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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 19, 2016 15:24:24 GMT
I know the controversy over Melania's speech and the other thread, but I'm curious how you guys would rewrite these same concepts without plagiarizing. They are such common phrases used when describing these common concepts. I haven't had a lot of coffee yet today, but in looking things over I'm sort of hard pressed to think of different ways to express the same things. Over the years, I've seen many people here express these same concepts about their upbringing when describing themselves. No, I'm not trying to excuse anything, just wondering how many ways there are to say this.
P.S. I may not be able to make it back today, so sorry for the post and run. Will be interested in your versions of the same concepts.
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Post by annabella on Jul 19, 2016 15:27:10 GMT
I think it's so easy to say that these are common things, but the fact of the matter is they had to review last convention wife speeches to get an idea of what to write for her. They are using the exact same words. If I was Melania, I would have wrote about her immigrant experience and how great America is a country for her and the difference her childhood was from her son. I would talk about the philanthropy I've seen Donald doing and misconceptions about his personality. Positive interactions he's had with immigrants she knows. Not vague nonsense about the things my parents instilled in her.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 19, 2016 15:30:54 GMT
I know the controversy over Melania's speech and the other thread, but I'm curious how you guys would rewrite these same concepts without plagiarizing. They are such common phrases used when describing these common concepts. I haven't had a lot of coffee yet today, but in looking things over I'm sort of hard pressed to think of different ways to express the same things. Over the years, I've seen many people here express these same concepts about their upbringing when describing themselves. No, I'm not trying to excuse anything, just wondering how many ways there are to say this.
P.S. I may not be able to make it back today, so sorry for the post and run. Will be interested in your versions of the same concepts.
That's sort of the point. She should have taken a different approach. Because now, the cries of plagerism are everywhere. If this speech had been vetted, the obvious similarities would have been caught and changed. No one vetted her speech. |
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 19, 2016 15:33:28 GMT
So no public figure can talk about the way they were raised ever again without cries of "plagiarism?"
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Post by femalebusiness on Jul 19, 2016 15:34:33 GMT
I know the controversy over Melania's speech and the other thread, but I'm curious how you guys would rewrite these same concepts without plagiarizing. They are such common phrases used when describing these common concepts. I haven't had a lot of coffee yet today, but in looking things over I'm sort of hard pressed to think of different ways to express the same things. Over the years, I've seen many people here express these same concepts about their upbringing when describing themselves. No, I'm not trying to excuse anything, just wondering how many ways there are to say this.
P.S. I may not be able to make it back today, so sorry for the post and run. Will be interested in your versions of the same concepts.
Oh what a great idea! Let's all rewrite Michelle's speech the way it should have been stolen and then those liars can claim this is the real speech. Are you kidding me? What the hell is the purpose of this thread? |
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Post by monklady123 on Jul 19, 2016 15:37:15 GMT
Yes some of them are common phrases. But something like "your word is your bond" isn't really. I think I would have just said something like "you keep your word in all that your promise to do" or something like that. "Your word is your bond" is kind of a distinctive phrase. And, it's not only the "common phrases" but it's linking them in the same order as Michelle Obama did. And I agree with Annabella that given her background as an immigrant who is now an American citizen she had tons of other things she could have said. and eta: No, I'm not going to bother trying to rewrite it. That's the job of Trump's speech writers, who clearly failed in this case.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 15:37:46 GMT
Are you kidding me? What the hell is the purpose of this thread? I wondered the same thing. If you can't look at those two speeches and not see how it's more than using 'common phrases' then I'm not really sure you can read. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 15:44:16 GMT
So no public figure can talk about the way they were raised ever again without cries of "plagiarism?" Um, no, that's not at all what anyone is saying. Are they common themes and words? Sure. But the *exact* same phrasing in many cases? In the exact same order? Come on. It's not an accident and it shouldn't be excused. And it's especially gross that the plagiarized parts were about character and working hard. Uh huh. |
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katybee
Drama Llama
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Post by katybee on Jul 19, 2016 15:47:56 GMT
Off the top of my head-- on my iPad-- as a kindergarten teacher and not a professional speech writer? Easy:
I am so blessed to have been raised by parents who understood that things do not come easy in life. You have to work hard to accomplish your goals. You keep your promises. You treat people the way that you want to be treated. And this is how we are raising our son. We want him, and all children, to believe that they can do anything they set their minds to....
