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Post by librarylady on Mar 24, 2016 2:24:32 GMT
I would like to say that this mother is way over the line, IF she really paid the money. This may be all just a way to force you to send your daughter to the camp....and hopefully convert your child to her belief. Stand firm and don't let her bully you into something you don't really want to do.
If she did pay and now is out the money, let that be the lesson she learns. She is an idiot if she paid the money without talking to the parents of her "guest camper."
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Post by lancermom on Mar 24, 2016 2:25:03 GMT
I always talk to mom or dad before I do anything. Sleep over, mall trips, everything is run by parents. Only one exception, DD BFF is like another daughter. She has stayed with us while mom and dad had to be out of town. I know my boundaries with her mom. But otherwise, nope I would not sign up. I would have called first and for sure not email.
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caro
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Post by caro on Mar 24, 2016 2:25:04 GMT
Even this Christian sees this act as proselytizing on this mother's part. I would not pay for another child to go to camp unless that mom and I were very clear on details and she had my verbal ok!
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Post by scrapmaven on Mar 24, 2016 2:33:21 GMT
What on earth? No. I wouldn't sign up a kid for camp. I would all the mom and present it as an option and offer to get the info for her, but I would never presume to sign someone's child up for my child's camp. You owe her nothing here and she did something really weird.
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Post by cmpeter on Mar 24, 2016 2:34:02 GMT
That is just bizarre. No way would I sign up another person's child without first talking to the parent.
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Post by jenjie on Mar 24, 2016 2:34:28 GMT
The other mom way over-stepped. She should have never paid any money without talking with you first. This
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kate
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Mar 24, 2016 2:41:27 GMT
Mom is way out of line. No, I would not sign some other kid up for anything, let alone sleep-away camp! No, I would not appreciate someone else's signing my kid up for anything without asking me.
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Post by flanz on Mar 24, 2016 3:27:18 GMT
it feels like a very aggressive sort of proselytizing/conversion attempt to me. This! I would not pay and I wouldn't want dd to go to church with them either!
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Post by flanz on Mar 24, 2016 3:30:20 GMT
*shrug* maybe it is overreacting, I don't know. It was something in the tone of the email that felt like, "We will do absolutely anything to make sure your unchurched daughter can attend our Christian camp!" This also stems from things DD has said when she comes home from the church services - they've been asking her already if she's accepted Jesus as her lord and savior, and offered to baptize her "when she is ready." She's been there twice. Plus she was already baptized, TYVM, and just because her mother's become a heathen since then doesn't mean she needs a do-over. Trust your gut on this one, mom. I suspect she is trying to get your daughter converted in a backhanded way, thinking she is "saving" her!
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Post by flanz on Mar 24, 2016 3:31:52 GMT
I think your response was perfect. I would not pay it, and honestly I was wondering reading your post if protheletizing was the mothers intent, so I don't think you're overreacting. same here!
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Post by flanz on Mar 24, 2016 3:37:40 GMT
Sorry I wasn't clear - mom "signed her up" in the sense that she put her name on the list and paid the deposit to hold her spot. All the paperwork she sent me was all the stuff a parent has to do - permission, medical stuff, etc. I followed the link she sent (and frankly, the fact that she sent one means that she knows I don't know jack about this camp) and the activities include, among other things, "small group time spent exploring our faith and the power of prayer." Which is great if your child already belongs to said faith, but it's going to be really uncomfortable for a young teen who identifies as atheist IMO. Plus - outdoor activity camp in south Texas in July. This is a child who has to be moved out the door with a cattle prod to walk the dog around the block if it's more than 80 degrees. Even if there wasn't a hint of religion about it, I know my daughter, and she would hate every minute of this camp. Well that is only a wee bit better than what I've been thinking she did, but still WRONG!!! I would run in the other direction and keep your dd out of their clutches as much as possible. Of course, dd has a mind of her own and I presume has been taught her beliefs by you. If she was my dd and ever expressed interest in said camp/faith I would prob. let her go to experience it, after doing research and making sure I was comfortable, but my kid would have attended services there regularly and I would be really comfortable with all of the camp staff and the curriculum before agreeing to it. My first instinct is still RUN in the opposite direction.
