QueenoftheSloths
Drama Llama
Member Since January 2004, 2,698 forum posts PeaNut Number: 122614 PeaBoard Title: StuckOnPeas
Posts: 5,955
Jun 26, 2014 0:29:24 GMT
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Jul 12, 2014 23:43:31 GMT
DH and I have not planned a vacation in over 3 years due to the declining health of first one cat (in my avatar) and now another. While boarding at the vet is an option for us, I have always felt that it is less stressful for them to be in their own home. I don't want to be in the situation the OP's relatives are in now, as nice as a vacation would be.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jul 12, 2014 23:47:09 GMT
As horrible as this sounds, it would have been easier to go on vacation after FIL passed away than when we had to put Kellie down. We weren't able to go an entire day without crying for about a month. ETA: On the other hand, with the FIL's declining health, that makes it a little tougher.
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Post by transprntbutterfly on Jul 13, 2014 0:15:32 GMT
I have no advice for you, as you are clearly in a very difficult situation, but I could not read and run. You have my deepest sympathies on your dad's declining health, and the recent loss of your fur baby. (((Hugs))))
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Leia
Shy Member
Posts: 38
Jul 4, 2014 22:36:29 GMT
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Post by Leia on Jul 13, 2014 0:21:03 GMT
I would not leave the dog.
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Post by chlerbie on Jul 13, 2014 0:36:16 GMT
In a normal situation, I wouldn't be able to go, but with the back story about your dad, I'd definitely have him and the trip take priority.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jul 13, 2014 0:43:42 GMT
In my family, something would be said, esp as I am the older sibling. Dad trumps dog. They need to honour your parents' wishes. If that means SIL stays home & your brother brings your niece, that's preferably to nobody from the family attending the vacation.
While I'm not an animal person, I have enough friends who are that I can get it. They do become a part of your family. But in the end, they can't be elevated above your parents.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jul 13, 2014 0:53:35 GMT
It is not up to you to say anything. I know you are suffering with your dads diagnosis and so is your brother in his own way. Life still goes on though and he has to live his life. Stay out of it. If you step in you will set up resentment and possibly worse. Do you really want to add that into this mix? I agree with this. As much as you want to step up and say something I think it would be a mistake and you could possibly jeopardize your relationship with your brother. Unfortunately I also think that if your brother doesn't do what you think he should do you are going to be harboring resentment towards him later. You need to find a way to get past this. Your parents don't need their children to be divided at this point. The thing is, if my brother became the kind of person who would value a pet more than a parent, I'm not sure he wouldn't be the person he was raised to be, and I'm not sure I'd still WANT a relationship with him. There'd be no relationship to jeopardize because the person I thought I had a relationship clearly doesn't exist. Pets are wonderful. But they aren't more important than our parents, unless our parents were abusive and don't deserve to be called parents. It doesn't sound like the parents in the OP fit in that category.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 13:22:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 1:06:12 GMT
I agree with this. As much as you want to step up and say something I think it would be a mistake and you could possibly jeopardize your relationship with your brother. Unfortunately I also think that if your brother doesn't do what you think he should do you are going to be harboring resentment towards him later. You need to find a way to get past this. Your parents don't need their children to be divided at this point. The thing is, if my brother became the kind of person who would value a pet more than a parent, I'm not sure he wouldn't be the person he was raised to be, and I'm not sure I'd still WANT a relationship with him. There'd be no relationship to jeopardize because the person I thought I had a relationship clearly doesn't exist. Pets are wonderful. But they aren't more important than our parents, unless our parents were abusive and don't deserve to be called parents. It doesn't sound like the parents in the OP fit in that category. The op said though that her father has been given 2-5 years to live. While it is still horrific in that time period regular life still needs to go on. It isn't a matter of weeks or a few months. Maybe that's crass of me but you cannot drop everything for that long. And I find it sad that some would honestly deny them their grief for their pet. It is real and okay to have.
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MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 13, 2014 1:40:51 GMT
IMO, it's none of your business. Your brother has to deal with the consequences of missing this family vacation. It is not your job to protect him from his own decisions.
