rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,137
Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Jun 4, 2015 12:56:39 GMT
i thought it was 1 in 4 girls actually. and the part about someone they know doesn't surprise me at all, it's all about access.
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Post by elaine on Jun 4, 2015 12:57:23 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life.
If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news.
This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences.
To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd.
The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing.
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Post by rainangel on Jun 4, 2015 13:01:21 GMT
From what I understand, this family made the decision to appear in the show AFTER Josh sexually assaulted the girls. To me it seems to be another smack in the face for the girls to go on television after being sexually abused by their brother, to pretend they are a happy family living the perfect life. Would it not be hard for the girls to realize that their parents are putting them on television and showing the tv-audience how 'perfect' their lives are?
Then there is the smack in the face that comes this week, with all of this being released to the public. So yeah... honestly, the girls are the ones suffering from this coming out now. But I truly hope this will also start a process for the girls where their story comes out, someone believes them, someone does not shame them and guilt them for this happening. From what I have read so far, it has been all about Josh. I hope now, the girls will have someone in THEIR corner actually telling them they did nothing wrong and Josh is a molester, and that's all on him.
These girls need to start healing. And it must be extremely hard trying to heal when your molester is paraded on television like the perfect son and father, and you just have to sit and smile and not say a word about what he really is. Is it beneficial that these reports are coming out now? It's probably really hard for the girls RIGHT NOW. But at least there is a chance of being heard, being believed and ending the adulation of the molester, and those who defended him, on a world-wide syndicated tv-show.
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Post by peano on Jun 4, 2015 13:06:20 GMT
I thought it was 1 out of 4 girls and 1 out of 6 boys. I think boys don't come forward as much, but they probably go through it almost as much as girls do. These were the numbers I found when I was doing research for my master's thesis on this topic in the early 90s.
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caro
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Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Jun 4, 2015 13:10:09 GMT
Oh but wait.............Jim Bob said the girls didn't even know they had been touched until they were told by the parents. And then all those *safeguards * were put in place like, all the girls sleep in the same room fully clothed. No hide and seek games, no two children going off alone together. Josh being watched constantly ( although I agree with that one).
Ugh makes me sick.
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oaksong
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Jun 27, 2014 6:24:29 GMT
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Post by oaksong on Jun 4, 2015 13:24:50 GMT
Oprah had a show with 100 men who had been abused as boys. A man I knew revealed to me and other colleagues before the show aired that he was going to be on it. It was then that I realized how pervasive sexual abuse is for both girls and boys. Many of the victims never tell.
Whenever there is a news story about a heinous crime, or someone who inexplicably "snapped", I think to myself, "there's one of those abused children who never healed." It messes people up, often permanently. In my opinion, the sexual abuse of children is not only a horrific secret for the victims to bear, but a poison to society that affects all of us.
I hope the Duggar girls will be able to find some measure of peace, but I don't see how that will be possible within their unenlightened culture.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jun 4, 2015 13:31:43 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. I agree with everything you said with one exception. Five people who were abused are now exposed to the public attention and this media circus. They had no say in that. After all of this goes away, and it will, the public will move onto the next scandal where does it leave the victims? Can any good come out of this for them? If not, then what does publically destroying this family accomplish? Had this happened back in 2006 maybe it would be different. These victims have been failed not only by their parents but by the system over and over again. I can't help but think if they wonder if this nightmare will ever end for them.
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Post by roundtwo on Jun 4, 2015 14:23:12 GMT
@kelkeller, I would need to know who this person is before I can decide if they did consider the victims or not. Maybe they saw some things going on in that home that related to these crimes and they felt that the only way the girls were going to get any chance of help was to get the story out there. I agree that it should be up to the victims to decide when or if they wanted their story told but from the evidence I have seen, that was never going to be an option for these girls.