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Post by 3jaysanc on Mar 24, 2016 4:23:16 GMT
I think your response was perfect. I would not pay it, and honestly I was wondering reading your post if protheletizing was the mothers intent, so I don't think you're overreacting. This.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Mar 24, 2016 4:37:47 GMT
I would never pay for someone else's child to be registered for something that I hadn't personally spoken to and had an arrangement with the parents for. Also, how can someone who is not a parent or legal guardian register a child for anything? I wouldn't feel obligated to pay for something that I didn't agree with in the first place. That's what I was thinking too!
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Post by Delta Dawn on Mar 24, 2016 4:51:32 GMT
Sorry I wasn't clear - mom "signed her up" in the sense that she put her name on the list and paid the deposit to hold her spot. All the paperwork she sent me was all the stuff a parent has to do - permission, medical stuff, etc. The bolded section says it all. She signed your DD up. She didn't fill out her childhood illnesses form, but she signed your daughter up by committing with her money. That said, if one of my son's friends' mothers did that and MY son had said he would go I would pay as I would have done anything to get my son to go to summer camp. If it were a faith that we did care for, I would not be sending him. I was coerced into attending a weekend "Bible camp" and was about to shoot the next person who tried to convert me to that form of Christianity or cult. (That was part of the reason I left Christianity).
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Post by hennybutton on Mar 24, 2016 5:12:23 GMT
Even this Christian sees this act as proselytizing on this mother's part. I would not pay for another child to go to camp unless that mom and I were very clear on details and she had my verbal ok! This Christian sees it the same way.
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Mar 24, 2016 5:28:18 GMT
There is some borderline bullying happening here- by the parent against you, OP, and the camp hasn't even started yet. BTDT hence the strong language and I apologize in advance if any peas take issue with the b-word. Run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 5:43:19 GMT
I guess I don't get the whole "mom has a secret agenda" thing. It's church,the agenda isn't a secret. Of course they asked if she was saved and of course they want her baptized.
I agree with everyone else in saying that the mom was out of line taking the step to commit your daughter to going to the camp without talking to you, the parent. But by your own admission your daughter is a pleaser and you said that there was possibility that she made your maybe seem like more than it was. Still doesn't make the mom right, but maybe she was excited to send her as a friend for her own daughter as someone else in the thread mentioned.
I'm assuming from your posts that you haven't spoken much with this mom, so she may not know how you feel about religion. All she can go by is your actions. You gave permission for her to attend a Christian chruch, so in her mind that must mean that you are okay with her hearing Christian theology and taking part in the religion.
I suppose if you don't want her exposed to those types situations you shouldn't send her to the place where it's guaranteed to happen. You may see it as a cultural experience, but the people in the church don't. I get that many here hate, don't like, or have had bad experiences with Christianity and Christians, but I don't understand how someone could go into a Christian environment and then get upset that Christians are doing what the Bible tells them to do.
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jenkate77
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Jun 26, 2014 1:33:16 GMT
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Post by jenkate77 on Mar 24, 2016 6:32:00 GMT
Only one friend - my son and her son have been BFFs for 10 years, since Kindergarten. And the conversation would go something like this - "you owe me $200, I paid the deposit for camp."
Actually, who am I kidding. In the last two years since our surprise child appeared I'm totally disorganized. She'd be the one calling me and telling me that she'd paid the deposits!
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Post by miominmio on Mar 24, 2016 6:49:07 GMT
*shrug* maybe it is overreacting, I don't know. It was something in the tone of the email that felt like, "We will do absolutely anything to make sure your unchurched daughter can attend our Christian camp!" This also stems from things DD has said when she comes home from the church services - they've been asking her already if she's accepted Jesus as her lord and savior, and offered to baptize her "when she is ready." She's been there twice. Plus she was already baptized, TYVM, and just because her mother's become a heathen since then doesn't mean she needs a do-over. Well, from what I have read (both on this board and elsewhere), being an atheist in your country is about as accepted as following the old faith in mine. We have relatives who absolutely could do something like this to "save" our kids. And no, there is no way in Nivlheim I would pay her the money back. None!