Personally, I would not go, even given the situation with your dad. After having to put down my beloved girl, I was inconsolable for weeks. I still cry over her, at times, 10 years later. I'm now have a middle-aged dog with health issues. When the time comes, I will be devastated.
Going on vacation would be the absolute last thing I wanted to do. Plus, I would not be good company anyway.
Really, what happens if they do as you think they should, go on the vacation and then, you have to deal with inconsolable children and morose siblings/in-law? Then, you will complain that they couldn't suck it up, in order to allow your parents to have a good time.
No win situation for your brother & his family any way it plays out.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Jul 13, 2014 1:46:26 GMT
I guess I would advise that you do/say what you need to your brother in order to feel comfortable with your roll in the situation. And then let your brother decide for himself what he wants to do. It is a terrible situation all the way around, and just because you could picture going on vacation after putting down your dog, doesn't mean that he can. So, do what you need to do and understand when he does what he needs to do, even if it isn't what you would choose. My answer is also along the same lines as Elaine's. If you think you should point out the reminder that your dad might not have much time left either and that your parents have already committed money to covering everyone's trip, then I would do so --- in a gentle, "hey have you thought about this" kind of way. And then let it go. Whatever decision he makes, be prepared to live with it even if you don't agree with it. And just for the record, I would always choose the people over the pets. I have had pets I have dearly loved but they never trump the people in my life.
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Post by *Scrapper*Stamper* on Jul 13, 2014 1:50:26 GMT
Really?? I despise you and your opinion - who the fuck are you to tell me to put my dog down? I would despise you and anything you said!!!
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Post by katiekaty on Jul 13, 2014 2:10:07 GMT
Really?? I despise you and your opinion - who the fuck are you to tell me to put my dog down? I would despise you and anything you said!!! It really is no one's business but the brother and his family. My dogs would come before a trip if their health was failing. Those two pups have been through so much with me these past couple years, always offering their comfort and love while I was suffering with pains and aches and illness while receiving diagnoses and trying new meds. I would give them their last few minutes on earth with me by their side. And I would be pissed if anyone told me "to put them down" just for a vacation. And daddy does have possibly another 2-5 years. I am sure their will be other opportunities to get together and celebrate dad's life. If family cannot allow this brother and his family to deal with their grief, they are very selfish and maybe not worth vacationing with.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,168
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Jul 13, 2014 3:49:56 GMT
I don't think that anyone gets to tell anyone else how to grieve. If they feel like they need to be home with their dog, that's their right. If your dad had been given 2-3 weeks, I might see your point, but 2-5 years? No.
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Post by gryroagain on Jul 13, 2014 4:40:08 GMT
A family member with years, and is a human capable of phone calls, understanding a diagnosis, etc is very different than dog dying. The dog has days. The dog doesn't understand "I love you", but it knows the presence of those it loves. It is lost and inconsolable without it's people. It has given it's life over to loving those in it's family. It's not choosing a dog over dad, IMO, it's about choosing who needs them now- and that is the dog, with the information given. vacation time can be rearranged, but the dog is going now. The dog can't understand, the people can.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,983
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 13, 2014 4:51:25 GMT
Thanks for most of your opinions. I didn't say anything. I'm not sure what the verdict is for sil and niece. My brother isn't going.
