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Post by lucyg on Sept 17, 2015 19:52:09 GMT
Planned Parenthood is not breaking any law... According to the latest video they are. "Deb VanDerhei, the national director for the Consortium of Abortion Providers at Planned Parenthood Federation of America asks the buyer if he “just wants livers.” He says he’s looking for everything. She asks about “remuneration,” which is a fancy word for financial compensation. She brings up the question of profits on her own and without prompting, and worries that the kickbacks be handled “carefully” because “the headlines would be a disaster.” She says she only wants to sell the parts if, "it's worth it". She says she knows they can “generate a fair amount of income doing this,” which is a statement that directly contradicts the claim that they aren't in it for profit. Planned Parenthood official, Vanessa Russo says she “won’t be bullied by ridiculous law”. She denies that Planned Parenthood “should curtail its business for ridiculousness” (the law is the “ridiculousness” in this case)." It’s been established well beyond a reasonable doubt that they are breaking the law: they’re admitting it on camera. There are indications that an individual associated with Planned Parenthood may (MAY) be skirting the law. That is a far cry from "established beyond a reasonable doubt that [Planned Parenthood is] breaking the law." Your statement to the contrary is as disingenuous as Carly Fiorina's claim on national TV that the videos show a living delivered baby being prepped for brain tissue donation. Which, in case you are unaware, none of them do. And if you close down Planned Parenthood, it isn't nearly as simple as "others will step in" to provide the same services, minus abortion. Many PPs offer the only easily accessible women's health services in isolated or blighted areas, and I don't see bunches of other medical groups jumping up and down to provide free or low-cost services to low-income women. Once again Republicans may mean well, but the effects of their policies will hurt women in the end.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 17, 2015 19:53:59 GMT
According to the latest video they are. "Deb VanDerhei, the national director for the Consortium of Abortion Providers at Planned Parenthood Federation of America asks the buyer if he “just wants livers.” He says he’s looking for everything. She asks about “remuneration,” which is a fancy word for financial compensation. She brings up the question of profits on her own and without prompting, and worries that the kickbacks be handled “carefully” because “the headlines would be a disaster.” She says she only wants to sell the parts if, "it's worth it". She says she knows they can “generate a fair amount of income doing this,” which is a statement that directly contradicts the claim that they aren't in it for profit. Planned Parenthood official, Vanessa Russo says she “won’t be bullied by ridiculous law”. She denies that Planned Parenthood “should curtail its business for ridiculousness” (the law is the “ridiculousness” in this case)." It’s been established well beyond a reasonable doubt that they are breaking the law: they’re admitting it on camera. There is absolutely no doubt that they are breaking the law, is there? And you left out the part where she said "Oh, and the FRESH GONADS. Oh my God, the GONADS!" I still can't fathom a decent human being listening to these videos and still supporting this evil. But then again, most of those who are still supporting them refuse to watch the videos, don't they? Dismiss them as altered or out of context, without doing their research. The hallmark of someone who doesn't want to see the truth before them, doesn't want to challenge their own status quo. But this isn't about abortion. This is about the selling of human baby parts for profit. PROFIT. PP is doing that. Planned Parenthood does NOT provide services that women can't get anywhere else. There are, by far, thousands more community health clinics that actually DO provide comprehensive women's health care in this country. Over 13,000 of them, to be more exact, versus less than 700 PP clinics. Planned Parenthood does NOT provide mammograms, only referrals. So they provide BC and STI tests, and abortions. And abortions are their bread and butter, make no mistake. So if PP is defunded and goes belly up (Which wont' happen - they make a big enough profit to cover the loss), there will be plenty of providers to step in and take up the slack. Senate Republicans have introduced a bill to defund this monstrosity. But their plan would take the half a billion dollars that PP gets, and divert it to the other health clinics that serve the same areas that PP does. So stop with the "ANTI WOMAN" bullcrap. That's lazy, so lazy. The GOP is full of smart, educated informed women who support the right of a baby to be born, and abhor the butchering for profit of their little bodies. That is about as PRO WOMAN as you can get, right there. I hope they shut the government down over this. I hope they force the democrats to explain why they support an orgainzation that breaks the law every day and profits from it, all while taking OUR tax dollars. But I'm not holding my breath. And naturally, I disagree with every word you said, too.