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Mar 24, 2016 6:58:49 GMT
yes, they are trying to save more souls. Personally, I would be very offended but still I would talk to my daughter about this.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Mar 24, 2016 7:12:27 GMT
*shrug* maybe it is overreacting, I don't know. It was something in the tone of the email that felt like, "We will do absolutely anything to make sure your unchurched daughter can attend our Christian camp!" This also stems from things DD has said when she comes home from the church services - they've been asking her already if she's accepted Jesus as her lord and savior, and offered to baptize her "when she is ready." She's been there twice. Plus she was already baptized, TYVM, and just because her mother's become a heathen since then doesn't mean she needs a do-over. This was my first reaction when I read the OP. Sounds like they are trying to force a religion on your daughter. You owe them nothing. OK, so your child is a pleaser, and may have accidentally given the impression that she may be going, but the mother should have called you to disguss the matter. Whether or not she can get a refund is totally her problem, not yours.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Mar 24, 2016 7:29:09 GMT
I wouldn't have thought it was appropriate, no.
I grew up listening to horror stories of other parents when my sister would have other people's kids overnight. In one instance that stands out, a mom harassed my sister over reimbursement for a shirt that the child had ruined at my sister's house getting into things she shouldn't have been in. My sister paid them what was insisted upon. I would have never in my wildest dreams asked for reimbursement over something like that because kids ruin things...it's not the other parent's fault. And in my sister's shoes, I would have brushed off the person and take the risk of backlash (in her circle, trash talking to other parents) because it's just rude to place blame on your child's misbehavior on another parent. If it was so important than don't send your child off to a sleepover with something you fear would get ruined or lost.
I would have responded similarly as you did but I would have done so under the expectation that the other parent was going to go to great lengths to make me feel guilty and as if I was the one at fault by not following through versus them for making assumptions. It's the same principle of taking a child's word for it that they will attend a birthday party and being surprised when they don't show up (parents RSVPing and then not bothering to have their child attend is a whole different story, though). If you plan something with someone else's child, you make arrangements with the parent, not with the child. It's a pretty simple concept.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Mar 24, 2016 7:34:12 GMT
I would like to say that this mother is way over the line, IF she really paid the money. This may be all just a way to force you to send your daughter to the camp....and hopefully convert your child to her belief. Stand firm and don't let her bully you into something you don't really want to do. If she did pay and now is out the money, let that be the lesson she learns. She is an idiot if she paid the money without talking to the parents of her "guest camper." Are people really that sneaky about conversion? We've made the decision to not expose our children to church or religion in general until they are old enough to understand what faith and belief are. I'm a nonbeliever and still fight the things that were instilled in me as a child because it was such a huge part of my upbringing for a while and feel that it's brainwashing to tell your child (who trusts you to guide them) that something like belief in a higher power is fact versus what it is: a belief with no evidence to support it. It's fine to believe, but I feel it should be a conscious choice by someone of an appropriate age to decide that for themselves. Therefore, I distance myself from religion in general and truthfully am unaware if this is a thing or not. Conversely to the mom being very conniving, I would also like to suggest that maybe she's not very bright. I know some very unintelligent people who've procreated...just sayin'.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Mar 24, 2016 7:40:25 GMT
*shrug* maybe it is overreacting, I don't know. It was something in the tone of the email that felt like, "We will do absolutely anything to make sure your unchurched daughter can attend our Christian camp!" This also stems from things DD has said when she comes home from the church services - they've been asking her already if she's accepted Jesus as her lord and savior, and offered to baptize her "when she is ready." She's been there twice. Plus she was already baptized, TYVM, and just because her mother's become a heathen since then doesn't mean she needs a do-over. This would seriously piss me off to the point where I would no longer allow my child involvement with that other child without me present (if that) and certainly no interaction with the parents unless they wanted to have it out with me about what is appropriate to discuss with my child and what's not. It is no one else's place to attempt to instill what I do not believe into my children or the children of others. Just as much as I wouldn't tell their child that I don't think there is a "god" and what I REALLY think of religion, I wouldn't stand for a moment of anyone else trying to push their belief system onto MY child. This just disgusts me. If someone needs saving, great, go find an adult who can distinguish fact from fiction on an adult scale and if they want to believe, that's fantastic for the both of you, but stay away from other people's kids. Okay, sorry, soap box moment...