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ingrid
Full Member
Posts: 490
Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Jul 13, 2014 5:30:33 GMT
Really?? I despise you and your opinion - who the fuck are you to tell me to put my dog down? I would despise you and anything you said!!! It's always nice to see people taking the time to contribute a calm, rational, insightful opinion like this to a thread. What I would say is, "Sean, (that's my brother's name and only a freakish coincidence if your brother is named Sean) I totally understand why you want to stay home and be with (dog's name). I'm just so worried this is the last chance we'll get to take a trip with Dad. Can you think of any possible way that we can go on this trip together as a family? Is there anything we can do to accommodate (dog's name) and keep him comfortable? I think this last trip with Dad being somewhat healthy is going to mean so much to us when he's gone and I don't want to go without you. Of course you want to stay with your pet, but can you think of anything I can do to make it possible for you all to come?" Your brother could be so focused on the dog and how upset his family is about the whole thing that he isn't thinking about the fact that this could be the last family trip with your father. If you don't suggest that the trip is more important than the dog, he's less likely to get defensive. I'm so sorry your family is going through a difficult time.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jul 13, 2014 6:12:07 GMT
Really?? I despise you and your opinion - who the fuck are you to tell me to put my dog down? I would despise you and anything you said!!! It's always nice to see people taking the time to contribute a calm, rational, insightful opinion like this to a thread. What I would say is, "Sean, (that's my brother's name and only a freakish coincidence if your brother is named Sean) I totally understand why you want to stay home and be with (dog's name). I'm just so worried this is the last chance we'll get to take a trip with Dad. Can you think of any possible way that we can go on this trip together as a family? Is there anything we can do to accommodate (dog's name) and keep him comfortable? I think this last trip with Dad being somewhat healthy is going to mean so much to us when he's gone and I don't want to go without you. Of course you want to stay with your pet, but can you think of anything I can do to make it possible for you all to come?" Your brother could be so focused on the dog and how upset his family is about the whole thing that he isn't thinking about the fact that this could be the last family trip with your father. If you don't suggest that the trip is more important than the dog, he's less likely to get defensive. I'm so sorry your family is going through a difficult time. Well said, Ingrid. I guess my concern is three-fold: One, mom & dad have already put out the money for this trip. Obviously it's important to them - important enough that they're taking money that they could be putting aside for Dad's care to ensure that the family has this time together. Two, what if dad doesn't have 2-5 years left? If one could be sure of that, I would feel differently, because then it might be possible to reschedule/postpone the trip. But anything can happen. Dad may take a sudden turn for the worst and have 2-5 months or weeks left. And then his son has sent the message that he's not a priority. Three, for all they know they could go for part of the trip, with the dog kept at the vet's and be home before the dog passes. I can't speak for others, but I wasn't suggesting putting the dog down just to be free to go on vacation. I was suggesting they could come home early if the dog passes while they're away. Them being home with the dog isn't going to help it. The vet is the best place for it. But it will help dad to have the family time.
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craftchickapowpow
Full Member
My Circus My Monkeys
Posts: 206
Jun 26, 2014 16:12:18 GMT
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Post by craftchickapowpow on Jul 13, 2014 6:57:31 GMT
their dog and their decision. My sister decided to show my step mom just how much she disliked her as SM was on her death bed. I called my sister out on it and consequently we have not spoken in nearly two years. Her daughters (with whom I thought I was extremely close) also have no contact with me. I lost and so will you. Let it go. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this.
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Post by justkallie on Jul 13, 2014 7:55:11 GMT
I think what is being lost is that this isn't just "any" trip - at least not to the parents. This may be the "last" trip - a chance to spend quality time with the entire family while her father still has the ability to do so. While I am sure the dog is a much beloved member of the family, to put it in front of one's own mother and father, knowing the diagnosis your Dad has, I just don't get it, and probably never will, and I have had to watch a parent die from terminal disease and I have been a pet owner who has had to put a loved pet down. At the end of the day, you have the opportunity to have many pets throughout the course of your life - how many Dads will you have?
OP - I would say something, because I would not be able to live with my parents disappointment and I would do everything I could to bring happiness to their lives, even if it meant pissing off my brother... but that it me...
ETA - I was just thinking, and how many people here, if they were given a terminal diagnosis and planned a trip of a lifetime with their kids knowing that it might be the last time you would have the freedom, lack of pain, mobility and cognition to enjoy an adventure and your family altogether in one place, something you have looked forward to for a while - how many of you would be devastated if you got a call a few weeks before and were told your son/daughter and their family were no longer coming because of a dog? That a dog is now more important to your child than the people who birthed and raised them? How would you feel for your spouse, who might be the one with the terminal diagnosis - could you tell them the bad news and deal with his/her disappointment knowing it was your own children who did the disappointing? To me, if I couldn't handle the ramifications of someone doing it to me, I probably shouldn't do it to someone else.