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lcp88
Junior Member
PeaNut Number: 524269 :)
Posts: 99
Jul 1, 2014 20:49:15 GMT
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Post by lcp88 on Sept 17, 2015 20:01:43 GMT
Do you have a source from not an extreme right wing site? I'm not seeing anything come up that isnt from some sort of anti-choice propaganda machine. I saw This but it's from back in July.
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lcp88
Junior Member
PeaNut Number: 524269 :)
Posts: 99
Jul 1, 2014 20:49:15 GMT
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Post by lcp88 on Sept 17, 2015 20:11:42 GMT
And abortions are their bread and butter, make no mistake. This is simply not true. You're perfectly entitled to your own beliefs, but not your own facts. 3% is not bread and butter.
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Post by Sam on Sept 17, 2015 20:15:30 GMT
I have a shot every time I see his name mentioned here -I've been pissed since a week last Tuesday!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 20:25:05 GMT
According to the latest video they are. "Deb VanDerhei, the national director for the Consortium of Abortion Providers at Planned Parenthood Federation of America asks the buyer if he “just wants livers.” He says he’s looking for everything. She asks about “remuneration,” which is a fancy word for financial compensation. She brings up the question of profits on her own and without prompting, and worries that the kickbacks be handled “carefully” because “the headlines would be a disaster.” She says she only wants to sell the parts if, "it's worth it". She says she knows they can “generate a fair amount of income doing this,” which is a statement that directly contradicts the claim that they aren't in it for profit. Planned Parenthood official, Vanessa Russo says she “won’t be bullied by ridiculous law”. She denies that Planned Parenthood “should curtail its business for ridiculousness” (the law is the “ridiculousness” in this case)." It’s been established well beyond a reasonable doubt that they are breaking the law: they’re admitting it on camera. There is absolutely no doubt that they are breaking the law, is there? Apparently there is. Doesn't even matter if you catch it on camera, some will find a reason why, yes it's happening but it doesn't count for some contrived reason.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Sept 17, 2015 23:52:46 GMT
Carly is a liar. linkFrom the link: "But the image she described isn’t in any of the videos released by the antiabortion group. Instead, one video from the group depicts a former employee of a tissue procurement company stating what she says she saw at a Planned Parenthood clinic. There was never any video that depicted, as Ms. Fiorina stated, a live fetus on a table being prepared for organ harvesting."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 0:16:19 GMT
To those who think the Planned Parenthood videos have not been edited in such a way they are twisting the facts I have a question.
Where is the corroboration by a disinterested third party the information on the videos is indeed factual? Or don't you think it's necessary and if so why?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 0:32:52 GMT
To those who think the Planned Parenthood videos have not been edited in such a way they are twisting the facts I have a question. Where is the corroboration by a disinterested third party the information on the videos is indeed factual? Or don't you think it's necessary and if so why? It's been said several times in these threads, the it's really idiotic to keep complaining that the videos are edited, when the videos are available online unedited. Also, the House Oversight Committee has issued a subpoena for hundreds of hours of secretly recorded footage of Planned Parenthood and its partners as part of an ongoing investigation into the use of fetal tissue donations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 0:54:24 GMT
link
For those who think videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article from someone who watch the entire video. There is always two sides. At this point I don't believe there is enough information showing that Planned Parenthood has done anything illegal. I would not have a problem with an independent study by someone in the field that actually know what to look for and not by members of Congress who at the best of times don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 1:20:35 GMT
link
For those who think videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article from someone who watch the entire video. There is always two sides. At this point I don't believe there is enough information showing that Planned Parenthood has done anything illegal. I would not have a problem with an independent study by someone in the field that actually know what to look for and not by members of Congress who at the best of times don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. I've read that article before, hell I've even quoted it before. I don't think you actually read it, though. It doesn't say they aren't doing anything wrong. It doesn't say that at all. In fact it points out several problem areas in the videos. Problems for Planned Parenthood. As far as the congressional investigation, I'm sure they'll have much input from people in the field that know what to look for and know their ass from a hole in the ground.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 1:34:19 GMT
link
For those who think videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article from someone who watch the entire video. There is always two sides. At this point I don't believe there is enough information showing that Planned Parenthood has done anything illegal. I would not have a problem with an independent study by someone in the field that actually know what to look for and not by members of Congress who at the best of times don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. I've read that article before. I don't think you did. It doesn't say they aren't doing anything wrong. It doesn't say that at all. In fact it points out several problem areas in the videos. Problems for Planned Parenthood. As far as the congressional investigation, I'm sure they'll have much input from people in the field that know what to look for and know their ass from a hole in the ground. No I read it. Like I said I don't have a problem with an audit being done to check the procedures to make sure they AREN'T doing anything illegal. You must have missed that part or it didn't register. As far as Congress goes you seem to have more faith in them then I do. The Republicans are out for blood that is why I think disinterested third parties in the medical field should do audits to find out the truth. You do want to know the truth don't you?
