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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 12:57:52 GMT
You seem to forget that the POTUS has historically been the leader of the free world. The souls on that plane were innocent citizens of that free world. Yes, the POTUS is supposed to lead all of is thru crises like this. Just an observation here. I personally think that statement is a very arrogant way of looking at the world! I doubt very much that the POTUS has historically been regarded as the leader of the free world though that may be the American thinking. No other government is waiting to follow the USA lead in this.....they have all instigated their own thoughts and courses of action already and don't need to have anyone speak for them. To be honest, I think that the countries with people involved in this tragedy would be insulted if they thought they had to wait for the US to take the lead. I would also add that David Cameron and Philip Hammond our Foreign Secretary ( who's only been in the job a few days) chose their words very carefully today so as not to speculate as to what had happened and further inflame the situation before all the facts were in. I was also impressed by Prince William and the Australian Foreign Minister which conducted their press conference with grace and dignity. There were many other official spokespersons from other countries too. No Lynlam, other countries are not reliant of the US to lead the world.
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Post by juliet on Jul 18, 2014 13:13:01 GMT
You seem to forget that the POTUS has historically been the leader of the free world. The souls on that plane were innocent citizens of that free world. To be honest, I've never thought of the American president as our leader. I doubt a lot of people here in The Netherlands think he is.
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Pinky Zebra
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Post by Pinky Zebra on Jul 18, 2014 13:15:38 GMT
I don't think that it's only U.S. relations. I never said that. I think that the president of MY country needs to lead the U.S. (my country) through this crisis. He can work with other world leaders. Or we can sit back and imagine another Cold War era. Or much worse. This can affect every nation. Putin is crazy. He scares me. And he loves to stick it to other countries. Us included.
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Pinky Zebra
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Post by Pinky Zebra on Jul 18, 2014 13:23:32 GMT
You seem to forget that the POTUS has historically been the leader of the free world. The souls on that plane were innocent citizens of that free world. To be honest, I've never thought of the American president as our leader. I doubt a lot of people here in The Netherlands think he is. I just googled "leader of the free world" to see what is said. I've heard the expression for years. Apparently it's not used as widely as it is in the U.S. It refers to a post-Cold War world. It's just wiki. But take a look. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_WorldThe U.S. is, simply put, a big player. Not the only player.
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Post by pjaye on Jul 18, 2014 13:24:32 GMT
I see that the usual political nut jobs here can't help themselves. But this was not an American plane, it was not over American airspace and the last I heard there wasn't as single American confirmed on board. This was not an attack on America. Be grateful for that and stop trying to twist it into one.
So why should the American president be taking an active lead in this? The leaders of The Netherlands, Malaysia, The UK and Australia, Germany, Belgium, The Philippines, New Zealand and Canada are going to be more than capable of leading this, insisting on investigations, dealing with the Russians & Ukrainians etc and taking whatever action is necessary. Your President needs to do exactly what he is currently doing - sending condolences to the families and being involved an any talks involve that involve allies and world leaders in general and offering help & support to the leaders of the other countries.
It's not his place or his people to "lead" anyone anywhere with regard to this tragedy. Half the time you're posting that your President needs to stop doing things for other countries and focus on his own people - and when he does just that, then you bitch and moan about him not taking the lead when it's a problem outside of your country.
As I said - it's obvious it's just the usual shit stirrers here who try to warp everything into being Obama's fault...and I am just directing my comments to those people in this thread...I do know that not all Americans think like this.
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Post by lovetodigi on Jul 18, 2014 13:27:13 GMT
My uncle heads up the Molecular Retrovirology Lab at UW. He's one of those who travels the circuit for HIV. He's on the west coast so I can't reach him at the moment. I am staying calm, but still a bit nervous. He will be devastated at the loss of so many of his colleagues. Oh no Kelpea. I hope that your uncle is okay and you are able to reach him soon. I know that you are worried, but chances are that, if he went, he was on another flight and not this one. (((HUG)))
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Post by pjaye on Jul 18, 2014 13:28:34 GMT
Wikipedia is your reference source for global politics?
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Pinky Zebra
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Post by Pinky Zebra on Jul 18, 2014 13:31:42 GMT
I see that the usual political nut jobs here can't help themselves. But this was not an American plane, it was not over American airspace and the last I heard there wasn't as single American confirmed on board. This was not an attack on America. Be grateful for that and stop trying to twist it into one. So why should the American president be taking an active lead in this? The leaders of The Netherlands, Malaysia, The UK and Australia, Germany, Belgium, The Philippines, New Zealand and Canada are going to be more than capable of leading this, insisting on investigations, dealing with the Russians & Ukrainians etc and taking whatever action is necessary. Your President needs to do exactly what he is currently doing - sending condolences to the families and being involved an any talks involve that involve allies and world leaders in general and offering help & support to the leaders of the other countries. It's not his place or his people to "lead" anyone anywhere with regard to this tragedy. Half the time you're posting that your President needs to stop doing things for other countries and focus on his own people - and when he does just that, then you bitch and moan about him not taking the lead when it's a problem outside of your country. As I said - it's obvious it's just the usual shit stirrers here who try to warp everything into being Obama's fault...and I am just directing my comments to those people in this thread...I do know that not all Americans think like this. Wow. Are you referring to me? I sure hope not. I've tried hard to be kind in this thread. I'm not calling anyone who disagrees with me a stirrer. Or any name. I have an opinion. Several disagree with it. That's fine.
