peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,946
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jul 9, 2014 11:30:42 GMT
While I do understand why these people are basically abandoning their children because of the conditions in their homeland, why is it our responsibility to take care of them?
I'm not being snarky or judgemental, I seriously want to know why some people think that it is our responsibility? How can these people live with themselves sending small defenseless children into another country without anything? To me that is abandonment.
Now we are supposed to spend billions of dollars that we need for other things (funded by the average American and not the elite 1%) to take care of this issue.
Okay, off my soapbox.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 9, 2014 11:34:44 GMT
Because it's the humane thing to do when someone is in need and/or distress? Because being a good human involves helping others instead of asking why it's my/our responsibility? Because if I was in the shoes of those poor children, I would hope that someone would help me instead of looking at me as a burden or an expense that wastes money that could be better used elsewhere? Because it's the right thing to do? Just my Canadian point of view.
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Post by gypsymama on Jul 9, 2014 11:39:54 GMT
i just saw on the news that the UN considers them refugees... wondering how much the UN is planning to help
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,946
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jul 9, 2014 11:58:41 GMT
grinningcat, I understand that it is the humane thing to do. What I don't understand is why we don't send them back? Other countries would have no issue with doing the same thing if there were a huge influx of American children. Our system cannot handle the poverty that we have now. I don't know about Canada but if we cannot take care of our own, adding more to the mix won't help the situation and all that money being spent on long term care, housing etc. that will now be spent on these children will be taken away from full US citizens who cannot get the help they need. If this makes me a bad person or inhumane then so be it.
The parents are hoping that these kids will become US citizens so they can bring the rest of the family into the US and possibly allow them to be a burden.
The UN is really good at labeling things but when asked to step up and take charge, they run.
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Post by woodysbetty on Jul 9, 2014 12:04:20 GMT
I shudder to think what horrors they left behind as well as the nightmare ahead of these children as they are pushed through our system.....how scared they must be.....it will be a long time before they have a sense of safety .....sad for all involved......no easy answer or solution....
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 9, 2014 12:08:16 GMT
grinningcat, I understand that it is the humane thing to do. What I don't understand is why we don't send them back? Other countries would have no issue with doing the same thing if there were a huge influx of American children. Our system cannot handle the poverty that we have now. I don't know about Canada but if we cannot take care of our own, adding more to the mix won't help the situation and all that money being spent on long term care, housing etc. that will now be spent on these children will be taken away from full US citizens who cannot get the help they need. If this makes me a bad person or inhumane then so be it. So rather than do something, they should just be turned back? Has that ever gone over well, forcing refugees back to the place that was so horrible they had to leave it? There's a lot of hardship in Canada as well, but surely there is a way to help not only within but without as well. Do you really think they would have left their homes if they weren't desperate? Is this a proven fact? None of the sources I've read have not shown this to be the absolute reason for sending their children. I'm sure that some may have this motive but I don't think it's right to paint everyone with this generalization.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 18:12:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 12:15:09 GMT
Where does it end? Do we stop at allowing 250,000 in? Is there more suffering in the world that then forces us to allow another 500,000 in? How about 1,000,000? There is much suffering across the globe. As humanitarian an issue as this is, we cannot possibly shoulder the moral and financial responsibility to care for all on the planet that are in a bad situation, can we?
Legal immigration...of course.
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Post by Miss Ang on Jul 9, 2014 12:19:28 GMT
Where does it end? Do we stop at allowing 250,000 in? Is there more suffering in the world that then forces us to allow another 500,000 in? How about 1,000,000? There is much suffering across the globe. As humanitarian an issue as this is, we cannot possibly shoulder the moral and financial responsibility to care for all on the planet that are in a bad situation, can we? Agreed.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 18:12:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 12:25:21 GMT
Grinning cat...you said "So rather than do something, they should just be turned back? Has that ever gone over well, forcing refugees back to the place that was so horrible they had to leave it? There's a lot of hardship in Canada as well, but surely there is a way to help not only within but without as well. Do you really think they would have left their homes if they weren't desperate?"
I'm certain that in some cases, people that make the claims experience this and believe this.
I am also skeptical because many of these people have been coached. They know exactly what to say to the border patrol agents. They know how to work the system and know that if they can get in, they won't ever have to show up for any hearings and they're home free.
