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Post by foolana on Jun 4, 2015 19:57:27 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. they are guilty of believing what they were told - that the juvenile records were sealed.
the parents did not do NOTHING. Evidently, we watched different interviews. Did you actually watch it? watch with a bias?
There were things Megyn didn't want to bring out and further identify which girls were involved.
As usual, you see the opposite of what was there. Who exactly told them the record was sealed?
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Post by foolana on Jun 4, 2015 19:59:16 GMT
I agree with everything you said with one exception. Five people who were abused are now exposed to the public attention and this media circus. They had no say in that. After all of this goes away, and it will, the public will move onto the next scandal where does it leave the victims? Can any good come out of this for them? If not, then what does publically destroying this family accomplish?
Had this happened back in 2006 maybe it would be different. These victims have been failed not only by their parents but by the system over and over again. I can't help but think if they wonder if this nightmare will ever end for them. a lot of people have been able to attack, attack and attack a family lifestyle they don't agree with or understand ... people they don't like.
You must be referring to yourself. No one here attacks things they don't agree with more than you, except maybe lynlam. It's a tie for worst, I guess.
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Post by penny on Jun 4, 2015 20:08:26 GMT
It hurts me so much that it could have still been the same big, headline grabbing, scandalous news story without the victims identities being revealed... I feel like whoever redacted that document was sloppy - a few more small redactions and the fact that it was his sisters would have never gotten out...
He should answer, the parents should answer, the police, the church - everyone except for those girls/women... This story should be about their brother, parents, and all that's wrong there and it should have been their choice to reveal how they were involved...
Just because Josh and his parents handled it horrendously doesn't mean that the person who poorly redacted the document or the media who revealed identifying information did the right thing...
Re victimizing those girls/women was unnecessary to the story...
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 4, 2015 20:24:39 GMT
I agree with everything you said with one exception. Five people who were abused are now exposed to the public attention and this media circus. They had no say in that. After all of this goes away, and it will, the public will move onto the next scandal where does it leave the victims? Can any good come out of this for them? If not, then what does publically destroying this family accomplish?
Had this happened back in 2006 maybe it would be different. These victims have been failed not only by their parents but by the system over and over again. I can't help but think if they wonder if this nightmare will ever end for them. a lot of people have been able to attack, attack and attack a family lifestyle they don't agree with or understand ... people they don't like.
This is a load of crap. I have never attacked the Duggars. Never. Even when though I think Michelle's robocalls were really horrible, I believe she has the right to her opinion. But I will never defend a family that allowed this in their home. Did you watch the interview? Did you hear them say he confessed to doing it? Then they did not take him out of the home and he did it three more times? Did you hear them say that *some* of the times the girls were in bed sleeping, but *some* of the time they were awake during this? Not that that makes it any better if they were asleep. Did you hear them say *some* of the time it was through their clothes but *some* of the time it was under their clothes? Not that that makes a difference either as it's all sick. But really, they knew they had this predator in their home and they gave him another opportunity to do it again. You think that's OK? You think a kid at 14 & 15 years old does not know right from wrong? He clearly did as he confessed to this behavior. The only thing that is about their lifestyle is how they chose to deal with this. And the way they did it was wrong. I would have had total respect had they come out and said, "we handled this wrong. We should have done X, Y, and Z. We learned. We made sure everyone in our home had counseling by a licensed professional." But they didn't. They defended Josh up and down. Even when Megyn Kelly attempted to redirect them to think about how the victims might feel, they brought it back to Josh. They showed no sympathy for what their daughters went through. And then to say that they think it's because of an agenda that these reports were requested. That's right, they want to claim persecution. No, this is the price of fame. Those records were requested under the Freedom of Information Act. If they were illegally obtained, then I imagine justice will be served in that matter. But I cannot see anyone releasing anything like this without dotting their i's and crossing their t's to make sure it was the legal thing to do. I felt no sympathy for the JimBob, Michelle, or Josh. Only their daughters. And the more I read, the more I think maybe it is time that the media shines a light on their "lifestyle" especially given how many people JimBob referenced last night who have had similar or worse things happen in their families. Maybe their "lifestyle" is contributing to this sort of behavior. And how about that idiot they follow, he was a sex criminal too. I don't care what your lifestyle is, a crime is a crime.