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Pinky Zebra
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I love Daryl Dixon. I want to lick his face and have his babies.
Posts: 169
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Jun 26, 2014 5:37:40 GMT
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Post by Pinky Zebra on Jul 18, 2014 13:33:28 GMT
Wikipedia is your reference source for global politics? It was the first article that popped up. There are several more. Laugh all you want. If that makes you feel better.
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Post by pjaye on Jul 18, 2014 13:33:29 GMT
Sure am.
And that's the problem with people like you, you cite "the first thing that comes up" because you don't even have enough sense to find a legitimate source in an attempt to make a valid point. You do know what wikipedia is ...right? ANYONE from anywhere can write anything in there.
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Pinky Zebra
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I love Daryl Dixon. I want to lick his face and have his babies.
Posts: 169
Location: West Texas
Jun 26, 2014 5:37:40 GMT
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Post by Pinky Zebra on Jul 18, 2014 13:43:21 GMT
Sure am. And that's the problem with people like you, you cite "the first thing that comes up" because you don't even have enough sense to find a legitimate source in an attempt to make a valid point. You do know what wikipedia is ...right? ANYONE from anywhere can write anything in there. I'm aware what wiki is. That's why I prefaced the link. Ugh. Several have taken issue with the expression and use of "leader of the free world." One I didn't even use. But felt like needed clarification. I'll be glad to get off of my phone and onto my laptop for a different source for you. Maybe that will help. For the record, I've not been the slightest bit unkind to you or anyone on this thread. I wish you could say the same.
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Post by gar on Jul 18, 2014 13:45:41 GMT
You seem to forget that the POTUS has historically been the leader of the free world. The souls on that plane were innocent citizens of that free world. Yes, the POTUS is supposed to lead all of is thru crises like this. Just an observation here. I personally think that statement is a very arrogant way of looking at the world! I doubt very much that the POTUS has historically been regarded as the leader of the free world though that may be the American thinking. No other government is waiting to follow the USA lead in this.....they have all instigated their own thoughts and courses of action already and don't need to have anyone speak for them. To be honest, I think that the countries with people involved in this tragedy would be insulted if they thought they had to wait for the US to take the lead. We seem to have been transported back to the thread about all the unaccompanied children streaming across your border and the way discussions that lead to!!!
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Post by juliet on Jul 18, 2014 13:49:29 GMT
Right now, I believe our focus should be at finding, informing and consoling 295 families who have lost loved ones. I know everyone wants to know who did this and why and how this tragedy could have happened in the first place. But those questions will still be there tomorrow and the day after that. For me, it's not a priority at this moment right now. Let experts do their jobs, investigate and based on their conclusions, we will deal. Blaming, pointing fingers and stirring shit won't get any of these people back.
For now, there are fellow teachers, colleagues and students to console.
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 18, 2014 13:50:17 GMT
Pinky Zebra - I know it wasn't you who used the phrase but I think you will find a that there aren't a lot of (non-ironic) references to the US president as 'leader of the free world' outside of America.
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Post by Kelpea on Jul 18, 2014 13:51:32 GMT
Thank you, lovetodigi.
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Dani-Mani
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 13:54:39 GMT
Lynam, your response is exactly why other developed nations who are just as strong and 'free' as we are think we're a bunch of arrogant asses.
If there were 150 Americans on board, even if it weren't an American airline, then yeah, I could see our leaders playing very close attention to this crash.
So far, not one American soul was reported on board.
I've lived overseas. You need to. It'll teach you a bit of humility. Which your warped pro-American brain seriously lacks.
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Pinky Zebra
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I love Daryl Dixon. I want to lick his face and have his babies.
