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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 13, 2024 21:28:39 GMT
Yes! *** I have tried to explain that TFG said the undocumented are taking the Black, brown and Latino jobs. Who does he say will fill those jobs when the undocumented people are gone. You bet, the Blacks, brown and Latinos will be directed to fill those jobs, meat packing, stoop labor, ditch diggers,email jobs. They will be the chosen ones... Because some one does HAVE to fill those jobs. They DO need to be done!! Or, you know, poor black and brown children. Gotta do something with them when their public schools are closed. You are right. The states are loosening the child labor laws... So the kids could do them. However they really do need strong men. Kids can be the servers of alcohol.. |
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Post by mom2jnk on Nov 13, 2024 21:30:41 GMT
We've read that there will be increased detention camps built here in Texas. Whatever they do, they won't be rounding people up and dumping them over the border. They're going to put people in camps in south Texas for an indeterminate amount of time while they work everything out. Should be a real shitshow.  I think detention camps will be the first step. I wouldn't be surprised if an entire private, for profit industry is developed as part of the process.And what about recognized asylum seekers? They are not undocumented immigrants and cannot be deported under US and international law. Nor, just to be clear, are they lunatics and criminals making their way from asylums in their home country.  It's not just those coming over the southern border that have to worry. From June 2023:
THIS!! The value of GEO Group, a privately held prison company was up 41% immediately following the election, per a posting by Heather Cox Richardson. Another large prison company was up almost 30% in a day. There are a lot of disgusting people ready to make a ton of money in this sh*t show of an adminstration. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 13, 2024 21:38:43 GMT
I think detention camps will be the first step. I wouldn't be surprised if an entire private, for profit industry is developed as part of the process.And what about recognized asylum seekers? They are not undocumented immigrants and cannot be deported under US and international law. Nor, just to be clear, are they lunatics and criminals making their way from asylums in their home country. It's not just those coming over the southern border that have to worry. From June 2023:
THIS!! The value of GEO Group, a privately held prison company was up 41% immediately following the election, per a posting by Heather Cox Richardson. Another large prison company was up almost 30% in a day. There are a lot of disgusting people ready to make a ton of money in this sh*t show of an adminstration. YES ..There is already this private prison group doing his due... |
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 13, 2024 21:52:27 GMT
But where the person is legally allowed to be in USA, I doubt that their original country has to accept them back. 100% of deportations will involve a border crossing, whether by land, air, or sea - and the other country can surely refuse to let the transporter enter if there are people on board to are legally allowed to be in USA. How could USA (Trump!) force them to allow entry? Trump had to deal with that during his first administration. The US introduced visa sanctions on countries that failed to take back their own citizens under US deportation orders. In response, some government officials and their families were refused temporary business, pleasure and student visas for US visits. He also threatened to cut off aid in addition to sanctions on countries that wouldn't accept their citizens that were deported. I worry for my daughter in law. I feel for you and I know your concern is real. My DIL is half Mexican. I don’t think we really know. I think I mention it before but my conspiracy theory is that he is going to want to make the biggest impact in the shortest amount of time. I think that's a pretty good guess. This is not an answer but a suggestion. Make copies of her papers. Several in fact. Place them with several people where they will be safe. Treat it all the same as people keeping copies of passports for replacement as needed at home as well as traveling. Tell her not to panic if she should be stopped. I know hard!! Great advice. I can't wait to see the cost. Undocumented migrants cost NYC $10 billion in 2023. That's just one city. We have plenty more cities and communities in this country that are facing burdens they aren't prepared to shoulder because there are simply too many people that have flooded the border. I know they said 'criminals' first, but they apparently think anyone who is here 'illegally' IS a 'criminal'. It is a crime to break our laws. You break our national security laws by jumping the line and coming here or overstaying in any way that breaks those laws and you are a criminal by definition. I think the point is to put on a good show. they want to show mexican looking people forced into cars, into centers, etc It's more than just a show, but it's a good bet that it will be a show of resolve and strength. This country has enemies that continue to want to do us harm. People who have come into this country illegally have come from over160 different countries. It is racist to assume they all look Mexican. SELEE: It gives power to the U.S. government to hold people who are foreign nationals living in the United States. It is supposed to be designed for a time of war or intense conflict. The US is playing a significant backing roll in two different wars at the present time. The Democrats made a great hew and cry about the Russians interfering with our government for years. The Iranians have been exposed with plans to terrorize our citizens. That's probably not what you meant, although the reality is that more than 390 illegal aliens on the terrorist watchlist were apprehended. It's inconceivable that there weren't many more in the millions who dodged authorities coming in. The majority of the country voted last week to saying that we as a country are so overwhelmed with this massive influx of people that it has created intense conflict that must be dealt with immediately. It's not just those coming over the southern border that have to worry. From June 2023:
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has quietly published an overdue overstay report showing that more than 850,000 foreign visitors overstayed their authorized stay in FY2022, which is probably a record high. Yep. |
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Post by Linda on Nov 13, 2024 22:04:40 GMT
having been involved in a workplace raid by INS back in the 90s...where all of my coworkers (except the manager) were detained and I'm reasonably sure that the only reason I wasn't was because I'm white with an English accent not brown and spanish-speaking - carrying papers at all times is a very good idea.
