AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 9, 2015 2:00:24 GMT
Sorta spin off and sorta real life.
What happens if a single adult dies without insurance and the adult children cannot afford a funeral?
Do you have any experience with this?
I googled and learned that each region can decide how to handle this so I expect there will be a variety of answers. I was surprised to learn that the SS death benefit is only $255.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 2:06:49 GMT
I know quite a bit about the funeral industry as this is what I do for a living. (I sell final expense insurance).. In our area if nobody is able to pay for the funeral the body is buried at a cemetery with a number as a marker. The cemetery is known as a unknown persons type cemetery.
Also you have to qualify for the $255 benefit. Meaning you have to be married or have a child under the age of 18.
Many people donate their body to science to avoid funeral costs, but most major universities have a over abundance of donations and waiting lists are years long or closed because of it.
Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.
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Post by mom on Aug 9, 2015 2:11:53 GMT
I have noticed around here, cremation is huge for those who don't have a ton of money for a huge funeral and casket. I also have seen a ton of Go Fund Me pages for funerals - but I don't think that is really what you are asking about.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 2:12:48 GMT
Sometimes charities will step in at the request of extended families but don't hold your breath. My cousin died last year. Single. Fast food job. No Savings. She was out of state for her extended family. We contacted her state, our state, her parent's state etc and charities in each one of them and no one wanted to know. In the end the maternal side of family shared the costs for cremation and she was interred at the foot of her maternal grandparents. Her father didn't approve of her life choices so was an arse about it. The state where the death takes place had a time limit for the family to step in and do something. I think it was 14 days.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 9, 2015 2:13:18 GMT
Thanks . I'm just speculating at this point. I have a friend that just lost her mother today and neither of them had a comfortable lifestyle. It may be that the mother had life insurance but it would be surprising. Sometimes my friend calls asking for advice on money matters and I thought I'd be prepared in case she did.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 2:18:05 GMT
I should add to mine that my mother told the said charity in our state when they asked for a donation that she had already spent it and on what as they didn't help.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 9, 2015 2:56:47 GMT
Doesn't the state still provide internment and a casket? What happens to homeless people found dead? The poor should be eligible for a no service, no viewing burial of the body. Or cremation without the remains being boxed. There must be something that can help those people.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 3:03:15 GMT
georgiapea they will go out of their way to find a family member to pay for the expenses because believe me most of these cases they will pressure family enough to get someone to pay. But if not then yes, usually ends up a cremation in a box. And then buried in a non marked grave (it's a numbered marker)..
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 9, 2015 3:07:31 GMT
Countrygirlpea, is it the funeral home who pressures family to pay for a service? Which sounds to me like they are, um, grubbing for the money. I think I'll tell DH to inform them he's broke and just to put me in a cardboard box!
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 3:09:23 GMT
Countrygirlpea, is it the funeral home who pressures family to pay for a service? Which sounds to me like they are, um, grubbing for the money. I think I'll tell DH to inform them he's broke and just to put me in a cardboard box! It's the state. The funeral home would be employed by the family or the state, but otherwise I think it is the Coroner's office.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 9, 2015 3:13:09 GMT
New Mexico has (or had) something called an 'Alternative to a Funeral' at Midway, out of Roswell when we lived there. New Mexico is a poor state and Chaves is a poor county so I assumed it was an effort to avoid a costly funeral.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 3:23:47 GMT
No Georgiapea it's the state. Although funeral homes have the most unethical business practices I've ever seen. My company protects family members from all of the un-necessary and un-ethical practices they do.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 3:25:32 GMT
No Georgiapea it's the state. Although funeral homes have the most unethical business practices I've ever seen. My company protects family members from all of the un-necessary and un-ethical practices they do. *some funeral homes.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 3:28:56 GMT
Yes riverisis you're right.. Some.. There are some good ones still left. Right now I'm working in a area that has little to no competition. Which means they can charge whatever they want. They are charging people $12-$14k for a viewing cremation.. When in the closest city that has lots of competition they are getting the same service for $3,000. Drives me crazy