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caro
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Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Jun 4, 2015 15:12:42 GMT
@kelkeller, I would need to know who this person is before I can decide if they did consider the victims or not. Maybe they saw some things going on in that home that related to these crimes and they felt that the only way the girls were going to get any chance of help was to get the story out there. I agree that it should be up to the victims to decide when or if they wanted their story told but from the evidence I have seen, that was never going to be an option for these girls. It's entirely possible it was one of the victims that finally reported it to someone who DID the right thing.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 4, 2015 15:30:51 GMT
Maybe they had already found peace. It may be an unenlightened culture, but the older ones are chosen to stay in its confines.
Maybe the girls wanted it kept secret or maybe it didn't bother them the way we seem to think it should. They were raised differently.
I could never live or act the way they do even before this came to light. It isn't for me and I found their beliefs to be small minded and controlling, but it seems to have worked for them. Maybe the counseling and the safeguards worked for the dynamics of this family. Maybe the girls had moved on. We shouldn't get to tell them they hadn't or that they needed more.
Or maybe a couple of the girls are okay and a couple are not. Each girl should be able to feel whatever she wants about it. Each girl should get to do whatever she needs to heal.
But I already hear people judging the two girls who will be interviewed.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 4, 2015 15:32:32 GMT
As we've been discussing this over time on here, I know I have mentioned that when I was in practice, I did not have a single child molestation case where the defendant and victim or victims did not know each other well, and in all of the cases except for one, the victim and defendant were related by blood or marriage.
What you are watching in slo-mo disgusting action is why the only one of my cases where the defendant was convicted was the one with the unrelated defendant (although, again, the defendant was well-known to the victims and their families and the victims had actually left their preteens in the care of my late-teen client on purpose all day every day for several months). We think of child molesters as creeps lurking under bridges because evidently those are the only people we're actually willing to prosecute.
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Post by auntkelly on Jun 4, 2015 15:33:02 GMT
In the 1990s when I was living in OK, i used to sit on what was then called the Foster Care Review Board. We were a board created by statute to review the cases of children in the foster care system. It was so upsetting to see the percentage of kids in the foster care system who had been sexually abused and how little was done for those kids. What struck me was that in many cases the abuser was receiving treatment, but the child was not receiving any treatment at all.
I hope that the Duggar scandal might shine some light on just how many kids in the US are sexually abused and how little is done for those kids. I know there are a lot of charities and governmental agencies trying to help those kids, but it seems to me most of those kids fall through the cracks and get very little counseling, if any at all.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Jun 4, 2015 15:43:40 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. Oh, I totally agree!! They are not innocent for sure!!!!!! I do not feel I am absurd or wrong in my feelings about the person that put this out there. They did NOT need to bring this to light and were wrong and cruel (to the victims) in doing so. On a personal note, I completely respect and in fact, look up to you and your views on many things considering your profession. See, I think it DID need to be put out there. Josh was working for a very big anti-LGBT organization out there and was voraciously campaigning against gay marriage, and his mother was campaigning against LGBT interests as well. They were publicly calling these people perverts and deviants and yet they had a legitimate deviant pervert right in their own family. They NEEDED to be exposed for their utter hypocrisy. The fact that the girls have gotten caught in the fallout is entirely the responsibility of Josh, Michelle and Jimbob.
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kelly8875
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Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Jun 4, 2015 15:45:35 GMT
Whether or not the girls knew about it when it was happening, the fact that it's public now for them is heart wrenching to me. The victims don't deserve this. Josh is to blame, along with anyone who was an adult that tried to sweep this away.
At least 2 of the girls are out of the house now. I hope their new husbands can keep them protected and safe from all of this.
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Post by Kelpea on Jun 4, 2015 17:14:02 GMT
In this day and age, with all the information resources out there, we should no longer be surprised by that fact. Sadly, most victims know their abuser. It's time for helicopter parents to stop worrying about the evil strangers out there and take stock of those they know and trust around their children.
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Peamac
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Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Jun 4, 2015 17:18:10 GMT
At least 2 of the girls are out of the house now. I hope their new husbands can keep them protected and safe from all of this. Those are the two that were also interviewed by Megyn - it airs Friday night.