Of course, IMHO, that's still a form of plagiarism. You change the words all you want, but it's still the same. There are so many things she could have talked about. How about what it was like to be an immigrant, what it was like to grow up in a communist country and what freedom means to her now... The possibilities are TRULY endless.
And why are we not talking about how Donal Trrumo does not share ANY of these values:
I'm not sure he's worked very hard in his life (despite the claim that he *only* started out with a measly $1,000,000 loan from his dad. He seems to have taken the easy way out at every opportunity.
He doesn't keep his word or his promises...how about promising to make a donation to veterans and then not doing it until the press pointed out that he hadn't. How about not paying his bills. How about the whole Trunp university thing?
He doesn't treat people with respect. He is petty and calls people names like a high school bully.
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Post by quinmm14 on Jul 19, 2016 15:48:24 GMT
I think the OP was asking how difficult it would be to talk about a similar subject without using common phrases. I didn't read it as she agreed plagiarism is okay. Just my opinion.  |
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Jul 19, 2016 15:52:20 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase??
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Post by mom on Jul 19, 2016 15:53:58 GMT
I think the OP was asking how difficult it would be to talk about a similar subject without using common phrases. I didn't read it as she agreed plagiarism is okay. Just my opinion. Thats the way I read it as well. |
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Post by Kymberlee on Jul 19, 2016 15:53:59 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase?? I think that is a very common phrase. |
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Jul 19, 2016 15:54:25 GMT
I think the OP was asking how difficult it would be to talk about a similar subject without using common phrases. I didn't read it as she agreed plagiarism is okay. Just my opinion. But it IS easy. I would imagine that any college student writing a paper the morning it's due could probably figure out how to change enough words to make it past those programs professors use to detect plagarism... |
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 19, 2016 15:54:45 GMT
So no public figure can talk about the way they were raised ever again without cries of "plagiarism?" Um, no, that's not at all what anyone is saying. Are they common themes and words? Sure. But the *exact* same phrasing in many cases? In the exact same order? Come on. It's not an accident and it shouldn't be excused. And it's especially gross that the plagiarized parts were about character and working hard. Uh huh. I agree, it isn't the common phraseology that is the problem; it is the way the common phrases were strung together to create identical sentences, in identical order. That is where the cry of plagiarism comes from. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 19, 2016 15:55:59 GMT
So no public figure can talk about the way they were raised ever again without cries of "plagiarism?" Sure they can. But they hopefully would realize that if they use a common theme like that, that the speech should be vetted. As for how to make it sound different, well, that's why professional speech writers are worth their weight in gold. But it is just impossible to believe that, even using such a common theme, that there could be that many phrases in the same order in the 2 speeches. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 15:58:23 GMT
Also, rewriting someone else's speech isn't the point, because that's still essentially stealing.
This is supposed to be a wife talking about her background and her husband. Because we are different people, our minds work differently, our backgrounds and educations are different, and we all have things that make our lives and ourselves unique, it would be hard to come up with something so closely mimicking another person's work, without directly referring to it while writing one's own speech.
I sure as hell hope we could all come up with some things to say that aren't retreads of someone else's experiences. If you started from scratch, it should be easy to come up with stories to share, lessons learned, etc. that would be phrased and ordered entirely differently. All of us have different specific experiences, even surrounding common values.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 15:59:56 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase?? Actually, I would say it is fairly common. Michelle Obama is not the first time I've heard it, or the last, but I don't think that gives any credence to Trump's claim that it's all just coincidental. |
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Post by Prenticekid on Jul 19, 2016 16:00:55 GMT
That is kind of a silly premise. She (or the team that the campaign is now referring to) should not have been re-writing anything. If I were writing such a speech, I would use my own words. If I did quote someone else, I would give them credit. If I decided to include that sort of quote as a prospective First Lady, I would used a Republican First Lady's speech so that I could give credit where it was due.
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Post by gar on Jul 19, 2016 16:02:12 GMT
But why did she stick to the same themes in the same order? She could have talked about a host of things couldn't she?
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 19, 2016 16:02:20 GMT
Lets be honest. There is nothing that Trump or his family do that will not be fodder for those who oppose him to harp on. No matter how trivial, it will be "OMG" from people. Nor will they stop giving Hillary a pass for her actions.
Shrug. Honestly, at this point, I doubt there are more than a handful of people who have not decided on who they will be voting for and all of the claims of "how appalling" are more for the benefit of the people saying it than it is for anything else.