People in Central America are living in poverty and looking for a better way of life. There are plenty of Americans (including children) that don't know where their meals in the summer will come from because the only way they ate was free breakfast and lunch at school. There are plenty of Americans going hungry. There are American serviceman dying because they can't get medical care at the VA. We've got plenty of humanitarian issues in this nation to deal with before we attempt to take on the burden of others.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,274
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on Jul 9, 2014 13:05:25 GMT
There is so much violence in Central America.
Picture this. You are a mother of a child that you love more than life itself. Conditions are SO bad, and I mean SO BAD - that sending them alone to the US is the best option. You know if they remain they will be raped and murdered, but if they can get to the US, they might have a chance at a better life.
Put yourself in their place and think about it for a minute.
I am not saying let them all in and support them - but just for minute, put yourself in their shoes and think about it.
I really don't know what the solution is. But your not going to stop them by turning them back to a life that is beyond anything we can even imagine.
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Post by threegirls on Jul 9, 2014 13:10:22 GMT
I agree with this. I live in an area of the country where the poverty rate is extremely high. I see it every, single day. I also agree that we should take care of our servicemen and women better than we have.
Americans should not be thrown a guilt trip when we are unable to help every person in the world.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 9, 2014 13:11:41 GMT
I don't think people are trying to guilt Americans into helping every person in the world. I think some people are saying that helping someone on your doorstep isn't the worst thing in the world. Again, surely it is possible to help within while helping others.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jul 9, 2014 13:14:14 GMT
Because it's the humane thing to do when someone is in need and/or distress? Because being a good human involves helping others instead of asking why it's my/our responsibility? Because if I was in the shoes of those poor children, I would hope that someone would help me instead of looking at me as a burden or an expense that wastes money that could be better used elsewhere? Because it's the right thing to do? Just my Canadian point of view. This American agrees.
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Jul 9, 2014 13:14:16 GMT
Where does it end? Do we stop at allowing 250,000 in? Is there more suffering in the world that then forces us to allow another 500,000 in? How about 1,000,000? There is much suffering across the globe. As humanitarian an issue as this is, we cannot possibly shoulder the moral and financial responsibility to care for all on the planet that are in a bad situation, can we? Legal immigration...of course. totally agree and Ive been asking the same question.
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Post by cecelia on Jul 9, 2014 13:16:47 GMT
In every apocalypse movie I've ever seen, the part that tears my heart out the most is when you see mothers trying to give their children away to the people who have the best means of survival. I always thought that was a maternal instinct - to want your children to survive, even if that means you won't be able to be with them.
I have a friend whose mother was given up to a Christian family as an infant during the Holocaust because it gave her the best survival rate. Luckily, the family was able to be reunited, but it wasn't that way for so many families. I think the situation in Central America must feel like an apocalypse to those parents who feel so desperate they are willing to bargain on us.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 18:12:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 13:16:59 GMT
Disputing the notion that violence is a major reason for the recent surge in the exodus of Guatemalan children to the U.S. border, the Guatemalan ambassador to the United States cited three factors that draw them northward: a desire to be with their parents, a lack of opportunities at home, and the aggressive recruitment of smugglers who guarantee parents that they will receive their children. Appearing on the Univision Sunday talk show “Al Punto”, Ambassador Julio Ligorria rejected host Jorge Ramos’s suggestion that the children were fleeing increased gang violence. While gang violence may be a major push factor in the flight of children from El Salvador, Ligorria said, Guatemalan children are fleeing primarily from areas in the north of Guatemala, far away from the eastern part of the country where gang violence has been concentrated. “So violence is not the reason,” Ligorria said. “It’s essentially a matter of lack of opportunities, of trying to reach the American dream, but also to achieve family reunification. Many of the parents of these children are in the United States, and the children go to find them.” I'm not going to dispute that there's violence. I will even state that I'm sure there are some (or perhaps even many) that are legitimate claims. But I am hesitant to believe that all of the claims made by those entering this country are factual. I'm hesitant to take Obama's word for it that it's violence in their homeland bringing them here. www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/06/guatemalan-ambassador-violence-in-central-america-is-not-reason-for-influx-of-illegals-to-us/
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MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 9, 2014 13:17:47 GMT
Maybe half of these children should be passed on to Canada. They could offer a fair share of helping these children, instead of the entire 'rightful' burden being placed on the US.
Wonder how far that one would fly?
