RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,538
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Jul 18, 2014 15:02:45 GMT
I am reading this while watching the coverage, and it is distressing me greatly. I am a proud American. But I am not a foolish one, nor am I so ethnocentric that I think my president should be in charge of anything beyond offering support or inclusion in the investigation if asked (which I think we have been in the form of providing help through the use of the NTSB.) I think I am fairly well informed, and what comes with that is the knowledge that there are billions of other people on the planet who are very capable of governing their own lives/countries without US involvement. We (the US) aren't the only players on the stage of international politics. We need to stop assuming that we are the smartest kids in the room and only we know what is the right way to proceed. It is arrogance, and it isn't pretty to watch. I am trying to understand, but I just can't find fault with President Obama's actions. At this time, no other leaders are stepping out and saying anything different from what he has-and some of those leaders are WAY more invested in the outcome than we are. I agree completely. This is a tragic situation, and investigations need to be thorough. If assistance is needed from the US, we should provide it. We need to offer material help in case it can be used, and then wait to be asked. We need to pray/send positive thoughts to those who need them now. And then we sit back unless we are asked for our help. I'll be honest, I'm one of the people who will commonly find fault with Obama. He doesn't do much right in my eyes. But in this situation, he appears to be doing the appropriate thing - he is offering what our nation can give, without forcing it. He is willing to have the US play a supportive role, IF requested, and not trying to step in as the leader. Those things are appropriate for this tragedy. Yes, it is important for there to be answers, not just for the people immediately affected, but on a global scale as it seems certain this is a political issue. As such, of course the US needs to be involved. I feel confident that our allies and neutral nations will keep us in the loop, and if there is more involvement required or requested, we will be there.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jul 18, 2014 15:40:49 GMT
I am reading this while watching the coverage, and it is distressing me greatly. I am a proud American. But I am not a foolish one, nor am I so ethnocentric that I think my president should be in charge of anything beyond offering support or inclusion in the investigation if asked (which I think we have been in the form of providing help through the use of the NTSB.) I think I am fairly well informed, and what comes with that is the knowledge that there are billions of other people on the planet who are very capable of governing their own lives/countries without US involvement. We (the US) aren't the only players on the stage of international politics. We need to stop assuming that we are the smartest kids in the room and only we know what is the right way to proceed. It is arrogance, and it isn't pretty to watch. I am trying to understand, but I just can't find fault with President Obama's actions. At this time, no other leaders are stepping out and saying anything different from what he has-and some of those leaders are WAY more invested in the outcome than we are. I agree completely. This is a tragic situation, and investigations need to be thorough. If assistance is needed from the US, we should provide it. We need to offer material help in case it can be used, and then wait to be asked. We need to pray/send positive thoughts to those who need them now. And then we sit back unless we are asked for our help. I'll be honest, I'm one of the people who will commonly find fault with Obama. He doesn't do much right in my eyes. But in this situation, he appears to be doing the appropriate thing - he is offering what our nation can give, without forcing it. He is willing to have the US play a supportive role, IF requested, and not trying to step in as the leader. Those things are appropriate for this tragedy. Yes, it is important for there to be answers, not just for the people immediately affected, but on a global scale as it seems certain this is a political issue. As such, of course the US needs to be involved. I feel confident that our allies and neutral nations will keep us in the loop, and if there is more involvement required or requested, we will be there. I also agree with this. I cannot fathom this idea that we are just amazing as a people for simply being born here. It's shameful and embarrassing behavior.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:45:51 GMT
I am reading this while watching the coverage, and it is distressing me greatly. I am a proud American. But I am not a foolish one, nor am I so ethnocentric that I think my president should be in charge of anything beyond offering support or inclusion in the investigation if asked (which I think we have been in the form of providing help through the use of the NTSB.) I think I am fairly well informed, and what comes with that is the knowledge that there are billions of other people on the planet who are very capable of governing their own lives/countries without US involvement. We (the US) aren't the only players on the stage of international politics. We need to stop assuming that we are the smartest kids in the room and only we know what is the right way to proceed. It is arrogance, and it isn't pretty to watch. I am trying to understand, but I just can't find fault with President Obama's actions. At this time, no other leaders are stepping out and saying anything different from what he has-and some of those leaders are WAY more invested in the outcome than we are.
