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Post by mom2jnk on Jan 9, 2025 20:29:00 GMT
Did you read the article you cite here??? This is from the article... "Jeffrey Mount, senior fellow at the PPIC Water Policy Center, a think tank that tracks water use and storage data in California, told VERIFY that there isn’t a shortage of water in the area’s reservoirs. “At no time during this fire has there been a shortage of water in southern California,” Mount said. “ Their reservoirs are full. And there is nothing to be done with water that would have changed the course of these fires.”"There wasn't even one days use of the water, which BECAME DRY IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS. You can argue semantics all you want. There was no water getting to the hydrants and therefore the houses and businesses incinerated. AND if the water can't get to the hydrants, what good is it??? Arguing semantics? NO, I am pointing out that you are making factually inaccurate and misleading statements. In my classroom, I teach my students to first ask, "who is this person and what are their qualifications to speak as an expert in this field?" I do wonder what your qualifications are to make these judgments. Most of your statements do not align with the sources you quote and reflect an ignorance of climate science principles, urban water infrastructure, and Colorado River basin watershed management. Finger pointing and spreading misinformation and disinformation is not helpful to anyone. |
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cindosha
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,118 
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Post by cindosha on Jan 9, 2025 20:34:19 GMT
There wasn't even one days use of the water, which BECAME DRY IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS. You can argue semantics all you want. There was no water getting to the hydrants and therefore the houses and businesses incinerated. AND if the water can't get to the hydrants, what good is it??? OMG, A *tank* isn't a reservoir! It's a smaller, separate, part of the system. The tanks were emptied and weren't able to be refilled fast enough with water from the reservoirs, because the pumping system is apparently undersized for a situation like this. The fire hydrant system is designed to fight small numbers of structure fires, they aren't designed or intended to fight wildfires. Why are you expecting them to function beyond their capabilities? Exactly how many tanks are you advocating communities at risk of fire have on standby? The system in place didn't work. They need to change things so that they don't have to function beyond their capabilities. Even though most wildfires are in the less populated areas, there are still wildfires in the urban areas and they are becoming increasingly more common due to growing urban populations, the decreasing health of forests, and an increase in the number and density of these homes built in the urban areas. That is exactly why I said that the infrastructure of the holding/pumping/piping system has to be changed/upgraded/added to. I suppose now that this has happened, they will have to find a way to do just that so that these people don't have to go through such a horrifying and catastrophic event ever again. |
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cindosha
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,118
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Post by cindosha on Jan 9, 2025 20:36:07 GMT
Can we get back to ignoring her and focus on the facts and what is currently happening please? I am tired of her always turning shit political and the bickering. I and other peas live here. We have family and friends who lost everything. And 5 lives have been lost. Family pets. Wildlife. Schools. Stories. Photos. We know our politics and what water we have. Doesn't help with what is currently going on. Hopefully things will change and your state/cities can get the help they need to rebuild. |
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Post by hopemax on Jan 9, 2025 21:18:36 GMT
OMG, A *tank* isn't a reservoir! It's a smaller, separate, part of the system. The tanks were emptied and weren't able to be refilled fast enough with water from the reservoirs, because the pumping system is apparently undersized for a situation like this. The fire hydrant system is designed to fight small numbers of structure fires, they aren't designed or intended to fight wildfires. Why are you expecting them to function beyond their capabilities? Exactly how many tanks are you advocating communities at risk of fire have on standby? The system in place didn't work. They need to change things so that they don't have to function beyond their capabilities. Even though most wildfires are in the less populated areas, there are still wildfires in the urban areas and they are becoming increasingly more common due to growing urban populations, the decreasing health of forests, and an increase in the number and density of these homes built in the urban areas. That is exactly why I said that the infrastructure of the holding/pumping/piping system has to be changed/upgraded/added to. I suppose now that this has happened, they will have to find a way to do just that so that these people don't have to go through such a horrifying and catastrophic event ever again. Congratulations, you just described the necessity of community projects that gets grouped under the banner of "socialism" when it's politically convenient. I want to believe you want these things. But I expect that the people you believe more than me, will call these type of projects unnecessary and / or socialism driven by a woke agenda, to avoid the whole conversation of who and how should we pay for it. Rather than losing your confidence in those people to actually "do the work," and seeking out people who will, you are more likely to forget the horror you feel today and react to that word "socialism" instead. Or some other manufactured outrage. Those people you believe more than me will convince enough people that people like the person who wrote the thread I am about to share, shouldn't be listened to because of their gender. Or others because of their race, sexual orientation or class. These places *will* burn again, because experts are already aware of the frequency in which these places burn. The key will be in land management, down to the choices of the individual property owners, so where vegetation, but not homes burn. But the residents and local leaders still need to believe the outcomes could be more severe because of climate change, and be willing to take the steps to mitigate. bsky.app/profile/pyrogeog.bsky.social/post/3lfd7je7gw22l |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 9, 2025 21:27:47 GMT