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Post by elaine on Jun 4, 2015 20:28:04 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. Oh, I totally agree!! They are not innocent for sure!!!!!! I do not feel I am absurd or wrong in my feelings about the person that put this out there. They did NOT need to bring this to light and were wrong and cruel (to the victims) in doing so. On a personal note, I completely respect and in fact, look up to you and your views on many things considering your profession. I think that we will have to disagree on this. I too feel sorry for the the girls, but don't think that the people who brought this to light are wrong or cruel. I keep typing out why I think this, and then erasing, because I think that it has all been said already and, in the end, I think you and I just won't see eye to eye on the public discussion part of it even though we both feel awful for the girls and what they have endured.
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caro
Drama Llama
Refupea 1130
Posts: 5,222
Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Jun 4, 2015 20:29:25 GMT
Did anyone else hear Michelle or Jim Bob say at age 15 Josh had never been away from home? And when they took him to the police station they thought he might get locked up?
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Post by elaine on Jun 4, 2015 20:34:44 GMT
they are guilty of believing what they were told - that the juvenile records were sealed.
the parents did not do NOTHING. Evidently, we watched different interviews. Did you actually watch it? watch with a bias?
There were things Megyn didn't want to bring out and further identify which girls were involved.
As usual, you see the opposite of what was there. Who exactly told them the record was sealed? Skypea, I have you blocked, so didn't know you quoted me until I saw this. Please feel free to block/ignore me too. I have no desire to waste my time in fruitless discourse with you, life is too short - I'm sure you feel the same about me. Have a good one!
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Post by myboysnme on Jun 4, 2015 20:37:01 GMT
My issue has always been that this family does not any longer need a reality TV show. The premise of the show, to showcase a large family where it all works well and how they do it has been shattered. We now know they don't do it all well; that the dynamic of the family left them wide open for something like this to occur.
It could and does happen in many families, not just theirs. I don't want to see any of those families on a reality TV show, and especially not one where a wholesome healthy lifestyle is the major premise.
I don't want to hear any justification for what he did or did not do. This young man preyed upon younger females, most or all of which were prepubescent. As a clinical social worker with years of training and experience in sexual abuse and family violence, I would stake my career on the fact that this young man is a predator and he is still a risk to children.
I don't care if it's honey Boo Boos house, the Real Housewives houses, the Little Couple's house, the Roloff's, the Kardashians or the Duggers or any of them. They do not belong on TV to entertain and make money off advertisers when abuse is disclosed.
I can understand them being angry about the disclosure, but if they had not gone after the lucrative TV deal they would have kept their family secrets for eternity. If they could be a little less hateful towards others and a little more contrite when their own skeletons are exposed, the general public might be more understanding. But blaming the disclosure of the report and not the subject f the report is leading them down a very narrow path that will result in the loss of their cash cow TV show if there is any justice to come from all this.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jun 4, 2015 20:42:49 GMT
And the more I read, the more I think maybe it is time that the media shines a light on their "lifestyle" especially given how many people JimBob referenced last night who have had similar or worse things happen in their families. Maybe their "lifestyle" is contributing to this sort of behavior. And how about that idiot they follow, he was a sex criminal too. I don't care what your lifestyle is, a crime is a crime. A person who isn't in denial, a person who sees the truth when they look in the mirror, would shy away from the spotlight. They isolate themselves. The Duggars did not do this. Why? People like this often choose to surround themselves with similar people because it allows them to normalize it. It allows them to become adept deniers of the consequences to the victims because they think they see the victims having no issues. It allows them to build higher and higher walls to keep them focused on their lifestyle rather than being rattled by outside influences that might make them question it. Then the more it becomes normal, especially in an authoritarian lifestyle in which the "head" of the household is seen as (if just in his own mind) akin to god, the more arrogant they get, the more in denial they get. That's why they chose to have a tv show. (Or seek public office or public attention.) It's deliberate because they are megalomaniacs who think they do no wrong. It's "If I do it, it must be right" thinking. So they seek out attention -- the very attention that may prove their downfall, because they don't believe they can be pulled down. So they work to get more strokes to the ego, to have strangers affirm that righteousness of their lifestyle, to be seen as a wise person/leader who knows best. Every time they read or hear or see something positive, it just builds higher walls to keep out reality. Someone who has spent many years convincing themselves and others that they always know best and reinforcing that megalomania with affirmations from a spouse, children and like-minded others in that same lifestyle, will not even consider that the truth will come out. Because they are in control. They rule the world. Everyone loves them and agrees with them and thinks they are wonderful and all-knowing. If they consider that the truth might come out, they do not think it will be perceived of as a negative because in their minds -- and all they can imagine is what's in their minds -- they did the right thing. If to their shock the truth comes out and it's seen as negative, it's because they are being persecuted. It's pretty textbook behavior.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 4, 2015 20:50:48 GMT
That's just it, mallie. It was so obvious in the interview last night. They have no humility whatsoever. The comment that the whole family shouldn't be punished for the mistakes of one of them was just an attempt to keep their show. All of it was an attempt to keep their show, their fame, their money. I know good Christians. I know conservative Christians. These people are just nuts. ETA: and it's absolutely shameful they are going to put these girls on the air tomorrow night. Another one of their attempts to salvage their show. It should be Josh in the hot seat.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:24:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 20:54:30 GMT
Here are some questions I'd like to ask the Duggars.