For me, and everyone I know IRL, whatever the candidates or their proponents say at this point will have no impact at all on who we vote for.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 19, 2016 16:04:16 GMT
Here is a link so you can understand how plagiarism is definedI don't think being obtuse about this topic is a good approach. You can say you don't think it matters, or that she isn't really relevant, or whatever lame excuse you want to use to give her a pass. But flat out trying to redefine plagiarism is silly. It's not a difficult concept. My rising 7th grader watched the comparison this morning on CBS and was like "She stole the whole thing?". It's blatantly stolen. This is a silly idea you posted. It makes you look ridiculous. There is nothing to defend here.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 19, 2016 16:06:39 GMT
plagiarism isn't just about copying things word-for-word. It also includes taking ideas and passing them off on your own. Sure, some people have the same ideas as others, and yeah, it is hard to be original when you're talking about yourself and common beliefs. But when you write a speech, it needs to be your own, completely. Or the speech writer's, lol.
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Post by gar on Jul 19, 2016 16:07:03 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase?? I think that is a very common phrase. I agree. |
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Post by tmarschall on Jul 19, 2016 16:07:34 GMT
As a professor, this is an issue of utmost importance to me. The point is you don't rewrite something someone already wrote. Even if you use different words, the ideas are someone else's. Paraphrasing isn't enough to avoid plagiarism. The one single way to avoid "cries of 'plagiarism'"? Give credit. Whether it's to Michelle Obama or to a speechwriter, they weren't her ideas to present as her own.
If you can't talk about something without using someone else's words or ideas, you either need to talk about something else, or give credit. Period.
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 19, 2016 16:07:37 GMT
Hmmm, compared to Hillary's crimes which put the entire country at risk and for which she got a pass from the Obama administration, I'm not all that concerned about Milania's "stealing" words like "your word is your bond".
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Jul 19, 2016 16:07:59 GMT
Lets be honest. There is nothing that Trump or his family do that will not be fodder for those who oppose him to harp on. No matter how trivial, it will be "OMG" from people. Shrug. Honestly, at this point, I doubt there are more than a handful of people who have not decided on who they will be voting for and all of the claims of "how appalling" are more for the benefit of the people saying it than it is for anything else. Lets be honest. There is nothing that Clinton or her family do that will not be fodder for those who oppose her to harp on. No matter how trivial, it will be "OMG" from people. It's insanity on both sides. It's the same in every single election. But unless you are going to be dismissive of the same for Hillary, then your post is pretty disingenuous. I think there are a lot more people this go round than usual who actually have not decided on who to vote for. I'm one of them. Right now, I'm not interested in voting for either of them. I almost never decide until around October. And I have voted both directions in national elections as well as third party. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 16:08:42 GMT
Hmmm, compared to Hillary's crimes which put the entire country at risk and for which she got a pass from the Obama administration, I'm not all that concerned about Milania's "stealing" words like "your word is your bond". Predictable Retorts for $100, Alex |
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 19, 2016 16:09:23 GMT
Lets be honest. There is nothing that Trump or his family do that will not be fodder for those who oppose him to harp on. No matter how trivial, it will be "OMG" from people. Shrug. Honestly, at this point, I doubt there are more than a handful of people who have not decided on who they will be voting for and all of the claims of "how appalling" are more for the benefit of the people saying it than it is for anything else. Lets be honest. There is nothing that Clinton or her family do that will not be fodder for those who oppose her to harp on. No matter how trivial, it will be "OMG" from people. It's insanity on both sides. It's the same in every single election. But unless you are going to be dismissive of the same for Hillary, then your post is pretty disingenious. I think there are a lot more people this go round than usual who actually have not decided on who to vote for. I'm one of them. Right now, I'm not interested in voting for either of them. I almost never decide until around October. And I have voted both directions in national elections as well as third party. I agree with you that both sides do it. But I disagree that there are a lot of people who don't know who they are voting for. |
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 19, 2016 16:09:58 GMT
Hmmm, compared to Hillary's crimes which put the entire country at risk and for which she got a pass from the Obama administration, I'm not all that concerned about Milania's "stealing" words like "your word is your bond". Predictable Retorts for $100, Alex I think the entire thread is full of predictable retorts and comments; including yours. |
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My original pea date was November 1999 and my number was 1803