EVEN if you're here legally (which I am), it's really scary to have INS agents in your face demanding proof and accusing you of being illegal...and more so if you don't actually have the papers on you. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm not in the habit of carrying my passport around with me day to day and it's my proof of US citizenship*. They were yelling at me to produce my green card or naturalisation papers (neither of which I have nor do I need as I'm a US citizen by birth). Thankfully they did call their supervisor and verify that the story I was telling them was at least plausible but again, would they have bothered if I wasn't white?
* I do have a US state dept record of birth overseas as well but...a surprising number of people refuse to accept that since it's "not a birth certificate from one of the 50 states"
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Post by katlady on Nov 13, 2024 22:27:39 GMT
It's not just those coming over the southern border that have to worry. From June 2023:
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has quietly published an overdue overstay report showing that more than 850,000 foreign visitors overstayed their authorized stay in FY2022, which is probably a record high. The country with the most overstay was Spain. It would be ironic if ICE is looking for Spanish-speaking people, and they end up rounding up white Europeans. |
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breetheflea
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Posts: 6,582 
Location: PNW
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Post by breetheflea on Nov 13, 2024 22:49:57 GMT
having been involved in a workplace raid by INS back in the 90s...where all of my coworkers (except the manager) were detained and I'm reasonably sure that the only reason I wasn't was because I'm white with an English accent not brown and spanish-speaking - carrying papers at all times is a very good idea. EVEN if you're here legally (which I am), it's really scary to have INS agents in your face demanding proof and accusing you of being illegal...and more so if you don't actually have the papers on you. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm not in the habit of carrying my passport around with me day to day and it's my proof of US citizenship*. They were yelling at me to produce my green card or naturalisation papers (neither of which I have nor do I need as I'm a US citizen by birth). Thankfully they did call their supervisor and verify that the story I was telling them was at least plausible but again, would they have bothered if I wasn't white? * I do have a US state dept record of birth overseas as well but...a surprising number of people refuse to accept that since it's "not a birth certificate from one of the 50 states" My MIL had to get a state legislator involved to renew her driver's license a few years ago because her birth certificate is in Polish and the state (of Oregon) threatened to deport her. She was adopted as a baby (by American military parents stationed in Germany after WW2.) She's probably not worried though because she voted for the unhinged orange oaf. Eye roll emoji. |
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Post by KiwiJo on Nov 13, 2024 22:58:08 GMT
leftturnonly - thanks for explaining about the sanctions Trump put in place last time, if countries refused to take back deportees. I hadn’t heard about that. I have no problem at all with people who are in a country illegally being sent back to their own country, and USA is not the only country where that happens. Many, many countries have illegal immigrants (or ‘overstayers’ as they are often called in New Zealand). Deporting them will inevitably leave big holes in the labour market, but I think that a government turning a blind eye to them is tantamount to condoning their being in the country illegally. However, I also believe that the immigration process should be clear, consistent, and transparent, and easy to navigate. Not necessarily easy to gain legal status of course, but easy to go through the process of applying. It seems that many in USA are very afraid that people there legally will/might also be rounded up and deported. I have no way of knowing if that is a realistic fear, but my goodness, surely anyone who thinks that is ok needs to closely examine their moral values. Deporting illegal immigrants is one thing, deporting legal immigrants is completely abhorrent.
