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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 19, 2014 1:09:01 GMT
I do not understand someone voicing something that has been perpetuated by the media for many many years, as some kind of green light to be so nasty. Call her out, tell her you disagree, but to mock like that? My guess is all the friends that find you so delightful might not if they heard you say that. But hey, maybe it's because you have the herd behind you and it's keyboard bravery? I have no clue... I agree with some things Lynn says and disagree with some, probably the same with you, but your personal swipes are unnecessary and rude and I am calling you out on it. It was more the fervor and and nastiness in her post that went along with that statement that brought out the snark. I guess if Lynlam or you for that matter can't handle a bit of snark you might be in the wrong place. I am not the one calling someone else a horrible person and questioning whether or not people in their lives would still find them enjoyable to be around if they heard one snarky statement made on the internet, if we want to talk about being bitchy lets start there.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 19, 2014 1:13:53 GMT
I'm pretty sure you really don't want to have a real discussion about this because if one doesn't agree with what you think and one thinks the US has been the leader of the free world that leaves one open to approved insults and nasty comments. So I'm pretty sure you don't *really* want to discuss this. So, no, I don't plan on discussing what I think he should have done with people who have no interest in those who think it's ok to be nasty to those who don't agree with them. It's no discussion at all. Funny plenty of people here have conversations here with me with no issue. But go on thinking I am some awful nasty person. I'm not. Huh, I didn't say anything about nasty or awful. Not sure why you're jumping all the way over there. I said Liz was being nasty and rude. Unless you're her then I didn't say any such thing about you, I said no real discussion to be had. And no, I've seen others who have had trouble having real discussion, here on 2 Peas, with you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 2:36:00 GMT
Dani, none of us should have to write a script for the man purported to be the smartest man to ever walk the earth, the man that was going to heal the ills of all the world with his mere presence at 1600 pen ave. The man who just claimed that the world was more tranquil than ever thanks to his brilliant aura. Besides, a real leader already wrote and delivered the speech that Obama should have given - Ronald Reagan after the KAL plane was shot down by Russia. THAT is leadership. You seem to forget that the POTUS has historically been the leader of the free world. The souls on that plane were innocent citizens of that free world. Yes, the POTUS is supposed to lead all of is thru crises like this. But our boy wonder has no interest in getting his hands dirty, does he? He can't let anything stand in his way of fundraising and demonizing republicans whole convincing his butt kissers that he is a reasonable man who just wants to play nice. Iraq is still burning, Israel and Hamas are escalating, the border crises is getting worse, and this plane...and Obama cant miss his fundraiser. I have never been more ashamed of this country and the people who still can't see the damage this man-child has done to us, and to the entire world. It does seem strange that his first response to a crisis is to head to a fundraiser. For someone who is supposed to set the tone it's a strange pattern with him. It was bad enough that he refused to go to the border even though he was going to be right there, but he pretty much lost me when he took that opportunity to put the blame for the border crisis on one party. In my mind, that's not what a leader does.
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Post by Judie in Oz on Jul 19, 2014 11:37:56 GMT
Dani, none of us should have to write a script for the man purported to be the smartest man to ever walk the earth, the man that was going to heal the ills of all the world with his mere presence at 1600 pen ave. The man who just claimed that the world was more tranquil than ever thanks to his brilliant aura. Besides, a real leader already wrote and delivered the speech that Obama should have given - Ronald Reagan after the KAL plane was shot down by Russia. THAT is leadership. You seem to forget that the POTUS has historically been the leader of the free world. The souls on that plane were innocent citizens of that free world. Yes, the POTUS is supposed to lead all of is thru crises like this. But our boy wonder has no interest in getting his hands dirty, does he? He can't let anything stand in his way of fundraising and demonizing republicans whole convincing his butt kissers that he is a reasonable man who just wants to play nice. Iraq is still burning, Israel and Hamas are escalating, the border crises is getting worse, and this plane...and Obama cant miss his