anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,402
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jul 10, 2014 4:49:37 GMT
Re- reading this thread and remembering an incident over 20 years ago when we lived in another city. We lived on a corner, near a school, and people used to park outside our house to drop off and collect their children. One afternoon, we heard a baby crying, and went outside to discover a carrycot on the pavement with a baby aged about 3 months yelling its head off inside. No sign of anyone around. We brought it indoors and phoned the police. To cut a long story short, the distracted mother had been in a rush to get to an appointment, dentist if I recall correctly, taken the carry cot off its wheels, put them in the boot, and had driven off, in a state of auto pilot. The best bit was that she simply hadn't noticed and had kept the appointment, without realising, as usually her mother minded the baby, so she was used to it not being with her at that time of day.
All was well that ended well and. The police didn't press charges. Her distress was all to evident, and that kind of memory lapse can happen to us all. Quite different from deliberately leaving a child in a car while you run an errand because you are too bone idle to inconvenience yourself with a bit of baby wrangling.
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Post by *Shannon on Jul 10, 2014 5:11:50 GMT
The article mentioned on this thread mentions a device much like the one described above... a big issue with it's implementation was liability - what if it malfunctioned? No one wanted to take on that liability. A group of NASA engineers developed the device and were hopeful that it would take off. Another issue was the concern that it wouldn't sell because of the "I would never let that happen" mentality that so many have.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,432
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Jul 10, 2014 10:47:41 GMT
I think it is fascinating how black and white some people are. Seriously. There is a HUGE difference between intentional and accidental. I wouldn't categorize them as the same, nor should they be punished the same.
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Post by fkawitchypea on Jul 10, 2014 10:50:38 GMT
I don't know how this keeps happening. I do know that when my ds was a baby and in a rear facing carseat, there were a few days where on autopilot I drove directly to my office instead of to his babysitter's house. I was at that a point a single parent, working full time and staying up all night with a baby. Thank God I never left him in the car and usually remembered as soon as I got off the wrong exit.
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Post by justkallie on Jul 10, 2014 11:21:40 GMT
Before I had Finn I felt a lot more confident judging parents who were responsible for instances like this. Parenting has taught me humility, if nothing else. Now I just feel the heartbreak of the parents who have to go on living when such a huge part of them has died because of their mistake. Well put. Others have given so instances where circumstances lead to tragedy. And in most cases, there is no intent to harm. One can argue negligence, but in all honesty, for those parents who found themselves a part of a tragedy, ones where there was no intent or other indications of neglect or abuse, they will likely punish themselves far harsher than any jail. I just wish the legal system was set up with a way to shield manufacturers who would produce a device to help avoid this issue - maybe a good Samaritan law? I don't know the answer, but it is so sad that solutions may exist that are not being implemented on a large scale due to fear of legal reprisals....
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jul 10, 2014 11:29:05 GMT
In the article linked, it mentions one father whose motion sensor alarm went off several times, presumably triggered by the child inside, but he looked out of the office window and couldn't see anyone trying to break in so he switched the alarm off remotely.
These stories are just heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. I can only feel sympathy for those poor poor parents.
Leaving a child in the car on purpose? Totally different story.
