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Post by straggler on Jul 10, 2014 18:05:45 GMT
The humane thing to do? Humane for these illegals or humane for our country, our state, our town, our children? We cannot save the world...even though the world expects us to! I feel sorry for these 40,000 kids, but what about the next 40,000 or the more than 100,000 that are expected next year? And what about the 100,000+ the next and the year after that and the year....Most of us have compassion for these kids, but you can't clothe, feed, house, supply medical care and schooling on compassion! Has Canada or any other country offered to take a plane load? Not that I've heard. What I have heard is that if you break down the dollars Obama wants congress to approve for their care, it amounts to tens of thousands of dollars per kid! How much of this huge dollar amount will actually be spent on these kids and how much will be filtered into some hotshot's pocket like other government programs? Obama likes to talk about how he has a "pen and a phone", he should use his pen and phone to 1) send the National Guard to SECURE THE BORDER, 2) write & call the leaders of these countries, tell them what time the planes will arrive with these kids on them!
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Post by I-95 on Jul 10, 2014 18:11:19 GMT
I know this sounds heartless, but I think they need to go back to where they came from! When we had 911 or Katrina, for example, where were they then?
Yep, it not only sounds heartless, it is heartless. You make it sound like they would be getting sent back to a nice little duplex with a white picket fence, plenty of food on the table and clean clothes to wear every day. My God, we throw out more food on a daily basis than some of these families see in a day. 911 and Katrina? Other countries did send aid. Ask the Australians how much they donated.
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Post by straggler on Jul 10, 2014 18:17:43 GMT
"And, as always, I never get tired of pointing out that many of the people responding with "too much money" and "too many" and "send them home" are the same that say "Churches and communities should take care of the needy, poor and homeless - not the government.
Well...
Here's your chance."
Per news reports, church groups have been denied the ability to help tend these kids. But even if they were allowed to help, a bunch of well intended people cannot handle this crisis for long term! And what's the deal with not allowing Congressmen into these facilities?
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Post by I-95 on Jul 10, 2014 18:31:24 GMT
The humane thing to do? Humane for these illegals or humane for our country, our state, our town, our children? We cannot save the world...even though the world expects us to! I feel sorry for these 40,000 kids, but what about the next 40,000 or the more than 100,000 that are expected next year? And what about the 100,000+ the next and the year after that and the year....Most of us have compassion for these kids, but you can't clothe, feed, house, supply medical care and schooling on compassion! Has Canada or any other country offered to take a plane load? Not that I've heard. What I have heard is that if you break down the dollars Obama wants congress to approve for their care, it amounts to tens of thousands of dollars per kid! How much of this huge dollar amount will actually be spent on these kids and how much will be filtered into some hotshot's pocket like other government programs? Obama likes to talk about how he has a "pen and a phone", he should use his pen and phone to 1) send the National Guard to SECURE THE BORDER, 2) write & call the leaders of these countries, tell them what time the planes will arrive with these kids on them! Yes, it is the humane thing to do. We are the richest country in the world. We grow enough food to feed half the world. These children are not going to be housed here permanently. They are awaiting deportation hearings and will most likely get sent back to where they came from. Most of that money Obama wants for this will be spent on salaries for American workers, and supplies bought from American companies, so it's money that is staying in our economy. He can send all the National Guardsmen he wants and he's never going to be able to secure the border. Never. It's too big, it would cost billions to wall it off, and as soon as you got one part built it would be torn down, or a hole punched through it. There are not enough people to patrol our border, it's 1933 miles long, and that's just the Southern border. And NO President has ever been able to fix this problem. Why don't we talk about the people who enter this country on tourist visas and never leave? Those nice white folks who look just like us? Or the domestic workers from the Philippines who come on a nanny visa and simply never go home? There's millions of them here too but instead of sneaking over the borders they waltzed in through our airports. We are also not the only country in the world that has a problem with illegal immigration, almost every 1st world country is dealing with it. Ours might be larger just because we're bigger. I am currently in Israel and this tiny country has a huge problem with Africans streaming over the border from Egypt...claiming to be Jewish!!! The problem is pervasive and until we are ready to address it at the root, like calling out the despots who run these countries, and make them take some responsibility, they will continue to seek a better life here. Thank God you were born on this side of the border.