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Post by jamieson on Jul 13, 2014 8:24:08 GMT
Justkallie, you can't force someone to behave the way you want them to. They don't see it the same way as others, and that is their right.
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Post by justkallie on Jul 13, 2014 8:36:02 GMT
Justkallie, you can't force someone to behave the way you want them to. They don't see it the same way as others, and that is their right. The OP asked if she should say something. I am of the mindset that she should and why I think she should. I can't change the response she would receive from her brother, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't try... I am just giving different perspectives that people might not think about. I think society as a whole is moving away from the familial unit - it seems so many things seem to be coming before people these days...
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Jul 13, 2014 8:47:22 GMT
I think what is being lost is that this isn't just "any" trip - at least not to the parents. This may be the "last" trip - a chance to spend quality time with the entire family while her father still has the ability to do so. While I am sure the dog is a much beloved member of the family, to put it in front of one's own mother and father, knowing the diagnosis your Dad has, I just don't get it, and probably never will, and I have had to watch a parent die from terminal disease and I have been a pet owner who has had to put a loved pet down. At the end of the day, you have the opportunity to have many pets throughout the course of your life - how many Dads will you have? OP - I would say something, because I would not be able to live with my parents disappointment and I would do everything I could to bring happiness to their lives, even if it meant pissing off my brother... but that it me... ETA - I was just thinking, and how many people here, if they were given a terminal diagnosis and planned a trip of a lifetime with their kids knowing that it might be the last time you would have the freedom, lack of pain, mobility and cognition to enjoy an adventure and your family altogether in one place, something you have looked forward to for a while - how many of you would be devastated if you got a call a few weeks before and were told your son/daughter and their family were no longer coming because of a dog? That a dog is now more important to your child than the people who birthed and raised them? How would you feel for your spouse, who might be the one with the terminal diagnosis - could you tell them the bad news and deal with his/her disappointment knowing it was your own children who did the disappointing? To me, if I couldn't handle the ramifications of someone doing it to me, I probably shouldn't do it to someone else. That's not a fair comparison, and like someone has said before you can't judge someone else's grief. Of course dogs and humans aren't comparable, but sometimes things happen. My dog was almost 14 years old, he was like my child. And in that moment, if I knew my dog was dying soon, but my Dad had 2-5 years left, I would choose my dog. I was heart broken. My family was heart broken for me. It's not as simple as saying put the dog down now and move on. I would NOT put my dog down until it was time. Maybe it's not the right time - that's between them and their Vet. OP, I'm sorry about your father. I really am - I can't even imagine. But I don't think that your brother choosing to stay with his declining dog has any correlation to his feelings and grief over your/his father.
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Post by jamieson on Jul 13, 2014 8:47:31 GMT
For all we know, they are working through their dad's illness through their dog's illness. Maybe that's how they are coping, and that's how their family is moving forward through their loss. Who cares what society says, they're most often wrong in my opinion.
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Post by jamieson on Jul 13, 2014 8:51:01 GMT
I also have to point out that their beloved dog is a big part of their "familial unit."
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Post by justkallie on Jul 13, 2014 8:56:47 GMT
I think it was entirely a fair comparison - just a shoe being on the other foot and instead of being the one cancelling, it is the perspective of being cancelled on. It sounds much worse to be the one cancelled on, especially by your own child, and that may be the way her parents perceive it - fair or not to her brother/their son.
Again, this will be a forever agree to disagree because I have clearly stated my decision making process (humans always trump pets), and that is something my family and I have come to agreement on (yes, we have actually discussed this due to other extended familial members decisions), given the life experiences we have had. And I am of the mindset that you say something now rather than risk putting yourself in a situation where you could say "if only I did".