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uksue
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,527
Location: London
Jun 25, 2014 22:33:20 GMT
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Post by uksue on Jul 10, 2014 11:40:54 GMT
I did lose track at work once and not realize it was time to pick my son up at school, but I can't imagine leaving my kids in the car. I was always talking to them while we were driving along (of course, I'm one who likes conversation....I talk to the dog when dd is away at college!) So I don't know how you would forget they were there? I forgot my son was in nursery a couple of times when I was busy at work as well. I think in those cases though, you 'know' your child is being looked after so they aren't too of your priority list. When my kids are with ME then THEY are the most important thing at that moment. I do get that people are busy and stressed. I have been in the situation where I had post natal depression but had to go straight back to work because my husband was ill in intensive care and we had no money coming in otherwise . I was tired,stressed, ill myself, was working two jobs but I could never imagine forgetting my child was in the car. When they were young and would fall asleep in the car I still would look at them and check them ( the first two were in the front seat as it was a long time ago, but the third was rear facing in the back and I had a mirror positioned so I could see his face.) It makes you wonder whether these distracted parents would even know if their child had suddenly taken ill in the back. The man who has been accused of doing it deliberately - there are no words. I watched the safety film that was linked on peas last year and I couldn't speak for a long time afterwards. It was only a film, but it was so 'real' and it broke my heart. What a horrible horrible way to die. ETA I'm sorry if I sound judgemental. Yes, we all make mistakes. Fortunately most of them do not endanger a life.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Jul 10, 2014 12:07:14 GMT
Anyone who leaves their child in the car and the child dies should go to jail. Purposely? Yes, of course. Accidently, I disagree. My sister told me a horrifying story a year or so ago. When my son was 18 mos - 2 yrs old he was with either her or my dad for the day for whatever reason, Spending the day with auntie or grandpa may have been babysitting, I don't know, being she was telling me the story 10 yrs later. At some point her and my dad decide to go furniture shopping with the baby. As they are shopping my sister remembers..."ohmygosh, dad!! The baby! J's gonna kill us!" They had forgotten him, still rear facing (he was tiny) and sleeping in the car-- for quite a long time. It wasn't too hot, it wasn't too cold... Luck was on their side. They swore each other to secrecy and even after she confessed- 10 years later!!- my dad played dumb when I asked him about it. Whether it be age and he really didn't remember the incident, or he couldn't bring himself to admit it to me I do not know but I do know that had it been a month or two earlier/ later, the results could have been disastrous. Would I have had a hard time forgiving them. Absolutely. Would I want them in jail/prison? Never.
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Post by PinkPrincess77 on Jul 10, 2014 14:30:48 GMT
There seems to be a lot of arm-chair quarterbacking here. I was that way, before I had kids. I grew up in a physically abusive household where there was also a lot of verbal abuse and yelling. I had the attitude that I would NEVER spank my children and that I would ONLY use time-out as a punishment and that there would NEVER be any yelling towards my kid(s). Until I had a kid where, no matter what we tried, time-out did not work, but a swat on the butt did. While I don't verbally abuse my kids, and am VERY particular about how they are spoken to by anyone, there are times where I HAVE to yell in order to get their attention. I try asking nicely 2-3 times and am ignored, so finally I yell, "QUIT PICKING ON YOUR BROTHER!" or something similar. Just like I used to judge those that left their kids in the car. "Well, I would NEVER...." until I did. Granted, it was only briefly, but I was having a conversation with my oldest, was exhausted, hungry, and we had stopped to get something to eat. We were still talking as we got out of the vehicle and still talking as we 'met' in the back of the car to walk together into the restaurant. In the middle of the parking lot, I remembered that we had brought my youngest with us. He had been sleeping in his rear-facing carseat and I had completely forgotten that he was with us. He was not very old at all and he was just so quiet, due to sleeping, that I just forgot as did my oldest. I felt horrible, but it made me more compassionate towards people who accidentally forget their children in the car. I was lucky, but it could have been much different. Therefore, I'm certainly not going to judge, except for that GA couple, as I think their story is extremely hinky....
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,973
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 10, 2014 15:30:52 GMT
Another way to look at it...I don't ever plan on causing or being in a really bad and/or fatal car accident (with or without my children). I am a pretty good and conscientious driver, don't drink and drive, wear seat-belts (and appropriate car seats), use my blinker, don't text and drive, etc... I take the precautions. Thing is, at 42, I've had enough near misses to know that I've been lucky a few times. I'm sure there are a couple people on this thread who probably believe that THEY WOULD NEVER cause a car accident. However, most of us realize that we are not perfect and it is possible, so we are careful and hope and work for the best outcome. Thing is....nothing is 100% and it could happen to me. Again, There but by the grace of God....