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Post by gar on Jul 10, 2014 18:35:51 GMT
The humane thing to do? Humane for these illegals or humane for our country, our state, our town, our children? We cannot save the world...even though the world expects us to! I feel sorry for these 40,000 kids, but what about the next 40,000 or the more than 100,000 that are expected next year? And what about the 100,000+ the next and the year after that and the year....Most of us have compassion for these kids, but you can't clothe, feed, house, supply medical care and schooling on compassion! Has Canada or any other country offered to take a plane load? Not that I've heard. What I have heard is that if you break down the dollars Obama wants congress to approve for their care, it amounts to tens of thousands of dollars per kid! How much of this huge dollar amount will actually be spent on these kids and how much will be filtered into some hotshot's pocket like other government programs? Obama likes to talk about how he has a "pen and a phone", he should use his pen and phone to 1) send the National Guard to SECURE THE BORDER, 2) write & call the leaders of these countries, tell them what time the planes will arrive with these kids on them! Oh please! Do you seriously think you're the only country with an immigration problem? You need to go back upthread and read some stats about our (UK) immigration issues for starters. Careful - your ignorance is showing.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 18:13:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 18:39:09 GMT
When we had 911 or Katrina, for example, where were they then?
SMH
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 18:13:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 18:40:31 GMT
When we had 911 or Katrina, for example, where were they then?
SMH IKR??! I've seen it said here numerous times. I want to know who is stating this as a fact? Obviously it is coming from somewhere.
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Post by red88 on Jul 10, 2014 18:47:39 GMT
There seems to be a ton of talking & no action. When it comes down to it, would you, as a citizen be willing to take in 1, 2 or 3 of these children, (most 15-17 years old), clothe them, feed them, pay for their medical & schooling costs, including college? I know in my current situation, I don't think I could take in any children because of recent job loss. I'm sure I could feed & make a child comfortable, but I don't think I could provide college funds & additional medical costs. It seems an almost impossible task. I hate the thought of these children being lost, but there are million's of children all over the world in this situation. It's not just the United States with these issues, but it's a world issue.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,447
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jul 10, 2014 18:48:15 GMT
While I do understand why these people are basically abandoning their children because of the conditions in their homeland, why is it our responsibility to take care of them? I'm not being snarky or judgemental, I seriously want to know why some people think that it is our responsibility? How can these people live with themselves sending small defenseless children into another country without anything? To me that is abandonment. Now we are supposed to spend billions of dollars that we need for other things (funded by the average American and not the elite 1%) to take care of this issue. Okay, off my soapbox. Because the USA is at least partly responsible for the conditions in Central America today. Back in the 1980s, we supported brutal, right-winged governments because it was in our best financial interest. We gave millions of dollars, weapons and military training... We stuck our nose in where it didn't belong, all in the name of the money. These countries have never recovered, and many of the guns that these gangs use today were provided by the United States. If you REALLY want to know, I suggest that you google US involvement in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. We cannot continue burying our heads in the sand We are better than this... We are better that what we did 30 years ago and we are better than what we are doing (or not doing) today...