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Post by lucyg on Sept 18, 2015 1:35:32 GMT
Carly is a liar. linkFrom the link: "But the image she described isn’t in any of the videos released by the antiabortion group. Instead, one video from the group depicts a former employee of a tissue procurement company stating what she says she saw at a Planned Parenthood clinic. There was never any video that depicted, as Ms. Fiorina stated, a live fetus on a table being prepared for organ harvesting."Once delivered and breathing, it wouldn't be a fetus anymore. It would be a living, breathing baby. This supposed former PP employee is describing outright first-degree murder which apparently she decided not to tell anyone about until the anti-abortion-rights thugs interviewed her. Where are the police? Where is the homicide investigation? I don't believe crap out of this woman's mouth unless and until it is verified by a legitimate source. ETA and it is irresponsible, to say the least, for Carly Fiorina to repeat this crap as if she witnessed it with her own eyes. She accuses Hilary Clinton of lying but that is one very obvious whopper on her part.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 2:09:40 GMT
I've read that article before. I don't think you did. It doesn't say they aren't doing anything wrong. It doesn't say that at all. In fact it points out several problem areas in the videos. Problems for Planned Parenthood. As far as the congressional investigation, I'm sure they'll have much input from people in the field that know what to look for and know their ass from a hole in the ground. No I read it. Like I said I don't have a problem with an audit being done to check the procedures to make sure they AREN'T doing anything illegal. You must have missed that part or it didn't register. As far as Congress goes you seem to have more faith in them then I do. The Republicans are out for blood that is why I think disinterested third parties in the medical field should do audits to find out the truth. You do want to know the truth don't you? You presented that article as if it denied any wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood and it doesn't. Not even close.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 3:07:48 GMT
No I read it. Like I said I don't have a problem with an audit being done to check the procedures to make sure they AREN'T doing anything illegal. You must have missed that part or it didn't register. As far as Congress goes you seem to have more faith in them then I do. The Republicans are out for blood that is why I think disinterested third parties in the medical field should do audits to find out the truth. You do want to know the truth don't you? You presented that article as if it denied any wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood. No I said there are two sides to every story. Which means some folks made a video and the guy who wrote the article pointed out some flaws in the video. Or if you don't understand what it means how about this. Not everything is as it seems. Or we should get all the facts before we take them out and hang them. Or maybe this the article raised some valid points that should be explored before judgement is passed. Now if I had I meant to imply the article proved PP had done nothing wrong I would have just said it. If you don't understand what I have said that is on you and I'm not going to waste anymore time on this subject with you because I think I have been clear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 3:40:39 GMT
You presented that article as if it denied any wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood. No I said there are two sides to every story. Which means some folks made a video and the guy who wrote the article pointed out some flaws in the video. Yes, and you also said "For those who think videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article from someone who watch the entire video." Which sounds an awful lot like you're trying to present the article as if it it denied any wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood because "the videos aren't true". The "guy who wrote the article", who is in fact, not a guy at all, also said the points you are referring to in no way show that Planned Parenthood is not doing wrong. In fact they believe Planned Parenthood looks to be doing very wrong. Nobody's taking them out and hanging them. There is a Congressional investigation going on. One where they didn't seek your approval to do so, or input on which experts to involve, but nonetheless, is happening. It’s been established well beyond a reasonable doubt that they are breaking the law: they’re admitting it on camera in videos released after the article...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 4:11:03 GMT
Yes, and you also said "For those who think videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article from someone who watch the entire video." Which sounds an awful lot like you're trying to present the article as if it it denied any wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood because How did " for those who think the videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article. There are two sides to every story". Become PP did no wrong? It means the videos are flawed and the question becomes how flawed they are and what is the truth and what facts are being manipulated by the people who made the video. And that is why an independent study needs to be done to get to the truth. But it seems you already made your mind based on flawed information. So be it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 4:33:02 GMT
Yes, and you also said "For those who think videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article from someone who watch the entire video." Which sounds an awful lot like you're trying to present the article as if it it denied any wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood because How did " for those who think the videos are true you may want to take a gander at the attached article. There are two sides to every story". Become PP did no wrong? It means the videos are flawed and the question becomes how flawed they are and what is the truth and what facts are being manipulated by the people who made the video. And that is why an independent study needs to be done to get to the truth. But it seems you already made your mind based on flawed information. So be it. "For those who think the video is true... Read this article." Generally means you believe them to be not true and here's an article proving it. Thats how I got here in my understanding. We both agree an investigation needs to take place and they're doing that, so we'll see what they find.