1. Since you were so restrictive with TV/internet and printed materials, where did Josh get the idea to do these things to his sisters?
2. If Josh had come to you and confessed any other crime - robbery or vandalism, for instance - how would your response have differed from your response to his confession of sexual abuse?
3. Have you ever really asked your girls how the assaults made them feel, or did you tell them how they should feel?
4. Why did you have an expectation of privacy when you put your entire family and lifestyle on public display?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:24:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 21:39:52 GMT
JimBob and Michelle did not take the victims' feelings into account when they decided to put their family on television in a show focused on their family life. If they hadn't decided to parade their known-to-them sexually abused daughters and abuser son on television for power, profit, and fame, this incident wouldn't have made headlines. Just like every single time one of them gets pregnant it makes headlines, while none of our pregnancies make it into the news. This was Michelle and JimBob's choice, they are to blame for the consequences. To try to blame it on someone uncovering and bringing to light proof of their neglect of their female children is absurd. The only people to blame in this situation are Michelle, Jim Bob, Josh, and all those mandates reporters who did nothing when they found out about the abuse years ago and did nothing. they are guilty of believing what they were told - that the juvenile records were sealed.
the parents did not do NOTHING. Evidently, we watched different interviews. Did you actually watch it? watch with a bias?
There were things Megyn didn't want to bring out and further identify which girls were involved.
Wrong. Arrest records are sealed. Interviews done while the perpetrator is 18 are not. And that's what was done here. You constantly scream about liberals lying. Well you are lying here.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jun 4, 2015 21:54:44 GMT
they are guilty of believing what they were told - that the juvenile records were sealed.
the parents did not do NOTHING. Evidently, we watched different interviews. Did you actually watch it? watch with a bias?
There were things Megyn didn't want to bring out and further identify which girls were involved.
Wrong. Arrest records are sealed. Interviews done while the perpetrator is 18 are not. And that's what was done here. You constantly scream about liberals lying. Well you are lying here. But if the VICTIMS were minors then the records should have been sealed. I read that a judge has ordered the records destroyed. I think the victims have a case here if they decide to sue. There has to be a backstory that hasn't been revealed - like who tipped off InTouch.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:24:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 22:34:26 GMT
Wrong. Arrest records are sealed. Interviews done while the perpetrator is 18 are not. And that's what was done here. You constantly scream about liberals lying. Well you are lying here. But if the VICTIMS were minors then the records should have been sealed. I read that a judge has ordered the records destroyed. I think the victims have a case here if they decide to sue. There has to be a backstory that hasn't been revealed - like who tipped off InTouch. That's not how the law reads to what I've heard and read. Not saying it is right but I don't think they were illegally obtained. And the destruction of the interview was very shady and sounds like might have been illegal itself.
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Post by cropduster on Jun 4, 2015 22:38:13 GMT
I was wondering who tipped off InTouch too.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 4, 2015 22:38:40 GMT
Let us imagine for a moment if this happened in the Obama household how we might see the responses from some posters differ.
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Post by elaine on Jun 4, 2015 23:07:06 GMT
Wrong. Arrest records are sealed. Interviews done while the perpetrator is 18 are not. And that's what was done here. You constantly scream about liberals lying. Well you are lying here. But if the VICTIMS were minors then the records should have been sealed. I read that a judge has ordered the records destroyed. I think the victims have a case here if they decide to sue. There has to be a backstory that hasn't been revealed - like who tipped off InTouch. So, if someone working in your child's school had police reports and records indicating that he sexually molested children, you'd be fine with those records being sealed and/or destroyed because the victims were minors? That no one should have access to information about pedophiles because their victims are minors? ARREST records are sealed based on the age of the person arrested, not on the age of the victims. Josh wasn't arrested, so nothing was sealed. The girls' names were redacted, but I agree that other identifying information SHOULD also have been redacted, such as their biological relationship to the perpetrator. The ball was dropped there. I would like to know who tipped Oprah off too. I agree there is one or more backstories.