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 3:30:58 GMT
I know quite a bit about the funeral industry as this is what I do for a living. (I sell final expense insurance).. In our area if nobody is able to pay for the funeral the body is buried at a cemetery with a number as a marker. The cemetery is known as a unknown persons type cemetery. Also you have to qualify for the $255 benefit. Meaning you have to be married or have a child under the age of 18. Many people donate their body to science to avoid funeral costs, but most major universities have a over abundance of donations and waiting lists are years long or closed because of it. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions. Interesting. So since I am single and my next of kin daughter is 30...there would be no death benefit at all? Always thought it went to the estate, pretty much to settle possible funeral costs, even though we know it would not be enough. That is correct. No death benefit at all. The only way to qualify for that $255 is to be married or a dependent child. So in the case of married spouses only the surviving spouse will receive it. When the second spouse passes nobody will receive it.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 3:47:44 GMT
Yes riverisis you're right.. Some.. There are some good ones still left. Right now I'm working in a area that has little to no competition. Which means they can charge whatever they want. They are charging people $12-$14k for a viewing cremation.. When in the closest city that has lots of competition they are getting the same service for $3,000. Drives me crazy That's disgusting behavior. I know how cost effective a funeral can be, my DF's Funeral Home assisted in the burial of a lot of nuns (several convents nearby) and they don't spend any extra money on burials. I'm glad your community has you. I know people don't understand the ins and outs of the funeral industry and don't want to know until they need it and then they get this. Does the State AG not consider this price gouging? Heck, cremation in the closest city and viewing at the local church or other venue is better than $12-$14k.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 3:51:03 GMT
That is correct. No death benefit at all. The only way to qualify for that $255 is to be married or a dependent child. So in the case of married spouses only the surviving spouse will receive it. When the second spouse passes nobody will receive it. Wow. I am really irritated by that. I've been paying just as much as any other one person of a couple into SS. More if only one of them has been employed. My survivor deserves that just as much as any one else's survivor. How unfair. Just one more thing to add to my lengthy list of things the government does that are screwed up as far as I am concerned. Better make sure she can get to cash quickly because we are on our own since I am unmarried. Really... How is this fair? It's incredibly unfair but the way the government works. They put that $255 in place during the 1930's.. And have never raised it according to the costs of final expenses. It makes me sad. The demographic of people I work with.. Some of them are living on $700 a month. And they know their families will be financially devastated by even a cremation. That's where I come in. I have to put together a plan that will fit comfortably in their budget so their family isn't left to "pass the hat around" when they pass. And then my company will make all of the arrangements at the funeral home for their families and price shop/negotiate the cost of the funeral down. People cry and hug me when I leave a home because they literally lay in bed at night worrying about what they will do.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 3:56:50 GMT
Yes riverisis you're right.. Some.. There are some good ones still left. Right now I'm working in a area that has little to no competition. Which means they can charge whatever they want. They are charging people $12-$14k for a viewing cremation.. When in the closest city that has lots of competition they are getting the same service for $3,000. Drives me crazy That's disgusting behavior. I know how cost effective a funeral can be, my DF's Funeral Home assisted in the burial of a lot of nuns (several convents nearby) and they don't spend any extra money on burials. I'm glad your community has you. I know people don't understand the ins and outs of the funeral industry and don't want to know until they need it and then they get this. Does the State AG not consider this price gouging? Heck, cremation in the closest city and viewing at the local church or other venue is better than $12-$14k. It happens all over the country.. As long as they provide a list of services (doesn't matter how much they cost) they are allowed to get away with it. That's why my company developed the Funeral Consumer Guardian Society. We protect our policy holders and their families from this happening. They should be able to be buried in their hometown and pay a decent and fair price and not have to use a funeral home in a large city just so they aren't paying outrageous prices. I work all over the states of Ohio and Indiana.. You would be sickened the things I hear every single day. It's sad..
