smartypants71
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Location: Houston, TX
Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Aug 11, 2015 19:31:00 GMT
And that's a perfect example of being too PC. The descriptor is a good one - it is a black computer desk. It is a kid's computer desk. Why change it just because someone might raise an eyebrow? I can't see the picture on my work computer, is it similar to my black dog collar example/question? Darn blocked photos It is a picture from the Target website. The product is a child's computer desk in black, but the description says "black kid's computer desk"
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
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Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Aug 11, 2015 19:34:06 GMT
What are some examples of politically correct statements? Just using a timely example, Target's FB page is currently being overrun with semi-literate posts from people irate about Target removing gender labels from the toy and bedding sections. There are rampant complaints about political correctness, "pussification", feminazis, being overly sensitive, not following God, etc. etc. So from that example, I would say that "not so politically correct" means you believe you should have social permission to be as demeaning, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, or rude as you want without being challenged by others. In other words, you want your beliefs to be socially acceptable even when society no longer deems them so. I was one who liked Trumps lack of PC-ness for want of a better word. I see Target removing gender signs as a need to be PC. I haven't read the comments. Our current administration has gone so far as to ban linking terrorism to Islam in agent training. (http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/02/u-s-bans-linking-terrorism-to-muslims-in-agent-training/) Why would they do this if almost ALL recent terrorist attacks have been caused by radical Islamists? Why, to be PC of course. In the last few months I commented on a thread here about the black people in South Africa. One response, that still has me chuckling, was from someone who was offended at my lack of PC-ness in calling them blacks. She thought I should call them African Americans never mind that almost all of them have never set foot in America or even off the African continent and they all refer to themselves as blacks or coloreds depending on their racial history. My black South African friends find that as amusing as I do. I think the targeting of individuals for their beliefs that don't fall in line with accepted PC-ness is abhorent. Asking someone to remove a cross on a necklace because it might offend someone. Creating laws like the one where the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission says it's illegal for employers to discriminate against criminals because it has a “disproportionate” impact on minorities. Honestly if minorities have more criminals, own it and try and fix it. I think Americans are afraid of profiling for any reason. It is thought to be extremely un-PC. That said, I think everyone should be treated with respect and kindness. I hope I live that in my day to day life. Finally, if you haven't yet read George Orwell's 1984, go read it. We are moving towards Newspeak, where control over what is acceptable speech is being tightened and tightened
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 11, 2015 19:37:26 GMT
And that's a perfect example of being too PC. The descriptor is a good one - it is a black computer desk. It is a kid's computer desk. Why change it just because someone might raise an eyebrow? Because it isn't a good descriptor. It's a kid's black computer desk or alternatively a black, kid's computer desk.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 11, 2015 19:49:21 GMT
And that's a perfect example of being too PC. The descriptor is a good one - it is a black computer desk. It is a kid's computer desk. Why change it just because someone might raise an eyebrow? Because it isn't a good descriptor. It's a kid's black computer desk or alternatively a black, kid's computer desk. Well, they could say: Black - Kid's Computer Desk or Kid's Computer Desk, Black. Still, why make an issue out of it? Good descriptor or not, anyone reading it knows what it is.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,307
Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Aug 11, 2015 19:49:33 GMT
The reason I do not like A/A is because one can be a white A/A, or be black and not be African I personally know six "true" African Americans. All children of friends of mine.
One girl has a black mother from Kenya and a white father from the U.S.
One couple, from Egypt, had their baby while working here on a work visa.
Four kids are really African/European/American: Their father is from South Africa and is so fair that he gets burned badly at the start of VBS each year. His wife is from England and is almost as fair as her husband. All four of the children were born here and are thus US citizens.
Of these six kids, the only one that comes close to being "black" is the biracial girl I first listed.
You don't personally know me but I'm a true African American. My family had lived in Africa for 5 generations before I was born in Africa. I moved to the US and became a US citizen. The same is true for my husband although his family had only been in Africa for 4 generations. We both still have immediate family living in Africa. If there are scholarships available for African American students, my children should be able to apply for them regardless of the color of our skin (white) yet they are not allowed. So confusing.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 11, 2015 19:52:19 GMT
I personally know six "true" African Americans. All children of friends of mine.
One girl has a black mother from Kenya and a white father from the U.S.
One couple, from Egypt, had their baby while working here on a work visa.
Four kids are really African/European/American: Their father is from South Africa and is so fair that he gets burned badly at the start of VBS each year. His wife is from England and is almost as fair as her husband. All four of the children were born here and are thus US citizens.