fundraiser. I have never been more ashamed of this country and the people who still can't see the damage this man-child has done to us, and to the entire world. It does seem strange that his first response to a crisis is to head to a fundraiser. For someone who is supposed to set the tone it's a strange pattern with him. It was bad enough that he refused to go to the border even though he was going to be right there, but he pretty much lost me when he took that opportunity to put the blame for the border crisis on one party. In my mind, that's not what a leader does. It's not his crisis to need to respond to. There are several nations involved that need to respond and are doing so. The flight was shot down by pro-Russian separatists, with a Russian-made and supplied missile. The leader that has a lot to answer for is Putin. So much so that it looks like he will be banned from the G20 summit here in Australia. That may call for involvement from America and others, but, until then, let us get on with it.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 19, 2014 14:20:35 GMT
It does seem strange that his first response to a crisis is to head to a fundraiser. For someone who is supposed to set the tone it's a strange pattern with him. It was bad enough that he refused to go to the border even though he was going to be right there, but he pretty much lost me when he took that opportunity to put the blame for the border crisis on one party. In my mind, that's not what a leader does. It's not his crisis to need to respond to. There are several nations involved that need to respond and are doing so. The flight was shot down by pro-Russian separatists, with a Russian-made and supplied missile. The leader that has a lot to answer for is Putin. So much so that it looks like he will be banned from the G20 summit here in Australia. That may call for involvement from America and others, but, until then, let us get on with it. And that is the provincialism that seems to overlook the obvious for many of us. While you may forget, or not recognize, this country has been the target of substantial terror attack using airplanes. I'm not negating that others have dealt with terror as well. There isn't a time I'm at the airport, and I fly frequently, that you don't hear people mention airplanes used in terror, most frequently in nervous joking. But that people think about it and factor in the possibility when flying is my point. For this president to ignore that and to not address it to the American people, is failing in his most minimal duties. At least some of us think so. And I recognize it's not an issue for me, I put little confidence in this man anyway, there are many like my aged parents who do look to a President, to hear he's following the situation. Obama rolled over the situation in his speech on something else, like it was an afterthought...
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 19, 2014 14:37:38 GMT
...I'm still waiting for you to answer what you think Obama should've done. I'm pretty sure you really don't want to have a real discussion about this because if one doesn't agree with what you think and one thinks the US has been the leader of the free world that leaves one open to approved insults and nasty comments. So I'm pretty sure you don't *really* want to discuss this. So, no, I don't plan on discussing what I think he should have done with people who have no interest in those who think it's ok to be nasty to those who don't agree with them. It's no discussion at all. I'm the one who asked. And I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to discuss it.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Jul 19, 2014 16:23:04 GMT
I'm pretty sure you really don't want to have a real discussion about this because if one doesn't agree with what you think and one thinks the US has been the leader of the free world that leaves one open to approved insults and nasty comments. So I'm pretty sure you don't *really* want to discuss this. So, no, I don't plan on discussing what I think he should have done with people who have no interest in those who think it's ok to be nasty to those who don't agree with them. It's no discussion at all. I'm the one who asked. And I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to discuss it.See my post above yours. I think the US President should speak to the citizens when there is a tragedy in the world. And he should *especially* speak to the people of the US when it's a tragedy that hits the heart of them. That is what I think he should have done. But he didn't. He mealy mouthed his way through less than 30 seconds of "...it may be a terrible tragedy." Not once did he even say our hearts and or P & PT's are with the families and countries of the accident. At that time there was credible information that as many as 23 US citizens were on board. At least that is what the public thought. He joked, he talked about infrastructure, and how it's the Republicans fault. Is that enough? He was woefully absent AGAIN, as a leader. Absent. Blame and spend. He's at least got a new twist on the tax and spend...