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Post by jonda1974 on Sept 18, 2015 13:53:01 GMT
According to the latest video they are. "Deb VanDerhei, the national director for the Consortium of Abortion Providers at Planned Parenthood Federation of America asks the buyer if he “just wants livers.” He says he’s looking for everything. She asks about “remuneration,” which is a fancy word for financial compensation. She brings up the question of profits on her own and without prompting, and worries that the kickbacks be handled “carefully” because “the headlines would be a disaster.” She says she only wants to sell the parts if, "it's worth it". She says she knows they can “generate a fair amount of income doing this,” which is a statement that directly contradicts the claim that they aren't in it for profit. Planned Parenthood official, Vanessa Russo says she “won’t be bullied by ridiculous law”. She denies that Planned Parenthood “should curtail its business for ridiculousness” (the law is the “ridiculousness” in this case)." It’s been established well beyond a reasonable doubt that they are breaking the law: they’re admitting it on camera. There are indications that an individual associated with Planned Parenthood may (MAY) be skirting the law. That is a far cry from "established beyond a reasonable doubt that [Planned Parenthood is] breaking the law." Your statement to the contrary is as disingenuous as Carly Fiorina's claim on national TV that the videos show a living delivered baby being prepped for brain tissue donation. Which, in case you are unaware, none of them do. And if you close down Planned Parenthood, it isn't nearly as simple as "others will step in" to provide the same services, minus abortion. Many PPs offer the only easily accessible women's health services in isolated or blighted areas, and I don't see bunches of other medical groups jumping up and down to provide free or low-cost services to low-income women. Once again Republicans may mean well, but the effects of their policies will hurt women in the end. Lucy - I'm sorry, but there have been enough videos of their executives discussing these things, that the problem is systemic. I understand the need for low-cost services, but quite frankly Planned Parenthood can do it without government funding. Why do we fund them instead of others? I'm sure if we funded others with the money given to Planned Parenthood with the stipulation that they step into the neighborhoods currently served by Planned Parenthood the gap would be filled. They have in other videos discussed the details of performing partial birth abortions in order to preserve the brain intact. Its the only reason to turn the baby breach. Let's just be honest though. There really is nothing that they could do that you wouldn't try to defend. I'm not being mean, I'm just continually seeing excuses being made for Planned Parenthood, and it isn't because of supporting PP, it's because of the fear that if they go away, who fills in the gap. So let them do what they want, as long as they continue to provide services right?
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Post by jonda1974 on Sept 18, 2015 14:01:59 GMT
What is stopping the rest of them? Money, usually. Planned Parenthood does not refuse treatment for preventative services like gynocological exams or birth control, so if you're not able to pay the traditional fees associated with such care, it's covered there. Sometimes basics like transportation and access to quality neighborhood care (eg if they live in a low-income area, it's a lot harder to find a doctor close by. PP typically has centers closer to them) is also a hinderance. If they are students at a religious school, many get their birth control perscriptions filled there since campus health centers will not. Or, in the case of an aquaintance (I know, I know - ancedata!), she was sexually assaulted but still on her parents insurance (23 at the time). She chose to go to PP for STI testing and counseling so that she could tell her parents when she was ready to, and not when her parents got the insurance bill and saw the codes for an HIV test. 1 in 5 women will go to a Planned Parenthood center in their lifetime. Most go for STIs or contraceptives. Abortions are only 3% of their services. Many centers do not perform them. Do We Still Need Planned Parenthood?
