton vs Colt or something like that. |
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Post by mom on Sept 5, 2024 12:17:46 GMT
What have I missed with this? I just caught a little bit of the press conference but they said that there was another child in the same school with the same/similar name. Maybe Colton vs Colt or something like that. Yes. One students name is Colton Gray and then the shooters name is Colt Grey. They've been very adamant that they are not the same student. |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Sept 5, 2024 13:01:40 GMT
I don’t know what you are getting at? It would seem that your dad didn’t consider you ready to own your own gun until the age of 16. However, he considered your son ready at the age of 8. I’m going off the assumption that you had a lot more experience with 16 years of shooting with him than your son had with 8. So why the difference? Did his attitude toward guns change in that 20ish years? Was it because your son is a boy, and you are a girl? Were you a careless or reckless child? Is it just a case of spoiling a grandchild more than you would with your own kids? Why did it change so drastically? You completely ignored everything else I wrote in both of my posts. It wasn’t a “rite of passage” nor did I (or my son for that matter) have control of the gun until adulthood without close parental supervision. I still have possession of my son’s gift, and he has no interest. I was in no way a careless or reckless child (or adult.) My father is a lot of things, but he treated his boys and girls and grands all the same. No attitude change. It was situational. You have picked small bits out of both my posts and tried really hard to twist something you want to sound different than it does or find something that isn’t there. I responded to Merge saying that exposure to guns wasn’t a big part of life growing up, and there is a (pure) correlation between number of guns manufactured and violence. There are a lot more people now. There is also a lot more other violent crime and violence due to drugs, mental illness, homelessness, hopelessness, despair. These numbers are also taking into account suicides as shooting deaths and that is not at all the same thing. I’m out of this convo with you. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Sept 5, 2024 13:12:15 GMT
What have I missed with this? I just caught a little bit of the press conference but they said that there was another child in the same school with the same/similar name. Maybe Colton vs Colt or something like that. Last night a mom was interviewed, she claimed a teacher came to get a student but it was the wrong one, and LE told her she was mistaken. I wonder if that was the incident? |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 5, 2024 13:16:17 GMT
I just caught a little bit of the press conference but they said that there was another child in the same school with the same/similar name. Maybe Colton vs Colt or something like that. Last night a mom was interviewed, she claimed a teacher came to get a student but it was the wrong one, and LE told her she was mistaken. I wonder if that was the incident? Hmmm. I’m not sure. I didn’t catch much of that interaction. I could hear a woman asking something in the background and the officer saying she was mistaken but wasn’t sure what she was referring to. Hopefully they will have more info today. It’s sad that people say “it could have been much worse” when four people did die.  |
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Post by Merge on Sept 5, 2024 13:44:12 GMT
I fucking hope so. In the last month, here in Utah, there have been three incidents of children shooting themselves with their parent’s gun. Two of those children (5yo and 8yo) died. Only the third case, where a 3yo shot himself in the foot, resulted in charges against the parent. It’s ridiculous. Maybe LE thought deceased kids was punishment enough... In no other situation is a parent whose child dies due to neglect or abuse let off the hook because “they’ve suffered enough.” Only with guns. If leaving guns where your minor child can access them isn’t a form of neglect, I don’t know what is. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Sept 5, 2024 15:08:04 GMT
Last night a mom was interviewed, she claimed a teacher came to get a student but it was the wrong one, and LE told her she was mistaken. I wonder if that was the incident? Hmmm. I’m not sure. I didn’t catch much of that interaction. I could hear a woman asking something in the background and the officer saying she was mistaken but wasn’t sure what she was referring to. Hopefully they will have more info today. It’s sad that people say “it could have been much worse” when four people did die. I also heard her asking in the background, and then later they interviewed her and she mentioned the same thing. I was shocked, I thought it was a reporter asking the questions, not just a mom! |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 5, 2024 15:09:34 GMT
Maybe LE thought deceased kids was punishment enough... In no other situation is a parent whose child dies due to neglect or abuse let off the hook because “they’ve suffered enough.” Only with guns. If leaving guns where your minor child can access them isn’t a form of neglect, I don’t know what is. Totally agree Merge, !! Absolutely Neglect!! |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 5, 2024 15:11:09 GMT
Hmmm. I’m not sure. I didn’t catch much of that interaction. I could hear a woman asking something in the background and the officer saying she was mistaken but wasn’t sure what she was referring to. Hopefully they will have more info today. It’s sad that people say “it could have been much worse” when four people did die. I also heard her asking in the background, and then later they interviewed her and she mentioned the same thing. I was shocked, I thought it was a reporter asking the questions, not just a mom! Yes, it was a mom and I think she was interviewed on CNN. |
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