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Post by Linda on Nov 13, 2024 23:03:58 GMT
breethefleaBack in 2000 I had to call the governors office in order to get Florida to issue me a state id FLDMV told me I needed a birth certificate from one of the fifty states or my naturalisation papers or no ID My state dept certificate wasn’t acceptable and they weren’t interested in my US passport either
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Nov 14, 2024 0:03:59 GMT
People who have come into this country illegally have come from over160 different countries. It is racist to assume they all look Mexican. You are completely right that people are here illegally from countries across the globe. But let's be realistic - the ones that are going to be targeted are the brown and black ones. I don't think anything on this thread is hyperbole. I hope to the core of my being that it is, and that this is all a big hubbub. I sincerely doubt it, though, not based upon anything that's been said by some of the Republicans now really coming into power. I would carry any and all documents at all times, and have multiple copies in multiple places for safekeeping. I don't support illegal immigration, but I do have a problem with witch hunts. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 14, 2024 0:22:47 GMT
People who have come into this country illegally have come from over160 different countries. It is racist to assume they all look Mexican. You are completely right that people are here illegally from countries across the globe. But let's be realistic - the ones that are going to be targeted are the brown and black ones. I don't think anything on this thread is hyperbole. I hope to the core of my being that it is, and that this is all a big hubbub. I sincerely doubt it, though, not based upon anything that's been said by some of the Republicans now really coming into power. I would carry any and all documents at all times, and have multiple copies in multiple places for safekeeping. I don't support illegal immigration, but I do have a problem with witch hunts. All of this. Also, it's not a coincidence that when Trump talked about Mexicans he called them rapists and murders. It's not a coincidence that Vance & Trump lied about Venezuelan gangs. And they lied about Haitian immigrants here legally. Immigrants might represent 160 countries, but when Trump, Vance and Miler talk about immigrants, they are not referring to white or European immigrants. They are not referring to Asian immigrants either. They are talking about Black and brown immigrants from shithole countries. In Trump's own words - They are vermin, they are poisoning the blood of our country. in Steven Miller's words - America is for America only. He is a white nationalist and radically anti-immigration. He has ties to far right nationalist anti-immigrant hate groups. He promoted a book about the destruction of the white world by brown refugees. The book refers to them as monsters, beasts, ants and centipedes, really dehumanizing language. He promotes the idea that Black and brown people are a threat to this country. Miller demonizes immigrants and talks about them "decimating" our country. He sent emails about the great replacement theory. leftturnonly - Don't pretend for a minute that any of Trump's immigration policies are aimed at white or European immigrants. Trump, Vance and Miller are specifically targeting black and brown immigrants. www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stephen-miller“It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero-tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law.” June 16, 2018, Miller’s response to criticism of the administration’s former “zero-tolerance” policy, also known as family separation
“The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive. Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? Do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders? Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it?” July 6, 2017, Remarks by President Trump to the People of Poland, drafted by Miller
“The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned.” Feb.12, 2017, Miller during an appearance on CBS’ Face the Nation
“It has never been easier in American history for illegal aliens to commit crimes of violence against Americans.” - Jan. 5, 2016, email with the subject line “off-the-record observation”
“[T]his is a good chance to expose that ridiculous statue of liberty myth. Poem has nothing to do with it … Indeed, two decades after poem was added, Coolidge shut down immigration.” - Sept. 13, 2015, Miller’s response to two Republican senators voicing their sympathy for refugees
“Like the mystics of old, the one sure way to get rich in modern America is to offer yourself up as a virtue signal to those seeking to prove themselves members in good standing of the national religion – diversity.” Nov. 23, 2015, Miller sarcastically referring to diversity as the United States’ “national religion”
The implementation of the Trump administration’s Muslim ban is another policy Miller played a fundamental role in creating. The policy, known formally as the “Protecting the Nation from Foreign Terrorist Entry into the United States,” banned entry of travelers from several majority-Muslim countries. The ban faced legal scrutiny upon release, and it was not until 18 months after its initial release, and three versions of it later, that the order withstood legal challenges.
Another administration policy Miller focused his anti-immigrant fervor on was President Trump’s decision to cancel the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program.In the trove of emails analyzed by Hatewatch, Miller vocalized a belief in the idea that DACA recipients would advance the reshaping of the U.S.’ demographics by replacing native born citizens.newrepublic.com/post/188254/trump-white-nationalist-stephen-miller-second-term-policyHe was the architect of Trump’s first Muslim travel ban and has been a vocal proponent of family separation at the U.S. border, as well as limiting citizenship for legal immigrants. During his time in Trump’s first term, leaked emails revealed that he promoted white nationalist articles and books, especially on the idea that non-white people are replacing white people.
Miller has also been on the front lines of other components of Trump’s agenda, including attacks on LGBTQ rights and abortion access. In May, Miller (under the helm of America First Legal) joined a legal effort by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton and several professors at the University of Texas at Austin that aimed to dismantle Title IX, arguing that the federal civil rights law—which protects against sexual or gender-based discrimination in education—violated the state’s “sovereign interest.”
www.npr.org/2020/08/24/905403716/hatemonger-paints-trump-advisor-stephen-miller-as-a-case-study-in-radicalizationGUERRERO: One of the first things that Stephen Miller did when he entered the White House was work on an executive order that established an office that was dedicated to the daily demonization of immigrants. It's called the Victims of Immigration and Crime Engagement - VOICE. And it essentially is tasked with issuing regular press releases about the crimes of immigrants. And, you know, from my conversations with White House officials, he would repeatedly push for including photos of immigrants who looked particularly, you know, it was scary. Like, he was obsessed with pointing out people's tattoos in photographs and trying to create this image that immigrants are committing crimes across our country and are very dangerous.
GROSS: And that they have gang tattoos?