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Post by jamh on Jul 18, 2014 15:49:40 GMT
23 Americans were on the plane.
JamB
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Post by juliet on Jul 18, 2014 15:50:59 GMT
Are you sure?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:53:47 GMT
23 Americans were on the plane. JamB Has this been confirmed? I've seen speculation, but nothing else. Do you have a source?
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2014 15:56:34 GMT
23 Americans were on the plane. JamB Has this been confirmed? I've seen speculation, but nothing else. Do you have a source? I have CNN in on in the background, and they have not yet confirmed any US citizens on the plane. The President is speaking right now...he has not mentioned American passport holders as being on the plane. For those who want clarity of action, I think he is speaking to that now.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,022
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jul 18, 2014 16:00:56 GMT
A link to the BBC article on the victims, at the bottom it gives a breakdown by nationality, so far it seems only four are unverified. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28360827 Confirmed death toll so far Netherlands: 189 Malaysia: 44 (including 15 crew) Australian: 27 Indonesia: 12 UK: 9 Germany: 4 Belgium: 4 Philippines: 3 Canada: 1 New Zealand: 1 Unverified: 4 Total: 298
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2014 16:04:36 GMT
I think while I was replying earlier, I missed President Obama say that there was at least one US citizen on the plane. There is a banner at the bottom of the screen that is quoting him saying this.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,022
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jul 18, 2014 16:04:56 GMT
the outpour of love, kindness and help is truly amazing. Thank goodness there is still so much good in this world. May I extend my condolences, it is a tragic event and I hope that the families are, at the very least, given honest answers about what happened.
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Post by Kelpea on Jul 18, 2014 16:16:29 GMT
So thankful. My mom just confirmed my uncle was not on the plane. He is now getting notification of at least one of his colleagues as having perished. He will be devastated by his losses; and what a tragedy to lose so many fighting the fight for HIV research.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 18, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
A link to the BBC article on the victims, at the bottom it gives a breakdown by nationality, so far it seems only four are unverified. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28360827 Confirmed death toll so far Netherlands: 189 Malaysia: 44 (including 15 crew) Australian: 27 Indonesia: 12 UK: 9 Germany: 4 Belgium: 4 Philippines: 3 Canada: 1 New Zealand: 1 Unverified: 4 Total: 298 The UN are now saying that 80 children were among the 298 on board the airliner.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 18, 2014 17:02:42 GMT
I believe there's only been one confirmed American - an American-Dutch citizen who was presumably traveling on his Dutch passport as the airline hasn't released any passengers traveling on American passports. There may be other dual citizens. I know many friends who only travel on their American passports when entering the US.
I don't think there was anything wrong with Obama's comments about the tragedy, I do think his abrupt transition back to his prepared remarks was awkward. In light of the tragedy, it seems to be the wrong thing to focus on - My thought and prayers are with Holland and the friend and families of all countries touched by this tragedy.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 18, 2014 19:50:29 GMT
You remember the discussion about the phrase 'Merica! Lynlam is perfect example of the mentality that word is supposed to embody. What an absolutely bitchy thing to say. You are just really delightful aren't you...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 19:59:23 GMT
I really hope that POTUS will lead through this. He has an incredible opportunity. A lost opportunity. Was happy to do some fundraising. Very disappointing. Opportunity for what? What in the world did you expect him to do? You might need to check your hatred of him. It is coloring your ability to think rationally.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 20:00:24 GMT
You remember the discussion about the phrase 'Merica! Lynlam is perfect example of the mentality that word is supposed to embody. What an absolutely bitchy thing to say. You are just really delightful aren't you... No it's not bitchy. Lynlams post was though. And downright insulting to the world.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 18, 2014 20:36:54 GMT
What an absolutely bitchy thing to say. You are just really delightful aren't you... No it's not bitchy. Lynlams post was though. And downright insulting to the world. OK, I get it... Because Lynn's opinion doesn't fit your world view, and some others here, it's ok to be condescending, insulting and bitchy. Gotcha. One view is acceptable and it's the one you agree with, all others are open for insult. I just don't understand that mentality. I don't.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 20:52:45 GMT
No it's not bitchy. Lynlams post was though. And downright insulting to the world. OK, I get it... Because Lynn's opinion doesn't fit your world view, and some others here, it's ok to be condescending, insulting and bitchy. Gotcha. One view is acceptable and it's the one you agree with, all others are open for insult. I just don't understand that mentality. I don't. Did you READ her post? Sorry but it was very insulting to everyone. American or not.