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MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 9, 2014 13:23:22 GMT
For the record, I don't know what the answer is.
The heart and the brain don't always agree.
But, there are limits to what this country can provide people. That's just a fact. Citizens should take precedence over illegal immigrants.
However, these parents are banking on the fact that Americans hearts won't allow anything but accepting the responsibility to take care of these children. They were right.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,946
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jul 9, 2014 13:25:36 GMT
Is this really true? I was wondering about this. If it is, where are the parents?
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,946
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jul 9, 2014 13:27:06 GMT
I totally agree.
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Post by gar on Jul 9, 2014 13:28:22 GMT
Where does it end? Do we stop at allowing 250,000 in? Is there more suffering in the world that then forces us to allow another 500,000 in? How about 1,000,000? There is much suffering across the globe. As humanitarian an issue as this is, we cannot possibly shoulder the moral and financial responsibility to care for all on the planet that are in a bad situation, can we? Legal immigration...of course. I don't think you have to shoulder the responsibility for the whole of humanity, no.....many many other countries, including UK and many others within Europe have more than our fair share of mass immigration by illegal means. We all have a responsibility to a degree, to help those in dire circumstances, although it is hard to find a balance when people in our own countries are struggling too, I do agree
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MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 9, 2014 13:28:44 GMT
Just had a thought...
Make these children ineligible to ever sponsor someone to come into the country. Then, they no longer become a ticket to an entire family immigrating here.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 18:12:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 13:47:43 GMT
Is this really true? I was wondering about this. If it is, where are the parents?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 18:12:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 13:53:16 GMT
Well...I quoted and added new text...and even added a link and it's not there. I sure wish we could delete our posts. Here's a question to add to the discussion. If violence is truly the reason for illegals to enter our country, why do so few illegal immigrants show up for their deportation hearing? I don't recall where I saw the figure, but I heard/saw/read that as little as 5% show up for their hearings once they're "released" in this country. If they had a valid reason (and sure, violence in their homeland could be a very valid reason) why would they not follow the rules and guidelines? www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/01/illegal-immigrants-already-being-released-to-neighborhood-near/
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 18:12:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 13:55:53 GMT
And I'm not saying that there's no violence in Central America and I'm not saying that NONE of the recent influx of illegal immigrants have valid concern. What I'm saying is that I'm skeptical and know that illegal aliens are often coached...either by their family members (here or back at home) or by the smugglers themselves on what to say when approached by border patrol.
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Post by DinCA on Jul 9, 2014 13:58:38 GMT
I just heard on the news here in California that it is being suggested that we take them in as foster children.
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,788
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 9, 2014 14:09:38 GMT
Can I ask a really ignorant question? I have heard little bits and pieces about this here and the news but life has gotten in my way recently and I haven't had the chance to really dig into this issue and research as I normally would.
Why now? Why are we all of a sudden inundated with all of these children? Or has the news just now picked up on it and we simply haven't heard much about it before? Did something radical change in their country that made them flee this week, this month, this year? Why?
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 9, 2014 14:11:55 GMT
i am not fond of the idea that we will be funding all of this
but
can you imagine how shitty life has to be that a mother would send her child/ren off without her....into the unknown ...for the off-chance that they have a better life?
i think sometimes we worry so much about the financial standpoint we lose compassion
would canada consider taking on half the burden?
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Post by DinCA on Jul 9, 2014 14:12:08 GMT
Can I ask a really ignorant question? I have heard little bits and pieces about this here and the news but life has gotten in my way recently and I haven't had the chance to really dig into this issue and research as I normally would. Why now? Why are we all of a sudden inundated with all of these children? Or has the news just now picked up on it and we simply haven't heard much about it before? Did something radical change in their country that made them flee this week, this month, this year? Why? I don't know why but the LA Times is reporting that 39,133 have arrived here in the last eight months. The numbers were 10,000 in 2012 and 20,000 in 2013. That is a LOT of kids!
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Post by jamh on Jul 9, 2014 14:41:56 GMT
My state is being overwhelmed,and the kids are coming with major disease: drug-resistant TB, Swine flu, measles,and even leprosy,and the usual suspects scabies and lice. Also, my local news this morning is reporting that many of the boys/young men are members of the notorious MS13 gang.
The President is fund-raising in Texas today,but he has declined to visit the border for a look-see.
JamH
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