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scorpeao
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Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Jun 4, 2015 17:25:26 GMT
It doesn't surprise me. I was fondled as a child by my step-grandfather (didn't really know he was a step until I was older). In talking with friends, quite a few were also fondled by step-grandfathers.
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marimoose
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Jul 22, 2014 2:10:14 GMT
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Post by marimoose on Jun 4, 2015 17:39:50 GMT
Five people who were abused are now exposed to the public attention and this media circus. They had no say in that. After all of this goes away, and it will, the public will move onto the next scandal where does it leave the victims? Can any good come out of this for them? If not, then what does publically destroying this family accomplish?Had this happened back in 2006 maybe it would be different. These victims have been failed not only by their parents but by the system over and over again. I can't help but think if they wonder if this nightmare will ever end for them.
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Post by foolana on Jun 4, 2015 17:43:12 GMT
If this crime had been reported to the police and been allowed to go through the court system, the records would have been sealed because the victims were minors. Because the Duggars "dealt" with it their way (whatever the hell that means) the police record remained public.
Don't blame the messenger. Blame the Duggars.
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LeaP
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Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jun 4, 2015 17:50:55 GMT
See, I think it DID need to be put out there. Josh was working for a very big anti-LGBT organization out there and was voraciously campaigning against gay marriage, and his mother was campaigning against LGBT interests as well. They were publicly calling these people perverts and deviants and yet they had a legitimate deviant pervert right in their own family. They NEEDED to be exposed for their utter hypocrisy. The fact that the girls have gotten caught in the fallout is entirely the responsibility of Josh, Michelle and Jimbob. I can not begin to say the words I want to say about Josh and his hypocritical JUNK!!!! His flaunting around looking down on people makes me just sick ...etc....etc..... We will just have to respectfully agree to disagree on the fact that this needed exposed. I suppose the girls can be described as "collateral damage" in all of this. I'm a live and let live person. If someone is happy and secure in their fundamentalist cocoon more power to them. The Duggar daughters, however, were not secure and the parents chose to parade them on television as an ideal family anyway. Add in Michelle's robocalls and Josh's work at the Family Research Council and the hypocricy is off the charts. I'm all for role models, but please find more people like the Little Couple and vet too good to be true sanctimonious liars.
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Post by krc11 on Jun 4, 2015 17:51:53 GMT
I still feel very very sorry for those girls to have been placed on that show to act like they were a big happy family. I think that was extremely cruel of their parents to do to them.
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Post by scrappintoee on Jun 4, 2015 18:07:39 GMT
One of my best friends is a Sexual Assault Nurse (they go by the title "S.A.N.E.")....sadly, most of her victims are children, she's even cared for a BABY victim ..... She gets calls 24/7 to go to Emergency Rooms to examine these precious kiddies...I don't know how she and the other nurses do it !!!! !! One aspect she loves about her job is when she testifies in court & the abusers get sent to prison! She looked up sexual offenders in just her zip code, and was horribly SHOCKED!!!! I did the same for my zip code (much smaller city), and was shocked, too!!! And those are just the ones who've been CAUGHT !!!
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Post by maryland on Jun 4, 2015 18:15:12 GMT
I thought it was 1 out of 4 girls and 1 out of 6 boys. I think boys don't come forward as much, but they probably go through it almost as much as girls do. The girls should not have to pay for whatever their parents and Josh did wrong, but they are and the media and people are making it much worse for them. They ARE being victimized over again, not as severe as being sexually abused, but it's still horrible. I thought the same thing (1 in 4 and 1 in 6) as well as hearing it happens to boys more often than we know because they are less likely to come forward. Also, I have read that those that abuse may have been abused themselves. I do wonder if anything ever happened to Josh as a child. So sad for the other girls and boys in the family.