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 4:00:23 GMT
Wow. I am really irritated by that. I've been paying just as much as any other one person of a couple into SS. More if only one of them has been employed. My survivor deserves that just as much as any one else's survivor. How unfair. Just one more thing to add to my lengthy list of things the government does that are screwed up as far as I am concerned. Better make sure she can get to cash quickly because we are on our own since I am unmarried. Really... How is this fair? It's incredibly unfair but the way the government works. They put that $255 in place during the 1930's.. And have never raised it according to the costs of final expenses. It makes me sad. The demographic of people I work with.. Some of them are living on $700 a month. And they know their families will be financially devastated by even a cremation. That's where I come in. I have to put together a plan that will fit comfortably in their budget so their family isn't left to "pass the hat around" when they pass. And then my company will make all of the arrangements at the funeral home for their families and price shop/negotiate the cost of the funeral down. People cry and hug me when I leave a home because they literally lay in bed at night worrying about what they will do. This really needs to be re-legislated to cover a basic funeral. No bells and whistles just the basics and without the spouse stipulation. If you worked and paid into SS or didn't work for legitimate verified reasons then it should be paid.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 4:06:15 GMT
It's incredibly unfair but the way the government works. They put that $255 in place during the 1930's.. And have never raised it according to the costs of final expenses. It makes me sad. The demographic of people I work with.. Some of them are living on $700 a month. And they know their families will be financially devastated by even a cremation. That's where I come in. I have to put together a plan that will fit comfortably in their budget so their family isn't left to "pass the hat around" when they pass. And then my company will make all of the arrangements at the funeral home for their families and price shop/negotiate the cost of the funeral down. People cry and hug me when I leave a home because they literally lay in bed at night worrying about what they will do. This really needs to be re-legislated to cover a basic funeral. No bells and whistles just the basics and without the spouse stipulation. If you worked and paid into SS or didn't work for legitimate verified reasons then it should be paid. Yes it should but at the end of the day that $255 is just a drop in the bucket anyway towards the costs of final expenses anyway. Even the most basic funeral would be around the $750-$1850 for a cremation. (Depending on what area you live in) And with how the financial situation is with Social Security.. I wouldn't hold my breathe for any more money to be allotted for it. The spouse stipulation is just a way to only give the $$ to 1/4 of the population. It's wrong but that's our government at its finest.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Aug 9, 2015 4:06:49 GMT
The cost of a funeral is outrageous, this is why I don't want one. I have told my older daughter that I want cremation and to be sprinkled in a certain area that is my favorite place. I'd rather her have the life insurance money than a business.
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Post by AN on Aug 9, 2015 4:13:19 GMT
Every state has different laws, but I would be willing to bet many are similar on this topic.
When someone dies, there are "first class claims" on the estate. Those can be paid out of the proceeds of the estate before debt is paid. Funeral expenses and attorney fees are first class claims (I think there are some others).
My MIL passed away last year and had a negative estate - she owed more than she owned. However, we were able to use the proceeds of what we sold (personal posessions and car profit above the loan), as well as her very small checking account, towards the attorney and funeral expenses before we paid her 10k credit card bill or 5k personal loan.
While it doesn't help out in the moment of funeral planning, and some people truly don't have posessions worth more than a few hundred dollars, the first class claims thing really helps here. MIL lived in a trailer with pretty basic/dated posessions and I didn't think we would get much more than $1k for her posessions, but we netted over $2k using an auction company. And that money was able to go to the funeral rather than bills.
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Post by countrypeagirl on Aug 9, 2015 4:13:53 GMT
Exactly bunny!! That's why my company actually protects your regular life insurance. Unfortunately if a funeral home sees a large policy. The retail value of a funeral will sky rocket. We refuse to allow our policy holders to pay retail value and we also won't let a funeral home get ahold of the policies and take massive amounts for "assignment fees" (there is no set price they can charge.. So we do the negotiations and the funeral home never sees your policies.
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Post by AN on Aug 9, 2015 4:20:14 GMT
Interesting reading countrypeagirl. We ordered my MIL's casket online and saved 60% on it doing it that way... and there were a bunch more tricks the funeral home had up their sleeve I didn't know about. It is a weird business, and I feel like it is taboo to question them. My BIL looked like he wanted to kill DH for suggesting we buy the casket online (it was beautiful and as nice as what the funeral home offered).
If anyone is looking, I recommend the tips on the Best Price Caskets site. Super helpful. We ordered her casket on Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, and it was delivered Friday at 1 PM. Awesome service. Lots of tips on how to negotiate with funeral homes too.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Aug 9, 2015 4:25:03 GMT
After disposition of the body, I don't think there has to be a big expensive funeral in a funeral home or church. If I were really strapped financially I'd do something private or small, probably at home.