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Post by miominmio on Mar 24, 2016 8:19:04 GMT
I would like to say that this mother is way over the line, IF she really paid the money. This may be all just a way to force you to send your daughter to the camp....and hopefully convert your child to her belief. Stand firm and don't let her bully you into something you don't really want to do. If she did pay and now is out the money, let that be the lesson she learns. She is an idiot if she paid the money without talking to the parents of her "guest camper." Are people really that sneaky about conversion? Yes! When the kids were at sleepovers at my inlaws, there were prayers, songs and bible verses. And it's not like they went to church every Sunday either (or even once a year).I don't think they would have done this if we were agnostics or atheists, but they were never able to accept that we belong to another religion. And other relatives, who admittedly more religious than MIL and FIL, were definitely sneaky. If we hadn't lived in one of the most secular countries in the world, or if our relatives had been more religious, it wouldn't have come as a surprise, but I guess the whole "freedom of and from religion" thing only applies to those who belong to the monotheistic religions.
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Mar 24, 2016 8:35:10 GMT
Are people really that sneaky about conversion? Yes! When the kids were at sleepovers at my inlaws, there were prayers, songs and bible verses. And it's not like they went to church every Sunday either (or even once a year).I don't think they would have done this if we were agnostics or atheists, but they were never able to accept that we belong to another religion. And other relatives, who admittedly more religious than MIL and FIL, were definitely sneaky. If we hadn't lived in one of the most secular countries in the world, or if our relatives had been more religious, it wouldn't have come as a surprise, but I guess the whole "freedom of and from religion" thing only applies to those who belong to the monotheistic religions. Wow. I don't know if that is a wow from shocked disbelief or me being surprised by my shocked disbelief. It really shouldn't be surprising. I went to dinner with a friend and her husband a couple of years ago. I had done really well in losing my baby weight and was fitting into a shirt that I loved but hadn't been able to fit for a while. I wore teal eyeshadow (fun makeup I never wear) to match the shirt because I just felt that good about myself. I went home to see his facebook full of things about the only women in the bible who wore makeup were prostitutes...posted conveniently just after our dinner (this same guy told me how tired I looked the one time he saw me without makeup). So, apparently, I'm a whore because I was confident in my appearance based on a major achievement that I had accomplished that day and wanted to stand out just a bit...all because I didn't fit his square hole. They're pentacostal and women don't wear pants, makeup etc and NEVER cut their hair because it's their 'glory' or 'covering' or some such nonsense and feel it's okay to judge everyone (in spite of the good book saying that their 'god' is the only one allowed to do that, but whatever) based on the simplest iota of information that doesn't align with theirs. After his latest rants, he's been blocked on FB and I do my very best to say as little as possible to him when I have to endure his presence. I'm not saying that he's a prime example of religious people, but it's his extremist views that push me further and further from religion in general. All that to say, it shouldn't shock me that people push religion onto others, especially the young and innocent who don't know how to process that kind of information the same as an adult.
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Post by miominmio on Mar 24, 2016 9:12:27 GMT
Yes! When the kids were at sleepovers at my inlaws, there were prayers, songs and bible verses. And it's not like they went to church every Sunday either (or even once a year).I don't think they would have done this if we were agnostics or atheists, but they were never able to accept that we belong to another religion. And other relatives, who admittedly more religious than MIL and FIL, were definitely sneaky. If we hadn't lived in one of the most secular countries in the world, or if our relatives had been more religious, it wouldn't have come as a surprise, but I guess the whole "freedom of and from religion" thing only applies to those who belong to the monotheistic religions. Wow. I don't know if that is a wow from shocked disbelief or me being surprised by my shocked disbelief. It really shouldn't be surprising. I went to dinner with a friend and her husband a couple of years ago. I had done really well in losing my baby weight and was fitting into a shirt that I loved but hadn't been able to fit for a while. I wore teal eyeshadow (fun makeup I never wear) to match the shirt because I just felt that good about myself. I went home to see his facebook full of things about the only women in the bible who wore makeup were prostitutes...posted conveniently just after our dinner (this same guy told me how tired I looked the one time he saw me without makeup). So, apparently, I'm a whore because I was confident in my appearance based on a major achievement that I had accomplished that day and wanted to stand out just a bit...all because I didn't fit his square hole. They're pentacostal and women don't wear pants, makeup etc and NEVER cut their hair because it's their 'glory' or 'covering' or some such nonsense and feel it's okay to judge everyone (in spite of the good book saying that their 'god' is the only one allowed to do that, but whatever) based on the simplest iota of information that doesn't align with theirs. After his latest rants, he's been blocked on FB and I do my very best to say as little as possible to him when I have to endure his presence. I'm not saying that he's a prime example of religious people, but it's his extremist views that push me further and further from religion in general. All that to say, it shouldn't shock me that people push religion onto others, especially the young and innocent who don't know how to process that kind of information the same as an adult. I'm so sorry that he did that to you ((hugs)). Some religious people are so nasty if you don't fit their mold.