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Post by annabella on Jul 18, 2014 20:53:49 GMT
Do you wonder why they targeted a Malaysian airline? I heard somewhere that they could clearly see it was a commercial flight. Seems like if they wanted us to think Russia attacked us they would have shot an American plane, but then I also heard that our planes already knew not to fly over that area because of the conflict.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 18, 2014 21:09:53 GMT
Do you wonder why they targeted a Malaysian airline? I heard somewhere that they could clearly see it was a commercial flight. Seems like if they wanted us to think Russia attacked us they would have shot an American plane, but then I also heard that our planes already knew not to fly over that area because of the conflict. How could they 'clearly see' that it was a commercial flight when it was flying at 33,000ft in the air? Actually it was. It was built by Boeing. Whenever there is a crash involving an American built plane the NTSB always investigates. Not sure that Obama needs to take the lead in anything other than offering the Nation's condolences to the families involved, but America, in the form of the NTSB, does need to be onsite to try and determine whether the American build aircraft was at fault in any way.
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Post by just PEAchy on Jul 18, 2014 21:18:13 GMT
I think while I was replying earlier, I missed President Obama say that there was at least one US citizen on the plane. There is a banner at the bottom of the screen that is quoting him saying this. There was Dutch woman on board who was a graduate student and rower at Indiana University. Maybe the report was referring to her?
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Post by apeacalledliz on Jul 18, 2014 21:33:50 GMT
You remember the discussion about the phrase 'Merica! Lynlam is perfect example of the mentality that word is supposed to embody. What an absolutely bitchy thing to say. You are just really delightful aren't you... Her statement that 'the president of the USA is the leader of the free world'(or something to that effect) is exactly the kind of attitude that the 'Merica meme was created for.. I suppose it wasn't so nice to point it out and yes most people I meet do think I am pretty delightful, even those who have absolutely different world views than I do.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 18, 2014 21:45:40 GMT
I think while I was replying earlier, I missed President Obama say that there was at least one US citizen on the plane. There is a banner at the bottom of the screen that is quoting him saying this. There was Dutch woman on board who was a graduate student and rower at Indiana University. Maybe the report was referring to her? According to CNN: "Obama confirmed that at least one U.S. citizen was aboard the plane; Quinn Lucas Schansman was a student at International Business School Hogeschool van Amsterdam, according to his Facebook page.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 18, 2014 21:54:36 GMT
What an absolutely bitchy thing to say. You are just really delightful aren't you... Her statement that 'the president of the USA is the leader of the free world'(or something to that effect) is exactly the kind of attitude that the 'Merica meme was created for.. I suppose it wasn't so nice to point it out and yes most people I meet do think I am pretty delightful, even those who have absolutely different world views than I do. I do not understand someone voicing something that has been perpetuated by the media for many many years, as some kind of green light to be so nasty. Call her out, tell her you disagree, but to mock like that? My guess is all the friends that find you so delightful might not if they heard you say that. But hey, maybe it's because you have the herd behind you and it's keyboard bravery? I have no clue... I agree with some things Lynn says and disagree with some, probably the same with you, but your personal swipes are unnecessary and rude and I am calling you out on it.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 18, 2014 22:06:45 GMT
OK, I get it... Because Lynn's opinion doesn't fit your world view, and some others here, it's ok to be condescending, insulting and bitchy. Gotcha. One view is acceptable and it's the one you agree with, all others are open for insult. I just don't understand that mentality. I don't. Did you READ her post? Sorry but it was very insulting to everyone. American or not. So much for having a heart for everyone whatever their view... It's on if you think they were rude? Wasn't that what you were upset about with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict/war going on? All humans were important no matter their differences? I assume that means being hurtful even if you don't agree? (Sorry I don't know how to quote from 2 different threads...) I find your choosing who you are sympathetic toward very hypocritical.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:23:26 GMT