How Does Planned Parenthood Spend That Government Money?Then Planned Parenthood can do what other non-profits do. Rely on donations, or the money they make "transporting" body parts. They don't need government money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 14:43:06 GMT
There are indications that an individual associated with Planned Parenthood may (MAY) be skirting the law. That is a far cry from "established beyond a reasonable doubt that [Planned Parenthood is] breaking the law." Your statement to the contrary is as disingenuous as Carly Fiorina's claim on national TV that the videos show a living delivered baby being prepped for brain tissue donation. Which, in case you are unaware, none of them do. And if you close down Planned Parenthood, it isn't nearly as simple as "others will step in" to provide the same services, minus abortion. Many PPs offer the only easily accessible women's health services in isolated or blighted areas, and I don't see bunches of other medical groups jumping up and down to provide free or low-cost services to low-income women. Once again Republicans may mean well, but the effects of their policies will hurt women in the end. Lucy - I'm sorry, but there have been enough videos of their executives discussing these things, that the problem is systemic. I understand the need for low-cost services, but quite frankly Planned Parenthood can do it without government funding. Why do we fund them instead of others? I'm sure if we funded others with the money given to Planned Parenthood with the stipulation that they step into the neighborhoods currently served by Planned Parenthood the gap would be filled. They have in other videos discussed the details of performing partial birth abortions in order to preserve the brain intact. Its the only reason to turn the baby breach. Let's just be honest though. There really is nothing that they could do that you wouldn't try to defend. I'm not being mean, I'm just continually seeing excuses being made for Planned Parenthood, and it isn't because of supporting PP, it's because of the fear that if they go away, who fills in the gap. So let them do what they want, as long as they continue to provide services right? Yes there are the videos but where is the third party proof that PP is indeed breaking the law? And because some parts if the organization may be breaking the law that doesn't mean the entire organization is involved. I mean look who made the videos. I think we can all agree they have a very specific agenda and it's not necessarily to present the facts if it goes against their what they are trying to achieve. And that alone should be enough reason that a third party in the medical field do an investigation to either confirm or disprove the information on the videos before a business is destroyed. Destroy a business that has provided needed medical care for women for years. i would also like to know when did "excuses" become wanting to know the truth? And when did "excuses" become questioning the motives of an activist group who are less in honest in their behavior? And when did "excuses" become wanting a third party to either confirm or disprove the information on the videos? I think what continues to amazes me is how quick people are to judge without knowing the truth.
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Post by jonda1974 on Sept 18, 2015 14:55:33 GMT
Lucy - I'm sorry, but there have been enough videos of their executives discussing these things, that the problem is systemic. I understand the need for low-cost services, but quite frankly Planned Parenthood can do it without government funding. Why do we fund them instead of others? I'm sure if we funded others with the money given to Planned Parenthood with the stipulation that they step into the neighborhoods currently served by Planned Parenthood the gap would be filled. They have in other videos discussed the details of performing partial birth abortions in order to preserve the brain intact. Its the only reason to turn the baby breach. Let's just be honest though. There really is nothing that they could do that you wouldn't try to defend. I'm not being mean, I'm just continually seeing excuses being made for Planned Parenthood, and it isn't because of supporting PP, it's because of the fear that if they go away, who fills in the gap. So let them do what they want, as long as they continue to provide services right? Yes there are the videos but where is the third party proof that PP is indeed breaking the law? And because some parts if the organization may be breaking the law that doesn't mean the entire organization is involved. I mean look who made the videos. I think we can all agree they have a very specific agenda and it's not necessarily to present the facts if it goes against their what they are trying to achieve. And that alone should be enough reason that a third party in the medical field do an investigation to either confirm or disprove the information on the videos before a business is destroyed. Destroy a business that has provided needed medical care for women for years. i would also like to know when did "excuses" become wanting to know the truth? And when did "excuses" become questioning the motives of an activist group who are less in honest in their behavior? And when did "excuses" become wanting a third party to either confirm or disprove the information on the videos? I think what continues to amazes me is how quick people are to judge without knowing the truth. Let's face it. In regards to Abortion services (and the percentage is a statistic that can be manipulated to make them look better on that front), PP has always been tip toeing the legal, moral and ethical gray area. I honestly would have a very difficult time respecting any of the top level execs as good people based on the cavalier way they discuss what is essentially legalized infanticide. It doesn't surprise me that the Executive level is as crass as they are considering that has always been the case since it's inception (Margaret Sanger was a horrible woman). No one is destroying them. They are being defunded by the government. Big difference. I honestly don't care if it is illegal, however it's obvious even to them by their statements they recognize a legal gray area, especially based on the last video. To me it doesn't matter the agenda. Give me the unedited transcripts, I'll make up my own mind. And from what I'm seeing they recognize a problem with what they are doing, and discussing ways to avoid "bad headlines" well nice try. I judge them heavily not for the women's health services they provide, but for the way they handle the babies after they've been killed.