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 19, 2014 17:49:15 GMT
I'm the one who asked. And I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to discuss it. See my post above yours. I think the US President should speak to the citizens when there is a tragedy in the world. And he should *especially* speak to the people of the US when it's a tragedy that hits the heart of them. That is what I think he should have done. But he didn't. He mealy mouthed his way through less than 30 seconds of "...it may be a terrible tragedy." Not once did he even say our hearts and or P & PT's are with the families and countries of the accident. At that time there was credible information that as many as 23 US citizens were on board. At least that is what the public thought. He joked, he talked about infrastructure, and how it's the Republicans fault. Is that enough? He was woefully absent AGAIN, as a leader. Absent. Blame and spend. He's at least got a new twist on the tax and spend... Are you talking about his Wilmington speech, the one in which he said,"And as a country, our thoughts and prayers are with all the families of the passengers, wherever they call home."? It was made within 3 hours of the tragedy. So, I ask again, what exactly do you think he should have said given how little concrete information the world had at that time? Personally, I think that addressing it in any other way than what he had would have been irresponsible. How about the remarks he made yesterday after he had more information? Were they more to your liking? And I find it odd that you call the initial reports about the number of Americans on board 'credible' given how wrong they turned out to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 17:58:11 GMT
It does seem strange that his first response to a crisis is to head to a fundraiser. For someone who is supposed to set the tone it's a strange pattern with him. It was bad enough that he refused to go to the border even though he was going to be right there, but he pretty much lost me when he took that opportunity to put the blame for the border crisis on one party. In my mind, that's not what a leader does. It's not his crisis to need to respond to. There are several nations involved that need to respond and are doing so. The flight was shot down by pro-Russian separatists, with a Russian-made and supplied missile. The leader that has a lot to answer for is Putin. So much so that it looks like he will be banned from the G20 summit here in Australia. That may call for involvement from America and others, but, until then, let us get on with it. It's not his crisis to run and fix, but he should have given it more than 30 seconds. Even if everyone agreed that he should go party and fund raise during this crisis, he has a pattern of running to a fundraiser during a crisis. Most of them were his crisis to respond to. I don't see it as an appropriate action for a leader to take during any crisis.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Jul 19, 2014 18:01:53 GMT
I suspect that if President Obama had dropped everything and retreated to the Oval Office to "manage the crisis" we would be hearing the following: There were no Americans on that plane. Why is the POTUS sticking his nose where it doesn't belong? Don't we have enough problems in this country to tend to? Why doesn't he focus on his own people and let other countries worry about their own?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 18:07:31 GMT
I think you will find Dalia Mama there is a segment of the US population that is going to find fault with whatever this President does justified or not. Because they are so prejudice one tends to tune them out after awhile as they have nothing constructive to bring to the conversation. Anna.B seems to belong to this segment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 18:38:44 GMT
Juliet, I am so sorry that so many of the citizens of your country were killed because of this senseless act of terrorism, and especially that your colleague was killed. I will be praying for them, their families, and for the rest of the families that have loved ones on board. I don't want to argue and fight on this thread, because of the subject involved, but I do agree with everything Anna Banana has said, especially this: Krazyscrapper, I hope that one day President Obama handles a situation in a way that I can be proud of. He hasn't yet that I can remember, but he still has 2.5 years. If he does, I will say so on this board. You have my word on that. Of course, if he DOES handle something in a way that I would like, you would probably hate it. And last, but certainly not least, to my dear friend Kelpea, I am so glad that your uncle is okay, and I am so sorry that one of his colleagues lost his life in such a horrible way!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 20:08:29 GMT
Sorry Jodster I have read enough of your posts to put you in the same category as Anna.B
Not bring snarky just stating an observation I have made over the many months we have posting on Two Peas and now Two Peas Refugees.
It is what it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 20:33:33 GMT
And McCain blamed Obama for this attack. Seriously time for that man to retire.
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 19, 2014 20:42:50 GMT
Sorry Jodster I have read enough of your posts to put you in the same category as Anna.B Not bring snarky just stating an observation I have made over the many months we have posting on Two Peas and now Two Peas Refugees. It is what it is. Yeah, no. I don't know what 'category' you are putting Anna in but, in my experience, jodster is very thoughtful in her positions. That doesn't mean that she doesn't lean oh-so-far to the right , but I find that she tries to take each situation on its own merits.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 19, 2014 21:13:28 GMT
Hey, Turkey just blamed Israel and the Jews for the downing of the Malaysian flight. Personally I think the UK was behind it all. (j/k)
Poor Obama, he's never going to get to say anything that acceptable to some folks. All he's obligated to do is express the sympathy of the American people to the families and loved ones of those who were killed, and he did that. There's no reason to make it all about us. This is where the Prime Minister of the Netherlands gets to take center stage and maybe the President of Malaysian Airlines too. Everyone else gets to send their condolences.
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Post by Sam on Jul 19, 2014 21:22:53 GMT
Hey, Turkey just blamed Israel and the Jews for the downing of the Malaysian flight. Personally I think the UK was behind it all. (j/k) Thanks. Sometimes, even when you put the j/k behind a comment, it's not always in good taste. Having said that, I hope you and your family are safe tonight and send my best wishes to you going through this time.