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Post by LiLi on Jun 4, 2015 23:09:02 GMT
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Jun 4, 2015 23:12:38 GMT
Who makes their family into a TV show, anyway? I guess that's why I never watch the program. I just dislike the whole premise.. This reeks of greed rather than loving parent.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jun 4, 2015 23:25:34 GMT
But if the VICTIMS were minors then the records should have been sealed. I read that a judge has ordered the records destroyed. I think the victims have a case here if they decide to sue. There has to be a backstory that hasn't been revealed - like who tipped off InTouch. So, if someone working in your child's school had police reports and records indicating that he sexually molested children, you'd be fine with those records being sealed and/or destroyed because the victims were minors? That no one should have access to information about pedophiles because their victims are minors? ARREST records are sealed based on the age of the person arrested, not on the age of the victims. Josh wasn't arrested, so nothing was sealed. The girls' names were redacted, but I agree that other identifying information SHOULD also have been redacted, such as their biological relationship to the perpetrator. The ball was dropped there. I would like to know who tipped Oprah off too. I agree there is one or more backstories. I don't know what happens in the real world but I have to believe that minor victims rights would be protected. It is pretty clear that InTouch received police records that were not redacted at all before they were released. I also don't know the law. Josh committed the crime at the time he was a minor and no abuse was taking place at the time of the investigation how does that effect the record?
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Post by birukitty on Jun 4, 2015 23:32:37 GMT
The ONLY reason the judge order the records destroyed is because one of the victims is still under the age of 18 (and still a minor) and she requested it. If all of the victims were over the age of 18 and requested it, nothing would have happened-the records couldn't have been destroyed. There is no basis for a law suit. A lot of what was said by Michelle and Jim Bob last night was pure fabrication. I could only stand to watch for 15 minutes before I shut off my TV. All I heard was, "Josh, Josh, Josh" and lie, lie, lie and I'd had enough.
Debbie in MD.
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Post by elaine on Jun 4, 2015 23:39:01 GMT
So, if someone working in your child's school had police reports and records indicating that he sexually molested children, you'd be fine with those records being sealed and/or destroyed because the victims were minors? That no one should have access to information about pedophiles because their victims are minors? ARREST records are sealed based on the age of the person arrested, not on the age of the victims. Josh wasn't arrested, so nothing was sealed. The girls' names were redacted, but I agree that other identifying information SHOULD also have been redacted, such as their biological relationship to the perpetrator. The ball was dropped there. I would like to know who tipped Oprah off too. I agree there is one or more backstories. I don't know what happens in the real world but I have to believe that minor victims rights would be protected. It is pretty clear that InTouch received police records that were not redacted at all before they were released. I also don't know the law. Josh committed the crime at the time he was a minor and no abuse was taking place at the time of the investigation how does that effect the record? The investigation took place when he was an adult. They had no idea whether it was currently happening or not (hence, an investigation), especially since there were multiple incidents and it is rare that a repeat offender stops - especially without treatment. I would never trust him, or someone with an identical history, to be around my children. No records are sealed if no arrest was made. Minors' rights in cases of abuse are supposed to be protected by their names and identifying information not being included in information that is released. Pedophiles' records are not protected - the public has a right to know who has been arrested as a sexual predator of children - just that identifying info of the victims removed. Someone did not wipe the identifying information from the reports that were released that pointed to the girls and that was wrong. That the reports were released wasn't.
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Post by myboysnme on Jun 5, 2015 0:04:57 GMT
I just read a comment about TLC being the 'Touching Little Children' channel. TLC better shift gears quickly. Maybe actually have shows where we can LEARN something?