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 10, 2014 18:58:13 GMT
These children are not going to be housed here permanently. They are awaiting deportation hearings and will most likely get sent back to where they came from. ... Thank God you were born on this side of the border. I'm sorry, but I have great skepticism about the sentences I quoted from your first paragraph. Of course they will stay here permanently, very few show up for their hearings. I wish your first statement was 100% true, but I'm not alone in my skepticism, look at the pushback with citizens blocking buses and so on. I don't think anyone, even the politicians who are saying this, believe that one. I do thank God that I was born on this side of the border. I feel terrible for those poor children. I think very few of us are heartless enough not to. But I'm also with the people who say we cannot afford this long term. And it will be long-term. People keep asking, why now? Here is a response I posted in this thread:
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 10, 2014 19:09:40 GMT
Where does it end? Do we stop at allowing 250,000 in? Is there more suffering in the world that then forces us to allow another 500,000 in? How about 1,000,000? There is much suffering across the globe. As humanitarian an issue as this is, we cannot possibly shoulder the moral and financial responsibility to care for all on the planet that are in a bad situation, can we? Legal immigration...of course. I don't think you have to shoulder the responsibility for the whole of humanity, no.....many many other countries, including UK and many others within Europe have more than our fair share of mass immigration by illegal means. We all have a responsibility to a degree, to help those in dire circumstances, although it is hard to find a balance when people in our own countries are struggling too, I do agree I agree with Gar. This kind of situation is happening all around the world. Just one instance is the Syrian refugee children - they are still pouring over the border to Turkey and having to be provided for. As well as government and charity help ordinary people all round Europe are helping provide educational things and clothes etc., to help these children and yet each and every country has their own illegal immigration problems. It is very difficult to find a balance in these circumstances - but what can you do when children are involved.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 10, 2014 19:10:05 GMT
Yes, you have a valid point there. I was referring to the ones who are housed in the detention centers, because those are mostly the ones Obama wants the money for. The children who have family members living in the US and can take the kids, are allowed to do so....and they probably won't show up for their hearing....but then the family has to take care of them so they won't be entirely dependent on govt. handouts.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 18:13:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 19:10:40 GMT
I heard some news report that says the vast majority of these "children" are in fact young boys...14-16yo. So in our hearts, we see the image of a crying woman handing off her toddler to send to the USA in hopes that the child will have a better life. Is that happening? Perhaps.
In 2012, President Obama used his phone and magic pen and issued an Executive Order to delay deportation of minor children illegally in this country. IMO, he couldn't get the Dream Act passed, so he passed his own law (via an executive order) which has totally effed up the entire illegal immigration process and given us the mess that's been building since 2012.
Again, illegal immigration has always been a problem and has always needed attention. Obama tried...failed...and decided to go rogue and do his own thing.
Another epic fail from this President. Everything this administration touches crumbles.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 10, 2014 19:25:14 GMT
Wow. I hope people go read that list. I was blown away by the generosity of some of those countries....I mean, Albania sent $308,000 doesn't sound like much, but I was in Albania 2 weeks ago and believe me they could use that money themselves. Little countries like Palau, Papua New Guinea, Slovenia and Slovakia, the Maldives, Kosovo....countries that literally can't afford it, but they gave. I am humbled by their generosity.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 18:13:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 19:28:18 GMT
And for the record, I lost my entire career and my home when we went into economic collapse. Who did that? WHO DID IT??? Immigrants? refugees? No. The banking industry. This gets overlooked FAR too often
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 10, 2014 19:38:07 GMT
It was an amazing outpouring of generosity. There was so much politicizing and finger pointing afterwards that a lot of this information didn't get a lot of press. But small countries gave, our enemies offered (and as in the case of Cuba, and I think Venezuela? were turned down) and it was humbling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 19:52:15 GMT
I've worked with faith based charities before in providing meals and clothing for people displaced by Katrina. I can guarantee you that if the government stepped aside and asked for donations from these kinds of groups, they'd get a huge response AND it would be done more efficiently.
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elainebenis
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Jul 3, 2014 23:26:11 GMT
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Post by elainebenis on Jul 10, 2014 20:52:08 GMT
He can send all the National Guardsmen he wants and he's never going to be able to secure the border. Never. It's too big, it would cost billions to wall it off, and as soon as you got one part built it would be torn down, or a hole punched through it. There are not enough people to patrol our border, it's 1933 miles long, and that's just the Southern border. And NO President has ever been able to fix this problem.
****
This illegal immigration problem is the result of 35 years of deliberate policy: Make legal immigration onerous and nearly impossible, and use the resulting inevitable influx of undocumented illegals to provide cheap, disposable labor for corporations - to maximize profits, drive down wages and erode unions and workers' rights.
The solution is simple and obvious: serious jail time and monetary fines for anyone - including CEO's - hiring illegals.
Never happen, though. To much money for the 1% in the status quo. Just keep the masses screaming about the filthy, lazy browns.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 21:48:31 GMT
but then the family has to take care of them so they won't be entirely dependent on govt. handouts
^^not here in my town, my state.
They have free healthcare (which cost me about 600/month for my family to have insurance), food stamps and most of these families continue to have more children. I have to drive thru a school zone to get to work. There will be a mom with 6 or 7 kids in tow walking them to school. Free breakfast, free lunch, healthcare, backpack program (school supplies) etc.