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Post by ntsf on Jul 19, 2014 21:32:30 GMT
re statement that US historically has been the leader of the "free world"...this really only has been batted around since ww2. before that, the UK was the leader of the "free world" for several centuries before that...and had the greatest navy in the world for several centuries to project that power. please learn the history of the world, and not so us focused...we had a puny army and navy before ww2
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Post by I-95 on Jul 19, 2014 21:39:18 GMT
You can't possibly think I was serious with the UK comment, can you? C'mon, this whole blame game thing with the Malaysian flight has gotten absurd. The Americans have been blamed, now the Israelis, both are equally absurd as blaming the Brits. What really is in bad taste is the looting of the passenger's personal belongings from the crash site.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 19, 2014 22:08:25 GMT
I'm not looking for Mr. Obama to take the lead or to promise me that I won't be shot out of the sky the next time I fly. ('Cause I wouldn't believe him, anyway.)
Thinking about our recent presidents, from very different backgrounds, they don't embarrass me or make me feel ashamed. Well, maybe sometimes. They seem to remember most of their protocol training; they're affable and often charming. Yeah, Mr. GW Bush sometimes tripped over his words or employed poor word choice; Mr. Clinton could be smarmy; Mr. Obama has some verbal and oratorical tics. But all three seem genuine, if occasionally flustered or guarded, when reacting to events.
I just can't imagine being consistently ashamed of a president, no matter whether I agree with his (her?!) politics.
[Well, I also lived through Mr. Nixon. It's notable, though, that among other problems, he was probably the rare introvert among modern US presidents. (Not saying that's bad. I am one, but it's probably not the best personality for the job.)]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 2:00:20 GMT
Sorry Jodster I have read enough of your posts to put you in the same category as Anna.B Not bring snarky just stating an observation I have made over the many months we have posting on Two Peas and now Two Peas Refugees. It is what it is. Yeah, no. I don't know what 'category' you are putting Anna in but, in my experience, jodster is very thoughtful in her positions. That doesn't mean that she doesn't lean oh-so-far to the right , but I find that she tries to take each situation on its own merits. Thanks Jo. Believe it or not Krazy, I do try to look at each situation individually, even when it involves President Obama.
AB is a very smart, fair pea, FYI, who's been around for a long time. I have always liked Anna very much.
Just because a pea is conservative, doesn't mean that I like them or the way they express themselves. (I hope you never know if I dislike someone. There are one or two around here, but I try not to show it. The only people that I don't like are the ones, on both sides, who seem to automatically dislike someone who has a differing opinion, never consider what they say, and are unnecessarily nasty all the time.)
PS...Believe it or not, Jo, my DH is even more conservative politically than me. However, we have differing hot button issues. And he's the only conservative in his immediate family that he grew up in. I sometimes ask him what happened to him, lol!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 2:11:31 GMT
Amelia, it's not that I'm consistently ashamed of President Obama. I'm consistently irritated by him though. With him, it's because of his consistently condescending manner toward anyone who differs politically than him.
About former Presidents: I loved Reagan's demeanor, and I was young when '41 was President, so he always seemed like a kindly grandpa to me, and actually still does. I was very, very young when Nixon, Ford, and Carter were presidents, so I really don't have much remembrance of them in the news. I disliked Clinton, but thought he was charming in a surface kind of way, and politically very savvy. I have gained quite a bit of respect for former President Clinton since his presidency actually, and have lost respect for President Carter in the last few years. '43 could bumble a bit, but I always liked him, and still do.
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Post by dawndoll on Jul 20, 2014 6:28:02 GMT
I suspect that if President Obama had dropped everything and retreated to the Oval Office to "manage the crisis" we would be hearing the following: There were no Americans on that plane. Why is the POTUS sticking his nose where it doesn't belong? Don't we have enough problems in this country to tend to? Why doesn't he focus on his own people and let other countries worry about their own? And I would agree with that. While this is a very sad and horrible thing that happened, and my heart goes out to all of the families of those lost, we DO have enough of our own problems to contend with. I think that acknowledging the tragedy and offering sympathy is enough if it doesn't directly involve us.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jul 20, 2014 9:07:24 GMT
Just an observation here. I personally think that statement is a very arrogant way of looking at the world! I doubt very much that the POTUS has historically been regarded as the leader of the free world though that may be the American thinking. No other government is waiting to follow the USA lead in this.....they have all instigated their own thoughts and courses of action already and don't need to have anyone speak for them. To be honest, I think that the countries with people involved in this tragedy would be insulted if they thought they had to wait for the US to take the lead. I would also add that David Cameron and Philip Hammond our Foreign Secretary ( who's only been in the job a few days) chose their words very carefully today so as not to speculate as to what had happened and further inflame the situation before all the facts were in. I was also impressed by Prince William and the Australian Foreign Minister which conducted their press conference with grace and dignity. There were many other official spokespersons from other countries too. No Lynlam, other countries are not reliant of the US to lead the world. I couldn't have put it better myself. How effing arrogant! Wake up. Tony Blair is history, and the UK is no longer an aircraft carrier for the US. However, that is a debate for another day.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 20, 2014 10:36:05 GMT