GUERRERO: Yes, gang tattoos. He was obsessed with showing the gang tattoos.GROSS: Was Stephen Miller the architect of the family separation policy that separated children from their parents? GUERRERO: Stephen Miller was one of the primary advocates of this policy. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 14, 2024 0:26:05 GMT
having been involved in a workplace raid by INS back in the 90s...where all of my coworkers (except the manager) were detained and I'm reasonably sure that the only reason I wasn't was because I'm white with an English accent not brown and spanish-speaking - carrying papers at all times is a very good idea. EVEN if you're here legally (which I am), it's really scary to have INS agents in your face demanding proof and accusing you of being illegal...and more so if you don't actually have the papers on you. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm not in the habit of carrying my passport around with me day to day and it's my proof of US citizenship*. They were yelling at me to produce my green card or naturalisation papers (neither of which I have nor do I need as I'm a US citizen by birth). Thankfully they did call their supervisor and verify that the story I was telling them was at least plausible but again, would they have bothered if I wasn't white? * I do have a US state dept record of birth overseas as well but...a surprising number of people refuse to accept that since it's "not a birth certificate from one of the 50 states" My MIL had to get a state legislator involved to renew her driver's license a few years ago because her birth certificate is in Polish and the state (of Oregon) threatened to deport her. She was adopted as a baby (by American military parents stationed in Germany after WW2.) She's probably not worried though because she voted for the unhinged orange oaf. Eye roll emoji. A carpenter who worked for my parents was born in Poland. Not only is his birth certificate in Polish, it was issued by the Catholic Church, not the government. It was a major hassle when he needed to renew his driver's license. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 14, 2024 0:32:24 GMT
Whatever they do, it's going to be really bad. Families will be separated and people here legally are going to get caught up in their witch hunts. They're going to keep pushing the false narratives that they are criminals, they're taking housing from veterans and American born citizens etc This is another of Trump's advisors www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/11/12/congress/carlos-trujillo-trump-immigration-deportations-agenda-00189037So obviously, the price tag, I think it’s less expensive to deport people who are in this country illegally — committing crimes — than it is to keep them.
I worked with Stephen in the first Trump administration. Tom Homan has a spectacular reputation. And both are people who were very, very effective in curbing illegal migration.
Stephen was essential in negotiating the “safe third country” agreements, the “Remain in Mexico” policy —
Let’s start with the 13,000 murderers; I think that’s a pretty good number of people we want to get out. There are over 600,000 people who have [had contact with] law enforcement or have criminal records in this country. I think, obviously, the mass deportations should focus on those who are the most dangerous and most violent and pose the most risk to our country.
There are entire hotels dedicated to migrant staffing across this country. There are veterans who are being displaced from their houses. I’m not sure the narrative of “we’re going to separate children” is really an accurate narrative.
Finishing the wall is very important, but I also think it’s important to focus on all the great policies that the Trump administration advanced in the first term, including the “safe third country agreements,” “Remain in Mexico” and Title 42 expulsions. Those are all important things I’m sure will be implemented in some shape or form [again] to deal with the migratory crisis.
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Post by Merge on Nov 14, 2024 0:32:46 GMT
I think detention camps will be the first step. I wouldn't be surprised if an entire private, for profit industry is developed as part of the process.And what about recognized asylum seekers? They are not undocumented immigrants and cannot be deported under US and international law. Nor, just to be clear, are they lunatics and criminals making their way from asylums in their home country. It's not just those coming over the southern border that have to worry. From June 2023:
THIS!! The value of GEO Group, a privately held prison company was up 41% immediately following the election, per a posting by Heather Cox Richardson. Another large prison company was up almost 30% in a day. There are a lot of disgusting people ready to make a ton of money in this sh*t show of an adminstration. Speculation online is that the new "Department of Government Efficiency" overseen by Elmo and Vivek will primarily work to tease out chunks of government work that can be done by private contractors, thus allowing more rich people to profit of our tax dollars. Prisons have certainly been one egregious example of that. |
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Nov 14, 2024 0:35:08 GMT
I also completely agree with what Linda has said here. I fear that having papers showing you're here legally may not make much difference in some cases. There are way too many people who don't understand that there are completely legal alternatives to the most common documents, as she pointed out. I had a hard time getting my DD registered for a SSN. She was adopted, and we presented the adoption paperwork, the birth certificate, and whatever else may have been required. For some crazy ass reason, the worker wanted documentation from DD's pediatrician that she was 7 months old (her age at the time). I explained that the ped hadn't been at her birth, so the worker made us go get a letter from the ped saying DD's growth was consistent with that of a 7 month old child and he had no reason to think she was anything else. OK... So I come back with said letter, and everything is going just fine, until we get to city of birth. She was born at a military base within a US state, I'll call it Fort X, and that's what it says on her birth certificate. The worker refused to believe that Fort X was a city/acceptable location and argued with me until I asked for a supervisor. Supervisor also argued. Had to go one more level up and finally got the person in charge who looked at them like they were idiots and told them to put in Fort X as the city of birth. (Interestingly, I had no problem at all getting a SSN for DS, who was also adopted though not born at a military base.) So yes. People can be dumb, especially among the rank and file, and they can be willfully dumb as well, which is what I particularly fear with the immigration issue. I dread that it may end up being "Lock them up first, ask questions later. Maybe." |
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Post by Merge on Nov 14, 2024 0:50:49 GMT