I live in one of the most expensive parts of the country and cremation is under $1,000. I know that's not cheap, but it's not as much as a casket, burial plot, etc. are.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Aug 9, 2015 5:10:49 GMT
georgiapea they will go out of their way to find a family member to pay for the expenses because believe me most of these cases they will pressure family enough to get someone to pay. But if not then yes, usually ends up a cremation in a box. And then buried in a non marked grave (it's a numbered marker).. Children have no.legal.obligation to pay funeral exoenses for a parent out if their own.pockets
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Aug 9, 2015 5:12:05 GMT
After disposition of the body, I don't think there has to be a big expensive funeral in a funeral home or church. If I were really strapped financially I'd do something private or small, probably at home. I live in one of the most expensive parts of the country and cremation is under $1,000. I know that's not cheap, but it's not as much as a casket, burial plot, etc. are. My sister s cremation was about 2300
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Aug 9, 2015 5:27:00 GMT
When my MIL passed away about 20 years ago, my now ex-DH and I paid for everything, and we did not have much $. She was on SS disability and there was nothing in her "estate" unless you count a very old couch. Not an antique, just old. We did bare bones cremation, etc and it cost around $2800. My stepmom just passed and she wanted burial/casket and we had to ship her body from AL to NH for the plot that (at least) was prepaid. The total expense for what she wanted cost $9700. Her life insurance was $5k. My dad did nothing, and complained that the insurance was spent (my stepmom left my stepsister as trustee because she knew my dad would not honor her wishes, and she was right) as he seemed to think he should just get it rather than pay funeral expenses. I only have 1 child so everything is preplanned and paid, and I have pretty good life insurance for her. But I told her if something happened to her, I would cremate her and spread her ashes at Comic-Con, which delighted her. Good thing we both have the same sense of humor!
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Post by doesitmatter on Aug 9, 2015 5:30:31 GMT
Sorta spin off and sorta real life. What happens if a single adult dies without insurance and the adult children cannot afford a funeral? Do you have any experience with this? I googled and learned that each region can decide how to handle this so I expect there will be a variety of answers. I was surprised to learn that the SS death benefit is only $255. This happened to my uncle, he had suffered mental illness and had lived with us most of my life (my dad was 10 years older than him and had taken him in when he was on his own at 16) and se we were basically raised as siblings. My parents provided a home, education, mental health treatment, but he had suffered a horrible trauma (as did my dad - their house caught on fire as kids and their 2 year old brother died inside while they were outside helpless ot save him.) As an adult my uncle had been in and out of facilities and couldn't hold a job and didn't have an resources. He took off and ended his own life and my father paid for all of the expesnes out of pocket. It was awful and sad and the stress over the funeral expenses added to my father's stress. Of ocurse my parenst have their own life isnruance etc, but many people who are struggling or unemployed aren't prepared for funeral expenses or for that of a family member of whom they may be the only living kin.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,562
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Aug 9, 2015 12:09:50 GMT
It's incredibly unfair but the way the government works. They put that $255 in place during the 1930's.. And have never raised it according to the costs of final expenses. It makes me sad. The demographic of people I work with.. Some of them are living on $700 a month. And they know their families will be financially devastated by even a cremation. That's where I come in. I have to put together a plan that will fit comfortably in their budget so their family isn't left to "pass the hat around" when they pass. And then my company will make all of the arrangements at the funeral home for their families and price shop/negotiate the cost of the funeral down. People cry and hug me when I leave a home because they literally lay in bed at night worrying about what they will do. This really needs to be re-legislated to cover a basic funeral. No bells and whistles just the basics and without the spouse stipulation. If you worked and paid into SS or didn't work for legitimate verified reasons then it should be paid. People balk at living people having ACA (hello fiscal conservatives) and you think they will go for SS paying for funerals? SS is quickly running out of money. Following the death of a worker beneficiary or other insured worker, Social Security makes a one-time payment of $255 to the surviving spouse or, if there is no spouse, to surviving dependent children.1 In 2012, such payments were made for about 770,000 deaths, for a total of about $200 million in benefit payments. link
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