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Post by maryland on Jun 4, 2015 18:20:25 GMT
Oh but wait.............Jim Bob said the girls didn't even know they had been touched until they were told by the parents. And then all those *safeguards * were put in place like, all the girls sleep in the same room fully clothed. No hide and seek games, no two children going off alone together. Josh being watched constantly ( although I agree with that one). Ugh makes me sick. Those poor girls! That makes it sound like the girls were being punished (all had to be in same room, no hide and seek, etc.) so the parents could "protect" Jo Instead of getting him help outside the home. Just my opinion though, not saying I am right, just my thoughts.
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tincin
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Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jun 4, 2015 18:21:29 GMT
Oh but wait.............Jim Bob said the girls didn't even know they had been touched until they were told by the parents. And then all those *safeguards * were put in place like, all the girls sleep in the same room fully clothed. No hide and seek games, no two children going off alone together. Josh being watched constantly ( although I agree with that one). Ugh makes me sick. Well that sounds like a nice normal childhood. "Here darling daughters, you must sleep fully clothed so your brother doesn't molest you again." As if he couldn't feel them up through the clothing. Asshats.
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tincin
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Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jun 4, 2015 18:27:02 GMT
I will say that as a young child I was molested by a relative. I am not embarrassed by that fact. I am not ashamed of that fact. The shame is all his. If I were held up and robbed, I would not be ashamed. I think until we speak as freely about our sexual abuse as we would any other crime perpetrated against us, victims will continue to feel the shame and embarrassment of the crime.
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Post by Skypea on Jun 4, 2015 18:38:03 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. they are guilty of believing what they were told - that the juvenile records were sealed.
the parents did not do NOTHING. Evidently, we watched different interviews. Did you actually watch it? watch with a bias?
There were things Megyn didn't want to bring out and further identify which girls were involved.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Jun 4, 2015 19:19:13 GMT
I will say that as a young child I was molested by a relative. I am not embarrassed by that fact. I am not ashamed of that fact. The shame is all his. If I were held up and robbed, I would not be ashamed. I think until we speak as freely about our sexual abuse as we would any other crime perpetrated against us, victims will continue to feel the shame and embarrassment of the crime. I understand what you are saying, but here's my reply from the other Duggar thread: Well, as a victim of repeated sexual abuse when I was a teen, I'd have to disagree with you. While I might have nothing to be ashamed of, I don't want the world to know about my personal past. It is my story to tell, if or when I decide to. Sex crimes affect victims very differently than theft or other crimes do. If Josh's crime had been to steal something from a store a couple times when he was a young teen, it wouldn't be the news that this is. Sex crimes leave very private and personal scars, and I should be able to decide who I want to share that with.I am a very private person and have no desire for the world to know about losing my innocence because of someone else's actions. He was a relative in my home, and while I have forgiven him, etc etc, it is my choice to make the information known or not. If I were in the same shoes as Josh's victims, I would not want the spotlight to be on me. I would not want my parents to be on tv discussing how I feel or what counselling I may or may not have received. I'm not saying that that is how the Duggar girls feel, but everyone here seems to be raking JimBob and Michelle over the coals for not talking much about their daughters. Maybe their reason is because the girls don't want to be discussed. As I said, I wouldn't. Each victim is different and responds to abuse differently. We need to understand that what works for one victim is not helpful for another.
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Post by Skypea on Jun 4, 2015 19:22:39 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. I agree with everything you said with one exception. Five people who were abused are now exposed to the public attention and this media circus. They had no say in that. After all of this goes away, and it will, the public will move onto the next scandal where does it leave the victims? Can any good come out of this for them? If not, then what does publically destroying this family accomplish?
Had this happened back in 2006 maybe it would be different. These victims have been failed not only by their parents but by the system over and over again. I can't help but think if they wonder if this nightmare will ever end for them. a lot of people have been able to attack, attack and attack a family lifestyle they don't agree with or understand ... people they don't like.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 4, 2015 19:28:49 GMT
Skypea, I'm curious: how in the heck does what you wrote in your latest post even remotely connect to the text you have highlighted in blue??
and why is it that you seem to always try to get the threads you post in off-track from what the actual thread topic is??
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