Plus they live in subsidized housing. BUT they will have new vehicles with big shiny chrome rims, buckle jeans and smart phones. That is the stuff that pisses me off. I don't care to help someone that will help themselves but your "uptown" habit should not be a burden on my back.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 10, 2014 21:58:34 GMT
but then the family has to take care of them so they won't be entirely dependent on govt. handouts ^^not here in my town, my state. They have free healthcare (which cost me about 600/month for my family to have insurance), food stamps and most of these families continue to have more children. I have to drive thru a school zone to get to work. There will be a mom with 6 or 7 kids in tow walking them to school. Free breakfast, free lunch, healthcare, backpack program (school supplies) etc. Plus they live in subsidized housing. BUT they will have new vehicles with big shiny chrome rims, buckle jeans and smart phones. That is the stuff that pisses me off. I don't care to help someone that will help themselves but your "uptown" habit should not be a burden on my back. As a general rule, "illegal aliens" are not eligible for any kind of benefits. To receive, for example food stamps-which then allows you access to the free lunch program at school, the family must be either a legal, documented immigrant, or a naturalized citizen. While there is some abuse of government assistance, almost all of it requires some kind of proof of citizenship.
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stepht5
Shy Member
Posts: 39
Jul 2, 2014 23:43:49 GMT
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Post by stepht5 on Jul 10, 2014 22:11:30 GMT
From everything I've read. Right now Texas is footing the bill for all the children that have crossed. The Federal govt hasn't given any money...yet. The border towns , particularly McAllen, have taken on most of the costs.
I'm very torn about what needs to be done - I live in Texas.
And we would be quite ignorant if we believed that these are all 'innocent children'.
Stephanie in TX
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Post by straggler on Jul 10, 2014 22:25:15 GMT
I have a suggestion, everyone who thinks the kids should stay should take 1, or I am sure there are sibling groups, take a sibling group into your home and you totally support them. Economically and emotionally. Take a couple of the 14-16 year old boys that are reportedly already gang members. Let them share a room with your boys. You do that and then we will talk about the situation again after a year.
Imagine747...how do you know where I was born or for that matter that I'm white?
Gar...no I don't think we are the only Country with an immigration problem...don't recall saying that. What I said was I haven't heard of any other Country offering to take a plane load of these kids.
GaJenny...couldn't agree more.
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Post by gar on Jul 10, 2014 22:35:23 GMT
I have a suggestion, everyone who thinks the kids should stay should take 1, or I am sure there are sibling groups, take a sibling group into your home and you totally support them. Economically and emotionally. Take a couple of the 14-16 year old boys that are reportedly already gang members. Let them share a room with your boys. You do that and then we will talk about the situation again after a year. Imagine747...how do you know where I was born or for that matter that I'm white? Gar...no I don't think we are the only Country with an immigration problem...don't recall saying that. What I said was I haven't heard of any other Country offering to take a plane load of these kids. GaJenny...couldn't agree more. You said that no other country has offered to take a planeload - seeming to imply that we don't have any of our own illegals to deal with so are therefore able to help you with yours. Most developed countries have massive illegal immigrant problems of their own to deal with - not sure why you think we would or should be taking these kids away by the planeload.
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lavidaloca
Shy Member
Posts: 12
Jun 27, 2014 23:58:20 GMT
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Post by lavidaloca on Jul 10, 2014 22:49:08 GMT
It's funny that our country can ask Congress for this money to help a bunch of people who are here illegally but can't find enough money to adequately help our veterans with out putting them on secret wait lists where they areicky to be seen in the next year. Or adequately fund Child Protection Services so workers aren't so over worked that innocent children here legally get the help they need. And the list goes on with services that are being cut because there is no money to fund them. But wait come here illegally and we can find the money to help you.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 11, 2014 13:12:52 GMT
And you know this, how? Do you know these people personally? Do you know those 6 or 7 kids belong to that one mother, or is she taking care of someone else's kids too? I'm so tired of hearing this kind of stuff thrown around about undocumented workers. Y'all complain that they come here to take jobs away from Americans, and then you claim they're all getting welfare....that's just nonsense. You drive through the school zone to get to work, so how are you privy to which kids in the district are getting free services?