Did you READ her post? Sorry but it was very insulting to everyone. American or not. So much for having a heart for everyone whatever their view... It's on if you think they were rude? Wasn't that what you were upset about with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict/war going on? All humans were important no matter their differences? I assume that means being hurtful even if you don't agree? (Sorry I don't know how to quote from 2 different threads...) I find your choosing who you are sympathetic toward very hypocritical. What she posted was extremely xenophobic and untrue. It has nothing to do with me caring about humans. Not one bit. And I'm still waiting for you to answer what you think Obama should've done.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 18, 2014 22:40:51 GMT
So much for having a heart for everyone whatever their view... It's on if you think they were rude? Wasn't that what you were upset about with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict/war going on? All humans were important no matter their differences? I assume that means being hurtful even if you don't agree? (Sorry I don't know how to quote from 2 different threads...) I find your choosing who you are sympathetic toward very hypocritical. ...I'm still waiting for you to answer what you think Obama should've done. I'm pretty sure you really don't want to have a real discussion about this because if one doesn't agree with what you think and one thinks the US has been the leader of the free world that leaves one open to approved insults and nasty comments. So I'm pretty sure you don't *really* want to discuss this. So, no, I don't plan on discussing what I think he should have done with people who have no interest in those who think it's ok to be nasty to those who don't agree with them. It's no discussion at all.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:48:23 GMT
...I'm still waiting for you to answer what you think Obama should've done. I'm pretty sure you really don't want to have a real discussion about this because if one doesn't agree with what you think and one thinks the US has been the leader of the free world that leaves one open to approved insults and nasty comments. So I'm pretty sure you don't *really* want to discuss this. So, no, I don't plan on discussing what I think he should have done with people who have no interest in those who think it's ok to be nasty to those who don't agree with them. It's no discussion at all. Funny plenty of people here have conversations here with me with no issue. But go on thinking I am some awful nasty person. I'm not.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 18, 2014 23:00:46 GMT
God help us, the conspiracy theories have begun. I heard a Ukrainian woman on talk back radio yesterday and her belief is that is was actually the Ukrainian government who shot down the plane to make the Russians look bad, and that America is behind it!!! So THAT explains why the POTUS isn't doing anything! <sarcasm>
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Post by apeacalledliz on Jul 19, 2014 0:57:13 GMT
Her statement that 'the president of the USA is the leader of the free world'(or something to that effect) is exactly the kind of attitude that the 'Merica meme was created for.. I suppose it wasn't so nice to point it out and yes most people I meet do think I am pretty delightful, even those who have absolutely different world views than I do. I do not understand someone voicing something that has been perpetuated by the media for many many years, as some kind of green light to be so nasty. Call her out, tell her you disagree, but to mock like that? My guess is all the friends that find you so delightful might not if they heard you say that. But hey, maybe it's because you have the herd behind you and it's keyboard bravery? I have no clue... I agree with some things Lynn says and disagree with some, probably the same with you, but your personal swipes are unnecessary and rude and I am calling you out on it. It was more the fervor and and nastiness in her post that went along with that statement that brought out the snark. I guess if Lynlam or you for that matter can't handle a bit of snark you might be in the wrong place. I am not the one calling someone else a horrible person and questioning whether or not people in their lives would still find them enjoyable to be around if they heard one snarky statement made on the internet, if we want to talk about being bitchy lets start there.
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