I can't wait to see the cost. Undocumented migrants cost NYC $10 billion in 2023. That's just one city. We have plenty more cities and communities in this country that are facing burdens they aren't prepared to shoulder because there are simply too many people that have flooded the border. Rep. Esposito seems to have left off the citation for that data, but I found the NYPost article he's referencing. They're talking about a report from conservative (their words) Federation for American Immigration Reform. I found the actual report here: www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2023-03/Fiscal%20Burden%20of%20Illegal%20Immigration%20on%20American%20Taxpayers%202023%20WEB_0.pdf. I will have to leave it to others to determine if the methods of research here are sound, but I noticed that the citations used a lot of words like "assumed" and "estimated," which always makes me a bit nervous. Conversely, the nonpartisan group Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy reported a few months ago that illegal immigrants in NYC contribute $3B to the economy in taxes alone. That doesn't count the money they spend, which also boosts our economy, and the productivity they add, which again, boosts our economy. They also point out that if these working immigrants were granted work authorizations, they would generate even more revenue (and wouldn't be so easily exploited as they wouldn't have to worry about being found out and deported if they complain). www.nyic.org/2024/07/new-report-undocumented-immigrant-new-yorkers-contribute-3-billion-in-taxes-which-would-increase-with-work-authorizations/#:~:text=FACT%3A%20Undocumented%20immigrant%20New%20Yorkers,to%20New%20York%20State's%20economy. I wasn't able to find a recent study on the net effect of undocumented immigrants on the economy in NYC, though when similar studies have been run in Texas, it's clear that these immigrants have a net positive effect on the Texas economy, and summarily removing them would be an economic disaster. All that to say - counting only the expense of getting these immigrants on their feet, whether done reliably or not, is a very incomplete picture of a complex issue. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 14, 2024 1:21:44 GMT
More on Miller and Homan. They are absolutely horrible, deplorable , despicable people. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/11/trump-prepares-immigration-crackdown-with-miller-homan-posts/Miller has suggested supplementing ICE resources with military planes and National Guard troops, including sending troops from Republican-governed states into neighboring states with Democratic governors. He proposed adding detention space by using tents or “camps.”
“If those orders aren’t executed or carried out, then what the hell are we doing?” Homan said. “Nothing in immigration law says you need to commit a very serious criminal offense to be removed from the country.”
Trump has signaled that he would use the military to help ICE deport immigrants but Homan said the military would be likely to provide services such as transportation but not make arrests. Homan also said the administration could build more soft-sided facilities to house immigrants, similar to the ones the Biden administration is using now, and not camps, as some have said.
Homan stepped down in 2018 as Trump ended the family separation policy in response to public outcry over visuals of children in detention and audio of children wailing. Trump has declined to rule out the policy in a second term. On Monday, Homan said he favors deporting families together and said detaining families is currently not under discussion.
In the past, Homan defended the policy, saying “it worked,” and blaming parents for putting their families in the situation.
“I’m sick and tired hearing about the family separation. … Bottom line is, we enforced the law,” he said at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in 2023.
Both Homan and Miller were involved in Project 2025 |
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by huskergal on Nov 14, 2024 3:48:54 GMT
Cost to deport is a conservative $315 billion. Source |
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TXMary
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And so many nights I just dream of the ocean. God, I wish I was sailin' again.
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Post by TXMary on Nov 14, 2024 3:59:13 GMT
I worry about my nephew's husband. He’s as American as I am and so are his parents. But his father is Hispanic. They live in the valley in South Texas. My nephew told me recently when they visit there they take their passports just in case. He said when his husband goes by himself to visit his parents, he’s often pulled aside and questioned. He’s an American citizen and so are his parents and family. I don’t think the Trump administration will care.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 14, 2024 13:56:48 GMT
My goodness, even someone who marries an American citizen can't get a quick immigration turnaround? I'm curious if the same applies to your son in Mexico - does he get a travel visa or is something else in play since they're married. With regards to the OP, nobody knows how all this is going to work. They say criminals first, but of course those who have committed crimes in the US are often already in our prisons. Will they deport them directly from prison rather than having them finish their sentence? Who knows. I also heard Stephen Miller mention workplace raids as part of their first sweep. So gross. We've read that there will be increased detention camps built here in Texas. Whatever they do, they won't be rounding people up and dumping them over the border. They're going to put people in camps in south Texas for an indeterminate amount of time while they work everything out. Should be a real shitshow. The thought of alllll this makes me sick. These are human beings who are mostly here to make a better life for themselves. There are not 20 million criminals here like the right likes to rant about. I really wish that instead of putting billions of dollars into getting rid of immigrants we could put that time and effort into making it easier for those who truly want to come here and work for a better life to be able to do that. Because that is the majority of people who come here. They aren't coming because they heard that you can get free Nike's and food gift cards. I know someone who works with immigrants, some here illegally, and she said they do everything they can to lay low. They surely don't vote or get free healthcare or anything else. I hate so many people right now. nobody said that I really wish that instead of putting billions of dollars into getting rid of immigrants we could put that time and effort into making it easier for those who truly want to come here and work for a better life to be able to do that.the majority of people are fine with this...IF they come through the proper ports of entry and go through the proper channels to be here legally They aren't coming because they heard that you can get free Nike's and food gift cards.oh yes they were...it was a complete free-for-all these last 3.5 years if you consider that there are currently about 20 million undocumented illegals in the US up to now, and 10+ million have come over in bidens administration alone. That's half in the last 3.5 years... |
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compeateropeator
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Post by compeateropeator on Nov 14, 2024 14:27:13 GMT
This may be your opinion (about the ‘free for all’) but there are other opinions also. There are a lot more people and families trying to get in because there are a lot more people in the rest of the world who are starving and dying and trying to save their families…not any conspiracy theory about Biden. Any undocumented worker I know of is not getting free things from our government. They are trying to fly under the radar and are working at your family farm, who would be failing faster than they are because they can not get help. It is a very hard and rigorous job and most American’s don’t seem to think that it is worth doing for what a small business can pay.