Of these six kids, the only one that comes close to being "black" is the biracial girl I first listed.
You don't personally know me but I'm a true African American. My family had lived in Africa for 5 generations before I was born in Africa. I moved to the US and became a US citizen. The same is true for my husband although his family had only been in Africa for 4 generations. We both still have immediate family living in Africa. If there are scholarships available for African American students, my children should be able to apply for them regardless of the color of our skin (white) yet they are not allowed. So confusing. Obviously, your race has nothing do with it. It's all about the color of your skin. How ironic!
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Deleted
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Oct 5, 2024 21:53:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:52:53 GMT
To me it means you don't shy away from talking about tough topics, standing by statements that aren't popular because you believe in them, and not letting someone else tell you how to talk and feel. It can be blunt, it can be singular, it can said in fewer words that someone trying to throw in a bunch of disclaimers to appease different opinions. is NOT, however, a free pass to be insulting. Well said.
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Post by myboysnme on Aug 11, 2015 20:12:39 GMT
Not so politically correct means that he is willing to say things in a way that is demeaning or insulting or without concern for how the listener may feel. It is a selfish point of view in my opinion, because it means I am going to say and do what I want any way that I want and I don't give a flip about you or what you think or how you feel.
Almost anything I've ever heard referred to as politically correct is something that is intentionally insulting or condescending toward another person without regard for their feelings. Is it not politically correct to say you'd like to see an attractive woman on their knees? No, it is just insulting and demeaning, but since men got away with sentiments like this for years, now it is seen as being politically correct instead of just being a decent human being.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 11, 2015 20:35:28 GMT
I can't see the picture on my work computer, is it similar to my black dog collar example/question? Darn blocked photos It is a picture from the Target website. The product is a child's computer desk in black, but the description says "black kid's computer desk" that example is just poor English, not 'non-PC.' The descriptor is about the desk, not the child who uses it, so it should be black desk, not black child's desk. (at least, to me that would be more clear than how it is worded.) eta: whoops-- I see someone already posted this.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2015 21:17:13 GMT
It is a picture from the Target website. The product is a child's computer desk in black, but the description says "black kid's computer desk" that example is just poor English, not 'non-PC.' The descriptor is about the desk, not the child who uses it, so it should be black desk, not black child's desk. (at least, to me that would be more clear than how it is worded.) eta: whoops-- I see someone already posted this. It seems like common sense would tell you it's a desk that any child can use and the desk is black. But the whole PC thing tends to remove the common sense part of thinking. So when someone up thread said that the extremes are lazy, I guess I can agree that by not using common sense and finding offense in every little thing, to me that is also lazy.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2015 21:24:52 GMT
And that's a perfect example of being too PC. The descriptor is a good one - it is a black computer desk. It is a kid's computer desk. Why change it just because someone might raise an eyebrow? Because it isn't a good descriptor. It's a kid's black computer desk or alternatively a black, kid's computer desk. So when my breeder and later us, call my puppy black boy due to his collar color. Is that offensive or not offensive to people that might hear us out in public discussing the puppies by those descriptors?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 11, 2015 21:50:57 GMT
Because it isn't a good descriptor. It's a kid's black computer desk or alternatively a black, kid's computer desk. So when my breeder and later us, call my puppy black boy due to his collar color. Is that offensive or not offensive to people that might hear us out in public discussing the puppies by those descriptors? I would say no, because I as the listener have no idea what you mean by that. If someone would get offended, then in my opinion it would be misplaced outrage on their part for overhearing something taken totally out of context.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 22:26:22 GMT
Trump is using it as an excuse to be a jerk and a mysoginstic asshole, no doubt.
To most normal people, that isn't being "non-p/c".
Expressing unpopular but true opinions is being non-p/c. Like saying "ALL lives matter". Or pointing out to the BLM crowd that black on black crime accounts for thousands of more deaths and imprisonments each year than police on black violence does. Or pointing out that a 60-something year old man who gets breast implants and changes his name is not REALLY a woman, no matter how much he wants to be. Or saying that PP is a cesspool of souless cretins who are profiting from the dissection and sale of murdered babies. I could go on, down the list of things that perpetually outrage most liberals...because once you remove political correctness from the equation, their arguments always break down. Which is why they cling to PC like a dog with a meaty bone.