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Post by stampinchick on Jun 5, 2015 3:11:29 GMT
I was shocked by the facts about sexual abuse at the end of the interview. Sure, I know this happens, but I had no idea so often. Megyn reported: 1 in 5 girls and 1 and 20 boys are sexually abused. 3 out of 4 times it is by someone they know well. One out of five of us female peas were sexually abused!! One out of five of us were sexually abused with 75% of the time it being someone we knew well!! With those statistics, we can assume there are a lot of secrets here and the victims among us have the right to keep their secret. I stand by my feelings concerning the girls, they did not deserve this. The person that dug this back up did not consider the victims when they let this out. I respectfully disagree with the opinion/attitude- "they made their life public, they put themselves out there".... for lack of better words, "they had this coming to them." Disclaimer (because this is a hot topic)- I am not pointing fingers at a pea, just a general attitude I see. It also means there are a lot of people here who have kids who have been, are being or will be abused.
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Post by Skypea on Jun 5, 2015 3:42:25 GMT
The ONLY reason the judge order the records destroyed is because one of the victims is still under the age of 18 (and still a minor) and she requested it. If all of the victims were over the age of 18 and requested it, nothing would have happened-the records couldn't have been destroyed. There is no basis for a law suit. A lot of what was said by Michelle and Jim Bob last night was pure fabrication. I could only stand to watch for 15 minutes before I shut off my TV. All I heard was, "Josh, Josh, Josh" and lie, lie, lie and I'd had enough. Debbie in MD. where did you get this info on it?
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Post by Skypea on Jun 5, 2015 4:03:14 GMT
I don't know what happens in the real world but I have to believe that minor victims rights would be protected. It is pretty clear that InTouch received police records that were not redacted at all before they were released. I also don't know the law. Josh committed the crime at the time he was a minor and no abuse was taking place at the time of the investigation how does that effect the record? The investigation took place when he was an adult. They had no idea whether it was currently happening or not (hence, an investigation), especially since there were multiple incidents and it is rare that a repeat offender stops - especially without treatment. I would never trust him, or someone with an identical history, to be around my children. No records are sealed if no arrest was made. Minors' rights in cases of abuse are supposed to be protected by their names and identifying information not being included in information that is released. Pedophiles' records are not protected - the public has a right to know who has been arrested as a sexual predator of children - just that identifying info of the victims removed. Someone did not wipe the identifying information from the reports that were released that pointed to the girls and that was wrong. That the reports were released wasn't. according to an Arkansas juvenile judge they shouldn't have been released. She ordered them destroyed. A lawyer on Megyn's show quoted the law - and it was printed on the tv screen for all to read.
I'm taking the word of the juvenile judge.
btw - the dad says they did go before a judge.
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Post by Skypea on Jun 5, 2015 4:08:12 GMT
I was shocked by the facts about sexual abuse at the end of the interview. Sure, I know this happens, but I had no idea so often. Megyn reported: 1 in 5 girls and 1 and 20 boys are sexually abused. 3 out of 4 times it is by someone they know well. One out of five of us female peas were sexually abused!! One out of five of us were sexually abused with 75% of the time it being someone we knew well!! With those statistics, we can assume there are a lot of secrets here and the victims among us have the right to keep their secret. I stand by my feelings concerning the girls, they did not deserve this. The person that dug this back up did not consider the victims when they let this out. I respectfully disagree with the opinion/attitude- "they made their life public, they put themselves out there".... for lack of better words, "they had this coming to them." Disclaimer (because this is a hot topic)- I am not pointing fingers at a pea, just a general attitude I see. It also means there are a lot of people here who have kids who have been, are being or will be abused.
yes, how sad it is. From so many posts here, the peas will post a thread revealing it as soon as they find out their young son did something like this. Because we should all know about it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:24:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 4:55:02 GMT
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Jun 5, 2015 12:02:29 GMT
Well, their cash cow (the TV show) may be gone, so they have to find another way to get money. Maybe law suits are the new way for them.
ugh. These people are disgusting.
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Post by apeacalledliz on Jun 5, 2015 14:24:49 GMT
It hurts me so much that it could have still been the same big, headline grabbing, scandalous news story without the victims identities being revealed... I feel like whoever redacted that document was sloppy - a few more small redactions and the fact that it was his sisters would have never gotten out... He should answer, the parents should answer, the police, the church - everyone except for those girls/women... This story should be about their brother, parents, and all that's wrong there and it should have been their choice to reveal how they were involved... Just because Josh and his parents handled it horrendously doesn't mean that the person who poorly redacted the document or the media who revealed identifying information did the right thing... Re victimizing those girls/women was unnecessary to the story... I do agree with this, it was not necessary to make it blatantly obvious who the victims were ages and sex would have been enough to underscore the severity of his crimes.
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