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Post by Pahina722 on Sept 18, 2015 15:31:13 GMT
Yes there are the videos but where is the third party proof that PP is indeed breaking the law? And because some parts if the organization may be breaking the law that doesn't mean the entire organization is involved. I mean look who made the videos. I think we can all agree they have a very specific agenda and it's not necessarily to present the facts if it goes against their what they are trying to achieve. And that alone should be enough reason that a third party in the medical field do an investigation to either confirm or disprove the information on the videos before a business is destroyed. Destroy a business that has provided needed medical care for women for years. i would also like to know when did "excuses" become wanting to know the truth? And when did "excuses" become questioning the motives of an activist group who are less in honest in their behavior? And when did "excuses" become wanting a third party to either confirm or disprove the information on the videos? I think what continues to amazes me is how quick people are to judge without knowing the truth. Let's face it. In regards to Abortion services (and the percentage is a statistic that can be manipulated to make them look better on that front), PP has always been tip toeing the legal, moral and ethical gray area. I honestly would have a very difficult time respecting any of the top level execs as good people based on the cavalier way they discuss what is essentially legalized infanticide. It doesn't surprise me that the Executive level is as crass as they are considering that has always been the case since it's inception (Margaret Sanger was a horrible woman). No one is destroying them. They are being defunded by the government. Big difference. I honestly don't care if it is illegal, however it's obvious even to them by their statements they recognize a legal gray area, especially based on the last video. To me it doesn't matter the agenda. Give me the unedited transcripts, I'll make up my own mind. And from what I'm seeing they recognize a problem with what they are doing, and discussing ways to avoid "bad headlines" well nice try. I judge them heavily not for the women's health services they provide, but for the way they handle the babies after they've been killed. Jonda, I think you've just proved the bottom line assertion of the article which Krazy linked: the outrage over PP isn't over what they do with the body parts, but over abortion itself. And the discussions of revenue aren't about making a profit (revenue doesn't equal profit unless it exceeds expenses). They are concerned with covering the extra cost associated with identifying and processing the needed parts. And, though I'm sure this will end up getting me flamed, we must be realistic. What is being discussed is medical waste after the abortion. PP folks are trying to create a positive benefit by using that waste for research that could help millions of people. They aren't actively trying to recruit people to abort so that they can make money on the remains.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 15:49:37 GMT
Let's face it. In regards to Abortion services (and the percentage is a statistic that can be manipulated to make them look better on that front), PP has always been tip toeing the legal, moral and ethical gray area. I honestly would have a very difficult time respecting any of the top level execs as good people based on the cavalier way they discuss what is essentially legalized infanticide. It doesn't surprise me that the Executive level is as crass as they are considering that has always been the case since it's inception (Margaret Sanger was a horrible woman). No one is destroying them. They are being defunded by the government. Big difference. I honestly don't care if it is illegal, however it's obvious even to them by their statements they recognize a legal gray area, especially based on the last video. To me it doesn't matter the agenda. Give me the unedited transcripts, I'll make up my own mind. And from what I'm seeing they recognize a problem with what they are doing, and discussing ways to avoid "bad headlines" well nice try. I judge them heavily not for the women's health services they provide, but for the way they handle the babies after they've been killed. Jonda, I think you've just proved the bottom line assertion of the article which Krazy linked: the outrage over PP isn't over what they do with the body parts, but over abortion itself. And the discussions of revenue aren't about making a profit (revenue doesn't equal profit unless it exceeds expenses). They are concerned with covering the extra cost associated with identifying and processing the needed parts. And, though I'm sure this will end up getting me flamed, we must be realistic. What is being discussed is medical waste after the abortion. PP folks are trying to create a positive benefit by using that waste for research that could help millions of people. They aren't actively trying to recruit people to abort so that they can make money on the remains.