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 11, 2015 22:54:48 GMT
Because it isn't a good descriptor. It's a kid's black computer desk or alternatively a black, kid's computer desk. So when my breeder and later us, call my puppy black boy due to his collar color. Is that offensive or not offensive to people that might hear us out in public discussing the puppies by those descriptors? I have no idea whether anybody would find that offensive. I don't find 'black kid desk' offensive, just grammatically gauche.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2015 23:09:41 GMT
So when my breeder and later us, call my puppy black boy due to his collar color. Is that offensive or not offensive to people that might hear us out in public discussing the puppies by those descriptors? I would say no, because I as the listener have no idea what you mean by that. If someone would get offended, then in my opinion it would be misplaced outrage on their part for overhearing something taken totally out of context. I wonder if from what I know of you, you are the norm or not And I mean that in a good way to you! I know you are logical and analytical and you don't seem to get offended at random words. You don't seem to take them out of context, if that makes sense. So I wonder if most people are like you or not and they would jump to conclusions in the wrong direction. I rarely refer to my puppy as black boy outside my own household because I do wonder what others would think. And that to me is what many/most people are balking about. That normal conversations have to be overthought out of fear of offending someone with something that is not truly offensive or meant to be offensive
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 11, 2015 23:15:17 GMT
That normal conversations have to be overthought out of fear of offending someone with something that is not truly offensive or meant to be offensive ^^^ true, too true, I think this is what I mean, at least, when I think about the term' too-PC.' (and thank you for the compliment; I think the same about you! so we're both not the norm-- in a good way, lol!!)
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 11, 2015 23:26:08 GMT
For Trump, it's an excuse to be the racist, misogynist offensive asshole that he is. He thinks that he can get a free pass with this. He can't. There are no redeeming qualities for that sad excuse of a sack of flesh who is breathing the air and drinking the water that should be saved for other people. How can you not see that you and Trump are two of a kind in the way you speak about others?
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 11, 2015 23:38:54 GMT
What are some examples of politically correct statements? Just using a timely example, Target's FB page is currently being overrun with semi-literate posts from people irate about Target removing gender labels from the toy and bedding sections. There are rampant complaints about political correctness, "pussification", feminazis, being overly sensitive, not following God, etc. etc. So from that example, I would say that "not so politically correct" means you believe you should have social permission to be as demeaning, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, or rude as you want without being challenged by others. In other words, you want your beliefs to be socially acceptable even when society no longer deems them so. That's about the exact opposite of the way I've always considered not being politically correct, but I do see why you have this perspective. I just think of it as not going along with the ever-changing focus of the day. For example: Thinking of "Hands Up, Don't Shoot," as propaganda instead of truth is something that is politically incorrect to say. A politically correct world is an Orwellian world, to me.
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 12, 2015 0:58:48 GMT
I would say no, because I as the listener have no idea what you mean by that. If someone would get offended, then in my opinion it would be misplaced outrage on their part for overhearing something taken totally out of context. I wonder if from what I know of you, you are the norm or not And I mean that in a good way to you! I know you are logical and analytical and you don't seem to get offended at random words. You don't seem to take them out of context, if that makes sense. So I wonder if most people are like you or not and they would jump to conclusions in the wrong direction. I rarely refer to my puppy as black boy outside my own household because I do wonder what others would think. And that to me is what many/most people are balking about. That normal conversations have to be overthought out of fear of offending someone with something that is not truly offensive or meant to be offensive I live in the deep south. This would be considered a very offensive term to call your dog where I live. No one will bother to ask you why you chose that term. They will hear a dog being called what enslaved men of color were called not long enough ago and their first thoughts will be that you believe grown men of color are nothing more than dogs to you. It might not be right, but it is what it is.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 12, 2015 2:00:09 GMT
I wonder if from what I know of you, you are the norm or not And I mean that in a good way to you! I know you are logical and analytical and you don't seem to get offended at random words. You don't seem to take them out of context, if that makes sense. So I wonder if most people are like you or not and they would jump to conclusions in the wrong direction. I rarely refer to my puppy as black boy outside my own household because I do wonder what others would think. And that to me is what many/most people are balking about. That normal conversations have to be overthought out of fear of offending someone with something that is not truly offensive or meant to be offensive I live in the deep south. This would be considered a very offensive term to call your dog where I live. No one will bother to ask you why you chose that term. They will hear a dog being called what enslaved men of color were called not long enough ago and their first thoughts will be that you believe grown men of color are nothing more than dogs to you. It might not be right, but it is what it is. It wouldn't be right since my breeders are black and they are the ones that chose to use a black collar and call the puppy black boy. I know that you will say it won't matter that they themselves are black, which is part of what makes this whole PC thing crazy, confusing and over the top silly at times They obviously see no offense in it and it's part of dog breeding. All breeders put some type of color marker on the puppies - a collar or ribbon or spot. My breeder had a large litter and used blue, green, red, yellow, etc, including a black collar to color code her puppies. So would the same people be offended if it was a black woman (my breeder) discussing black boy to white woman (other breeders/owners) at a table at a restaurant?