Posts: 169
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Jun 26, 2014 5:37:40 GMT
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Post by Pinky Zebra on Jul 18, 2014 13:54:59 GMT
Right now, I believe our focus should be at finding, informing and consoling 295 families who have lost loved ones. I know everyone wants to know who did this and why and how this tragedy could have happened in the first place. But those questions will still be there tomorrow and the day after that. For me, it's not a priority at this moment right now. Let experts do their jobs, investigate and based on their conclusions, we will deal. Blaming, pointing fingers and stirring shit won't get any of these people back. For now, there are fellow teachers, colleagues and students to console. I totally agree with you. With that, I'll bow out of the political aspect of this discussion. To my Refupea friends who have been so greatly affected by this terrible situation - - my condolences. Praying for the families of those lost as well as those countries who have been so greatly impacted. My heart goes out to you all.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 18, 2014 13:56:34 GMT
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BarbaraUK
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 18, 2014 13:57:18 GMT
I see that the usual political nut jobs here can't help themselves. But this was not an American plane, it was not over American airspace and the last I heard there wasn't as single American confirmed on board. This was not an attack on America. Be grateful for that and stop trying to twist it into one. So why should the American president be taking an active lead in this? The leaders of The Netherlands, Malaysia, The UK and Australia, Germany, Belgium, The Philippines, New Zealand and Canada are going to be more than capable of leading this, insisting on investigations, dealing with the Russians & Ukrainians etc and taking whatever action is necessary. Your President needs to do exactly what he is currently doing - sending condolences to the families and being involved an any talks involve that involve allies and world leaders in general and offering help & support to the leaders of the other countries. It's not his place or his people to "lead" anyone anywhere with regard to this tragedy. Half the time you're posting that your President needs to stop doing things for other countries and focus on his own people - and when he does just that, then you bitch and moan about him not taking the lead when it's a problem outside of your country. As I said - it's obvious it's just the usual shit stirrers here who try to warp everything into being Obama's fault...and I am just directing my comments to those people in this thread...I do know that not all Americans think like this. Well said, pjaye
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BarbaraUK
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Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 18, 2014 13:59:25 GMT
Right now, I believe our focus should be at finding, informing and consoling 295 families who have lost loved ones. I know everyone wants to know who did this and why and how this tragedy could have happened in the first place. But those questions will still be there tomorrow and the day after that. For me, it's not a priority at this moment right now. Let experts do their jobs, investigate and based on their conclusions, we will deal. Blaming, pointing fingers and stirring shit won't get any of these people back. For now, there are fellow teachers, colleagues and students to console. I totally agree!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 14:00:10 GMT
Not all Americans agree with lynlams claptrap. It embarrasses me to be honest.
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 18, 2014 14:04:23 GMT
Not all Americans agree with lynlams claptrap. It embarrasses me to be honest. Honestly, those of us who have daily interactions with Americans (especially in forums like this one) will recognize that. You're more or less a pretty cool bunch.
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 18, 2014 14:16:56 GMT
Not all Americans agree with lynlams claptrap. It embarrasses me to be honest. Honestly, those of us who have daily interactions with Americans (especially in forums like this one) will recognize that. You're more or less a pretty cool bunch.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2014 14:17:01 GMT
I am reading this while watching the coverage, and it is distressing me greatly.
I am a proud American. But I am not a foolish one, nor am I so ethnocentric that I think my president should be in charge of anything beyond offering support or inclusion in the investigation if asked (which I think we have been in the form of providing help through the use of the NTSB.)
I think I am fairly well informed, and what comes with that is the knowledge that there are billions of other people on the planet who are very capable of governing their own lives/countries without US involvement. We (the US) aren't the only players on the stage of international politics. We need to stop assuming that we are the smartest kids in the room and only we know what is the right way to proceed. It is arrogance, and it isn't pretty to watch.
I am trying to understand, but I just can't find fault with President Obama's actions. At this time, no other leaders are stepping out and saying anything different from what he has-and some of those leaders are WAY more invested in the outcome than we are.
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Post by gar on Jul 18, 2014 14:17:53 GMT
Not all Americans agree with lynlams claptrap. It embarrasses me to be honest. It's ok Scrappower We can see it for what it is.
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Post by juliet on Jul 18, 2014 14:19:36 GMT
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Post by apeacalledliz on Jul 18, 2014 14:25:30 GMT
You remember the discussion about the phrase 'Merica! Lynlam is perfect example of the mentality that word is supposed to embody.
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Post by ingrid6 on Jul 18, 2014 14:39:34 GMT
My heart goes out to all the victims, their families and loved ones. I have no words. We lost at least 154 Dutch citizens today. Me too Juliet. So sad for all of the victims. I just watched a news clip from de Telegraaf, Binnenland Looks like we lost 12 from Indonesië too.
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BarbaraUK
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 18, 2014 14:41:15 GMT
Floral tributes at the entrance to Schiphol Airport in memory of the victims of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. One card reads: "Holland is mourning. The world is in shock. This should have never happened."
This says it all about this tragedy no matter what country the victims were from!
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Post by juliet on Jul 18, 2014 14:45:19 GMT
the outpour of love, kindness and help is truly amazing. Thank goodness there is still so much good in this world.
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