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Post by Merge on Mar 24, 2016 10:43:37 GMT
I guess I don't get the whole "mom has a secret agenda" thing. It's church,the agenda isn't a secret. Of course they asked if she was saved and of course they want her baptized. I agree with everyone else in saying that the mom was out of line taking the step to commit your daughter to going to the camp without talking to you, the parent. But by your own admission your daughter is a pleaser and you said that there was possibility that she made your maybe seem like more than it was. Still doesn't make the mom right, but maybe she was excited to send her as a friend for her own daughter as someone else in the thread mentioned. I'm assuming from your posts that you haven't spoken much with this mom, so she may not know how you feel about religion. All she can go by is your actions. You gave permission for her to attend a Christian chruch, so in her mind that must mean that you are okay with her hearing Christian theology and taking part in the religion. I suppose if you don't want her exposed to those types situations you shouldn't send her to the place where it's guaranteed to happen. You may see it as a cultural experience, but the people in the church don't. I get that many here hate, don't like, or have had bad experiences with Christianity and Christians, but I don't understand how someone could go into a Christian environment and then get upset that Christians are doing what the Bible tells them to do. My experience with Christianity is apparently different than yours - the churches I've attended are welcoming to newcomers and invite anyone to attend, and they usually follow up with the adults of the household to see if they want to join the church or learn more. No church in my 34 years of regular church attendance would have been so pushy with a minor child without her parents' permission. And no, allowing a child to attend, observe and learn is not tacit permission to have the child be baptized or join the church, or to be signed up for summer camp. That is crazy talk. No reasonable person would think that was "guaranteed to happen." I've had the night to sleep on this now and I'm even madder about it that I was last night. Young teens do not have the capacity, in my opinion, to make reasoned decisions when an adult, someone they've been taught is a guide and role model, is coming at them from a place of "you must believe this." I never read anything in the Bible that tells Christians to try to recruit minors without their parents' permission, but since that is apparently on the agenda for some, I won't be allowing my children to attend any more churches or religious activities until they are adults.
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Post by Merge on Mar 24, 2016 10:51:32 GMT
I would like to say that this mother is way over the line, IF she really paid the money. This may be all just a way to force you to send your daughter to the camp....and hopefully convert your child to her belief. Stand firm and don't let her bully you into something you don't really want to do. If she did pay and now is out the money, let that be the lesson she learns. She is an idiot if she paid the money without talking to the parents of her "guest camper." Are people really that sneaky about conversion? We've made the decision to not expose our children to church or religion in general until they are old enough to understand what faith and belief are. I'm a nonbeliever and still fight the things that were instilled in me as a child because it was such a huge part of my upbringing for a while and feel that it's brainwashing to tell your child (who trusts you to guide them) that something like belief in a higher power is fact versus what it is: a belief with no evidence to support it. It's fine to believe, but I feel it should be a conscious choice by someone of an appropriate age to decide that for themselves. Therefore, I distance myself from religion in general and truthfully am unaware if this is a thing or not. Conversely to the mom being very conniving, I would also like to suggest that maybe she's not very bright. I know some very unintelligent people who've procreated...just sayin'. I would never have thought people were that sneaky about conversion. This is my first experience with anything like this. I know what you mean about having to fight the things that were instilled in you as a child. I have not made any attempts, personally, to convince my kids there is no god or to bring them to my way of thinking. They know what I believe; they know what DH believes (he is Christian, but very low-key) and they've been told that adulthood is when they'll be ready to decide what they believe. At this time, they both identify as atheists, but that is not because there's been any convincing on my part. It may very well be that one or both of them becomes Christian (or some other religion) as an adult, and that is totally fine with me. My goal as a parent is for that decision to come from a place of reason and learning - hence our allowing them to experience some church activities now - and not from a place of emotional coercion. The mom has always been very nice to me. She's a CPA with her own firm, so I don't think she's stupid. This whole thing came totally out of left field, to be honest.
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Post by pierkiss on Mar 24, 2016 11:06:48 GMT
No. Just no
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