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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 12, 2015 5:35:36 GMT
I live in the deep south. This would be considered a very offensive term to call your dog where I live. No one will bother to ask you why you chose that term. They will hear a dog being called what enslaved men of color were called not long enough ago and their first thoughts will be that you believe grown men of color are nothing more than dogs to you. It might not be right, but it is what it is. It wouldn't be right since my breeders are black and they are the ones that chose to use a black collar and call the puppy black boy. I know that you will say it won't matter that they themselves are black, which is part of what makes this whole PC thing crazy, confusing and over the top silly at times They obviously see no offense in it and it's part of dog breeding. All breeders put some type of color marker on the puppies - a collar or ribbon or spot. My breeder had a large litter and used blue, green, red, yellow, etc, including a black collar to color code her puppies. So would the same people be offended if it was a black woman (my breeder) discussing black boy to white woman (other breeders/owners) at a table at a restaurant? Hard to say. I think it really would depend on a lot of things at the moment, most importantly, the frame of mind of the person hearing it. Calling a dog Blackie (especially if the dog was Black) would be different than calling him Black Boy. For the most part, people could readily understand the obvious. You wouldn't get very far explaining that when your dog was a puppy he wore a black color to tell him from his littermates, and now that he's your dog, apart from the litter, this is an appropriate name to call him in public. You might suggest more unique names: Green collar - Hammie (for Green eggs and) Red collar - Mac (for McIntosh apple) Black collar - Miner (for coal) Then people might actually be interested in why you sometimes refer to your dog Spot as Hammie.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 12, 2015 12:44:47 GMT
A politically correct world is an Orwellian world, to me.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 12, 2015 13:44:17 GMT
I think that's why it pisses people off, because they really don't even think about it, until someone like Target does this, then it MAKES it a big deal, and makes it sound as if gender roles inherently have something wrong with them. I'm saying this because it is pretty much what I'm hearing from my conservative family. I guess what I would say is that some culturally enforced gender roles do have something wrong with them. Like boys' toys and girls' toys. I freaking loved Transformers when I was a kid but only played with them in secret because they were "for boys". Seems unnecessary to me, you know? So to simply stop making that statement doesn't seem like making a big deal out of anything so much as just no longer saying these things are for boys and these are for girls. I totally understand. But they didn't have to make it a big deal by announcing it to the world. They could easily have just made the change, and I guarantee most people would never have noticed. By making the press release and the news, they offended people by making it seem there is something wrong with gender roles. It just pushes buttons where it doesn't need to be pushed, no one was complaining. They did it simply to appear more tolerant than other department stores, and that is PC and that is the fake PC that people can't stand.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 12, 2015 13:52:41 GMT
Imagine walking down the car lot. There are five aisles labeled Men's Cars in manly neutrals and bright yellow and two aisles labeled Women's cars in pastels, of course. Or how about an aisle of girly looking autoparts labled "women's parts" at the auto store? Walking down the household cleaning items. Three rows labeled Women's Clenaing supplies (with a pink background) and an endcap labled, Men's cleaning supplies ( in blues and browns). Seems stupid, right? That is pretty much what Taregt was doing with kid's toys. Gender lables are unnecessary with only few exceptions. People who limit their children with gender stereotypes will continue to do so by not buying Jimmy that toy kitchen because they think cooking is somehow only for women or steering him clear of the baby dolls. The signs are redundant for them. For those who don't want those stereotypes, they have one less barrier to those means. I don't disagree, I see auto parts like that all the time, and tools. Let's face it there ARE some women and some men who LIKE the culturally assigned gender roles. Target taking that away makes them feel as if there is something WRONG with them liking and wanting that separation. There isn't. While you and I may think gender labels are unnecessary. Other people don't mind them, and their opinion is valid and it's not a bad or wrong opinion. That is where people have a problem with PC. They feel like they are being told there is something wrong with their viewpoint just in order to accomodate a fraction of people who may or may not be offended by something. Target having the labels didn't traumatize children. Most people probably never even paid any attention to it UNTIL Target decided to be all PC about it.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 12, 2015 14:00:33 GMT
I agree with Julie. To add my thoughts... What comes to my mind at present when I think of overweening political correctness: When anyone turns an ordinary word into a pejorative term that translates into racism or sexism such as Mitt Romney being labeled a racist by Chris Matthews for saying the word "apartment." Also, the current trend on college campuses to label things as micro-aggressions. Yes, another perfect example. When people intentionally try to assign a negative intent to a perfectly normal everyday term.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 14:38:49 GMT
I find it hysterically funny that someone would think that only liberals "cling to PC like a dog with a bone" Thanks for the laugh with my coffee this morning!