I've known a lot of undocumented workers over the years and I've never met one who was sucking off the system (other than having their kids in public school, but then again, most of their kids were born here so they're entitled to an education) Every one of the immigrants I have known from south of the border, were hardworking family men and women, none of whom actually wanted to stay in the US, they wanted to make enough money to go back home and live without starving to death. They were law abiding people who stayed under the radar because they didn't want to get caught. They paid cash to see the doctor because they didn't want their names to be recorded anywhere. They were too scared to apply for services anywhere. That's not to say there aren't parasites, but I think there a whole lot fewer of them than people think....oh, and a great many of them do pay taxes so they're sharing your burden too.
Conversely, I can show you a lot of American citizens who don't work, drive nice cars, have smart phones and get a welfare check every month. So if you want to be pissed off at a group of people for their 'uptown' habits and who are a burden to you...look no further than your own neighborhood!
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admin
Chatterbox
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Location: testing testing...
Administrator
Jun 25, 2014 19:10:46 GMT
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Post by admin on Jul 11, 2014 13:44:07 GMT
Well...I quoted and added new text...and even added a link and it's not there. I sure wish we could delete our posts. OT hijack - you can. Click on the dropdown arrow next to the gear at the right hand side of the post, and that is one of the options.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 11, 2014 13:51:36 GMT
I have a suggestion, everyone who thinks the kids should stay should take 1, or I am sure there are sibling groups, take a sibling group into your home and you totally support them. Economically and emotionally. Take a couple of the 14-16 year old boys that are reportedly already gang members. Let them share a room with your boys. You do that and then we will talk about the situation again after a year.
Imagine747...how do you know where I was born or for that matter that I'm white? Sure, right after all you patriotic Americans who supported the war in Iraq take a few of the veterans into your home and support them, emotionally and financially, because I'm tired of paying for a war that I was opposed to from the get go.
The fact is we all oppose things our Government spends our tax $ on. As I said previously, the amount of money being requested to take care of these people is being kept within our economic system, it is not leaving the country, and it amounts to approximately two weeks worth of the money spent to sustain the Iraq war. So, if you had a dollar to spend, the cost of this little venture is less than a penny. As a country we can afford that much for humanitarian purposes.
Finally, I don't know where you were born, it doesn't really matter. Nor does it matter whether you're white or not. The comment I made was inclusive....meaning not just me and you (we're not the only two in this discussion) but 'us' as in the majority of people here. Generally speaking, my posts are directed at the group, not the individual I may have quoted.
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Post by threegirls on Jul 11, 2014 14:13:43 GMT
It's not just the Iraq war vets that are getting the shaft. There are many Vietnam vets, Koren vets, WWII vets, etc. that are getting shafted. Many of them are homeless and yet they supported our country when it was needed. It does not matter if you agreed with the war or not. They are legal US citizens who did what we (collectively as a nation) asked them to do and they did it.
What is the long term economic plan for these tens of thousand of kids?
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Post by Skypea on Jul 11, 2014 14:17:20 GMT
"What I don't understand is why we don't send them back?"
because it's not part of bo's plan. better to drain this country dry. Workers here should give their money to these others.
also, there's the thought out there that these are kids of parents who have already come here illegally. They are paying the cartel to bring their kids to them.
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Post by Skypea on Jul 11, 2014 14:29:59 GMT
"It's funny that our country can ask Congress for this money to help a bunch of people who are here illegally but can't find enough money to adequately help our veterans with out putting them on secret wait lists where they areicky to be seen in the next year.'
no, it isn't (in either way). BO is using the 'give me the money' thing and no one has seen the bill yet. he doesn't want them to read it - or really know what it is all for. Just give him the $s and shut up or i'll keep ridiculing you (repubs) etc. don't those on the left see thru that yet? It is so very obvious.
btw, he can easily get the $s from DOD/protect our borders $s - it's there and available to him. He just wants more money - and wants to shame the repubs and other Americans into giving it to him. Even tho HE is the one who brought this all on us.
Who's been saying continually (for yrs) that our border is more secure than it has ever been?
maybe he should ask the IRS to send him a few of those undeserved refund checks... IRS has been sending out about 100B a yr in false refund checks. Who are they sending them to?
cloward and piven...
ETA - btw, the churches are mostly taking care of these kids. ministries across the country are sending trucks of supplies to local churches. they will continue to do so.
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