Not even sure why this is an issue for MAGA, it seems pretty simple. Intense fires combined with high winds overwhelmed the resources available, including water. Too much demand combined with a number of factors including lack of access to stations, gravity, old, outdated infrastructure in need of investment, drought, high winds and the inability to use water drops etc. We know MAGA doesn't really care about the "coastal elites", Hollywood types, liberals and people that live in California. They're just looking for reasons to criticize Democratic leadership, especially Newsom who is a potential presidential candidate in 2028. Trump is absolutely politicizing a tragedy with a lot of misinformation. Ironic that conservatives are in denial of climate change and at the same time criticizing the response to a fire that intensified due to several different climate conditions, exacerbated by climate change. I can almost guarantee that MAGA Republicans will vote against federal aid for California or money to improve infrastructure or help the state prepare for future disasters. www.eenews.net/articles/trump-seizes-on-california-wildfires-to-roast-endangered-fish-dems/Los Angeles firefighters did indeed lose water in the middle of the firefight last night.
That’s largely due to the unprecedented nature of the fires, said Los Angeles County Public Works Director Mark Pestrella, who noted over 200 water retailers serve the areas effected by the fires.
“A firefight with multiple fire hydrants drawing water from the system for several hours is unsustainable. This is a known fact,” Pestrella said at a press conference, saying he wanted to address “comments over social media over local water supply and its impact on our firefighting efforts.”
Water drops from airplanes and helicopters are normally critical tools to help fight expansive and fast-moving wildfires, but they have thus-far been prevented by strong winds and decreased visibility from smoke. That’s put all the more pressure on local water supplies to keep up the pace with “tremendous demand” from firefighters, said city public works chief Janisse Quiñones.
“We pushed the system to the extreme, four times the normal demand was seen for 15 hours straight, which lowered our water pressure,” she said.
The trunk water line to Pacific Palisades was pushing water to hydrants at 75 cubic feet per second, and DWP also brought 3 million-gallon water tanks to the Palisades area yesterday in an effort to maintain pressure. The first tank ran out of water at 4:45 p.m. All three tanks were emptied by 3 a.m. today, and “all of the fire hydrants went dry in the Palisades,” Quiñones said.
Public works employees working to refill the tanks also had to be evacuated in the middle of the night.
Since then, the city has found water tanks usually reserved for other uses, like by construction crews, and has sent 20 tanks each full of 4,000 gallons of water to the fire department.
“We are constantly moving that water to the fire department to get them as much as we can,” she said.
In the meantime, municipal water pressure and supply is so low that the city has issued a boil water advisory for at least one ZIP code. County officials also warned residents to only use water if needed and told them not to use personal hoses to try and dampen their homes and prevent fires.
“We need customers to understand that it is really quite futile to attempt to fight fires with your hose at your house,” Pestrella said. “I would ask that you turn off your water and turn off your gas before you leave the residence so that we can continue to have that water supply for the hydrant system.”
www.nytimes.com/live/2025/01/09/us/california-fires-los-angeles#a-lack-of-water-has-hindered-firefighting-effortsA lack of water has hampered crews’ efforts to beat back the fires.
Firefighters’ work in Pacific Palisades pushed the local water supply system to its limits before dawn on Wednesday, leaving some fire hydrants that are at higher elevations dry as crews battled the Palisades fire. Firefighters were drawing water faster than local tanks could be refilled, officials said at a Wednesday news conference.
After daybreak, water shortages in some hydrants lingered as authorities worked to restore supplies. Helicopters have resumed flying over the Palisades and dropping water on the flames after being grounded overnight because of poor conditions, according to the office of the mayor, Karen Bass.
Janisse Quiñones, the chief executive of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, said at the news conference that the system relies on three large water tanks, each holding about a million gallons, to maintain pressure for fire hydrants and uphill areas.
The tanks, along with all other water tanks in the city, were filled ahead of the fire to ensure water availability, according to Captain Scott.
But it wasn’t enough: Ms. Quiñones said two tanks were depleted on Tuesday, and the third ran dry around 3 a.m. Wednesday as water demand surged to four times the normal rate for 15 consecutive hours.