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Post by katieanna on Aug 12, 2015 14:49:46 GMT
I totally understand. But they didn't have to make it a big deal by announcing it to the world. They could easily have just made the change, and I guarantee most people would never have noticed. By making the press release and the news, they offended people by making it seem there is something wrong with gender roles. It just pushes buttons where it doesn't need to be pushed, no one was complaining. They did it simply to appear more tolerant than other department stores, and that is PC and that is the fake PC that people can't stand. Yes, another perfect example. When people intentionally try to assign a negative intent to a perfectly normal everyday term. My thoughts exactly. Now the question is: How far will it go?
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 12, 2015 15:00:46 GMT
Imagine walking down the car lot. There are five aisles labeled Men's Cars in manly neutrals and bright yellow and two aisles labeled Women's cars in pastels, of course. Or how about an aisle of girly looking autoparts labled "women's parts" at the auto store? Walking down the household cleaning items. Three rows labeled Women's Clenaing supplies (with a pink background) and an endcap labled, Men's cleaning supplies ( in blues and browns). Seems stupid, right? That is pretty much what Taregt was doing with kid's toys. Gender lables are unnecessary with only few exceptions. People who limit their children with gender stereotypes will continue to do so by not buying Jimmy that toy kitchen because they think cooking is somehow only for women or steering him clear of the baby dolls. The signs are redundant for them. For those who don't want those stereotypes, they have one less barrier to those means. I don't disagree, I see auto parts like that all the time, and tools. Let's face it there ARE some women and some men who LIKE the culturally assigned gender roles. Target taking that away makes them feel as if there is something WRONG with them liking and wanting that separation. There isn't. While you and I may think gender labels are unnecessary. Other people don't mind them, and their opinion is valid and it's not a bad or wrong opinion. That is where people have a problem with PC. They feel like they are being told there is something wrong with their viewpoint just in order to accomodate a fraction of people who may or may not be offended by something. Target having the labels didn't traumatize children. Most people probably never even paid any attention to it UNTIL Target decided to be all PC about it. The point is that they don't have to be culturally assigned for people to continue liking them. Men don't have to be told that working on the car is 'men's work' in order to enjoy it. Just as I don't have to be told that cooking is 'women's work' to enjoy cooking. In fact, I would enjoy it all that much more if people would just STFU and keep their gender stereotypes to themselves.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 12, 2015 15:35:12 GMT
I don't disagree, I see auto parts like that all the time, and tools. Let's face it there ARE some women and some men who LIKE the culturally assigned gender roles. Target taking that away makes them feel as if there is something WRONG with them liking and wanting that separation. There isn't. While you and I may think gender labels are unnecessary. Other people don't mind them, and their opinion is valid and it's not a bad or wrong opinion. That is where people have a problem with PC. They feel like they are being told there is something wrong with their viewpoint just in order to accomodate a fraction of people who may or may not be offended by something. Target having the labels didn't traumatize children. Most people probably never even paid any attention to it UNTIL Target decided to be all PC about it. The point is that they don't have to be culturally assigned for people to continue liking them. Men don't have to be told that working on the car is 'men's work' in order to enjoy it. Just as I don't have to be told that cooking is 'women's work' to enjoy cooking. In fact, I would enjoy it all that much more if people would just STFU and keep their gender stereotypes to themselves. My point is, there's nothing wrong with the cultural assignment either. it is what it is. Assigning negative connotations where there is none is a good example of overly PC.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 12, 2015 15:48:58 GMT
The point is that they don't have to be culturally assigned for people to continue liking them. Men don't have to be told that working on the car is 'men's work' in order to enjoy it. Just as I don't have to be told that cooking is 'women's work' to enjoy cooking. In fact, I would enjoy it all that much more if people would just STFU and keep their gender stereotypes to themselves. My point is, there's nothing wrong with the cultural assignment either. it is what it is. Assigning negative connotations where there is none is a good example of overly PC. You're using 'cultural assignment' as a euphemism for stereotype and, yes, it's negative - maybe not for those who actually fit the stereotype, but for the rest of us, most definitely.
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