I believe that those people/families that are getting any assistance wouldn’t be undocumented because it would mean they went through the process of asking for asylum, which means they are not truly undocumented. Why would we not try to help these people become part of the actual economy of our country filling positions that can’t be filled.
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 14, 2024 14:36:49 GMT
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Post by Merge on Nov 14, 2024 14:45:27 GMT
The thought of alllll this makes me sick. These are human beings who are mostly here to make a better life for themselves. There are not 20 million criminals here like the right likes to rant about. I really wish that instead of putting billions of dollars into getting rid of immigrants we could put that time and effort into making it easier for those who truly want to come here and work for a better life to be able to do that. Because that is the majority of people who come here. They aren't coming because they heard that you can get free Nike's and food gift cards. I know someone who works with immigrants, some here illegally, and she said they do everything they can to lay low. They surely don't vote or get free healthcare or anything else. I hate so many people right now. nobody said that I really wish that instead of putting billions of dollars into getting rid of immigrants we could put that time and effort into making it easier for those who truly want to come here and work for a better life to be able to do that.the majority of people are fine with this...IF they come through the proper ports of entry and go through the proper channels to be here legally They aren't coming because they heard that you can get free Nike's and food gift cards.oh yes they were...it was a complete free-for-all these last 3.5 years if you consider that there are currently about 20 million undocumented illegals in the US up to now, and 10+ million have come over in bidens administration alone. That's half in the last 3.5 years... Nothing that you just posted is true. 1. YOU said initially that there were 20 million criminal illegal aliens let in by Biden alone. When I pointed out to you that there aren't even 20 million illegal immigrants of any kind in the US, you claimed you were "over-exaggerating." 2. Applying for asylum is going through the proper channels. Yet those are the people you and Trump want to turn away or deport. For unskilled workers who don't qualify for asylum, there is no reasonable proper channel for most of them to come here despite the fact that we dangle the carrot of jobs that need to be filled. Would you support an expanded guest worker program? Keep in mind that (a) we need the workers and (b) as many are leaving grinding poverty, in order to get the workers productive, we will have to help them get on their feet. That may include things like a decent pair of shoes or some money to buy food and necessities. I guarantee you no one is making the long, dangerous journey north just for the promise of Nikes and a gift card. 3. There are still not 20 million undocumented immigrants here. The closer estimate is 11 million. Which precludes any possibility of 10 million arriving during the Biden administration. We've been over this already and I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you'd stop telling lies. www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/06/12/politifact-how-many-undocumented-immigrants-live-in-the-u-s/74047477007/www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/USThe border is no more porous now than it was before. Believe it or not, the numbers of immigrants that show up here increase in relation to worsening conditions in their own countries, not because of who is president. Most would rather not leave their homes and families and move to a country that is hostile to them. When numbers increase, it's because things are bad in central and south America. Kamala Harris helped reduce the flow of immigrants here by partnering with private companies (not using tax dollars) to increase opportunity in Venezuela and other hot spots. That's the most rational and effective way to stem undocumented immigration. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 14, 2024 14:50:27 GMT
This may be your opinion (about the ‘free for all’) but there are other opinions also. There are a lot more people and families trying to get in because there are a lot more people in the rest of the world who are starving and dying and trying to save their families…not any conspiracy theory about Biden. Any undocumented worker I know of is not getting free things from our government. They are trying to fly under the radar and are working at your family farm, who would be failing faster than they are because they can not get help. It is a very hard and rigorous job and most American’s don’t seem to think that it is worth doing for what a small business can pay. I believe that those people/families that are getting any assistance wouldn’t be undocumented because it would mean they went through the process of asking for asylum, which means they are not truly undocumented. Why would we not try to help these people become part of the actual economy of our country filling positions that can’t be filled. Republicans consider asylum seekers among the undocumented, of course. |
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,429
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Post by huskergal on Nov 14, 2024 16:12:23 GMT
There are not 20 million criminals here like the right likes to rant about. nobody said that I really wish that instead of putting billions of dollars into getting rid of immigrants we could put that time and effort into making it easier for those who truly want to come here and work for a better life to be able to do that.the majority of people are fine with this...IF they come through the proper ports of entry and go through the proper channels to be here legally They aren't coming because they heard that you can get free Nike's and food gift cards.oh yes they were...it was a complete free-for-all these last 3.5 years if you consider that there are currently about 20 million undocumented illegals in the US up to now, and 10+ million have come over in bidens administration alone. That's half in the last 3.5 years... Nothing that you just posted is true. 1. YOU said initially that there were 20 million criminal illegal aliens let in by Biden alone. When I pointed out to you that there aren't even 20 million illegal immigrants of any kind in the US, you claimed you were "over-exaggerating." 