“We pushed the system to the extreme,” she said.
She said the city is working to provide as much water as possible, which includes identifying areas where tankers can refill.
The shortages have sparked criticism from residents and on social media, with some accusing officials of being unprepared for the fires. But officials at the news conference attributed the shortages to the severity of the fires, which grew rapidly, fueled by ferocious winds. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 9, 2025 21:51:41 GMT
Sharp contrast between Biden and Trump's responses to the fires. Or compare Trump's response to fires during his first term when he initially refused to send federal aid to California. Trump just likes to create division, he doesn't actually help people. Similar to his response after the hurricane in North Carolina this fall. heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-8-2024-d1fAt least four wildfires tearing across Los Angeles have killed at least five people and forced the evacuation of at least 130,000 more, and have flattened about 42 square miles (109 square kilometers). The fires are being driven by unusually high winds with gusts of up to 98 miles per hour (158 km per hour). Although January is typically part of California’s wet season, conditions are terribly dry. Downtown Los Angeles has received just 0.16 inches (0.4 cm) of rain since May 6, 2024, and the summer was unusually hot.
President Joe Biden is supporting state and local responses to the fire with federal resources. Today, he approved a major disaster declaration, which enables people and towns to access funds immediately in order to jump-start their recovery. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) will reimburse California for some of the costs of fighting the fires. Five U.S. Forest Service large air tankers and ten federal firefighting helicopters have been deployed to support the local firefighters; ten Navy helicopters with water delivery buckets are joining them. California governor Gavin Newsom has deployed the California National Guard, and the Nevada National Guard is standing by.
Canada, too, has sent water-dropping helicopters and a pair of planes, which are part of a firefighting contract with California that’s been in place for 14 years.
At a fire station in Santa Monica, Biden stood beside Newsom and said: “We’re prepared to do anything and everything for as long as it takes to contain these fires.”
In contrast to federal support for California under Biden, in the midst of the ongoing crisis President-elect Donald Trump blamed California governor Gavin “Newscum and his Los Angeles crew” for the fires, suggesting he had put the needs of fish over the people of California. He posted: “Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way.” "Let this stand as a symbol of the gross incompetence and mismanagement of the Biden/Newsom duo,” Trump posted. “January 20th cannot come fast enough!"
Newsom’s office responded: “There is no such document as the water restoration declaration—that is pure fiction. The Governor is focused on protecting people, not playing politics, and making sure firefighters have all the resources they need.”
Trump is apparently claiming that water that could be used to fight the fires has been diverted to protect the endangered Delta smelt. But the water systems in California are complicated, and importing water from northern California would make no difference for the wildfires.
Los Angeles water doesn’t come from northern California. It comes from an aqueduct east of the Sierra Nevada, from groundwater, and from the Colorado River. Right now, the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California has more water stored than it has ever had before, according to Mark Gold, a board member. “It’s not a matter of having enough water coming from Northern California to put out a fire,” he told Alastair Bland of CalMatters. “It’s about the continued devastating impacts of a changing climate.”
Hydroclimatologist Peter Gleick told Taryn Luna, Liam Dillon, and Alex Wigglesworth of the Los Angeles Times that Trump’s linking of water policy to the raging fires was “blatantly false, irresponsible and politically self-serving.”
The two different responses of the current president and the incoming one reveal dramatically different approaches to the presidency. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,653
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Post by pinklady on Jan 9, 2025 22:34:31 GMT
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the Peas that they cannot stop responding to the resident MAGA trolls? You are not going to change their mind and they are not going to change your mind. Those that can't stop themselves from responding need serious introspection.  |
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 9, 2025 23:04:41 GMT
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the Peas that they cannot stop responding to the resident MAGA trolls? You are not going to change their mind and they are not going to change your mind. Those that can't stop themselves from responding need serious introspection. And it gets tiring having threads derailed from the back and forth. We can't have 1 threed without the usuals voicing long copy and pastes or X posts or what not. Let's leave this to information about what is going on in southern CA and LA county so we can keep on track and share information that might be valuable to another pea or their friend/family especially if they don't live here. Good gosh. It makes 2peas a sucky place to be |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:52:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2025 23:12:15 GMT
20 acre fire has broken out near the 101 and Valley Circle  |
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Post by epeanymous on Jan 9, 2025 23:12:35 GMT
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the Peas that they cannot stop responding to the resident MAGA trolls? You are not going to change their mind and they are not going to change your mind. Those that can't stop themselves from responding need serious introspection. The block feature is right at everyone’s fingertips. All people are doing is, so to speak, giving fuel to a fire. |
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Post by hopemax on Jan 9, 2025 23:20:24 GMT
Unfortunately, in order to achieve the change you seek these people do need to change their mind; they just proved to be the majority of those motivated to vote. I've given up on activating the unmotivated. Right now, this particular one seems to be struggling with this event, how it could happen, and that we should take steps so it doesn't happen again. I did not intend to respond to her again, but I did not expect her to voice her desire for steps to be taken. Steps I don't believe the people she trusts are even open to exploring the necessity of. I do not intend to respond to more of the back-and-forth, but one of the progressive beliefs is that when push comes to shove... like a destructive fire, people of different political persuasions are closer to desiring the same outcome than the rhetoric would imply. So I took a paragraph to dive into the idea that if you truly want to prevent this, people need to support others who *act* to prevent this.