I voted for Reagan, didn't much care for Bush Sr. when he was President, but have liked him a lot since he left office, mainly because he prefers to hang out with Bubba Clinton rather than GW. I loved Bubba, loathed GW and was embarrassed by a lot of the stupid things he said, but unlike the Obama haters, I mostly kept my mouth shut...and I think Obama is OK. Yes, you're much too nice to let anyone know, but if anyone is mean to you, you can hold my earrings while I take care of them for you
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BarbaraUK
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 20, 2014 11:56:59 GMT
It's not his crisis to need to respond to. There are several nations involved that need to respond and are doing so. The flight was shot down by pro-Russian separatists, with a Russian-made and supplied missile. The leader that has a lot to answer for is Putin. So much so that it looks like he will be banned from the G20 summit here in Australia. That may call for involvement from America and others, but, until then, let us get on with it. And that is the provincialism that seems to overlook the obvious for many of us. While you may forget, or not recognize, this country has been the target of substantial terror attack using airplanes. Sorry, tried to but can't sit on my hands regarding this any longer. Anna*Banana are you saying that Australia and the rest of the world are provincial apart from the US? If so, this statement confounds me and I was really saddened that a USA citizen could hold this view of the rest of the world and use this word! We are not citizens of the US nor are we narrow minded, unsophisticated or country bumpkins if we live outside the US. I'm also not altogether sure how you can justify using this ' While you may forget, or not recognize', as it is a total insult to many countries of the world. A lot of nationalities were killed in the 9/11 incident, not just Americans and that is an insult to those people. It was a shocking event that deeply saddened the whole world and they haven't forgotten it. Also a lot of countries have experienced substantial terror attacks, even if it didn't involve using airplanes, but using methods of transportation, and know at first hand how shocking, distressing and life changing that sort of thing is......and on a much more regular basis.....and wouldn't want to forget 9/11. Your POTUS should talk to the citizens of the USA about this plane crisis as all other leaders should do for their countries! What was actually being contested is the view that he should speak on behalf of the whole world about it.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jul 20, 2014 12:09:43 GMT
And that is the provincialism that seems to overlook the obvious for many of us. While you may forget, or not recognize, this country has been the target of substantial terror attack using airplanes. Sorry, tried to but can't sit on my hands regarding this any longer. Anna*Banana are you saying that Australia and the rest of the world are provincial apart from the US? If so, this statement confounds me and I was really saddened that a USA citizen could hold this view of the rest of the world and use this word! We are not citizens of the US nor are we narrow minded, unsophisticated or country bumpkins if we live outside the US. I'm also not altogether sure how you can justify using these ' While you may forget, or not recognize', as it is a total insult to many countries of the world. A lot of nationalities were killed in the 9/11 incident, not just Americans and that is an insult to those people. It was a shocking event that deeply saddened the whole world and they haven't forgotten it. Also a lot of countries have experienced substantial terror attacks, even if it didn't involve using airplanes, but using methods of transportation, and know at first hand how shocking, distressing and life changing that sort of thing is......and on a much more regular basis.....and wouldn't want to forget 9/11. Your POTUS should talk to the citizens of the USA about this plane crisis as all other leaders should do for their countries! What was actually being contested is the view that he should speak on behalf of the whole world about it. The son of a very good friend of my husband's was killed in the 9/11 attack. I'm confident that his parents would take issue with you, Anna*Banana, about it being a purely US matter.
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Post by juliet on Jul 20, 2014 14:42:06 GMT
We've found out that not only we lost one of our professors, we also lost two students. Oh, and I did a little asking around. Asked a few people what they thought about how your president is handling the whole situation and what they thought about his leadership towards 'the free world' during this whole ordeal. They all looked at me like I had two heads They did however have an opinion about what our own PM is doing and/or should be doing. So there's that.
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Post by gar on Jul 20, 2014 15:01:19 GMT
I'm sorry Juliet, so sorry for your losses.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 20, 2014 15:03:15 GMT
Juliet, I'm so sorry you have had more sad news about your colleagues.
What did your peeps say about how your PM was handling the situation? I saw him on TV the other night and I thought he handled himself very well.
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