2. Applying for asylum is going through the proper channels. Yet those are the people you and Trump want to turn away or deport. For unskilled workers who don't qualify for asylum, there is no reasonable proper channel for most of them to come here despite the fact that we dangle the carrot of jobs that need to be filled. Would you support an expanded guest worker program? Keep in mind that (a) we need the workers and (b) as many are leaving grinding poverty, in order to get the workers productive, we will have to help them get on their feet. That may include things like a decent pair of shoes or some money to buy food and necessities. I guarantee you no one is making the long, dangerous journey north just for the promise of Nikes and a gift card. 3. There are still not 20 million undocumented immigrants here. The closer estimate is 11 million. Which precludes any possibility of 10 million arriving during the Biden administration. We've been over this already and I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you'd stop telling lies. www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/06/12/politifact-how-many-undocumented-immigrants-live-in-the-u-s/74047477007/www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/USThe border is no more porous now than it was before. Believe it or not, the numbers of immigrants that show up here increase in relation to worsening conditions in their own countries, not because of who is president. Most would rather not leave their homes and families and move to a country that is hostile to them. When numbers increase, it's because things are bad in central and south America. Kamala Harris helped reduce the flow of immigrants here by partnering with private companies (not using tax dollars) to increase opportunity in Venezuela and other hot spots. That's the most rational and effective way to stem undocumented immigration. Some people can't handle the truth! |
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,989
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Post by peppermintpatty on Nov 14, 2024 16:16:03 GMT
My honest opinion is this is all smoke. Yes, I do have a stake in this. My father's side is from Iran. My aunt has a green card but is not a citizen. She is 94 years old. They said that what he is proposing would balloon the deficit by BILLIONS of dollars. I think they said something like at least $1M per person in all the extra costs. He says this shit but then the next shiny object comes along and he is "squirrel".
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Post by micheley on Nov 14, 2024 16:20:02 GMT
I desperately hope it’s smoke, but as long as he has Stephen “Wormtongue” Miller in his ear, I’m concerned.
And from Reddit:
First they came for women
And I did not speak out
Because I did not need or plan on having an abortion
Then they came for the LGBTQ+
And I did not speak out
Because boys shouldn’t play in girls sports
Then they came for the minorities
And I did not speak out
Because minorities are eating our cats
Then they came for the poor
And I did not speak out
Because I wanted my tax cuts
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
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Post by cindosha on Nov 14, 2024 16:51:30 GMT
There are not 20 million criminals here like the right likes to rant about. nobody said that I really wish that instead of putting billions of dollars into getting rid of immigrants we could put that time and effort into making it easier for those who truly want to come here and work for a better life to be able to do that.the majority of people are fine with this...IF they come through the proper ports of entry and go through the proper channels to be here legally They aren't coming because they heard that you can get free Nike's and food gift cards.oh yes they were...it was a complete free-for-all these last 3.5 years if you consider that there are currently about 20 million undocumented illegals in the US up to now, and 10+ million have come over in bidens administration alone. That's half in the last 3.5 years... Nothing that you just posted is true. 1. YOU said initially that there were 20 million criminal illegal aliens let in by Biden alone. When I pointed out to you that there aren't even 20 million illegal immigrants of any kind in the US, you claimed you were "over-exaggerating." 2. Applying for asylum is going through the proper channels. Yet those are the people you and Trump want to turn away or deport. For unskilled workers who don't qualify for asylum, there is no reasonable proper channel for most of them to come here despite the fact that we dangle the carrot of jobs that need to be filled. Would you support an expanded guest worker program? Keep in mind that (a) we need the workers and (b) as many are leaving grinding poverty, in order to get the workers productive, we will have to help them get on their feet. That may include things like a decent pair of shoes or some money to buy food and necessities. I guarantee you no one is making the long, dangerous journey north just for the promise of Nikes and a gift card. 3. There are still not 20 million undocumented immigrants here. The closer estimate is 11 million. Which precludes any possibility of 10 million arriving during the Biden administration. We've been over this already and I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you'd stop telling lies. www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/06/12/politifact-how-many-undocumented-immigrants-live-in-the-u-s/74047477007/www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/USThe border is no more porous now than it was before. Believe it or not, the numbers of immigrants that show up here increase in relation to worsening conditions in their own countries, not because of who is president. Most would rather not leave their homes and families and move to a country that is hostile to them. When numbers increase, it's because things are bad in central and south America. Kamala Harris helped reduce the flow of immigrants here by partnering with private companies (not using tax dollars) to increase opportunity in Venezuela and other hot spots. That's the most rational and effective way to stem undocumented immigration. There are 20 million illegals in the country now. That is a fact. I corrected myself and said 10 million were let in by biden. Ten million were let in by biden. That is a fact.