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Post by jonda1974 on Sept 18, 2015 15:53:14 GMT
Let's face it. In regards to Abortion services (and the percentage is a statistic that can be manipulated to make them look better on that front), PP has always been tip toeing the legal, moral and ethical gray area. I honestly would have a very difficult time respecting any of the top level execs as good people based on the cavalier way they discuss what is essentially legalized infanticide. It doesn't surprise me that the Executive level is as crass as they are considering that has always been the case since it's inception (Margaret Sanger was a horrible woman). No one is destroying them. They are being defunded by the government. Big difference. I honestly don't care if it is illegal, however it's obvious even to them by their statements they recognize a legal gray area, especially based on the last video. To me it doesn't matter the agenda. Give me the unedited transcripts, I'll make up my own mind. And from what I'm seeing they recognize a problem with what they are doing, and discussing ways to avoid "bad headlines" well nice try. I judge them heavily not for the women's health services they provide, but for the way they handle the babies after they've been killed. Jonda, I think you've just proved the bottom line assertion of the article which Krazy linked: the outrage over PP isn't over what they do with the body parts, but over abortion itself. And the discussions of revenue aren't about making a profit (revenue doesn't equal profit unless it exceeds expenses). They are concerned with covering the extra cost associated with identifying and processing the needed parts. And, though I'm sure this will end up getting me flamed, we must be realistic. What is being discussed is medical waste after the abortion. PP folks are trying to create a positive benefit by using that waste for research that could help millions of people. They aren't actively trying to recruit people to abort so that they can make money on the remains. Medical waste which used to be a living baby. Of which they intentionally performed partial birth abortions to be able to harvest it fully intact. In the latest video, it is obvious to me that remuneration is not simply for covering expenses. They just want to make sure it tip toes that line. I vehemently oppose abortion. But I'm not one who is going to fight for legislation to prevent it, simply because women are going to make those choices regardless, I'd rather they be medically safe than back alley. However, the government shouldn't be funding it. Planned Parenthood can still do the "wonderful" things they do, without the government funding. other agencies do. My real issue isn't even over the "profit", my real issue is the partial birth abortions they are performing. That is illegal. And if they are doing those, then they are committing other infractions as well. No need to shut them down, but no need to support them financially either.