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 9, 2025 23:44:31 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 9, 2025 23:47:24 GMT
This new fire has high rate of speed and more than doubled in 17 minutes.
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Post by jill8909 on Jan 9, 2025 23:56:49 GMT
just a taste of what's coming and how the crude crass one will respond
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Post by hopemax on Jan 10, 2025 0:00:55 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 10, 2025 0:09:20 GMT
I have family being evacuated.
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dawnnikol
Prolific Pea
'A life without books is a life not lived.' Jay Kristoff
Posts: 9,460
Sept 21, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Post by dawnnikol on Jan 10, 2025 0:13:56 GMT
I have family being evacuated. I'm so sorry. |
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Lurkingpea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,561
Apr 24, 2022 18:37:20 GMT
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Post by Lurkingpea on Jan 10, 2025 0:15:40 GMT
I have family being evacuated. I am so sorry. I hope they will be safe and it ends up just being a precaution. It must be so terrifying. I am praying for everyone dealing with this. Do any SoCal peas have an idea on where it is best to donate money? |
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jan 10, 2025 0:21:26 GMT
I have family being evacuated. I’m so sorry. I hope they get to return home soon. These darn winds can’t end quickly enough. |
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 10, 2025 0:40:27 GMT
Level 3 which means immediately go as the fire is very close. It is moving down towards their neighborhood.
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 10, 2025 0:42:05 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 10, 2025 0:47:45 GMT
Another has their vehicle packed ready to go.
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TXMary
Pearl Clutcher
And so many nights I just dream of the ocean. God, I wish I was sailin' again.
Posts: 3,410
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Post by TXMary on Jan 10, 2025 1:06:54 GMT
I have family being evacuated. I’m so sorry. Saying prayers for their safety and for all those affected. It’s heartbreaking. |
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Post by katlady on Jan 10, 2025 1:17:52 GMT
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Post by epeanymous on Jan 10, 2025 1:49:19 GMT
I have family being evacuated. I am so sorry. I hope they stay safe and that their home is spared. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:52:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2025 2:14:00 GMT
My heart goes out to the people of LA & surrounding areas , Have been watching the news on & off the last couple of days,
I do wish They would focus on the everyday non Celeb people who have lost Everything & are going to suffer for years after this disaster , I really hope They will be looked after as They can't just write a check and have a new house built like most of the mega rich are able to do .
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Post by mom2jnk on Jan 10, 2025 2:29:05 GMT
Another has their vehicle packed ready to go. I am so sorry. I can not imagine how terrifying this must be for you and your family. Please know that many here are holding your family and all affected by these disasters in our thoughts. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:52:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2025 3:31:13 GMT
The Los Angeles Police Department has confirmed to NewsNation that the Kenneth Fire is now being investigated as an arson case, and one person is in custody.
Sickening.
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Post by MichyM on Jan 10, 2025 4:32:20 GMT
Just a quick update. My son is back home. Hurray. I am so sorry for anyone in harms way right now. Keep us posted on your family pantsonfire as well as the rest of you all! |
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Post by flanz on Jan 10, 2025 4:48:14 GMT
Another has their vehicle packed ready to go. I am so sorry. I can not imagine how terrifying this must be for you and your family. Please know that many here are holding your family and all affected by these disasters in our thoughts. Yes! 100% May they all be well. The stats I heard this afternoon were 190k people ordered to evacuated and another 130k or so under evacuation warnings/ voluntary evac notices. the scope of this is staggering! that's grea to hear MichyM. I hope his air quality is ok. |
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