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,069
Jun 25, 2014 21:21:08 GMT
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Post by luckyexwife on Jul 10, 2014 16:15:49 GMT
I think it is fascinating how black and white some people are. I know I shouldn't be, but I am shocked by the absolutes on this thread.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Jul 10, 2014 16:46:11 GMT
There seems to be a lot of arm-chair quarterbacking here. I was that way, before I had kids. I grew up in a physically abusive household where there was also a lot of verbal abuse and yelling. I had the attitude that I would NEVER spank my children and that I would ONLY use time-out as a punishment and that there would NEVER be any yelling towards my kid(s). Until I had a kid where, no matter what we tried, time-out did not work, but a swat on the butt did. While I don't verbally abuse my kids, and am VERY particular about how they are spoken to by anyone, there are times where I HAVE to yell in order to get their attention. I try asking nicely 2-3 times and am ignored, so finally I yell, "QUIT PICKING ON YOUR BROTHER!" or something similar. Just like I used to judge those that left their kids in the car. "Well, I would NEVER...." until I did. Granted, it was only briefly, but I was having a conversation with my oldest, was exhausted, hungry, and we had stopped to get something to eat. We were still talking as we got out of the vehicle and still talking as we 'met' in the back of the car to walk together into the restaurant. In the middle of the parking lot, I remembered that we had brought my youngest with us. He had been sleeping in his rear-facing carseat and I had completely forgotten that he was with us. He was not very old at all and he was just so quiet, due to sleeping, that I just forgot as did my oldest. I felt horrible, but it made me more compassionate towards people who accidentally forget their children in the car. I was lucky, but it could have been much different. Therefore, I'm certainly not going to judge, except for that GA couple, as I think their story is extremely hinky.... If there is one thing I have learned in 53 years it's to NEVER say NEVER!
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 10, 2014 16:49:42 GMT
I have the tv on in the background and just heard the following:
Person 1: "do you judge?"
Person 2: "no, I live in a really big glass house and need no stones thrown at me."
Seemed appropriate for this conversation.
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Post by melanell on Jul 10, 2014 16:51:37 GMT
But to me that is your safeguard then. that's your version of leaving a shoe in the back seat. Your routine is to never close your door without making sure all passengers are out of the vehicle.
It's not that you could never ever forget you had a certain passenger with you so much as it is that you have a routine in place where a constant check is in place to avoid tragedy.
So even if you feel you would never forget, you are still performing a safety routine to be sure. And that's great. It's the people who feel they would never forget and do not perform a safety action that I worry about.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 10, 2014 20:11:51 GMT
It's just heartbreaking. I was taking my son to a class just this morning. It happened to be very close to my old office. We were chatting away, and I pulled into my old parking lot. He looked at me and asked why we were there. Routines can be extremely powerful. My son was SITTING next to me - and I was talking to HIM, and I went into auto-pilot and drove to my office. I really, really hope that people set up a routine for themselves to add an extra level of safety. To blindly believe it can never happen to you is so, so misguided.
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Post by cyndijane on Jul 11, 2014 2:00:08 GMT
There are sensors in my front seats to alert me when I/my passenger don't have a seatbelt on, they should develop something similar when there is weight in the back seat but the key isn't in the ignition. A little beep could save so many lives. This is BRILLIANT. It would have to be calibrated somehow to adjust for the weight of the empty car seat, but this is a good idea! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Post by padresfan619 on Jul 11, 2014 2:05:52 GMT
cyndijane , I was curious last night so I tested it out in my car. I stopped for pizza and beer on the way home. The sensor did not go off with just the pizza on but when I put the 12 pack of beer on the front seat it started beeping. I think it would be very easy to calibrate, or maybe instead of having a loud beep that could potentially wake a child there could be a flashing light on the key fob.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 12:14:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 2:10:02 GMT
This just happened in my town today. A woman went into the grocery store and left her 11 month old in the car. Passerby's heard the baby crying and started trying to break the window when one realized a door was unlocked. The mom came out to find her baby in the Cops arms...15 minutes later. She claims she "forgot" she had her child with her...they also found pot in the car and she tested positive. The baby is now in Foster Care - so grateful passerby's took action.
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Post by Scrapbrat on Jul 11, 2014 2:13:31 GMT
I haven't read all the replies but I did read the linked article several years ago. It changed my mind on this topic forever. I cried when I read that article. It is absolutely heartbreaking.
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