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 23:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 20:41:31 GMT
The House voted today to block federal funding to Planned Parenthood for a year and curb some abortion practices, in the chamber's first legislative response to videos showing the abortion provider's tissue harvesting practices.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 23:25:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 4:58:03 GMT
Carly is a liar. linkFrom the link: "But the image she described isn’t in any of the videos released by the antiabortion group. Instead, one video from the group depicts a former employee of a tissue procurement company stating what she says she saw at a Planned Parenthood clinic. There was never any video that depicted, as Ms. Fiorina stated, a live fetus on a table being prepared for organ harvesting."Once delivered and breathing, it wouldn't be a fetus anymore. It would be a living, breathing baby. This supposed former PP employee is describing outright first-degree murder which apparently she decided not to tell anyone about until the anti-abortion-rights thugs interviewed her. Where are the police? Where is the homicide investigation? I don't believe crap out of this woman's mouth unless and until it is verified by a legitimate source. ETA and it is irresponsible, to say the least, for Carly Fiorina to repeat this crap as if she witnessed it with her own eyes. She accuses Hilary Clinton of lying but that is one very obvious whopper on her part. She didn't lie, that video exists. I just saw it. Wish I didn't.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 19, 2015 6:14:36 GMT
There are indications that an individual associated with Planned Parenthood may (MAY) be skirting the law. That is a far cry from "established beyond a reasonable doubt that [Planned Parenthood is] breaking the law." Your statement to the contrary is as disingenuous as Carly Fiorina's claim on national TV that the videos show a living delivered baby being prepped for brain tissue donation. Which, in case you are unaware, none of them do. And if you close down Planned Parenthood, it isn't nearly as simple as "others will step in" to provide the same services, minus abortion. Many PPs offer the only easily accessible women's health services in isolated or blighted areas, and I don't see bunches of other medical groups jumping up and down to provide free or low-cost services to low-income women. Once again Republicans may mean well, but the effects of their policies will hurt women in the end. Lucy - I'm sorry, but there have been enough videos of their executives discussing these things, that the problem is systemic. I understand the need for low-cost services, but quite frankly Planned Parenthood can do it without government funding. Why do we fund them instead of others? I'm sure if we funded others with the money given to Planned Parenthood with the stipulation that they step into the neighborhoods currently served by Planned Parenthood the gap would be filled. They have in other videos discussed the details of performing partial birth abortions in order to preserve the brain intact. Its the only reason to turn the baby breach. Let's just be honest though. There really is nothing that they could do that you wouldn't try to defend. I'm not being mean, I'm just continually seeing excuses being made for Planned Parenthood, and it isn't because of supporting PP, it's because of the fear that if they go away, who fills in the gap. So let them do what they want, as long as they continue to provide services right? You are right that I will continue to defend them until there is a neutral investigation and actual evidence the organization is breaking the law. Not any of these James O'Keefe-style videos. That isn't evidence, they are hit pieces carefully orchestrated to deliver the message they want to get across. I'm sorry the medical personnel seem callous discussing body parts, but that's the way these things go. I haven't watched all the videos yet and don't know anything about the partial-birth abortions you're talking about (another post, I think) but again, I want to see actual evidence. I would be very surprised if that's happening. I'm sure you realize I don't believe an aborted fetus is a murdered living child. If they are delivering living, breathing children and then killing them for body parts, that is murder and is very illegal. I do not believe that's happening and don't believe there is video evidence it's happening. I also want to re-emphasize that PP is not.making.a.profit. on fetal body parts. They are recovering expenses. They can't run a business on what they make. If someone ... a person, not the organization ... is taking kickbacks, that is on the individual, not the organization. I am 100% convinced the organization is not breaking laws in an effort to profit from selling body parts. If I'm proven (proven, not just what turns up on hidden-camera videos) wrong, I will admit it. But I don't think that's going to happen. I tried to respond to several different posts here. Sorry if I missed anything important. I'm out of town for the weekend and kinda half-asleep. Will try to check back tomorrow.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 19, 2015 6:22:48 GMT
Once delivered and breathing, it wouldn't be a fetus anymore. It would be a living, breathing baby. This supposed former PP employee is describing outright first-degree murder which apparently she decided not to tell anyone about until the anti-abortion-rights thugs interviewed her. Where are the police? Where is the homicide investigation? I don't believe crap out of this woman's mouth unless and until it is verified by a legitimate source. ETA and it is irresponsible, to say the least, for Carly Fiorina to repeat this crap as if she witnessed it with her own eyes. She accuses Hilary Clinton of lying but that is one very obvious whopper on her part. She didn't lie, that video exists. I just saw it. Wish I didn't. I have not watched every Planned Parenthood video in full. But I've read analysis by those who have, and I believe them when they say no such video exists. If it does exist, it is not one of the Planned Parenthood videos that have been released. Maybe you can link the video you watched here so we can figure out what's going on. If the video you describe exists (the one in which a living child is delivered and then murdered for body parts), AND if it is legitimate which of course must be determined by law enforcement professionals, then this is a very serious crime, not a simple defunding matter. Once again, I question the existence of a video proving Planned Parenthood complicity in delivering and then murdering babies, a very different thing from performing legal abortions.
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ctencza
Shy Member
Posts: 39
Jun 27, 2014 0:43:36 GMT
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Post by ctencza on Sept 19, 2015 7:31:03 GMT
All the planned parent videos have been shown to be fabricated lies.
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