I never said that people that are going through proper channels should be deported. The people that should be deported are the criminals, rapists and murderers. And the ones that bypassed the LEGAL way to get into the country. If you want to seek asylum, come in through the port of entry and do the paperwork LEGALLY. I'm not sure why that is a sticking point for you.
The border is/was more porous now because the biden administration let 10+ million people in and a great number of them not through proper channels or port of entry and they have been shipped all over the country to sanctuary cities and beyond because the border states were sick of the influx. I'm not sure where you don't see that as well.
kamala nor biden did absolutely anything to staunch the flow of illegals until the beginning of fall and then only because it was tanking her campaign. Regardless of what is happening in other countries, the United States owes the United States citizens all of the benefits, social programs and help before any foreigners. America first. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 14, 2024 16:58:04 GMT
Nothing that you just posted is true. 1. YOU said initially that there were 20 million criminal illegal aliens let in by Biden alone. When I pointed out to you that there aren't even 20 million illegal immigrants of any kind in the US, you claimed you were "over-exaggerating." 2. Applying for asylum is going through the proper channels. Yet those are the people you and Trump want to turn away or deport. For unskilled workers who don't qualify for asylum, there is no reasonable proper channel for most of them to come here despite the fact that we dangle the carrot of jobs that need to be filled. Would you support an expanded guest worker program? Keep in mind that (a) we need the workers and (b) as many are leaving grinding poverty, in order to get the workers productive, we will have to help them get on their feet. That may include things like a decent pair of shoes or some money to buy food and necessities. I guarantee you no one is making the long, dangerous journey north just for the promise of Nikes and a gift card. 3. There are still not 20 million undocumented immigrants here. The closer estimate is 11 million. Which precludes any possibility of 10 million arriving during the Biden administration. We've been over this already and I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you'd stop telling lies. www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/06/12/politifact-how-many-undocumented-immigrants-live-in-the-u-s/74047477007/www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/USThe border is no more porous now than it was before. Believe it or not, the numbers of immigrants that show up here increase in relation to worsening conditions in their own countries, not because of who is president. Most would rather not leave their homes and families and move to a country that is hostile to them. When numbers increase, it's because things are bad in central and south America. Kamala Harris helped reduce the flow of immigrants here by partnering with private companies (not using tax dollars) to increase opportunity in Venezuela and other hot spots. That's the most rational and effective way to stem undocumented immigration. There are 20 million illegals in the country now. That is a fact. I corrected myself and said 10 million were let in by biden. Ten million were let in by biden. That is a fact.
I never said that people that are going through proper channels should be deported. The people that should be deported are the criminals, rapists and murderers. And the ones that bypassed the LEGAL way to get into the country. If you want to seek asylum, come in through the port of entry and do the paperwork LEGALLY. I'm not sure why that is a sticking point for you.
The border is/was more porous now because the biden administration let 10+ million people in and a great number of them not through proper channels or port of entry and they have been shipped all over the country to sanctuary cities and beyond because the border states were sick of the influx. I'm not sure where you don't see that as well.
kamala nor biden did absolutely anything to staunch the flow of illegals until the beginning of fall and then only because it was tanking her campaign. Regardless of what is happening in other countries, the United States owes the United States citizens all of the benefits, social programs and help before any foreigners. America first. Nope. All still wrong. Read the first article I linked. The 20m number you cite was first spouted by Marco Rubio, whose office was able to provide no source for that number (i.e., he made it up). The groups that actually study these things keep the number around 11m. The other two links are from groups that actually study immigration. Understand that many immigrants cross through unauthorized areas because that's where their coyote takes them. They then present themselves to the agents (as in Eagle Pass) and are taken to be processed and start an asylum case if that's what they want. Greg Abbott has indeed shipped immigrants all over the country at great expense to Texas taxpayers. Take that up with him. You seem impervious to actually learning anything, though. How do you think a president is doing his duty to the people of the USA when he lets our industries go without the workers they need, reducing their contributions to our economy? |
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Post by katlady on Nov 14, 2024 17:07:48 GMT
This is a Mexican-American who voted for Trump. His reasoning makes no sense! His family is undocumented, but because his family has been here 20 years, that makes them better than newer undocumented families??? In the end, his family will still be deported if Trump has his way! The disconnect is real. “Seeing my undocumented family members, who have been in the U.S. for more than 20 years, work, pay taxes and buy their own homes with zero benefits, then watching millions of new migrants skip the line with government-funded help, only inflamed me and other Latinos like me. When my mother came to America as a single mother of two, she did not get any benefits. This election became personal. It was about my family!” www.yahoo.com/news/commentary-am-mexican-american-voted-131500521.html |
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I think detention camps will be the first step. I wouldn't be surprised if an entire private, for profit industry is developed as part of the process.