ETA - I have had 4 dogs and 5 cats over my lifetime and one Dad. My dad died at 53 from a horrible, terminal cancer diagnosis and I would have gladly given up every pet I ever had to have had more time with my Dad. To me, as horrible as losing a pet is, you can, when you are ready, have another pet. I will NEVER have another Dad, and to place them on equal footing is just something I will personally never understand.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jul 13, 2014 9:14:04 GMT
I think it was entirely a fair comparison - just a shoe being on the other foot and instead of being the one cancelling, it is the perspective of being cancelled on. It sounds much worse to be the one cancelled on, especially by your own child, and that may be the way her parents perceive it - fair or not to her brother/their son. Again, this will be a forever agree to disagree because I have clearly stated my decision making process (humans always trump pets), and that is something my family and I have come to agreement on (yes, we have actually discussed this due to other extended familial members decisions), given the life experiences we have had. And I am of the mindset that you say something now rather than risk putting yourself in a situation where you could say "if only I did". ETA - I have had 4 dogs and 5 cats over my lifetime and one Dad. My dad died at 53 from a horrible, terminal cancer diagnosis and I would have gladly given up every pet I ever had to have had more time with my Dad. To me, as horrible as losing a pet is, you can, when you are ready, have another pet. I will NEVER have another Dad, and to place them on equal footing is just something I will personally never understand. Well said, Kallie. To those saying he has 2-5 years... what if that diagnosis is wrong? What if he has 6 months? Or only 3? This trip may be the last chance to be with dad. I think it sends an awful message.
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Post by Really Red on Jul 13, 2014 14:50:59 GMT
This isn't to justify saying anything or not, but last summer, my mom got an illness that said she had maybe 4 good years left and possibly up to 6. But her system was down and she got another disease and was gone in 2 weeks. Perfectly healthy (in appearance and actions) and then gone.
We never ever know how long someone has. Sometimes it's almost a gift when we're told a certain amount of time left. I'm sorry for your dad, OP, and for your family. I love my dog with a passion few can understand and I would do anything for him. ANYTHING. Except put a person I loved above him. I would put someone I didn't care about a lot after him, but not someone I loved. It is situations like the one you're in, OP, that tell you the true colors of a person. I hope that things work out for you, but I know this choice will color everyone's opinion of your brother (everyone in your family).
It would not bother me if a friend - even a good friend - of mine put their animal over anything we were planning on doing. It would bother me if my parents or children did. I might even be okay with my sister doing it to ME, but not to our parents.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 13, 2014 14:53:51 GMT
This isn't to justify saying anything or not, but last summer, my mom got an illness that said she had maybe 4 good years left and possibly up to 6. But her system was down and she got another disease and was gone in 2 weeks. Perfectly healthy (in appearance and actions) and then gone. We never ever know how long someone has. Sometimes it's almost a gift when we're told a certain amount of time left. I'm sorry for your dad, OP, and for your family. I love my dog with a passion few can understand and I would do anything for him. ANYTHING. Except put a person I loved above him. I would put someone I didn't care about a lot after him, but not someone I loved. It is situations like the one you're in, OP, that tell you the true colors of a person. I hope that things work out for you, but I know this choice will color everyone's opinion of your brother (everyone in your family). It would not bother me if a friend - even a good friend - of mine put their animal over anything we were planning on doing. It would bother me if my parents or children did. I might even be okay with my sister doing it to ME, but not to our parents. I'm so sorry for your loss Really Red. Thank you for sharing.
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Post by mikklynn on Jul 13, 2014 15:02:29 GMT
I think you should stay out of it. I don't see it ending well if you talk to them about it.
ETA - I am so sorry about your dad. I hope he does as well as possible.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
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Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 13, 2014 15:13:08 GMT
Really Red. I'm sorry for your loss. IPF can have many complications. There is no real defined time frame. He could last ten years and he could be gone tomorrow. He will likely die of IPF within five years. However, it is very common not to die of the disease but complications of the disease before one actually succumbs to no longer being able to breath due to the lung lesions.
My uncle has the same diagnosis and prognosis (yes, it can be hereditary...yay, me!), and he just had a heart attack a couple weeks ago (recovering). This trip is also revolving around a family wedding/reunion where my uncle will be as well.
We hope to have a couple more family vacations. I sure hope we do.
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